Just brought home my first Gyro!

I'm not into flipping the engine over, ect. because I really like the way my Command looks. BUT, safety first! Can anyone help?

Bryan, I too love the looks of that gyro, I always have. BUT are you going to sit around and look at it, or fly the danged thang?

Here on this forum you have available the advantage of many years of experience. We all want to help you have a safer machine. If you don't heed it, you are one dumb sucker!:D

Gyrojake sez:
Well I'm not to bright nor do I know much about gyros.

... Jake, your modesty is downright overwhelming!
 
Bryan, you 've heard this stuff about the RAF gyro also haven't you ?

Would you ever take a ride in one of them ??
 
Okay guys I am listening. I want to make this thing safe to fly. I just wished I had known what to look for when buying.

So, where do I start? Do I call Air Command and ask what it will take to make this thing safe to fly? How about some of you Air Command owners/flyers give me some suggestions on what to do. What type of blades should I be looking for? What can I get for my 23 foot Dragon Wings?

Oh hell, I am all confused. There goes tonight! I just wanted to come home and polish the blades. Hey guys, if I change my mind and decide to buff the blades, what should I use and is there a secret.

Thanks in advance!

Bryan
 
Bryan,
I'll try to post some photos of Air Commands that have been modified. If you modify your gyro to get it closer to center line thrust you should still be able to use the Dragon Wing rotor blades.

Here's Greg Spicola flying his modified Air Command at the Bensen Days flyin. This Air Command has Dragon Wing rotor blades:

YouTube - ‪Greg Spicola flying his gyrocopter at Bensen Days 2007‬‏
 

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Just to stimulate some conversation, if the only thing that changed that resulted in this being a high thrust machine was changing to a lightweight rotor, couldn't that be remedied by a longer mast and/or a larger (and thus heavier) rotor?
 
Just to stimulate some conversation, if the only thing that changed that resulted in this being a high thrust machine was changing to a lightweight rotor, couldn't that be remedied by a longer mast and/or a larger (and thus heavier) rotor?

It had a high thrust line with heavy rotors. Replacing them with lighter rotors makes it worse.
 
Bryan, I'm sorry you had to hear these concerns after you'd already bought the machine, but unfortunately, that's when you asked. It was the behavior of this machine's original configuration that almost got gyros complete outlawed in the UK, and prompted the famous Glasgow University study often quoted here on the forum.

Some have pointed to the lack of training documented for many of the pilots who died in these machines, and that's a reasonable point of argument, but there have also been lots of untrained or marginally trained pilots who survived flying in more pitch-stable gyros.

When Mom used to see us playing rough she'd say, "Sure - it's fun until somebody gets hurt!" The risks involved here are not like the ones we take to get heart bypass surgery or chemotherapy. These risks are associated with a recreational activity, which means they're completely optional. Recreational flying will more fun if you make it safer.

I did the calculations on an Air Command low-rider. Changing from 25' Dragon Wings to 25' Sport Rotors only raises the CG about 0.3 inches, and that's best case with the longer "Super Thruster" mast. I suspect part of the difference people observe with heavier rotors on this machine has to do with how fast they lose and recover RPM when things do get light in the seat.

Air Command sells a kit with all the parts needed to convert this machine to the current configuration. It retails for $2250, and there are folks who say they've done the conversion themselves for about 15% of that cost in materials. But if you aren't skilled at fabrication and/or need drawings and support, the factory deal may be the way to go.

I've tried to eyeball a side-view of the post-2001 "High Command" machines that claim to be centerline thrust, and calculate the distance of the major masses from a datum line running through the prop hub. It appears to me the factory set-up actually puts the thrustline below CG, perhaps to account for the optional aux fuel tanks, which put more drag and another 30 pounds very low on the airframe.

You need advice and help from people who've actually done the conversion to decide how to proceed.
 
