Buying an MTO Sport

[villa]

Is $34000.00 a reasonable price for a 2007 Sparrow 90 hrs,trailer,headsets?

[Learjet]

Originally Posted by CLS447

The Magni has been out for quite a while....... Why would one choose an MTO over a Magni ?

This is a serious question, I am curious.

Both are great gyros and in my mind it comes down to personal preferences, price - and (as Vance alludes to) manufacturer representation and local aftermarket support is important.

When I was first looking at gyros I found it really hard to choose between the popular Magni M16 and new on the market MT-03.

I preferred the better attention to detail, quality finishes, lighter empty weight (carbon fibre nacelle) and price tag of the MT-03.

What swung my decision in favor of the Magni however, was their "tried and tested" safety record. I simply didn't want to be a test-dummy customer for a new-to-market MT-O3 and I didn't (and still don't) like stainless-steel in a high-vibration application - particularly when the manufacturer doesn't divulge the grade of s/s is used in the airframe...

But that was years ago, the MTO gyros have proved themselves and withstood the test of time and I think these days whether someone buys an MTO or a Magni gyro they'll be happy with their decision either way.

And anyway, the sky is the same colour blue for both...

[jakelantx]

I am glad to read about some of your decision process. I was a little worried about the material and the lack of AN or MS hardware. I also had concerns about failures documented in the rotor blades but I also believe the pre-me test dummies have proven the design sound.

Originally Posted by Learjet

Both are great gyros and in my mind it comes down to personal preferences, price - and (as Vance alludes to) manufacturer representation and local aftermarket support is important.

When I was first looking at gyros I found it really hard to choose between the popular Magni M16 and new on the market MT-03.

I preferred the better attention to detail, quality finishes, lighter empty weight (carbon fibre nacelle) and price tag of the MT-03.

What swung my decision in favor of the Magni however, was their "tried and tested" safety record. I simply didn't want to be a test-dummy customer for a new-to-market MT-O3 and I didn't (and still don't) like stainless-steel in a high-vibration application - particularly when the manufacturer doesn't divulge the grade of s/s is used in the airframe...

But that was years ago, the MTO gyros have proved themselves and withstood the test of time and I think these days whether someone buys an MTO or a Magni gyro they'll be happy with their decision either way.

And anyway, the sky is the same colour blue for both...

[jakelantx]

Originally Posted by Texasautogyro

I just hit 600 hrs today and added one more solo. Wow what a week.

If you get rained out in Anahuac come and train me more! I'm anxious to learn and have been reading the flight manual.

[Texasautogyro]

If I did that I might not have a wife. I had not seen her for almost 3 weeks untill today. I hope we do not have a rain out!

[Gyro_Kai]

I also had concerns about failures documented in the rotor blades but I also believe the pre-me test dummies have proven the design sound.

You are welcome . The rotor blade-problems have allegedly been caused by very abrupt maneuvers, forcing strong loads on the rotor suddenly, without allowing it to speed up in time, thus the blades coned more.

I have not heard of any recent occurrences, though.

Kai.

[HydroGyroNut]

Anyone out there has any knowledge about the Thrustline in an MTO sport-Center, high or low. Just wondering. My experience on one was a pleasant stable experience but the thrustline issus never came up?? It seems to me from pictures its more center line thrust.

[Vance]

Originally Posted by Victor

Anyone out there has any knowledge about the Thrustline in an MTO sport-Center, high or low. Just wondering. My experience on one was a pleasant stable experience but the thrustline issus never came up?? It seems to me from pictures its more center line thrust.

It would be helpful if you would fill out your profile.

In my opinion based on the way the MTO sport flies it is a high thrust line gyroplane.

I have done nothing to verify this or quantify how much high thrust line.

Why do you ask?

Thank you, Vance

[HydroGyroNut]

Dear Vance, thanks for the response. I ask bcos of curiosity. Saw videos online of an unrecoverable buntover and tumble. Horrible! I'm fully aware that the MTO is well engineered. I have flown it and it exhibited no tendency of pitching the nose down or up, when power is applied. From its profile pictures the thrustline seems like CLT. Stability of a gyro does indeed encompass several factors, including the prop thrust line. Others are pitch inertia of the gyro, locations of the horizontal stabilzer, realtionship of the Center of pressure to the CG, and most importantly the location of the rotor force line in relation to the CG. I'm fully aware these factors balance each other and engineers indeed did a good job with the MTO, since there are 100s flying safely around the world, safely. My decision to buy one would not change even if it were a high thrust line(that would be a surprise). For now, allow me to keep my profile "as is" since I'm still classified as a wannabe, with no machine to fly yet. After my purchase and build, I will post some pics and then you can officially welcome me after my profile is filled out. Planning to put mine on floats , and yes indeed, will be going for the rotax 914, since will need more power.For now, fly safe everyone...

[scraejtp]

I flew with Desmon in Anahuac, Tx last weekend. First flight in a gyro and it was a blast.

I am planning on starting flight instruction next month, but a new MTO Sport is a little pricey for me right now.

