If you had 50K in the bank how would you approach a helo career?

[Rotortramp]

And while on the same note, if you had $0-$1000 in the bank how would you approach your helo career assuming 0 time?

[choppergabor]

Invest it into stocks! There is no helo carrier anymore. Get your private license and build a gyro enjoy flying. Or buddy up with someone who knows someone who has a helicopter operation business. Don't rely on CFI time building. Companies WILL NOT consider your CFI time! I know...it's not fair.....but that is how it is nowadays. High time pilots from the Nam era still rule the market and they will get the first shot at any opening. Building turbine time is almost impossible right now. Sorry to give it to you raw like this but I think I serve you better this way. Still I hope you make it if you set your hearth on it! Good luck,

[Rotortramp]

Originally Posted by choppergabor

High time pilots from the Nam era still rule the market and they will get the first shot at any opening.

But they will be retiring soon!!

Unfortunately (haha) I'm pretty well set on flying as a career, and I'm looking to explore the "best" options to achieve it. I'd like to see if the avoidance of debt, and saving up enough money before hand poses any advantages to QOL and/or flexibility that I haven't thought of. I am somewhat on the fence between choosing the fixed wing route (I have 100 hours FW) or RW as a career, but the actual jobs and schedules seem to be more appealing for rotors. I'm not sure if the new 1500 rule has been implemented yet for airlines, but that will put fixed wing relatively on par with helos in terms of landing that first year first officer 20,000 a year job.

[choppergabor]

Originally Posted by Rotortramp

But they will be retiring soon!!

Yes they told me that in 2005 when I became a commercial pilot.....aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 7 years later and 1700 hours later still nuttin'!!! But hey don't let me discourage you please. Flight schools need to make money too. So they will tell you just how great you'll do in this industry. Talk to the ones who actually are HUNTING for jobs.

[choppergabor]

Darren I am a CFI of course Oh thanks that video turned out fantastic

[Rotortramp]

Originally Posted by choppergabor

Yes they told me that in 2005 when I became a commercial pilot.....aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 7 years later and 1700 hours later still nuttin'!!! But hey don't let me discourage you please. Flight schools need to make money too. So they will tell you just how great you'll do in this industry. Talk to the ones who actually are HUNTING for jobs.

That's why I love these forums so much. For the most part you can get the real sense of the flying industry. I visit the fixed wing side of things from time to time and they are hurting as well

[Rotor Rooter]

Originally Posted by Rotortramp

If you had 50K in the bank how would you approach a helo career??

By assessing the probable future in conjunction with the emotional desire.

A very large percentage of future VTOL in-flight activities will be done by remote piloting and autonomous piloting. Someone mentioned that the US armed services all ready has 10,000 UAVs.

In a related subject, many countries with aging populations are bring in immigrants. However, Japan with its desire to keep the country Japanese, is working toward supplementing its low birthrate by developing robotics.
Japan's elderly drive demand for care-giving robots


Dave

[choppergabor]

Originally Posted by Rotortramp

That's why I love these forums so much. For the most part you can get the real sense of the flying industry. I visit the fixed wing side of things from time to time and they are hurting as well

I know how you feel right now. Unfortunately Oil productions are down due to domestic drilling bans plus technology now allows them to drill in several different directions from one single rig so there isn't a whole lot being installed right now.
Civilian helicopter flying is almost unheard of and executive flying is a crime nowadays last I have heard.
I have colleagues I used to teach with and students who have sacrificed all just to fly..... tough! Not impossible....but tough. 50K won't take you too far. But it's probably doable. Mine was 72 K from 0 to instrument rated CFI. Passed on first try every time and flew twice a day. In 7 months I was done! If I had to start over again I would probably find a Schweizer 300 used one, and buy it start the payment meanwhile line up a CFI who will push me through in a few months. After I am done sell the damn thing and that would be probably the cheapest way to go rather than pay 300 bux per hour for instruction. Just my $.02

[Rotortramp]

Originally Posted by choppergabor

I know how you feel right now. Unfortunately Oil productions are down due to domestic drilling bans plus technology now allows them to drill in several different directions from one single rig so there isn't a whole lot being installed right now.
Civilian helicopter flying is almost unheard of and executive flying is a crime nowadays last I have heard.
I have colleagues I used to teach with and students who have sacrificed all just to fly..... tough! Not impossible....but tough. 50K won't take you too far. But it's probably doable. Mine was 72 K from 0 to instrument rated CFI. Passed on first try every time and flew twice a day. In 7 months I was done! If I had to start over again I would probably find a Schweizer 300 used one, and buy it start the payment meanwhile line up a CFI who will push me through in a few months. After I am done sell the damn thing and that would be probably the cheapest way to go rather than pay 300 bux per hour for instruction. Just my $.02

Thanks!

