How to begin?

I'm 241 miles from the closest CFI-Gyro (according to the PRA). I'm interested in a Sport Pilot Rotorcraft rating (currently I have none whatsoever). I have no desire (currently) to fly a plane or helicopter...

Anyone have any suggestions on where/how I should proceed?

Jeff,

Welcome - I am also new to gyro flying - You have already made the first crucial step and that is to identify your closest instructor - I have to travel 7 hours to my instructor but its well worth the trip. This forum will also help you along the way - great bunch of people and sound advice. May I suggest that you make contact with the instructor and have a chat and arrange a dual flight (if you haven't already done so).

Cheers

Frankiej

Jeff,

Consider taking a community college or flight school course over the winter, one which is designed to prepare you for the full private rating. Most are two nights a week for ten weeks, or similar. Even though it will be oriented toward fixed-wing, and the instructors will make some generalizations you'll know are not true for rotorcraft, it will be $350 well spent.

Most of the course, including airspace, weather, airport operations, powerplants, human factors, are the same, whether you're flying a Gyrobee, a Cessna, or the Goodyear blimp. And, at your stage, it will help feel like you're moving forward toward your goal and maintain your motivation during an otherwise frustrating few months.

There's a few gyros up in the New Hampshire/Vermont area. Doug Riley is up that way. I think he's an instructor.

Last week I emailed John Christopher, the President of www.yankeerotors.net (PRA#39) - no response yet...

Try contacting Doug Riley. Look up his name in the forum members list and send him a personal message.

I did a little searching and found out that Doug Riley is "an ultralight gyro instructor (BFI) working outside of Burlington, VT." (390 miles from me RT)

I guess my best bet (as I want a SP rating) is still:

Jim Logan, CFI-Gyro, 5209 exemption
Trans America Rotorcraft, Ltd.
Address: 163 Primrose Road, Williston Park, NY 11596
Phone: 516-746-3427
Comments: Training for solo through CFI ratings. Flight and ground instruction by Demetrios Jim-Logan, CFI/Rotorcraft-helicopter and gyroplane, advanced ground instructor. Train in RAF 2000 dual-seat side-by-side powered by Subaru Legacy 130 hp engine. Year-round flight training by appointment only. Training for solo through CFI ratings.

I'm still hoping the www.yankeerotors.net folks know of somone closer (having two daughters at home (4 mo and 2.3 years) means I can't disapear for too long or the wife would kill me)

Quote:

" (having two daughters at home (4 mo and 2.3 years) means I can't disapear for too long or the wife would kill me) "

If you train in a stock RAF 2000 with no stab " it " may kill you.

Good morning Chuck! 2 posts , 2 RAF bashes....

yellowbird,

forget what this cranky old man chuck says!!!!! call jim talk to him, talk to some of his past students, talk to people who have flown with him and make up your own mind.

Yellowbird: Yes, if you want SP or private, Jim Logan is the closest to you.

John Christopher will confirm that.

" Good morning Chuck! 2 posts , 2 RAF bashes...."
__________________

CLS447, when a newcommer asks a question what is wrong with pointing out that a stock RAF 2000 can kill you, the record speaks for its self.

To you and a few others here telling the truth seems to upset you, and with no other means of expressing your thoughts you resort to labelling the person as a "Basher "

Are you another of the unfortunates who believe the line that RAF and their minions give to new commers that...

"Training with one of their instructors will prevent the RAF 2000 from bunting B. S. ? "

I would like your thoughts on that.

Soon in a Book store near you!
"How not to get killed in a RAF"
by Chuck Elsworth
The saga of this Jedi to prevent deaths and transform a Surucucu Pico-de-jaca in a docile Garden Snake.
Heron

chuck,
here's a man jim logan who has more rating then you, has more teaching hours in a gyro then you, and you got the ball to tell this man if you take lesson from jim logan you will die,

chuck the man is trying to make a living, you come on this forum and bad mouth him and each time you do make it harder for him to work ,what in the world did this man ever do to you??? that you want to take money out of his families mouth?

i'll tell ya what come to benson days 2006!!!! you would make my day if you would come down and say howdy!!!!!!!

chuck,
here's a man jim logan who has more rating then you, has more teaching hours in a gyro then you, and you got the balls to tell this man if you take lesson from jim logan you will die,

chuck the man is trying to make a living, you come on this forum and bad mouth him and each time you do make it harder for him to work ,what in the world did this man ever do to you??? that you want to take money out of his families mouth?

i'll tell ya what come to benson days 2006!!!! you would make my day if you would come down and say howdy!!!!!!!

