UK Gyro Petition.

[karlbamforth]

Well done Leigh.

All too often ppl moan about the cards they are dealt without doing anything about it.
I thinks its great that you have taken your time to do this, the UK gyro community owes you big time.

So your next task is to sort out EASA. Haha.

[Resasi]

Although it is most kind of people to be congratulating, I belong to the group 'when the large lady sings...'.

There certainly appear to have been efforts with down to the wire back and forth, sadly, wider consultation that could have been done with far better effect, very much earlier. A rushed job tends not be to the best job.

Until it is seen what has been produced and the new sect 44 is out, we will not know exactly what has, or has not been successful.

What has become very obvious during all this, is the devolution of responsibility that the CAA is putting in place. The BRA will now assume a similar position to the LAA in the self regulation of the sport as a whole. The BRA acting as a single point of reference for the CAA for consultation and dissemination of information regarding gyroplanes between members and the CAA. The BRA, where possible will self regulate much of the day-to-day detail within the rules specified within CAP 393, CAP 804 and sect 44.

The BRA has been in existence for many years, at one time a very popular organisation with a large and enthusiastic following. It has dwindled latterly, to be fair with volunteers managing the various positions, but apparently appealing to a smaller segment of an already small group. Let us hope that it does not limit itself, but realizes that it's own existence is dependent upon on attracting and catering to gyronauts from the whole spectrum of our sport.

[Resasi]

It has been quiet for a bit so had further correspondence with the BRA in regard to the final GFT requirements which we were trying to address.

It appears that the matter of sect 44 is still with Barry Mooney of the CAA and they have yet to decide just how it is going to be settled.

There obviously have been concerns expressed to the CAA and it appears they have been listening, but just for now we simply have to wait and see.

[bpearson]

Leigh, promise I'm not being confrontational but....has anyone asked the CAA why on earth they are in liaison with the BRA? The last time I was a member the committee consisted of the only people who stuck their hand up at election time. The CAA spoke to the organisation but quite rightly saw the organisation as a talking shop....which is all it was really.

Then a few years back I came across a BRA magazine and it looked like a promotion brochure of a certain factory built gyro. Suddenly the CAA are liaising with them and taking advice. Suddenly the BRA are speaking on behalf of the gyro community! Suddenly single seat gyros are death traps! It stinks!

Hopefully the CAA will relent re the single seat training syllabus but history shows that they will not stop there and maybe questions should be asked how wise it is to take advice from an organisation who may offer advice biased due to vested interests.

Best regards brian

[Resasi]

No Brian not being confrontational at all. I think it is simply that the CAA is used to, and would prefer dealing with groups and organisations.

The BRA has been around a long time, only recently beginning to apparently polarize and seem that it was only appealing to those who were flying the new factory two seaters. This is unfortunate for us all as it seems to have caused a split.

I am joining the BRA and will suggest that for all our interests as a group of pilots flying gyros, the more who do, including all those single seat pilots who have not because it didn't seem to represent their views, the better. Work with rather than against, influencing from within an organisation the CAA has said it will deal with.

I think the recent discussion that have taken place between all concerned parties has been helpful, and has caused people to look closer at various issues that provoked the change that we were being faced with.

The CAA has to look somewhere for advice and the BRA contains all the UK instructors, logically that is where the advice has to come from.

[pat]

Leigh, I have only just discovered this thread today, and all i can say is "THANK YOU" for bringing this into whole issue into the open so it may be properly discussed. My situation......i wish to undertake a ab-initio gyro course with the aim of obtaining/flying a single seater.......unfortunately i quickly discovered that single seat instructors are few and far between here in the UK, and with the prospect of training only being allowed on 2 seaters, i can only imagine they (single seat instructors) will become as rare as hens teeth! - and given that my finances would NEVER stretch to a factory built 2 seater, i feel that that small guy like myself is being marginalized, while the fat cats with their comfortable relationships with the only 2 uk approved manufacturers are allowed to fullfill their gyro ambitions all i can say is shame on them for dumping on the very people that kept the gyro community alive for all those years before they were about - it seems that commercial interests have taken priority over root and branch views.

[Resasi]

Pat it is my sincere hope that the CAA in the shape of Barry Mooney has been getting plenty of feedback from the representations and points of view that have been going in to the CAA as a result of the opening up of consultations to those single seat pilots who had not been included.

The last time that Tony Melody a senior single seat instructor in the UK spoke to him the matter was being considered, and Phil Harwood as the Chairman of the BRA had told me that he had recommended to Barry in the last revision of Sect 44 that the ability to do part of the PPL(G) syllabus on a single seat machine be retained.

Your was precisely the sort of case we felt had been overlooked. Yes single seat instructor are rare right now and if this avenue had been closed they may well be rarer unless things change. Lets hope that the CAA will consider this effort of ours favorably.

[Resasi]

The CAA has considered and there has been a response which has been favourable towards our efforts to retain single seat training in the PPL(G) syllabus completion.

There was concerted action by many UK gyro pilots who all contributed at a very late stage to this result, so a big thank you to them, and to the CAA for reacting so promptly to these concerns.

I am not sure just who were arguing 'against' but glad that the pros were considered sufficient to retain.

In recent weeks the CAA has received a number of e-mails and letters concerning Standards Document 44; primarily commenting on whether or not pilots who have yet to gain their licences should be permitted to fly single-seater gyroplanes. Arguments were presented both for and against allowing this.

We have considered these comments carefully in the context of the CAA’s general policies (licensing, airworthiness and operations) on the activities that kit-built/homebuilt aircraft of all categories may be used to undertake. As a consequence of this review we have decided to amend Standards Document 44 to allow the sole owners of kit-built/homebuilt gyroplanes to undertake the solo flying exercises only of the PPL(G) syllabus, in their own aircraft, subject to certain conditions being complied with. The relevant extract from the amendment is attached to this e-mail.

Standards Document 44 will be amended shortly to include the new text. I hope this addresses your primary concerns. Other issues raised in the recent correspondence will be considered when a further amendment to Standards Document 44 is to be prepared.

Yours sincerely

Cliff Whittaker

Head of Licensing & Training Policy

UK CAA

[EI-GYRO]

Well done, Leigh.
Looks like you made an impression.
Not only did you prevent a bad thing happening, you
may have secured a better footing for single-seat training
than it had before.

[SandL]

Hi Leigh
You and Tony did a great job burning the midnight oil 4am one night I understand !... you deserve a result.
I see Cliff says arguements both for and against .... wonder who argued against ? and why ? maybe we will never know.
Maybe I should rejoin the BRA.

[karlbamforth]

Excellent result Leigh,

Should our paths ever cross feel free to remind me I owe you a couple of cold beers.

[Resasi]

Thanks guys, it was team work by a good number of concerned people here in the UK, thorough investigation of statistics by you Peter, and I think sound arguments that made good sense to the CAA. Certainly ones they saw fit to act upon.

I has I think been a good conclusion for all of us.

[pat]

Hi all,

it looks like we all owe Leigh a drink or two, as the caa recently released the amended Gyroplane Licensing requirements to include a provision for single seat training


http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=4955

[EI-GYRO]

That looked fairly reasonable to me. Looks like you done good, Leigh.

Maybe Mr Layzell can now churn out his machines and sell them to the jokers priced out of the two-seat market.

Who knows, maybe the GE crowd might even find it worthwhile to
promote single-seaters as a post-training machine for their students
of more marginal means.

At the very least, you have maintained the status quo, but you may have done a lot more than that.

[Gyro_Kai]

Good on you Leigh, you surely made a difference!

Kai.