So you think you can land...

[jcarleto]

Originally Posted by TJMay

That might be tough!

I think Birdy only wears sandals.....

I was going to say, "I am not worthy to be Birdy's Podiatrist," but it didn't seem to have the same ring to it.

[MrGrey]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Matt - Good suggestions. I don't usually fly just to 'flop around' but to practice/develop skills or to test equipment mods. Your 3 maneuvers go onto my written list to try out.
I note that in your "life spiral", you fly quite nose down. Is there a reason? My spirals are as shallow as possible - just enough to maintain airspeed.

The spirals, like ron showed me how to accomplish, really gets those rotors loaded up nicely and the added rotor RPM gives more float... Wide descending turns do not create the G loading to really get those babys turning. At some point you have to trade that altitude for airspeed and wing loading to increase rotor rpm... wide descending turns give more time than pointing at the ground but no rotor rpm gain. Kinda like the effect a figure skater gets when spinning fast with arms tucked in and slow with the arms out.

With your nose down you go at the ground much faster than at your most efficient rate of descent...thats how they get loaded up.

[Adam H]

"Life Spiral" as an emergency maneuver! I never thought of it that way, good points, Matt.

[Texasautogyro]

I have a special maneuver I call a step back to landing. Its close to the life spiral but I designed it to back up if you are to close even in a vertical decent to make a small area landing.

http://youtu.be/i0Jekus-0qU

It is at about 1:50 into this video from around 600 feet agl, and still gives you about 200 - 300 feet to get speed to flair and land

It moves you back about 200 feet just in case you are to close to target.

This should be practiced at around 800 plus agl befor ever doing it for real. This is because every gyro sinks at their own rate. I turn very steep engine out keeping best glide at all times. For me in the MTO its 55 KTS. Once the backup 180 is done I adjust for distance and prep for the landing.

[themonarch]

Matt, I am glad that you started this thread. Over my training period(s) with CFI's and going for rides with privates while offering to pay for the gas, I have asked these respected hi time gyropilots to show me different manuvers of interest to me. For example I wanted to know how to safely execute a low level 180 and all that it involves. How to safely land in a crosswind. How and why I might want to use my rudder when it comes to choosing to execute a close radius turn, into the downwind, and then into the upwind. I asked to be shown these because I feel that I should know how to do it. I would much rather be shown and trained than how than to figure it out on my own. I am not covering everything here that I have been asked to be shown, or have been shown by the pilots initiative, but I hope the readers catch the gist of my post. There is so much to be shown, to be understood and to be learned. Matt, I think that you would make for a really good CFI Rotorcraft Gyroplane. We need more, more of the best. This would be so beneficial for us wannabees if you, or Ron A. for example, and including a small score of others that I know and could name, would consider it. We pay, we pay! Any seconds on my thoughts from the readers out there? Sincerely, MJD.

[REDHORSE556CES]

Originally Posted by NoWingsAttached

Not recommended my friend. Even the high-time pilots dont' do this for obvious reasons. THe differences between chopping power and shutting off the engine are admittedly significant, but not significant enough to justify the unnecessary risk of having no way out to correct for unexpected loss of altitude at flare height. Those rotors are gonna cost $2k plus, to replace, remember, if you have a rotor strike. You'll walk away, but they won't fly again.

I recall my first flight in a gyro (well known dual seat rig). Take off was normal and the pilot flew the pattern with a few turns and excursions. We turned for final and coasted down toward a point just beyond the numbers. Our descent rate must have been a little steep as the pilot eased the throttle forward and....pure silence...the engine had stopped. We touched down with a WHAM (!). There was no damage to the aircraft but as we taxied back to the hangar I did get an apology from the pilot.

We landed hard enough that the Designer/Manufacturer (and the pilot) inspected the landing gear very closely.

I have since had about 2 hours of actual "stick time" in that same gyro.

My epiphany? That if I'm going to continue flight training, after or at the point of solo, I would probably be asking to be taught (very thouroughly) about emergency inflight proceedures before anything else.

[ckurz7000]

Originally Posted by Adam H

"Life Spiral" as an emergency maneuver! I never thought of it that way, good points, Matt.

From my experience in an MTO I would not consider a "life spiral" to be a particularly useful emergency maneuver. Going round in steep circles when you're trying to make a difficult approach and landing happen isn't generally a good idea. And loading the rotor has minimal effect unless you can time it so that you come out of your last turn lined up just right and touch down within 2-3 seconds. That would be a pretty good stunt considering the adrenalin rush after your engine quit and landing in unfamilar and difficult terrain. Furthermore, light rotors lose the "charge" in a couple of seconds.

In my experience, there are better ways to make an emergency landing into a confined space with the engine stopped.

-- Chris.

