ASC Response to Oshkosh

Lspav8r

Senior Member only in age
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From: [email protected]
Date: 08/23/09 15:53:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Joint Interest.


In a message dated 8/21/2009 10:15:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
I am writing to you as an individual, and not as a representative of the PRA so please treat this correspondence privately.

I have suggested to the PRA that in the interest of gaining a foothold on the recognition of the organization, that the PRA co-sponsor a tent like the one you used to have at Oshkosh before you pulled the plug due to the cost.

Both organizations together could share the costs associated with this type of event, and it would serve both organizations in the same way.

How much did this event (Airventure) cost to be a part of. This information is to give me an idea of what we would be getting in to if we were to take on this cooperative effort to share the costs.

I am gathering information since we have talked about doing it alone but I figured that the costs would be easier to handle if they were shared by the two organizations. As well as open the door for us both not be involved with Airventure once again.

If this is feasible than I think we could have more meaningful talks with regard to such an idea.

Jim Skelly
[email protected]
PRA/EAA and former ASC member

Hi Jim,

I have lots of data and a recommendation to give you.

First of all typical costs:

Space $2800
tent 50X30 $1800
Labor Volunteers $0
Meals 8 days x $45 x 5 people= $1800
Rooms, however you get there 5 people x 8 nights x $45 = $1800
Travel 800 miles x 0.51 = $408

Total $8608

Exposure, minimal. Orgs have nothing to sell, of draw people who are looking at planes..


Now you know why we are not at Oshkosh.

Finally, you cannot sublet space. If any two Orgs share a space they will be charged or ejected.

no simple answer. Sorry.


Jim Stephenson
President/CEO
Aero Sports Connection, Inc
269-209-1466

This is not quite the response I was hoping for but it says it all. If this is what we have to look forward to it sounds like its gonna be an expensive undertaking at best and from the response I got from them (ASC) they dont think its productive and Im not sure if we shouldnt approach this from another angle.:typing::usa:
 
Thank you Jim, way to just do it!

Hum, this corresponds to what other experienced members have told us also, except the cost is so much more than we thought.

What do you think guys, sounds like we should spend, even donated, money in a more productive way.

Maybe we could switch the money being donated to fuel and transpiration cost to pay as many members as we can to do a group swarm fly-in for one or two days and give a few rides and/or just hand out CD's or brochures in the ultra-light area?

Good Job Jim!!!
 
I just talked to Nate at Air Gyro and he thought this would be an intresting thing to talk about for next year 2010. We could allow the PRA to have volunteers in our booth to talk to people about the PRA and gyros. We would not rent the space to the PRA so there is no sub lease problem. Air gyro would benifit by the increased exposure. If you are interested talk to Nate at 801.794.3434
 
Mike,

Way to go!!! What a great idea. And very philanthropic of Nate to offer the use of his space, at no charge to the PRA. We would be crazy not to take advantage of this offer.
 
Most excellent, you Rock Michael!
I'll call him tomorrow thank you, unless someone else is already on this?
 
After thinking about this for a while I have an idea that the ASC is destined to stay solvent by remaining in Michigan and not venturing out anymore. I think that if we are going to make our mark in aviation we are going to have to shake the idea that there is no future in ventureing out. I say we bust out and move foreward with our plan. Air Gyro has moved us one step closer to our goal with their offer to allow us to be in their booth.

I do think this is a good idea and would benefit them as well as our cause. I invision in some time in the future the PRA being THE go to organization such as the EAA has become the go to organization for F/W aviators in the experimental field of aviation.

Lets not forget , the EAA started out I believe in Burlington Wisconsin, and then on to Rockford when things got bigger. Who knows where it could go from this point. I do agree that safety is the reason for the often scorned gyro world. But I dont think we need to over do it in the beginning. Let peoople see the stuff and when they show an interest then talk safety. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Perhaps there should be a PR company consulted in how to get the safety point across without sounding like we are a bunch of safety ogres. And didnt a World Class Aerobatic pilot just pass. I bet she lived and breathed safety. It happens people. Safety is good but when the !@#$ hits the fan all the training in the world doesnt help in some cases. Training is where the safety issues should be addressed, and training is of the utmost importance.
 
