Mother of 3 Arrested for Taking Pictures Of Public Helicopter Display

willisbr said:

A guy without a permit cuts a tree away and it falls into your home. He bails. Who was it? Who knows? Someone going door to door selling cookies for kids with cancer is fined for not having a permit here. But years ago someone claiming to do the same thing kicked in someone's door .... Drop the back story and follow the rules.

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In my opinion that case sounds as if was awfully poorly handled by the authorities, they should have used the explanation you have given here, but it amazes my plainclothes guys had the time, and felt it was his highest priority, to follow a tree feller. Any fear of him kicking doors in could have been alleviated by a simple check of his credentials.

Kicking doors in? Here a story that makes some Swat teams look more dangerous:

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=35297

My real point here is that people in these positions of authority MUST be held to a very high standard that excludes reckless behavior, bullying, abuse of authority, and vindictiveness. Procedures should be rigorous.

Any society which preaches “just follow the rules” because they are the rules, is on the road to hell. Rules and their application must be constantly assessed, questioned and modified.

hmmm....I had a few things to say, but I think I'll throw my soap box on the fire and toast a mashmallow. Just be carefull expecting someone else to protect you. Think about what kind of personallity WANTS to protect you.

I am not anti police, but, i have been around a group of off duty police officers and the way they talk about the public is horrible. In the minds of this group it was them against us. They openly discussed throwing their weight around. We do pay their salaries after all, but saying that to a police officer is going to get you some negative attention. Innocent until proven guilty seems to be out the door. I think you should be able to take a picture of whatever you wish as long as it is at a public place. This is America. However i dont think we are getting the full background here.

Yep, you are likely correct, there seems to be something hinkey going on behind what we know about this mess.

Fl90 said:

.... Just be carefull expecting someone else to protect you. Think about what kind of personallity WANTS to protect you.

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Phil makes a really valid point here. The type of guy who wants to do this job has to be a certain type of character or personality, to be able to exert authority. We need these people.

But we also need them to be held to very high standards.

There are lots of bad apples everywhere we go. Unfortunately many weed their way into positions of authority. Makes the whole lot look bad.

Howdy All,

What really scares me is that these people may figure out how to breed and have offspring.

There are good and bad public, and good and bad cops/people in authority. I would like to believe that the majority are good and reasonable people just going about their business.

There are an infinite number of ways of reporting any particular incident/accident depending on the views, motivations, accuracy, and intelligence of the reporter/s. In any particular incident like this I tend to try and read about it using multiple sources.

With my youngest son in Law Enforcement I have recently had an increased interest in what goes on with them. There are some truly frightening videos of bad cops, and equally frightening videos of bad things happening to cops simply doing their duty.

I have had very good and also unpleasant encounters with US cops. In England mostly good. In all cases I found that reacting politely goes a long way, but that sometimes when faced with an sphincter even that may do no good.

Cops are us, just people who can have a bad day then react in a less than optimal way when confronted by loud aggressive and abusive behavior. If automatically treated as the enemy, I think any of us would react in a less than friendly manner.

My last observation is that law Enforcement is a job where one has to deal with the scum and detritus of society a little more than most of us would care to, so I do tend to make allowances and cut them perhaps just a little slack.

Amazing what fits into 2 cents worth.

hahaaa. The kind of personality that wants a uniform and badge for immediate respect and authority will likely not be inclined to earn it, nor has earned it....hence the desire for the position. Granted, not everyone in the position has that personality. The hiring process does not screen for this deficiency, so I wonder what the percentage is? It is easy to pick this personality out in a stress situation, as it is driven by opposition and fed by fear. The longer duration of an instance, the less rational the individual gets.

As an ex-cop I'd say Resasi has it right .
Cop's are people just like you . thats all .

My experience:

Deputy sheriffs: 75% good people, 25% asses

City police: 75% asses, 25% good people, the younger the cop the more of an ass. Look for a reason to stop you. If they stop you for tag out, seat belt, speeding or something else minor, next thing you know there are three cars there, spotlights on you, blue lights blazing, and all of this after the one who stops you has your license or registration and knows you are a decent person, and you are cooperative and polite. They need to go bust some crack houses or something useful. but then they would have to face some danger and truly earn their pay, and let just the one cop give the traffic citation. I am forty years old, it is none of their damn business where I am going at 11:00 pm on a Friday night nor is it their business who is in my passenger seat unless they are doing something wrong.

State troopers or state police: never had anything but politeness from them. Just doing their job. Never been stopped for anything that i wasn't obviously guilty of.

Expect to ride a ticket from State or City on a stop. That's direct revenue. County get's as little as 50 cents for a citation.

If you get stopped for something minor such as a tag light out, chances are they are fishing for DUIs. 5 years of it. Over 100 DUI arests within 2 years...many from BS traffic infractions on midnights. The swarm of cars is determined by many things. Consider officer safety, time of day, young officer needing supervision or consultation, and lastly...everyone else is bored. Do we all have something better to do? It's a job. Don't we always have something better to do? Sure. Everyone of us.