[Chopper Reid]

Originally Posted by TJMay

That might be tough!

I think Birdy only wears sandals.....

Tommy

Birdy wears thongs [Japanese work boots ]

Yeah, I know, you guys call thongs something else that Birdy wouldnt be caught dead in

[Chopper Reid]

Just to add my two bobs worth. With any manourvers close to the ground I rely on "Feel to a large extent. "

The gyro , if you have enough expereince, will be telling you if it can do something or it wont. I know, sounds silly but they gyro is talking to you all the time.

[birdy]

Going round in steep circles when you're trying to make a difficult approach and landing happen isn't generally a good idea.
Of all the forced downs iv had, iv never had it happen with more than one half reasonable choise.
If you have energised rotors, you have much more time and energy to play with, given you oppertunity to spot it in very tight places.
If you dont need to spiral in, then wots the emergency?
And the hole reason why you should practise is so you can, and have the confidence to, spiral in wen the noise stops, over hostile dirt.
BTW, you dont have to spiral all the way down, just do a sweeping turn till your close, leaving enuf turn just before you flair to spin um up. Bloodyell, from the alt you blokes are talkn bout, you got time to hava snooze on the way down.
A gyro is capable of a 180 from 30' with no power, as long as your startn from at least cruise speed.

And loading the rotor has minimal effect unless you can time it so that you come out of your last turn lined up just right and touch down within 2-3 seconds.
Thats the point of practice, so you CAN time it. And your rong, theres a big advantage in over sped rotors.
With over sped rotors, you can spot it, and if you spot it, you dont have to be 'lined up' to anythn, coz your`settleing virticaly.

That would be a pretty good stunt considering the adrenalin rush after your engine quit and landing in unfamilar and difficult terrain.
Hardly a stunt Chris.
Its good policy.
And if youv practiced it, its no big deal, and no rush.

[Rusty Russell]

That was some flying... Tks for the vids... Be some time before I try anything like that!
That power off low level 180! Skills and balls!

[GyroRon]

Originally Posted by Rusty Russell

That was some flying... Tks for the vids... Be some time before I try anything like that!
That power off low level 180! Skills and balls!

Thanks....

[jm-urbani]

...........

[Texasautogyro]

Just a comment about these and any agressive low maneuver.

They work very different at altitude and practice is vital. When I was at ROTR at about 5000 ft, I had to change climb out and glide speed to 60 kts instead of 55kts. The sink rate was much higher and I had to add more altitude to be safe.

I also know that the sink rate on say an Aircommand in a turn is much higher then an MTO. Every gyro is different.

I would just say if you want to do these, do them with alot of room to spare at first untill you nail them. They are an advanced technique, I do not teach them to new students.

[MrGrey]

Originally Posted by birdy

Going round in steep circles when you're trying to make a difficult approach and landing happen isn't generally a good idea.
Of all the forced downs iv had, iv never had it happen with more than one half reasonable choise.
If you have energised rotors, you have much more time and energy to play with, given you oppertunity to spot it in very tight places.
If you dont need to spiral in, then wots the emergency?
And the hole reason why you should practise is so you can, and have the confidence to, spiral in wen the noise stops, over hostile dirt.
BTW, you dont have to spiral all the way down, just do a sweeping turn till your close, leaving enuf turn just before you flair to spin um up. Bloodyell, from the alt you blokes are talkn bout, you got time to hava snooze on the way down.
A gyro is capable of a 180 from 30' with no power, as long as your startn from at least cruise speed.

And loading the rotor has minimal effect unless you can time it so that you come out of your last turn lined up just right and touch down within 2-3 seconds.
Thats the point of practice, so you CAN time it. And your rong, theres a big advantage in over sped rotors.
With over sped rotors, you can spot it, and if you spot it, you dont have to be 'lined up' to anythn, coz your`settleing virticaly.

That would be a pretty good stunt considering the adrenalin rush after your engine quit and landing in unfamilar and difficult terrain.
Hardly a stunt Chris.
Its good policy.
And if youv practiced it, its no big deal, and no rush.

I ugree wit ya Birdman... I can routinely execute a spiral descent and time it so I can "hover" to a landing from a couple feet and set her in with "0" Groundspeed... that is the key here, having that additional rotor inertia stacks some cards in your deck that you can play when things go quiet behind ya..

Sure if you have wide open cow pastures and desert then there is no emergency and you need to put her down in a place that is easy to get a trailer to... but many times when flying near airports and congested groundspace you may have no choice but to put it down in a 30'X30' square and you WILL have to put it down vertically or even better example is tall corn... a spiral manuever can put you 10' over the ground with VERY fast turning rotors and you can settle in with a slow vertical sink rate and prob do no damage, just a hard landing.... if you just stop and drop from 10' without added rotor RPM it is going to be ugly.