I for one would love the see KIMO back in this part of the country!!!!! Mentone would be a stellar place to hold those events, flight friendly area, great facilities, good camping area, showers, restrooms, lots of room, centrally located......
 
I do think this is a good idea and would benefit them as well as our cause. I invision in some time in the future the PRA being THE go to organization such as the EAA has become the go to organization for F/W aviators in the experimental field of aviation.
I believe the PRA is the 'Go To' organization for experimental rotorcraft now. If you don't believe it is, then please tell me where the experimental rotorcraft enthusiasts go for their information.
 
If we had a table at Air Gyro that would be great. We still need some flying or static gyros (maybe a couple static gyros placed at Air Gyro to help with their display) to have around the ultralight area. I don't think I can make next year but I'd like to try making 2011.
 
I have not been able to find $45 rooms near Oshkosh during Air Venture.

I love cross endorsement marketing.

I like Nate and Air Gyro seems like a fun company.

I hung out at the South African RAF booth last year and it seemed like they always had a lot to people to talk to.

When American Autogiro and Xenon were there a couple of years ago they seemed to be busy with interested people.

American Autogiro gave a lot of introductory lessons at the airport down the road at Fon du Lac.

Thank you, Vance
 
Living less than an hour from Oshkosh has its benefits:). However I still camp out at the ultralight campsite just south of the ultralight runway. Or if you just buy your admittance ticket you can camp out for free under or next to your machine in the ultralight tiedown area. Even if you trailer your machine up there you can park across the street from the ultralight area and stay with your machine in the ultralight area.
 
Great news guys, Michael Burton has hooked us up!
I just got off the phone with Nate at Airgyro and he has agreed to let us give PRA handouts at the booth for free.

Now all we need is volunteers to man the booth and some travel and expense money if they can't donate it themselves!

I'll be calling him after the first of the year and then again in March once they get the info back on which booth we will be manning.

We owe Airgyro so if you can buy there stuff!!
Nate said to wait until after the 1st of the year to start promoting them for helping us.

Thank you Nate and Thank you Micheal!!!!

PS:
It's won't hurt to ask other companies if we could share a booth with them also?
 
Hi John

Was just going over some of the posts in this thread and was reading about the generous offer by Airgyro. In your post #12 it sounds like Michael has got us in the groove with Airgyro.

Now we will have to see how EAA views this arrangement, because I can tell you they have some very narrow views on some matters especially vendor arrangements.

Tony
 
Hi Folks, :yo:

I work at the EAA as the assistant to the curator of collections at the AirVenture Museum, and I run EAA's "Timeless Voices of Aviation" oral history program. I am a gyro nut, and would love to see an increased gyro presence at AirVenture. Please believe me when I say I have absolutely no sway when it comes to vendors and pricing, but let me put this offer on the table. I live in an EAA-owned rental house just to the south of the museum on Waukau Ave. Waukau is the road the runs direct east to the FAA tower. The house is pretty small, and unfortunately no guest bedrooms. However, the backyard is large, and I'd be willing to let anyone who volunteers to run a PRA booth during AirVenture camp in the backyard, or for that matter park an RV in the front yard. The only requirement is that my wife and I put on a cookout for my volunteers and folks from the Warbird Information Exchange (WIX) forum during the week, and anyone that is camping in the yard is obligated to share in the food and drink.

If that sounds reasonable, just let me know. ([email protected]). It would at least save the organization some pocket change with free camping.

