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#1
10-30-2012, 04:42 PM
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Need help on deciding to buy a kit or purchase gyro
I am new to this, need some input on what route to take into getting into this hobby. I just got into popcorn over the summer and got bitten by the flying bug. I would love to by the caladiums however way out of my price range. What route is the best and safest way to go a kit, or to build one myself with some plans or to buy a ready to fly? There was a guy in my area that built one but died because of something that should have been caught over checklist. So any thoughts or pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
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#2
10-30-2012, 06:08 PM
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I would have to say buy one that flies already.
I am wishing I would have if I had it all to do over again. Its torture to spend all the money on training and think about wanting to fly everyday then having to walk by my gyro that is in the shop in pieces.
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#3
10-30-2012, 07:44 PM
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Dan, welcome to the forum!
It is a fact that most used gyros sell for less than they cost to build. That suggests that if you find something close to what you want on the used market, buying it could make sense. If you're a newcomer, however, you might want to stick with proven kits which have plenty of examples flying. Buying a one-of-a-kind homebuilt machine could leave you without good documentation, and other gyro enthusiasts may have trouble helping you. If you do buy used, be sure and do at least a partial tear-down to look for hidden wear and damage. Some sellers may have slightly bent tubes or oval bolt holes under cheek plates and not even realize it. You don't want to find out the had way. Last edited by PW_Plack; 10-30-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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#5
10-30-2012, 08:57 PM
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Dan,
You from Maumee, Ohio? BarryK
__________________
BarryK
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#7
10-31-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Asking that kind of question on the forum can be like chumming for sharks in the middle of a feeding frenzy. Everyone has their own favorite brand and there is a lot of brand loyalty out there, that those kind of questions often turn in to a "which is better Ford or Chevy" kind of discussion? But if you will take a little time and start doing some research you will quickly figure out for yourself what are the more modern and more stable designs. While I hate to talk negative about any Gyro, there are some machines out there that are poor designs and many that are a custom modification of an otherwise establsihed model. Doing that kind of stuff is honestly better left to the guys with lots of experience and know how, as it carries a level of risk that a new person just shouldn't be involved with. As a beginner, you will be way better off to stick with a popular and proven machine. If money is really tight you can usually buy a used machine cheaper than you can build your own, but if you can afford just a little bit more, you can choose exactly what you want and build it yourself so you are absolutely sure of the quality of the build and you know what you have. There are a lot of advanatges of building your own machine but it isn't the quickest way to get started and it isn't the cheapest way to get started. If money is really tight then you need to stay focused on "light" and "simple". The more you start adding things the more expensive it gets (in a hurry). Single place is way less expensive than two place and open frame will be less expensive than partially enclosed or an enclosed model. Don't be afraid to start off with something that is less than the ideal thing you have been dreaming about, and allow yourself time to work up to a nicer model as time goes on. Above all, if you find a deal that seems "too good to be true", it's because it isn't what you think it is. Older machines, often have problems (just like buying an older vehicle) and buying someone's uinfinished project can turn into a big money pit if you don't really know what you are doing. My advise would be take some time to study the market and get to know the players, also join a local PRA group and make friends with people that are already doing it. Find someone that is knowledgeable and get them to help guide you through the process of getting a Gyro. You still will have to deal with each person's own personal likes and prejudices, but they can really help keep you from making some expensive mistakes. The more people you talk to and get involved as mentors the more information you will have to sort through and decide what you agree with and what to follow. This is really an exciting part of the journey so don't rush it. Take your time and learn as much as you can, and enjoy the journey! Best of luck!
__________________
Doug Barker - Layton, UT. Butterfly Dealer Last edited by GyroDoug; 10-31-2012 at 03:15 PM.
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#8
10-31-2012, 05:41 PM
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Doug thanks for the reply. I know what you mean about brands, was like that in my jetski and shifter kart days. I am a total noobie here for gyro, so I have been reading the forums, however have no idea what is well established and what isn't. That is where I am looking for some guidance.
Looking around seems like 5k to 90k can get you going. I am just looking for something that will be reliable and safe. Safety is the main thing. Matt and Barry yes I live in Maureen. Forgot who is in Lima but I do have a customer down there, so good to know some people with gyros near by. If your open to letting me check them out and give me some info(what to look for) that would be greatly appreciated. I've been watching some videos and the gyros look like a lot of fun. I do have some questions tho on handling. Looks like you definitely have to keep at least one hand on the yoke or steering bar.
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#9
10-31-2012, 06:19 PM
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A couple of year ago I was in your shoes. Reading the forums but really looking for someone to tell me what to stay away from. I got that answer by contacting one of the knowledgeable people here directly. He gave me really good advice and by watching the For Sale ads, I saw a kit for sale at a good price. It had been purchased, but not put together. I did not want someone's partially constructed gyro. I stayed with the major kit manufactures who were successful and still in business.