I'd go also with Mr. Waggoner . I was a deputy sheriff and I made a point of being polite and professional . If I wrote you a ticket , you had it coming . After three years I had the same citation book that they first issued me .

You know, I'm thinking all of these occurrences come from “letter by letter” interpretations of the law. What we need is really wise judges, who, without prejudice, make very practical decisions based on each case, and the meaning of the law. (yeah, I know, not possible, just theorizing).

I'd guess the trespassing case here occurred because the woman had a very good idea of what the law stated she could and couldn’t do. She also knew, that with their “post 9-11 muscle” the cops would take great pleasure in telling her to desist. Furthermore, she reasoned that be being unreasonable and obstructive, they would trot out their power to detain and harass her. She may have underestimated just how much time and effort they would devote to that.

My judgement. (call me Solomon) Award $20,000 to the wrongly detained woman, an apology from cops directly involved, and their superior. Give her the benefit of the doubt on the missing money, and replace it. Disciplinary fines for the directly involved personnel (amounting to the value of the compensation, plus realistic costs for the courts) … or an alternative to resign immediately. A probation of sorts, any re-offence results in loss of the job. Might make others think twice.

This over-interpretation of the law works both ways. My son showed me a You-tube clip of a bunch of (presumably pissed) lads (late teens) in a car, with them all daring one “go on, do it”. He dashes out of the car, across the street, where there is a fairly serious looking copper striding down the path. He runs up, the copper stops, the kid gives him “the bird” with both hands about 5 feet in front of his face. At this point the kid makes a mistake, he turns to grin back at the camera, at the same time the officer makes the decision to whip out the night stick and give him belting. The cop gets him at least 3 or 4 hefty times as he runs and scrambles back towards the car. The camera goes off at this point. (it all looked pretty real)

Now, this could get a cop into a lot of trouble, (by the letter of the law) but my judgment would be: A fine for the kid for harassing the officer. A counseling session for the officer for over-reaction, (assuming the kid was not badly injured) and a record made in case of re-occurrence. (Though I'm not sure he is physiologically suited to the job, maybe someone should check that out!)

My point is, in the old days, before everything became quite so pedantic, there was a bit of leeway in the way the law was interpreted.:boom: And there was no way a young lad would risk doing that to a cop.

ah - found it: YouTube - ‪Police Prank Gone Wrong‬‏

That video never gets old .
I love it .

What makes anyone think that they can pull some dickhead stunt like that with any member of the public and not get an adverse reaction??

But let's choose some superfit, highly trained individual, armed with multiple weapons, ready and trained to react immediately, with the authority to dish out some serious hurt, then go up to him, act like a maniac, get right into his face and piss him off by screaming abuse at him!!!

My friend who is super-smart ( actually by staying in the car...he is) has said the is a really good wheeze.


Oh dear...why is he reacting like this...why is my friend, who thought this would be a good prank screaming ruuuuuun...this is really hurting...........


Three fingers Doc, no two... not sure. It's good Friday and I am Jesus.

Any member of the public who pulls out a club and starts beating someone who insults or taunts him in California will go to jail under Penal Code 243 and / or 245. The police should be held to at least that high a standard, because they're trained to know better and to know the law, with a sworn duty to protect, not injure, the public. It's your right to be an offensive idiot, as millions prove every day in ordinary life, and not a crime. To beat someone for being an offensive idiot, however, is a crime, and wearing a uniform isn't a defense but makes the crime even more unacceptable.

Wasp, now there you go trying to use common sense. You should now that doesn't apply anywhere anymore.

That kid deserved to get his ass beat, legal or not.

I have zero sympathy for him, hopefully he learned something from the experience - like sometimes there are consequences resulting from stupidity...

Did the cop overreact? Sure.

The police are trained to react to abnormal, antisocial, possibly dangerous behavior.They are trained to react swiftly.

That was all of the above, with the element of sudden surprise. The Police are always aware that they are targets, and that at any time they can be attacked.

Did he know it was a prank. No.

Did he know it would not suddenly escalate into violence. No.

The man suddenly rushing at him and then acting in a very abnormal way suddenly turns towards another in the car, was this possibly a set-up/ambush. How much time did he have before making the decision to attack, not very much.

Was it overreaction. In the light of the full facts, possibly. Did he have the full facts. No.

Is he a member of the public. No.

He is obliged, to uphold the law. He is held to account.

It's your right to be an offensive idiot, as millions prove every day in ordinary life, and not a crime.

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That is a blanket statement and not entirely correct. It depend on both the offense...and, the circumstances.

Under these particular circumstances, I think that some may well feel that the reaction could have been considered to be justifiable.

In my view, if I had done that, I would consider it a salutary lesson for very poor judgement.