I have an idea. Instead of hearsay, why not lets post the facts again, and just let the numbers speak for themselves, so the guy can make an educated decision;

Over many years, there have been people inside and outside of the forum that have been spreading misleading information concerning the accent rate of the Air Command gyroplanes. They throw numbers around without the facts behind them, intentionally trying to mislead people into a false conclusion that the Commander gyroplanes were dangerous and deadly to anyone flying them. When people do this, they are misleading you, in fact, it’s the same as lying to you.

What do you think about a person that is trying to intentionally mislead you by not presenting the full facts? I won’t ever stand for it, and why should you? If these people have mislead you all these years about one thing, then what else have they not been completely honest about?

In my constant effort to correct history, I have went through every listed death involved in a Commander gyroplane on the FAA data base, and created a summarized report as to the pertinent information involved in each of the 25 cases listed, and the circumstances behind as to why the pilot crashed. After all, there is a big difference between an aircraft that crashes due to poor flying characteristics, and aircraft that were flown by unqualified people with inadequate training, or even no training at all.

This reports shows the following pertinent information of the pilots competence level, and it forms an unquestionable pattern that none of these 25 events were the fault of the aircraft whatsoever, and all could have been avoided if just basic gyroplane trading would have been completed, except in two cases where the pilots crashed during incapacitation from heart attacks, and one case where the pilot was incapacitated from ice buildup over his eyes and face.

I typed this report by hand, so if anyone finds an error, or knows of other accidents that can be added, or can add additional information to any of these events, please contact me. Here is a summery breakdown of the pilot competence in the 25 reports;

How many of the pilots were Rotorcraft Rated:................None
How many of the pilots are confirmed no training:.............7of 25
How many of the pilots may not have had training:...........10 of 25
How many of the pilots had less than 1 hours training:......1 of 25
How many of the pilots had less than 2 hours training;......3 of 25
How many of the pilots had less than 3 hours training;......2 of 25
How many of the pilots had less than 5 hours training;......2 of 25
How many of the pilots had less than 6 hours training;......2 of 25
How many of the pilots had less than 8 hours training;......1 of 25
How many of the pilots had more than 8 hours training;.....0 of 25
How many of the pilots were killed for other reasons;........3 of 25

The highest time pilot had 23 total hours in type, and was killed showing off beyond his ability during a sales demonstration. This list indicates that as many as 17 out of these 25 pilots probably didn't have any training.

As you can see, the pattern is clear. None of these people had enough training, or no training at all. It would not have mattered if they were flying a HCLT or CLT, they simply did not have enough experience to be flying any type of rotorcraft. I have looked at the few accident reports out of the U.K and Italy, and all fall into the same category as above.

An important factor is to remember when I owned Air Command; we were selling 97% of all gyroplanes being manufactured at the time, which was also an 80% increase of gyroplanes being put into the realm of aviation. It was only natural that the gyroplane accident rate would rise with this 80% increase of gyroplane activity, and accidents had greater odds of being a Commander simply due to our overwhelming dominance of the market.

Today’s gyroplane accident rate had decreased mainly due to around an 85% decrease of gyroplane activity since I left the market.

For those that require the full account of each event listed, you can go the following FAA link and search with the date and location: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

I know that to some people these inconvenient facts go against what they want to believe about the Commander Gyroplane, but more importantly, they go against what they want YOU to believe about the Commander Gyroplane. But facts are facts, and reasonable people will see that.

Air Command FAA Accident Analysis Summery Report;

Report #1;
Name:.....................Joseph R. Benjamin
Date:......................06/26/2005
Location:.................Highgate, VT
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........NONE
Total Hours in Type:...First flight.
Winds:.....................7
Cause of Accident: ....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #2;
Name:.....................Arthur Vernon Close
Date:......................12/03/2004
Location:.................Wilmont, OH
Killed:......................2
Type:......................532 Commander Two-Place SXS
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:...UNKNOWN
Winds:.....................8
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to avoid power lines.