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#11
10-31-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
I have done several redesign/rebuilds, including the most crash-worthy ELSA gyrocopter built to date. I can verify this as I am the crash test dummy from Hamtramck Detroit, and went out and proved this astounding claim for all the world to read about several years ago. in my opinion: You can buy a flying gyro from a reliable source here, as we all know each other and will call out anything that we don't like about something. That's wot we do. like me. I am not always right, but when i am not right, see rule number one. * * * * * Get good training, and have your CFI look over your purchase when you are ready to fly it. Bring it to Mentone or Bensen Days, whichever is closer, and engage as many gyro builders as you can possibly manage to look it over and talk things over with you. Get it certificated if it is not registered. That is easy to do, we will get you there if you need help. Then go fly the hell out of it, and complete your life - go onwards, and upwards! These are exactly the steps I took, and I will never regret a single bit of it. This is, by far, the safest, ThE best, the cheapest, and the fastest way to get into the air and have an amazing adventure up there. You are not missing anything by not building your first gyrocopter, and, believe me, you will get plenty of mechanical & build time under your belt following this chain of events. Remember: The most expensive parts are the motor, redrive, rotor and prop - in that order. You cannot build a gyro from scratch as cheaply as you can build a safe, suitable, flying rotorcraft. Next: Build time can be years. Look at my "simple" Yamaha conversion. HahA! And that is only a motor installation on a previously fully-functional Air Command! Tell you what, if I ever go broke I'll sell you some of my stuff, but until then...Good luck and get a nice, used gyro HERE. You should be able to pick up a decent single for $7k. From there, the sky's the limit, depending on what you want 
__________________
NWA ............{*^*}........... N962GT ONWARDS and UPWARDS!  World Famous Gerg Last edited by NoWingsAttached; 10-31-2012 at 07:37 PM.
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#12
10-31-2012, 07:39 PM
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Oh, n BTW. Isn't Maumee in Michigan? Or is the one you are from in WI?
__________________
NWA ............{*^*}........... N962GT ONWARDS and UPWARDS! World Famous Gerg Last edited by NoWingsAttached; 10-31-2012 at 07:43 PM.
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#13
10-31-2012, 08:28 PM
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The challenge with saying getting into a reasonable used Gyro will cost you $XXX.XX is that we all have different standards on what we consider reasonable. While there are used Gyros that you can buy down in the $5K to $10K range, they are typically going to be older models that are (in my opinion) less stable and are just plain older. Heck I bought an old Bensen Gyro for $500 (without an engine or rotors). I had another one given to me for free. It had never been flown, just stored in someones garage, so it was technically like new (from a use standpoint) however the first time I rolled it down the ramp to unload it from my trailer the front wheel fell off. The bearing had just desintegrated over time and it fell apart. Is that the kind of machine you want to go up in the air with and bet your life on? I don't! So while there are lots of deals out there for less money, you almost always get what you pay for and you are going to be buying a machine that will need time and money put into it to make it airworthy.
Personally, I believe you shuold plan on spending between $10K and $15K for a "reasonable" used, open frame, single place gyro of a more modern and stable design. I hate to start naming names because it always opens the door for someone to be offended but here is a short list of manufactures (listed alphabetically) that I would consider buying a used machine of theirs - Air Command, Aviomania, Butterfly, Dominator, Sport Copter. If you are willing to live with a basic light machine, with a 2 stroke Rotax engine, this is a reasonable range to try to hit. You also need to budget another $5K to get training. You may be able to do it for less than that depending on how close you can find a Gyro CFI and how quick you learn, but the reality is you really should budget that much. So if you don't have that kind of money to invest into getting into this sport, then start saving your money and spend your time learnimg more about the sport and what you want while you put the money together. If you can borrow it and are willing to go into debt for your chosen recreational habit them more power to you, you can get started earlier. If you are willing to go into a partnership with another Rotorcraft enthusiast and share expenses, that can bring the costs down substantially. But if you try to get into it on the cheap and you buy a project that isn't airworthy, because it was a "great deal", you just may never fly it and may spend a whole lot of money chasing a dream that isn't ever going to happen. Deciding to get started flying a Gyroplane is a Major decision and one that should be made with a clear understanding of the implications and I believe it is critical to have realistic expectations if you want to be able to acheive your goal. I think it is definately worth doing but you are going to be risking your life each time you go up in the air and I think it is simply craze to not take that seriously and at least try to stack the odds in your favor. Done right this is a sport that can be done very safely. Done wrong it is a disaster waiting to happen with your life being gambled each time you go up. I don't say that to scare people away but I do hope that will get people to take a serious look at the risks they are taking and hopefully get people to be willing to invest a little more to insure they live long enough to enjoy the sport.
__________________
Doug Barker - Layton, UT. Butterfly Dealer
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#15
11-01-2012, 06:16 AM
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Well said Doug (and everyone else). I have budgeted $5k for training and it will probably go well beyond that since I am flying down to my instructor. Raw costs are running about $300/hr right now as my schedule does not permit large chunks of training per each flight down. That may have to change. However, it is fun and my life is worth every penny. I wouldn't do it any other way. I have had a running and airworthy gyro parked and pickled for two years and It will stay there until my instructor says otherwise. I also agree with Doug that a realistic gyro price will add up in the end to at least $10k and up to $15k for a good modern and safe USED gyro.
Bob
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