My main concern after determining the funding would be that first job as an instructor. Out of 4 CFI students I'm sure 1 will be offered the job will leaving 3 (probably equally as capable) low time CFI's without enough experience to move laterally to another job. There are some schools offering "guaranteed" CFI jobs (although require money to reserve a slot ) and the ever popular Boatpix/Helicopter Academy to build time. However I'm not sure if this is digging myself into a hole that the industry does not look highly of...

[choppergabor]

Originally Posted by Rotortramp

Thanks!

My main concern after determining the funding would be that first job as an instructor. Out of 4 CFI students I'm sure 1 will be offered the job will leaving 3 (probably equally as capable) low time CFI's without enough experience to move laterally to another job. There are some schools offering "guaranteed" CFI jobs (although require money to reserve a slot ) and the ever popular Boatpix/Helicopter Academy to build time. However I'm not sure if this is digging myself into a hole that the industry does not look highly of...

I really hate to see you going through this. That investment thing doesn't sound that bad now to you huh? I have seen it. The school will employ you just to keep their word (if they are at least that honest) and will let you work until the next batch comes up. Pretty quickly .....so guess what? They were promised jobs too. Now comes the fight fro students, and the trying to mess you up behind your back. Finally you'll have enough of it and you'll leave on your own. Sad state the industry is right now. As I said now the CFI hours are not even counted since they claim "you only ride and not fly during instruction" WOW!!! Every oil job needs around 1500 hours plus turbine and instrument ticket is a plus (for insurance purposes). The medivac ones are 3000-3500 with 1000 hours turbine minimum plus instrument. The turbine will kill you! I wish I could say things that are more rosy..............

[pallen_001]

I don't want to stir anything up here but I have to respectfully disagree with Gabor.

I have been flying for almost 30 years now and have made my living flying helicopters for the last 20. I have also owned my own flight school and have launched many people on helicopter careers. I am an ATP, CFI, and CFII Helicopter. In my career I have been a flight instructor, Cheif pilot, done tours, flown off-shore oil, done longline and vertical referance, done utility work, EMS... almost everything you can do in helicopters except police and fire-fighting. I have 14 different helicopter types in my logbook.

My advice: Learn to fly in a Robinson. I know there are those who hate them but I have a couple thousand hours in them and I don't have a problem with them. The reason I say get Robinson time is you will need to build time somehow. Whether you rent, do flight instructions, photo, aerial survey, whatever, chances are your first job will be in a robinson. Without prior Robinson time, you eliminate about 80% of your potential job market. Once you build about 500 hours, start sending out resume's. I know everyone in the industry says they want 1500-2000 hours but the reality is, when they need someone to fill a slot fast, they look at whatever resume's they have on their desk. Make a list of who you have sent them to and contact their Cheif pilot to make sure he received it. Then check back every 6 months or so. they like to hire people they know are serious. Over half of my students ended up with jobs before 1500 hours. About 10 years ago when I worked for ERA helicopters, they hired several co-pilots at 500 hours total time, with no turbine time to fly as offshore co-pilots in the Bell 212 and 412.

Vietnam pilots did rule the roost for a long time, and I used to fly with a lot of them however, since I left ERA Helicopters, I have not flown with a single vietnam era pilot. The youngest someone who flew in Vietnam could be is about 60. Not many left still flying.

FLying helicopters has been a GREAT career. I have been all over the world, done and seen things I still can't beleive, and lately, have made really good money doing it. If you want to fly, don't listen to the nay-sayers. They almost talked me out of flying several times in the early years. Understand it will be a long hard road, but a very rewarding one. If you have the money, put it on the table and fly. If you don't, fly as much as you can. I have had several students that took a loooong time to get their ratings with minimum wage jobs, but they made it.

Gabor, please don't take this as anything more than just my opinion based on my experiences, I have followed your build for some time now and would really like to meet you someday. There is absolutely no disrespect intended here.

Peter Allen

[Rotortramp]

Originally Posted by pallen_001

I have been flying for almost 30 years now and have made my living flying helicopters for the last 20. I have also owned my own flight school and have launched many people on helicopter careers. I am an ATP, CFI, and CFII Helicopter. In my career I have been a flight instructor, Cheif pilot, done tours, flown off-shore oil, done longline and vertical referance, done utility work, EMS... almost everything you can do in helicopters except police and fire-fighting. I have 14 different helicopter types in my logbook.

...

FLying helicopters has been a GREAT career. I have been all over the world, done and seen things I still can't beleive, and lately, have made really good money doing it. If you want to fly, don't listen to the nay-sayers. They almost talked me out of flying several times in the early years. Understand it will be a long hard road, but a very rewarding one. If you have the money, put it on the table and fly. If you don't, fly as much as you can. I have had several students that took a loooong time to get their ratings with minimum wage jobs, but they made it.

...


Peter Allen

Well I appreciate both sides of the coin of course!