Report #3;
Name:.....................James F. Gear
Date:......................01/01/2003
Location:.................Lansing, IL
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:..UNKNOWN
Winds:....................16 gusts to 21
Cause of Accident:....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training. Factor to the
.............................accident was the wind gusts.

Tom Milton added: I witnessed this fatality. The pilot had recently soloed himself, on a very calm day, without his instructor's consent. The fatality occurred at our club's Polar Bear event on Jan 1st. He claimed he had no intention of flying and was going to taxi his gyro down to the party. With his seatbelt and helmet unfastened, he took of on a very gusty day and was dead within seconds.


Report #4;
Name:.....................Anthony Spagnoletti
Date:......................09/12/1999
Location:.................Conroe, TX
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................582 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:.10 (Not flown one year prior to accident)
Winds:...................Calm
Cause of Accident:...Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.

Tom Milton added: I believe the brother of the accident pilot is a member of this forum.


Report #5;
Name:.....................Gary Falen
Date:......................06/12/1994
Location:.................Georgetown, OH
Killed:......................1
Type:......................503 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........NONE
Total Hours in Type:..8
Winds: Calm
Cause of Accident: ....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #6;
Name:.....................John Rains
Date:......................09/26/1992
Location:.................Eureka, CA
Killed:......................2
Type:......................532 Commander Two-Place SXS
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........2
Total Hours in Type:...5
Winds:.....................5
Cause of Accident: .....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #7;
Name:.....................Barney Schmidt
Date:......................08/29/1992
Location:.................Dumas, TX
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........NONE
Total Hours in Type:.2
Winds:...................5
Cause of Accident:...Pilot's failure to acquire proper training. Factor to the
............................accident was 6600 density altitude.


Report #8;
Name:.....................Royce R. Rutter
Date:......................05/31/1992
Location:.................Washburn, IA
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........3
Total Hours in Type:...7
Winds:.....................7
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #9;
Name:.....................Garry A. Lindsey
Date:......................08/04/1991
Location:.................Libby, MT
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........NONE
Total Hours in Type:...NONE (First flight)
Winds:.....................Calm
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #10;
Name:.....................Donald R. Lee
Date:......................07/13/1991
Location:.................Quitman, MS
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........NONE
Total Hours in Type:..5
Winds:....................3
Cause of Accident:....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #11;
Name:.....................Charles R. May
Date:......................01/15/1991
Location:.................Tomahawk, WI
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................503 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....UNKNOWN
Training Time:..........NONE
Total Hours in Type:.12
Winds:...................2
Cause of Accident:...Factor to the accident pilot loss of control, had no
............................goggles and had ¼” of ice buildup over his eyes and
............................face after ground impact.

Tom Milton added: I spoke to a customer of mine that witnessed this accident. It's true about the icing. It was one of his first actual flights in the gyro.


Report #12;
Name:.....................Robert Lewis Demarco
Date:......................04/07/1990
Location:.................Okeechobee, FL
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........15 minutes
Total Hours in Type:..1
Winds: Calm
Cause of Accident:....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #13;
Name:.....................Carl E. Hittle
Date:......................04/07/1990
Location:.................El Paso, TX
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........2
Total Hours in Type:..2.1 (First flight solo, not flown 6 months after training)
Winds:....................6
Cause of Accident:....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #14;
Name:.....................Guerra Oscar J, Jr.
Date:......................02/17/1990
Location:.................Hearne, TX
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................447 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........6.5
Total Hours in Type:..7 (First solo flight)
Winds:....................Calm
Cause of Accident:....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.

Tom Milton added:I witnessed this fatality at the PRA convention, as did many others. This accident helped lead to the P.A.S.S. card system at the PRA conventions.


Report #15;
Name:.....................Julian A. Sheimo
Date:......................01/22/1990
Location:.................Munster, IN
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:..13
Winds:....................12
Cause of Accident:....Pilot making advanced maneuvers showing off beyond
.............................his ability.

