Mentone Questions

Unfortunately I was not able to go to Mentone this year, But I would like to ask some questions to those who did.

Partial answers are fine, others may fill in the blanks.

1. What gyros came in that 18 wheeler ?

2. Who owns the yellow air command tandem ? ( and all other details about it ? )

3. Did the 2 place Honeybee carry passengers & what engine did it use ?

4. What were the awards this year & who got them ?

5. Did Dick & Karol Degraw have a machine this year ?

6.Did that new SxS from auto-gyro actually fly ?

7. Did anyone get a ride in that SxS Magni ?

8. Did they have the repairmans course as listed on the schedule ?

9. Any pics of the banquet ?

10. Is everyone impressed with the MTO, Calidus & that SxS ? ( are they gonna take the market by storm? )

I hope I am not prying too much here. I have lots more questions...Thanks

CLS447 said:

3. Did the 2 place Honeybee carry passengers & what engine did it use ?...

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Jim Fields told me at Oshkosh that they had prop damage on the HoneyBee tandem, and that it would not be flying at Mentone. The engine is the GM Ecotec four-cylinder, 180 HP.


The 90 HP Suzuki 1.3L that was on the tandem last year is now powering the high-performance single-place. That one was flying every day at Oshkosh.

Stan, Congratulations on those awards, they were well deserved.

Was there a Magni SxS there ? The Orion, right ?

I did not know the tandem Honeybee was there last year. I wonder if they have made any sales yet. Looks pretty nice to me ????

What were the innovations on the Golden Butterfly that got an award ?

Paul, thanks for the engine info !

I was just searching for the ONE picture of that Magni Orion. I can't find it !

Does anyone have some good pics of it? Would you care to share them ???

I found the pic of the CAVALON, CAVALON, CAVALON ! Maybe if I say it enough, I will remember that name !

CLS447 said:

I was just searching for the ONE picture of that Magni Orion. I can't find it !

Does anyone have some good pics of it? Would you care to share them ???

I found the pic of the CAVALON, CAVALON, CAVALON ! Maybe if I say it enough, I will remember that name !

Click to expand...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25426430@N05/sets/72157627210268349/


.

Chris, I took these pictures of the Orion at Mentone.

CLS447 said:

Stan,
What were the innovations on the Golden Butterfly that got an award ?
!

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Chris,

Jim's Turbo Golden had several features not seen before in public. The Turbo Golden has always been a large Gyroplane but this one was even larger with a couple of cargo pods mounted to each side of the Gyro. The pods were there to show off it's cargo carrying capability. (400 lbs worth). One of the reasons it can do this is because of the new 300 HP, Turbo, Intercooled, Subaru engine that was mounted on it. The machine also had a folding mast system that is unique and is actuated by a hydralic ram that is part of a ground support unit. Also up on top of the mast, this machine had the new Metro Launch System Pre-rotator that spins this big rotor system up to near flight speed for very short takeoff rolls unmatched by any other 2 place machine I am aware of. (< 300 ft takeoff roll). This is accomplished with a new high tech brushless electric motor and a 72 volt electric system that requires a whole series of batteries. These batteries do double duty in Jims machine as he is rigging his to be a crop sprayer for his farm. In this mode the rear seat will be removed and a 55 gallon drum will be mounted there in it's place to serve as a tank for the pesticide. Then 10 ft spray booms will be mounted to each side and the machine becomes a useful farm implement that he can use on his farm. Next year he hopes to have the spray unit perfected and ready to demonstrate at the PRA 50th convention.

With the ability to land almost anywhere (in very rough conditions) with the G-Force Landing Gear and now to take off in less than the distance of a Soccer field, along with it's cargo capacity, the Turbo Golden is well positioned to be used in Search and Rescue roles, or in Support Roles in areas without developed runways.

Jim's machine was just recently finished and had not been able to fly off his 40 hr test phase yet, so he wasn't able to fly it at the Convention, but it does have about 6 hrs on it and he did bring a video of it flying and had that playing on a TV in his Trailer. While it looked kind of "Beverly Hillbillies" with the Cargo pods on either side, and doesn't have the polished look of the "AutoGyro" machines with their beautiful Carbon Fibre bodies, it is a very innovative machine with capabilities beyond any other models available.

CLS447 said:

...I did not know the tandem Honeybee was there last year...

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It wasn't. But three of his machines were at Oshkosh in 2010.

GyroDoug said:

Chris,

Jim's Turbo Golden had several features not seen before in public. The Turbo Golden has always been a large Gyroplane but this one was even larger with a couple of cargo pods mounted to each side of the Gyro..

Click to expand...

I've got a few questions about this TGB having flown the "original" TGB at Olney...

1) Did he mention fuel burn rate?
2) Did he mention fuel capacity?
3) what is the rotor diameter?
4) what is the gyro's gross weight?

55gal drum of liquid equates to around 400lbs given the liquid may be lighter or heaver than water. Now with a pilot at 200 lbs, that is over 600lbs of payload NOT including fuel. Since the TGB is already a very heavy gyro with a large drag profile, is there new math at work here?

Then there are the cargo pods at a reported capacity of 400lbs, additional drag and is that with two people and fuel on board?

CLS447 said:

2. Who owns the yellow air command tandem ? ( and all other details about it ? )

Click to expand...

Chris,
That is a nice looking AC! Very clean... I got the following from the picture.
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=77577
Paul...

CLS447 said:

Stan, Congratulations on those awards, they were well deserved.

Was there a Magni SxS there ? The Orion, right ?

I did not know the tandem Honeybee was there last year. I wonder if they have made any sales yet. Looks pretty nice to me ????

What were the innovations on the Golden Butterfly that got an award ?