I'm having a difficult time getting my attitude in the right place (as you mentioned there are tons talking me out of it). Understandingly its hard work to get to the turbine jobs, but I just worry that the plan may have a massive void between the hours of 200-500. 500 time jobs I'm sure are out there to instruct, but its that 300 hour gap that worries me if my local flight school has no open instructor slots.

I'm also considering staying with fixed wing as it seems more job oriented, but my true passion seems to reside with helicopters and I really would like to pursue that.

Just out of curiosity what is your opinion on Helicopter Academy as a way to mitigate this risk?

[500e]

Keep it there

[choppergabor]

Originally Posted by pallen_001

I don't want to stir anything up here but I have to respectfully disagree with Gabor.

I have been flying for almost 30 years now and have made my living flying helicopters for the last 20. I have also owned my own flight school and have launched many people on helicopter careers. I am an ATP, CFI, and CFII Helicopter. In my career I have been a flight instructor, Cheif pilot, done tours, flown off-shore oil, done longline and vertical referance, done utility work, EMS... almost everything you can do in helicopters except police and fire-fighting. I have 14 different helicopter types in my logbook.

My advice: Learn to fly in a Robinson. I know there are those who hate them but I have a couple thousand hours in them and I don't have a problem with them. The reason I say get Robinson time is you will need to build time somehow. Whether you rent, do flight instructions, photo, aerial survey, whatever, chances are your first job will be in a robinson. Without prior Robinson time, you eliminate about 80% of your potential job market. Once you build about 500 hours, start sending out resume's. I know everyone in the industry says they want 1500-2000 hours but the reality is, when they need someone to fill a slot fast, they look at whatever resume's they have on their desk. Make a list of who you have sent them to and contact their Cheif pilot to make sure he received it. Then check back every 6 months or so. they like to hire people they know are serious. Over half of my students ended up with jobs before 1500 hours. About 10 years ago when I worked for ERA helicopters, they hired several co-pilots at 500 hours total time, with no turbine time to fly as offshore co-pilots in the Bell 212 and 412.

Vietnam pilots did rule the roost for a long time, and I used to fly with a lot of them however, since I left ERA Helicopters, I have not flown with a single vietnam era pilot. The youngest someone who flew in Vietnam could be is about 60. Not many left still flying.

FLying helicopters has been a GREAT career. I have been all over the world, done and seen things I still can't beleive, and lately, have made really good money doing it. If you want to fly, don't listen to the nay-sayers. They almost talked me out of flying several times in the early years. Understand it will be a long hard road, but a very rewarding one. If you have the money, put it on the table and fly. If you don't, fly as much as you can. I have had several students that took a loooong time to get their ratings with minimum wage jobs, but they made it.

Gabor, please don't take this as anything more than just my opinion based on my experiences, I have followed your build for some time now and would really like to meet you someday. There is absolutely no disrespect intended here.

Peter Allen

Thank you Peter for that info!!! I am always happy to see when positive outcomes are being told We have such a small community when it comes to helicopter pilots. We are one small bunch of weirdos LOL. It does pain me seeing my exchange CFI (he got my spot at the school) with his ATP and all kinds of Mountain/Sling and who knows what else he has to fly in Afghanistan away from his family.

I guess it has to do with location too. Most of my pilot colleagues went to Louisiana or Texas for rigs but the bases were closing faster than they could relocate. It is a great gig if you make it no question. I just see too many of the "gifted" pilots going back to working in the industries to support their families. The more they were on the ground the less they wanted to go back flying. Such a sad thing to see.
So please understand I only tell him the side I have been seeing right here. Most students come from abroad. Training is still considered cheap in the US. And than they take their licenses and go fly the North Sea and South America. Until the economy picks up this is a tough turf. The guys flying the ditch are hurting badly from the lack of tourism. It's just tough to see them going through the hurdles no fault of their own. I have seen the Silver State guys being ripped off like no other industry could get away with like those dirtbags.
They were hurting too. So they penciled their logbooks and instantly gained 1500 hours flight since there were no records to be double checked. They had flooded the workforce and pretty much filled the industry's need for the next 10 years or so. I really wish that we had a nice strong comeback. We all need it. And than again there is always Fort Rucker!!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of my students went there to gain turbine time....so it is not impossible. Thanks again Peter

[bryancobb]

Another Perspective--- If you are young, sharp, and motivated... Spend $20k to get your Comm/Inst Fixed wing, and stop. Then go get a Trooper position in your home state. Do 5 years as a ticket writer. Then apply to aviation and THEY WILL GET YOUR COMM\HELI RATING FREEEEEE!

Do 15 years as a Trooper Pilot, having all kinds of fun and flying fancy turbine helis on the taxpayer's dime. A 20 year retirement will bring you a decent little pension check and THEN you can start your REAL helicopter job.

Retired Trooper Pilots at 40-45 yrs old with 5000-10000 hours are a gold mine for aviation employers. As our Trooper Pilots retired, they were quickly gobbled up for the BEST flying jobs out there.