Tom Milton added: This was only his second pattern after 2 or 3 runway passes. His instructor, John Potter, told him NOT to leave the runway. He wasn't ready for a pattern.


Report #16;
Name:.....................Preston E. Stanger
Date:......................01/11/1990
Location:.................Hansen, ID
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:..23
Winds:....................8
Cause of Accident:....Pilot making advanced maneuvers showing off beyond
.............................his ability for sales demo flight, made abrupt right turn
.............................to low and impacted ground.


Report #17;
Name:.....................William E. Fifer
Date:......................11/13/1988
Location:.................Sullivan, IL
Killed:......................1
Type:......................503 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........6
Total Hours in Type:...6 (First flight solo, not flown 4 months after training)
Winds:.....................12
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.

Tom Milton added: I talked to a family member who told me that the pilot wasn't comfortable flying a gyro yet. He decided to "try it" solo.


Report #18;
Name:.....................William A. Cameron
Date:......................10/14/1988
Location:.................Hixson, TN
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:...4 (First flight solo, not flown 4 months after training)
Winds:.....................Calm
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #19;
Name:.....................Robert M. Heibel
Date:......................09/21/1988
Location:.................Cottage Grove, WI
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander Two-Place SXS
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........3
Total Hours in Type:...8
Winds:.....................8
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training, and pilots
..............................failure to meet the manufacturers requirement to have
..............................a minimum of 50 hours in type before attempt to fly
..............................532 Commander Two-Place solo.

Tom Milton added: If I remember correctly, the accident pilot had only a pattern or two of dual in this machine with an instructor that had only flown an A&S 18-A. I believe this crash was on his first solo and without his instructors permission. A customer of mine witnessed this accident.


Report #20;
Name:.....................Robert L. Glens
Date:......................07/23/1988
Location:.................Baytown, TX
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:...5
Winds: 4
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.


Report #21;
Name:.....................Jerome Lamb
Date:......................11/04/1987
Location:.................Meriden, CT
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........8
Total Hours in Type:...9
Winds:.....................9
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training, and failure to
..............................control aircraft.

Tom Milton added: Jerome was a great guy but didn't want to come all the way back to Lansing for more training. (I don't think he had anywhere near the 8 hours listed, maybe 1 or 2)He had a local gyro pilot that was going to "watch him" and guide him through. According to a witness that I talked to, his local guy was late and Jerry decided to fly the runway, he "over ran his blades" and rolled into the ground on rotation.


Report #22;
Name:.....................John L. Watts, SR.
Date:......................07/27/1987
Location:.................Davenport, IA
Killed;......................1
Type:......................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:...13
Winds:.....................18 gusting to 26
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training, and flying in
..............................high winds beyond his ability.

Tom Milton added: Watts was another great guy. John had free training with his purchase. Sadly, John was having a real bad time over-controlling the gyro. He was supposed to come back and fly with our CFI some more,(a forum member) but decided to try it at home. I talked to an eyewitness who described severe over-controlling and bunt. I really doubt this training time as well. I think he only flew with us for 2 afternoons (John, do you recall?)


Report #23;
Name:.....................Kenneth Ray Crews
Date:......................06/28/1987
Location:.................St. Francisville, LA
Killed:......................1
Type:......................532 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:...21
Winds:.....................7
Cause of Accident:.....Suffered heart attack during flight, and lost control.


Report #24;
Name:.....................David P. Langr
Date:......................05/15/1988
Location:.................Dodge Center
Killed:......................1
Type:......................447 Commander
Rotorcraft Rating:......NONE
Training Time:...........NONE
Total Hours in Type:...5
Winds:.....................12
Cause of Accident:.....Pilot's failure to acquire proper training.

Tom Milton added:David got only enough dual to give him the urge to try it alone. His dual was free, but he never came back for the rest of his training. David called me the day before his fatal accident and told me he was flying and doing wing-overs. I encouraged him to come back for more free lessons and not to fly. The next day his hangar partner called to tell me he died doing a wing-over.


