Bullet Proof Engines?

[WHY]

As long as there is a good supply of "bullet heads" you will never have a totally "bullet proof" engine.

Tony

[Udi]

Originally Posted by fara

2000 hours of operation on a light aircraft at light aircraft average speed amount to close to 1.8 million miles in your car. Try taking your car engine to that number sometime.

Are you saying that a light aircraft flies 900 miles per hour??? 180 thousand miles at 90MPH is more like it. But your point is valid Fara - light planes cover great distances between overhauls.

Udi

[Udi]

Originally Posted by fara

One of my students just passed away in his Just aircraft accident going down into the woods due issues flying with a Honda FIT car engine conversion

Fara - Do you have more information on this? Any information would be valuable as people are looking for new gyro engines all the time.

Udi

[GyroDel]

The one thing not mentioned as why an engine in an aircraft doesn’t last as long. Even the automotive engines that are transplanted into aircraft do not hold up like they did in the car.

The aircraft has the same problem as the boat. If the craft is moving the engine is under load and stays under load until it is at idle. If you reduce the aircraft throttle back to relieve the load on it. It loses altitude and the only way to get it the altitude back is under load to climb.

Glider tows, banner towing or jump planes see more engine problems because they are some of the most abused engines in aviation. More load towing and jump planes are packed full and redlined to get the jumpers up as fast as they can so the plane can return as fast as it can to take the next load up.

Not warming up engines properly, not allowing it to cool after landing before shutting it off, shock cooling, maintenance, running a full power when not needed, and a lot more reasons like these are not problems with engines. They are problems of pilots and owners, it's way to easy to blame the engine and admit that we caused the problems usually by being in a hurry.

[fara]

Originally Posted by Udi

Are you saying that a light aircraft flies 900 miles per hour??? 180 thousand miles at 90MPH is more like it. But your point is valid Fara - light planes cover great distances between overhauls.

Udi

You are right, miscalculated. But I was also considering that a car engine is running at 20% power continuously and aircraft engines are running at 75 to 80% power continuously. Even so, it would be about 700,000 miles.

But the emphasis of the point is the same.

[fara]

Originally Posted by Udi

Fara - Do you have more information on this? Any information would be valuable as people are looking for new gyro engines all the time.

Udi

I hate to speculate on this but I would stick with proven engines if it was my life on the line. Its hard enough designing a new aircraft of any kind then to become a test case for a newer engine. That is a problem with new engine development in general, lawsuits will abound on the way to getting it as bullet proof as possible which means the engine company will go out of business or will become big with a high priced engine.

Eric Tucker and Christian once told me that about 14% of Rotax's revenue goes into defending against lawsuits and every one of us is paying for that every time we buy a Rotax.

[birdy]

14% of Rotax's revenue goes into defending against lawsuits
Yeh, and the modern "sue happy" civilisatuion wunders why things are so expencive.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by birdy

14% of Rotax's revenue goes into defending against lawsuits
Yeh, and the modern "sue happy" civilisatuion wunders why things are so expencive.

That is sad! Mitch mate says he is under fire sometimes. I thought he was joking at the time. I can't image shells in my azz when I'm trying to relax.

[Fly Army]

Originally Posted by birdy

14% of Rotax's revenue goes into defending against lawsuits
Yeh, and the modern "sue happy" civilisatuion wunders why things are so expencive.

I can't speak for you neck of the woods Birdy but in America we need to STOP electing lawyers to run goverment. Lawyers can't run anything.

[hillberg]

Damn we allready got one in the White House.

[birdy]

In my neck of the woods Fly, people speak the word sue, as it turns out, on their last breath.

Laws are made up by lawyers,........ for lawyers.

Rite or rong av got jac**** to do with it.

A good lawyer looks the same as a good camel.

[Ronnie328]

Originally Posted by hillberg

Damn we allready got one in the White House.

And 300 of 'em in congress. Neil DeGrasse Tyson has a pretty interesting quote where he recounts most of the members of congress as lawyers then asks, "Where are the scientists and the engineers? What about the rest of life?"

[rfsolutions]

The major difference between aircraft engines and automotive conversions is the lack of redundant systems on the automotive conversions. I've had 4 unscheduled landings with automotive conversions and none of them involved a long block failure. There are simply too many single point failures to be had in most automotive conversions.

I've seen some pretty impressive aluminum v8 Chevy conversions with redundant systems and they're on par with the reliability of a Lycoming or continental and cheaper to operate. The weight to HP isn't bad either. But..they're not cheap! Like somebody already said, you get what you pay for.

these guys have been doing a great job for quite awhile. The Seabees perform better with the conversion than the Franklin.

http://www.v8seabee.com/

[Jason O]

Originally Posted by rfsolutions

The major difference between aircraft engines and automotive conversions is the lack of redundant systems on the automotive conversions. I've had 4 unscheduled landings with automotive conversions and none of them involved a long block failure. There are simply too many single point failures to be had in most automotive conversions.

I've seen some pretty impressive aluminum v8 Chevy conversions with redundant systems and they're on par with the reliability of a Lycoming or continental and cheaper to operate. The weight to HP isn't bad either. But..they're not cheap! Like somebody already said, you get what you pay for.

these guys have been doing a great job for quite awhile. The Seabees perform better with the conversion than the Franklin.

http://www.v8seabee.com/

Other than ignition, what redundant systems are there on aircraft engines?

[birdy]

on the 912, fuel pumps, throttle linkages, 2 carbs, cooling systms, ignitions,.......... .
The only non redundent part on me ferel is the nut on the stick.