Zack
 
HI Zack

That's one hell of a offer, and I hope there will be someone to take you up on it. If things work out where we might get our own booth space, a custom made tent for PRA display already exist. I don't remember the exact size but it was quite sufficient when it was used there the last time PRA was there. Since I was not sure of PRA's future at Oshkosh I left it in the hands of Carl since he got such a bad shafting, (should any future use be needed). Carl always camped right at the back of the tent and that is still a most desirable place for at least one RV. Now if this letter situation can be resolved. What we need here is communication between two "Statesmen", one from PRA and one from EAA (not two politicians, there's a major difference). Does NuRAF still have a presence at Oshkosh ????

Tony
 
@Zack
We ACCEPT!!!!!!!!!
Wow, I love you people! So many trying to help make the world a little better place and
It's a party, it's a party, it's a party!
Thank you Zack, you rock!!!!

I'll be contacting you by email tomorrow.

@Tony and All
I'll be discussing our tactics with Nate in January. We aren't actually there promoting PRA directly. The rules clearly do say we can't share a booth.

So, we're there helping Nate staff his Airgyro booth and he happens to be handing our PRA promotional and answering questions regarding rotorcraft this year. That's our excuse and were sticking to it. Even after we get kicked out! But what a story we'll have and I've been kicked out of better countries anyway!

Are we laughing?

Ok, Ok, it is very weak but if we don't abuse it and we don't repeat pointing out how unstable one of the gyro manufactures with a booth there by name just ask everyone to read the info on the CD regarding stability before you buy one?

Nate has offered to provide safty and training information and it so happens PRA is a perfect solution for him and his customers for folks to learn everything they need to know and were creating promotional material for that purpose now.

Also we can help each other should volunteers want to see the show, or for lunch breaks, and I've offer that our volunteers will hand out and watch the booth for them.

So folks, come on, from now on we SAY WE ARE HELPING Nate man the Airgyro booth because PRA is not manning a booth there in anyway.

Oh and the commando swarm of rotorcarft that just so happen to ALL fly in at the same time too, just a coincidence? ... My life is funny how things just seem to work out that way!
 
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John

Love your enthusiasm but must rain on the parade just a little, ANYONE there talking about stability will literally have to be trained to be on guard, because "that company" will send shill's around asking very explicit questions about there gyro and what "you" think about this specific gyro. This is not a speculation, I had it happen exactly that way to me when I worked the booth. However I was expecting it and was prepared for it and told the "unidentified" person, (no name tag, no company logo's) that I would remove my PRA cap and step outside the tent, and speak as an individual not as a PRA representative and tell him exactly my view and opinion of this craft. Don't know if he sprained an ankle while leaving but vanished like a bullet. Don't know about the new company tactics.

Tony
 
John

Don't know about the "comando" swarm of gyro's all landing at once, that would sure be a fabulous show, but anyone considering flying a gyro out of the ultralight area should sure talk to some of those who have done it. this field is rough as a cobb or at least it used to be. It took Ron Heron a lot of contact work to get EAA to let him taxi to the hard surface and take off with the "real airplanes". Remember the thread about rotor flap on take off and loss of lift each time they "flex"??

Tony
 
Thank you Tony for the specific tactic's!
We will train our staff (If it's not a stable machine) to only answer something like:

(BIG SMILE, now)

I'm sorry PRA has been kicked-out of event's like this for only sharing a volunteers personal opinion. I know it is hard to beleive in America, but there you have reality.
If you join PRA we do have a library that will teach you how to tell whether it's stable rotorcraft for yourself and there is Roraryforum.com where you can ask for opinions.
That's what PRA really does. Provides you the latest scientific information so you can make your own informed opinion. Would you like to join? (Now hand them an application and pin)
(BIG SMILE, now)
 
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Tent

Tent

Tony

I have your tent stored ready for whatever you want to do with it. I believe there is a icechest and some magazine racks.

We are planning on flying the "Iowa Airforce" to Oshkosh next year. That will be five Carlanaters. Hope we can get more.

Carl
 
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