Report #25;
Name:.....................Wilter C. Samuels
Date:......................02/01/1987
Location:.................Paducah. KY
Killed:.....................1
Type:.....................532 Commander Elite
Rotorcraft Rating:.....NONE
Training Time:..........UNKNOWN
Total Hours in Type:..5
Winds:....................7
Cause of Accident:....Suffered heart attack during flight, and lost control.


There were five deaths in Commanders in the UK, and all five were being flown by people with no more than 5 hours of training, and then on very windy days. They all fit right in with the US accident report, right down the line. No training, or not enough, and flying in conditions exceeding their abilities.

I have always been very upfront about the dangers involved with maintaining, flying and obtaining proper training. I have always made proper training a top priority. Even though, people would still ignore even the harshest of warnings and the result is an accident or one waiting to happen.

There is much more to flying than learning to control an aircraft. Training is not just to show you how to control the vehicle; it is also about learning how the vehicle works, and why it works. Training is also to teach you to safely operate within the aviation community with other aircraft. It is an essential part of safe flying, and necessary for every type of aircraft.

Remember; Man is a two dimensional creature, while flying is a three dimensional task, of which man must learn.

.
 
That list, while informative, does not include all fatalities in Air Commands.

I was told by fellow chapter members of one such that occured at the Albany, Oregon, airport in the time frame around late 1980's-early 1990's.

An attorney, previous flying time unknown, bought an A/C kit (whether from the factory or another private-party, is unknown). Built it, and then invited chapter members who also owned and flew A/C's to inspect his work. They did the brotherly gyro flier thing and pronounced the machine was built right.

This attorney proceeded to fly his creation, and shortly ended his life while doing so. His widow's attorney came sniffling around these fellow gyro fliers to try to blame them for their help in causing her husband's demise. Thanks a lot!

Dennis: You have posted this info several times over the years on this forum, and usually claim people are lying, and that they are deliberately mid-leading others by what they say.

I say you must consider that some people don't lie, and that when some express their opinion, they aren't trying to sling mud at you, or are even lying. This is a third dimension you should consider regarding what folks say.

You are to commended to show the lack of available training that these fatalities were a result of. You and the A/C dealers pleaded with people to get the required training.

But, with these listed guys, those pleas fell on deaf ears. I believe they wanted to fly as you did in your amazing video, like Superman! And, they didn't wanted to obey the laws of safe flight, which include adequate training, which takes lots of time and patience.

I have not flown an A/C or Bensen gyro. I have only balanced on the mains in an A/C, and found it very easy to do, compared to a Vancraft or Sport Copter gyro. I believe this is due to the shorter wheelbase of the Bensen/Brock/Air Command gyros enabling balancing quicker.

Stick movements could keep it balanced even when a puff of wind hits you and slow you down enough to start sending the nose wheel back down onto the runway. Just pull back on the stick, and the nose wheel comes back up, even if the nose wheel was almost down on the ground again. Cant' do that with a longer wheelbase gyro.

I have learned from others that the control movements of the stick in flight of those type of gyros are basically all within the diameter of a US quarter. To me, that is a hot stick. Pilots of A/C's in our local chapter told me that they found wind gusts while flying caused un-commanded inputs to the controls if they hadn't had their forearm tightly pressed into their thigh.

I wonder how many of those fatalities would have been prevented if only they had received the available training as well as less sensitive controls...

I'm not even going to comment on the high thrustline vs centerline thrust issue. Others have done so very extensively previously.
 
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to thechap...

to thechap...