Paul, thanks for the engine info !

Click to expand...

Hi Chris, you were missed (as usual)

There are at least 3 Magni Orion's in the Midwest, I certified them.
One is based not too far from Mentone. ( he said he wasn't coming)
I heard one was due to fly in, from Illinois, but I didn't see it.
I have better pictures of them, but can't find them right now.

CLS447 said:

10. Is everyone impressed with the MTO, Calidus & that SxS ? ( are they gonna take the market by storm? )

Click to expand...

Mike Burton flew one of the Calidus machines that was there. He was giving rides in it constantly. He was very impressed with it and now really wants to own one. I think everyone was impressed with how quick they fly. Mike was impressed that he could get a tru 100 mph flight out of a machine with less than 5 gph fuel burn and how easy it was too land compared to the 2 place Sparrowhawks he has trained in. I suspect that was because it is so much lighter. Anyway he really liked the machine and would love to have one.

perbgyro said:

I've got a few questions about this TGB having flown the "original" TGB at Olney...

1) Did he mention fuel burn rate?
2) Did he mention fuel capacity?
3) what is the rotor diameter?
4) what is the gyro's gross weight?

55gal drum of liquid equates to around 400lbs given the liquid may be lighter or heaver than water. Now with a pilot at 200 lbs, that is over 600lbs of payload NOT including fuel. Since the TGB is already a very heavy gyro with a large drag profile, is there new math at work here?

Then there are the cargo pods at a reported capacity of 400lbs, additional drag and is that with two people and fuel on board?

Click to expand...

1- I do not know what the fuel burn rate is on this engine. Perhaps Jim will check out this thread and be able to tell us.

2- Standard Fuel capacity is 15 Gallons. Another 10 Gallons can easily be added with the 2 Aux tanks Larry developed for the Aurora. I do not know if he has developed a larger Aux. tank fro this machine, but it wouldn' tbe that hard to do.

3- I believe Larry told me this machine uses a 32 ft Rotor. Again perhaps Jim can verify that for us.

4- I don't remember the gross weight for the Turbo Golden but I know Larry lists the Payload at 700 lbs. So there is no new math involved it is simply a matter of disk loading and thrust and this machine with over 300 HP and a 76 " 4 blade prop has plenty of both.

As for your last question, the payload is 700 lbs. that can be split up any way it needs to be. It depends on how much the pilot and passenger and fuel weigh, whether or not you are going to be able to get 200 lbs in each of the cargo pods. Realistically you are probably not going to get 2 people fuel and 400 lbs of cargo. Just like any other aircraft, it has it's limits and you have to work with what you need to get the best mix for your particular mission. BUt even with these limits this machine has more capacity and varied capabilities than any other 2 place machine I am aware of.

Wow, now we are getting some info !!!!!!

Doug, thanks for that piece on the Golden !

Tommy, I am flattered, but let's face it .....nobody really missed me !

3 Orions registered in this country........I would love to have seen the build threads & flight reports !

So, the CAVALON did not fly at all ?

CLS447 said:

let's face it .....nobody really missed me !

Click to expand...

I missed you.

You need to get your but and your AirCommand(s) to next year's 50th Anniversary convention!

.

perbgyro said:

I've got a few questions about this TGB having flown the "original" TGB at Olney...

1) Did he mention fuel burn rate?
2) Did he mention fuel capacity?
3) what is the rotor diameter?
4) what is the gyro's gross weight?

55gal drum of liquid equates to around 400lbs given the liquid may be lighter or heaver than water. Now with a pilot at 200 lbs, that is over 600lbs of payload NOT including fuel. Since the TGB is already a very heavy gyro with a large drag profile, is there new math at work here?

Then there are the cargo pods at a reported capacity of 400lbs, additional drag and is that with two people and fuel on board?

Click to expand...

Howdy All -

Fuel Burn - prob over 10 gph, STILL EARLY in the testing process. The machine is a TOOL. (if I can do my job, or parts of it, from the seat of a gyro, GUESS WHAT !! :humble:

The Turbo Golden's (which my wife has named the 'TIGGY-B' i.e. Turbo Golden Butterfly ) fuel capacity, as we have equipped it will be 27.5 US gal when completed, cruise @ 70 mph, DNE of 110 mph.

We are currently testing with 31' blades, soon will be trying a 34'.

Gross weight is currently 1950, empty is 1250. With the changes we did just yesterday, those numbers will change, maybe dramatically, we'll test & see ! Larry N. is truly inspired.

Payload is 700#, (which may change), which I understand to be 'people, gear, & fuel'.

More changes WILL HAPPEN this week which (we believe) will shorten take-roll. We are so looking forward to the final version !

farmer Jim

Excellent Jim. Glad it's all going well and you are enjoying the process.

Mitch

farmer jim said:

...Payload is 700#, (which may change), which I understand to be 'people, gear, & fuel'.

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Jim, payload doesn't generally include the weight of the fuel. It the weight of everything commercial operators get paid to carry, including occupants, fuel and baggage.

That's while you'll sometimes see the term "full fuel payload." Payload increases on shorter trips, because the fuel takes less of the max gross weight.

It's great to see Butterfly's increased profile this year at Oshkosh and Mentone. Where are you guys getting 34' blades?

Re post # 10

fuel brn prob 10 gph+ - more testing will tell

our bird will have 27.5 gal cap. when we take delivery

testing with 31' rotor, will be trying 34's soon

gross weight is 1950, empty is 1250, gross will be changing ?!!!! (engine mods)

fJ

Hay, Paul & Mitch -

We're putting on an 8' hub bar in the near future.

Been looking for a hobby for 30 years, haven't had this much fun in a LONG time !!

fJ

fj