Ben:

You just can't seem to understand the core issue here.

This is not about the persons ratings or what the person flys.

It is about teaching and what you teach in.

Jim Logan has a responsibility to his students to make every effort to teach them how to fly safely, he instead chooses to remain outside the mainstream of flight training not only by teaching in a machine that is poorly designed but he refuses to upgrade to a more safe design. And to really seperate mimself from the mainstream of flight instruction he wrongly tries to convince his students that he can by his training give the student the skills to defy physics.

Ben I am not the one that is making it hard for him to feed his family because people may not want to fly with him, he is doing it to himself.

And just to get back to your gloating because you think that Jim has more ratings than me, that means zero even if he has more,( which incidentally I do not see ) what counts is how and what you teach.

Jim teaches in the gyroplane end of aviation and yes he holds a gyroplane instructors rating, I on the otherhand have not added that to my license for the simple reason that I have no use for it.

I do however teach on complex, large aircraft as well as the most basic of small aircraft.

If and when I should decide to teach on gyroplanes the add on for instructing on them would be very easy to get.

So why don't you think about just who is to blame for any difficulties that Jim may have and put the blame where it belongs...his refusal to move beyond the unorthodox ideas that he has about flying and those ideas compromizing the safety factor.

Licenses and ratings really have nothing to do with how you teach. In the world that I work in Jim would be looked at as a abnormal curiosity...and would not be employable.

Chuck E.

chuck, ever fly with jim logan? ever take a lesson from him? have ya talked to him in the last 15 years? it amazes me is how you know i guess by asmoses what and how he teaches. you say this is about teaching. but the truth is you got a hard-on for raf.

"Jim teaches in the gyroplane end of aviation and yes he holds a gyroplane instructors rating, I on the otherhand have not added that to my license for the simple reason that I have no use for it"

chuck, that's your problem, "you have no use for it" but you sure can complain about it

" it amazes me is how you know i guess by asmoses what and how he teaches. "

Ben, I believe you mean "osmosis" ?

In which case it is not really a good analogy because my opinion on what he teaches is based on what RAF and their instructors teach, and unless the laws of physics have somehow been altered without the rest of the world being aware both RAF and Jim Logan are teaching something that is wrong..period..

It is impossible to teach anyone the physical motor skills to over ride the physics of a high thrustline flying machine that does not have at least a horizontal stabilizer.....what that method of teaching does is gives a false sense of well being to the student until some day the aircraft suddenly encounters a disturbance that results in a pitching movement that cannot be recovered from due to the power push over that results....

....but, hey Ben you are free to believe whatever you wish.

" chuck, that's your problem, "you have no use for it" but you sure can complain about it "

Thats an interesting comment Ben, I wonder what qualifications you have to complain about my opinions on gyroplane safety?

Don't bother to answer Ben because we are worlds apart in out thoughts on this subject.

chuck last comment

not once have i said i was qualified for anything but being a student !!!! i just wish you stop trashing a good cfi

If I'm not mistaken Jim has 2000+ hours in his RAF and is still around to talk about it. Does that mean that he is a phenomenally good pilot or extremely lucky, or maybe a little of both? I mean, after all he's flying an inherently dangerous craft.

As a little analogy, I know that if I stop my motorcycle at a traffic light and don't put my feet down it will tip over, or if I take a really tight turn at 100mph I'll wipe out in a second. So does that mean my motorcycle is inherently dangerous?

Absolutely. Every vehicle is inherently dangerous in its own way. But that doesn't mean that anyone who pilots/drives a vehicle should be badmouthed. You learn to compensate for your particular vehicle's "flaws".

The laws of physics are constant. Follow the laws and everything is fine. Break or ignore the laws and you're in trouble, buddy. And that goes for anybody, not just Jim. Obviously he is following the rules to the letter.

ONe last point. If you live in the upper NorthEast and you want to train, Jim is the only game in town. And he owns an RAF, so you train in an RAF. End of story. Someday we may get one or two gyro CFI's in the area with other craft so we would have a choice, but right now we don't. If we want to learn to fly a gyro in NJ, NY, CT, etc. it's an RAF or nothing.