I don't have a dog in this fight. What I will tell you is there are other companies STILL producing kits that have different flight charicteristics than the lowrider a/c that have much better safety records as per fleet hours. Do some research and you will see who they are and how their machines differ.
As for who and who not to take advice from on this board, I have always found Paul's posts to be intelligent, insightful and relevant. Some of the others seem to me to have an emotional basis for their advice.
Good luck, make the right decisions. If you don't know which is the "right" decision...do more research until you do. As we used to say in the service.."You got the rest of your life to get it right"
Ben S
 
That list, while informative, does not include all fatalities in Air Commands. I was told by fellow chapter members of one such that occured at the Albany, Oregon, airport in the time frame around late 1980's-early 1990's..

As I did mention in the post, "I typed this report by hand, so if anyone finds an error, or knows of other accidents that can be added, or can add additional information to any of these events, please contact me.

So, if you can provide me the names, dates and details along with some proof to validate the event, I will be happy to add it to the list.

Dennis: You have posted this info several times over the years on this forum, and usually claim people are lying, and that they are deliberately mid-leading others by what they say.

That is a fact. There are some people on this forum that have lied about the Commander accidents, or exaggerate, which is as good as a lie. I have posted the facts here a few times, and will continue doing so when someone tried to distort the facts, intentionally or unintentionally.

I wonder how many of those fatalities would have been prevented if only they had received the available training as well as less sensitive controls...

Thats the first time anyone has commented that the Commander's controls are too sensitive. In fact, everyone always comments on how well the controls handle. Maybe you should finish your training in the Commander and actually fly it, then make a comment.
 
They throw numbers around without the facts behind them, intentionally trying to mislead people into a false conclusion...in fact, it’s the same as lying to you...

Since this possibility has been raised, a couple of other facts might be helpful.

In this era, many single-place gyroplanes were flown without FAA registrations, and many mishaps never showed up in the NTSB database, despite aircraft damage which legally should have required a report. It is reasonable to assume that the NTSB records are far from complete.

The logged hours of gyroplane pilots in the 1980s and 90s in many cases were a small fraction of their actual experience flying gyroplanes. Hours flown in ultralights, gyrogliders, and even Marchetti and Parsons trainers without N-numbers aren't counted by the FAA. Basing a conclusion about the total training or flight experience of any of these guys on their official logbooks is shaky.

Air Command itself issued a service bulletin in 2001 which states, in part:

"Air Command International, Inc. has concluded through extensive flight testing that the centerline thrust design imparts increased pitch stability, less drag, and makes the machine easier for beginning gyronauts to learn to fly the single place Air Command autogyro."

This suggests to me the manufacturer has determined that a high thrustline relative to CG makes the machine more difficult for beginning gyronauts to fly the single-place Air Command autogyro.

But maybe most important, the low-rider configuration of the Air Command has not been sold since the 2000 model year. That means there is no one on this thread who is in competition with these machines in any way.

There is, however, one person on this thread with the motive of a legacy to salvage.

Like Ben, I don't have a dog in this fight. But I've learned that it's important to discern biases among parties in a debate as a step to figuring out who's got correct information. And I'm immediately skeptical when someone repeatedly cuts and pastes 2000-word propaganda pieces into threads just to make it more tedious to scroll to the comments of others.
 
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Since this possibility has been raised, a couple of other facts might be helpful.

In this era, many single-place gyroplanes were flown without FAA registrations, and many mishaps never showed up in the NTSB database, despite aircraft damage which legally should have required a report. It is reasonable to assume that the NTSB records are far from complete..

As I said, you are welcome to POST THE FACTS. Rather than speculate, just POST THE FACTS. Please, post any accedent here that is not in my report, along with the time, place and person involved, and some kind of proff, rather than speculate.

Air Command itself issued a service bulletin in 2001 which states, in part:

"Air Command International, Inc. has concluded through extensive flight testing that the centerline thrust design imparts increased pitch stability, less drag, and makes the machine easier for beginning gyronauts to learn to fly the single place Air Command autogyro." This suggests to me the manufacturer has determined that a high thrustline relative to CG makes the machine more difficult for beginning gyronauts to fly the single-place Air Command autogyro.
But maybe most important, the low-rider configuration of the Air Command has not been sold since the 2000 model year. That means there is no one on this thread who is in competition with these machines in any way.
..