[HydroGyroNut]

Originally Posted by jakelantx

I flew to Maryland and built the MTO Sport August 26-31. I shipped it back to Texas using U-Ship and it will be here tomorrow. Desmon Butts is going to give me 10 hours dual instruction as part of the sale agreement and I hope I will be ready to start flying off my 40 hours after that. I intend to post my build pictures. It still has to be airworthiness certified. That was supposed to happen at Maryland but when the DAR arrived to do the inspection we learned that I would have to fly off the40 hours in Maryland so I decided to have it certified here by Bob Stark in Olney, TX a founding member or my PRA Chapter, Texas Rotorcraft Association.

Dear Jake,

Currently in the process of putting together a financial package for the MTO. My concerns are about the DAR examination. I intend to place my order and head to the florida base for the build.
Is it always the case that the DAR restricts the 40hr test-fly period to the area of the build? That is kind of retarded considering most people travel great distances to do this and 40hrs extra adds up to alot of additional expense away from home.. Just like you, I will not be able to fly off the 40 hrs away from home, and I sure would like a more experienced MTO instructor flying my fresh build prior to me, and I will have to leave with the machine soon after the build.
Can the instructor test-fly the machine immediately after the build PRIOR to the DAR examination?
Do u know why this restriction? Another restrictive and complicating factor to deal with as though the builder does not have a right to decide where he wants to test -fly his machine. This should be at the sole discretion of the builder and NOT the DAR.
How do I get to find a DAR in my area-Pensacola-Florida, just in case i run into the same problem? Any contacts would be appreciated. I hope your instruction with Desmond is going well and hopefully I will be able to get a few hrs with him in the future, since I hear he is an excellent teacher.

[JAL]

I own an MT03 and I like it. It is a simple machine to maintain but that can be said for just about all tandem open/semi-open frame gyros I think.

I do not have experience in flying other types of gyros so I am not the one to make comparisons or statements on how good of gyro it is other than I have had no problems with mine and I have confidence that I can maintain it in a safe flying condition.

I am not particularly mechanically minded so that was an important factor for me and I just love how easy it is to inspect just about everything visually and get access to just about everything when making repairs.

The only thing that is a little painful is getting behind the instrument panel because you have to remove many screws (although it isn't that bad) and also to get access down in the front area of the pod where the rudder pedals are. An inspection hatch that opens on the nose pod would be a great idea and I think a few people have done just that. It would be a simple job for anyone who knows what they are doing.

We have attempted to hang test it but it got a little bit to heavy (a bit to dangerous) when we tried to balance two 100kg passengers and full fuel. I am hoping with the testing we did that we will have some useful information that might at least indicate the thrust line at lower weights and use this data to extrapolate to determine a theoretical thrust line offset at max weight.

With just about all things mechanical, it is always not the best design or manufactured model that sells the best. The MTO is like this, I think its popularity is in its ability to offer a set of compromises. It carry's a lot weight, has good endurance, broad speed range, handles well and reasonable easy maintenance. In each of the categories it is not the best but across of them it offers a nice compromise.

Furthermore you do have peace of mind that there are now over thousand of them flying which means the factory makes good money just in parts support indicating it will be a going concern for many years to come.

In addition any design flaws or material flaws will be recognized sooner and rectified resulting in the design to reach a nice stage of maturity where all the weaknesses are discovered and operators become aware of them and take steps to mitigate these design flaws.

The feedback loop is then completed as more are flying then more of them sell as it the gyro that is seen the most by potential new buyers. As long as Auto-gyro stay tuned to their customers and constantly making sure that they keep maturing the model and designing out all the flaws that are encountered by their customers it will just get better for them.

[GyrOZprey]

Originally Posted by Victor

Is it always the case that the DAR restricts the 40hr test-fly period to the area of the build? That is kind of retarded considering most people travel great distances to do this and 40hrs extra adds up to alot of additional expense away from home.. Just like you, I will not be able to fly off the 40 hrs away from home, I hope your instruction with Desmond is going well and hopefully I will be able to get a few hrs with him in the future, since I hear he is an excellent teacher.

Just my 2cents worth from my experience...... My Aurora Butterfly got it's airworthy inspection from DAR Bob Stark @ Olney TX & was flown initially by Larry to test & tweak controls & prop pitch @ Bridgeport ... where I started my first hours of taxiing & balancing-on-the mains ... My Operating limitations dictated the initial Phase I fly-off area in a 5 mile radius of KXBP .... when we brought OZ'rora home to Newton KS I took my paperwork to our local FSDO in Wichita & the lovely staff there were super helpful & transferred the remaining Phase I time to a 40 mile radius around KEWK. Pretty simple it seems!

[HydroGyroNut]

Hi Chris,

That is really good news. This seems like a suitable solution to the problem.
I will look into that alternative. Thank you very much.
Victor
In my eyes, the wind powered gyro rotor is a true a wonder. Everone knows how a chopper operates. Few people I know, knew what a gyro was,and absolutely everyone i've met is amazed at how simply and cost effectively it operates. Gyros Rule!![/FONT]

[Rusty Russell]

JAL said it for me...
[I]With just about all things mechanical, it is always not the best design or manufactured model that sells the best. The MTO is like this, I think its popularity is in its ability to offer a set of compromises. It carry's a lot weight, has good endurance, broad speed range, handles well and reasonable easy maintenance. In each of the categories it is not the best but across of them it offers a nice compromise.

Its like buying a car... The MTO is like a modern sedan! Not a sports car.. nor a truck! I love taking folks up and sharing the experience... and feeling perfectly safe.