The new owners of Air Command was in the hole after acquiring the company from the people I sold it to. They saw this as an opportunity to make money from people's hysteria, and they made a LOT OF MONEY selling CLT kits. Hell, I wish I would have thought of it and done it before I sold the company. They had nothing to lose and all to gain.... at that moment in time, and in fact, that was the largest amount of money they ever made off of Air Command, and pulled them through a dry spell. And sure, they have to sell the machine with the CLT conversion now, they cut their own throats in the long run. Now they can't sell that ugly machine.

There is, however, one person on this thread with the motive of a legacy to salvage.

And that is true, thanks to a few people that has mislead the public. The difference between what I write and what you write is simple. What I write has facts, dates and numbers, and what you write has none.
 
No one is arguing that the classic Commander is not a CLT.

That's the point folks are trying to make - high thrustline + large pod + tiny hstab = susceptible to PPO.

When a design deficiency is known & not hard or expensive to fix, why not do it?
 
My take on it is as follows. Yes, CLT machines are more forgiving...but that doesn't necessarily mean HTL machines are inherently unsafe. People have flown and continue to fly HTL machines safely. For example, watch Birdy in his feral gyro on YouTube...HTL and he doesn't even have an H-stab, and it's just amazing to watch. Pure gyro porn.

An airplane analogy would be, say, high-wing vs. low-wing. High wing designs like a C-152 are more stable, much more forgiving in a stall, and very hard to make spin. A low-wing design like the Cirrus SR22, on the other hand, has an abrupt pitch-down in a stall and will spin in a heartbeat if you're not careful. I'd definitely wager more accidents happen in low-wing airplanes than high-wing airplanes. Yet low-wing airplanes are flown every day...safely...because people are trained in them and know how to stay away from dangerous situations.

So the difference is training. I would wager that even though there were doubtlessly a LOT of gyro accidents that were not reported as Dennis says, I'd wager that 99% of them are also "pilots" attempting to fly their craft with little to no training.

The machines look so simple that a lot of these people thought "how hard can it be?" The results were very predictable.

The same thing happens (though less frequently) with small helicopters. YouTube - ‪Stupid man attempts to fly a helicopter with no experience‬‏

I sincerely believe that CLT (and the H-stab) is probably the greatest thing to happen to gyroplanes in the last 30 years. But I think an HTL machine when flown by a properly trained and appropriately skilled pilot is not unsafe. But that training IS required.

So in summary, and back on topic...I definitely strongly recommend you convert the machine to CLT. It will make them machine easier to fly and more forgiving, and ultimately more sellable should you decide to trade up later.

-John
 
That's the point folks are trying to make - high thrustline + large pod + tiny hstab = susceptible to PPO.

When a design deficiency is known & not hard or expensive to fix, why not do it?

It is not a design deficiency, it is a characteristic of type that you don't even concern yourself with after becoming proficient with proper training, like in any aircraft.

A tail dragger will ground-loop, but it's not a design deficiency, it's a characteristic of type.

Yes, all new gyroplanes of the future will benefit from CLT design. Mine does.
 
Brian, I have been flying my lowrider A/C for three years now and I love it. It is just like yours except for the pod and I use the much heavier original SkyWheel rotors. I have been wanting to put on a pod but have decided not to in it's current configuration. I weigh in a 210 and did a double hang test on mine and it showed that my cg was 7" below the thrust line and that is after I raised my seat 4". So I think this winter I will try flipping the motor upright and rehang it to see if that raises the cg enough to put a pod on. I will talk to you further at Larry's Flyin.

Paul
 
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John- That guy trying to fly that helicopter without training just made me cringe. I cant imagine even thinking of doing such. I am surprised he got as far as he did in that video. Luckily he wrecked down low, instead of getting a lot of altitude in it. He was throttling back and everything.

Stan
 
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