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  #16  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:19 AM
PTKay PTKay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troed@aon.at View Post
Hi PTkay !

I have to correct myself since I saw now also pics from the inside:

some ideas and ergonomy parts are from XENON .................
I also thought, I have seen those throttle and prerotator
handles somewhere before...



But still the forward visibility and shoulder room were designed by themselves.

Some call it "form before function", you have to sacrifice a lot
to get this sexy look well matching the long legged girls
presenting it in the "smoke and mirrors" stunt they pulled off
in Friedrichsghafen....

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  #17  
Old 04-14-2011, 05:28 AM
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...matching the long legged girls
presenting it....
More about the girls, please!
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2011, 05:36 AM
PTKay PTKay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyRose View Post
More about the girls, please!
Here you go, smoke, mirrors, girls...



That's what makes the aviation safe and sound.

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  #19  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:20 AM
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Of course girls and smoke do not make ithe product safer.

Its all about advertising. Lights, girls and smoke attracts attention so that ppl will take photos and publish them in magazines and on websites.

This provides free advertising and press coverage for their product. It guarantees their product will be seen worldwide on all the forums that matter.

Seems like it worked fine to me.
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:53 AM
PTKay PTKay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlbamforth View Post
...
Seems like it worked fine to me.
So to balance I place a link to a photo of the Xenon Executive,
also from Friedrichshafen, no girls, no smoke.


Last edited by PTKay; 04-14-2011 at 06:56 AM.
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  #21  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:03 PM
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Gyro_Kai Gyro_Kai is offline
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Hey guys,

if you use my photos, that is ok. But pleast do not "AB"use them.

Yes the Cavalon has two seats side by side like the Xenon.
Or the VW beatle.
Or the Cessna 172.
Or my two seater couch.

That is where similarity ends.
  • The Xenon still has the one-axle cyclic control, which leads to sometimes strange motion to achieve a desired cyclic move,. the Cavalon has a proper 2-stick arrangement..
  • The Xenon does not have adjustable pedals, in the Cavalon a simple pull on one handle.
  • The Xenon with 912 engine and no mods moves very slowly and does not climb well, the Cavalon still goes, according to those who have flown it (non company members).
  • The back rest angle of the Xenon seat is not adjustable.
  • The Cavalon stores the petrol outside of the cabin not inside like the Xenon.

That, off the top of my head, I have not really been able to analyse it closely. AE admit, that it is more sluggish and they publish a cruise speed of 145 kph as opposed to the verified and tested 160 kph on the Calidus. That is much more realistic, than some other publication on the market.

I know, that you two love to do autogyro-europe bashing, but please stick to the facts.
There are many things left to be desired in the Calidus and MTOsport, I have always openly discussed this. But this plane is really well made and to me looks like a mature and good design, only the rudder should be taller, same fault as on the Calidus.

Kai.
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  #22  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:22 PM
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A bigger issue to me would be the life limits on the extruded blades and stainless steel airframes. If you spend $80K on a machine, and at the end of 1500 hours are left with nothing but a salvaged, high-time Rotax 912, that adds about $50/hour to operating costs compared to a chromoly frame which could last for many decades with proper care.

For the casual recreational flier who logs 100 hours or less per year, perhaps this is not a big deal. But for a flight school or active law enforcement agency, that could be a year or 18 months.
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  #23  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
If you spend $80K on a machine, and at the end of 1500 hours are left with nothing but a salvaged, high-time Rotax 912
I'm confused. A mandatory inspection is required not throw away??
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  #24  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PW_Plack View Post
A bigger issue to me would be the life limits on the extruded blades and stainless steel airframes. If you spend $80K on a machine, and at the end of 1500 hours are left with nothing but a salvaged, high-time Rotax 912, that adds about $50/hour to operating costs compared to a chromoly frame which could last for many decades with proper care.

For the casual recreational flier who logs 100 hours or less per year, perhaps this is not a big deal. But for a flight school or active law enforcement agency, that could be a year or 18 months.
Yes, Paul I totally agree.

There have been incidents of cracks at the mast root (Troed can provide photos). Now they added two additional struts, but for safety reasons require a mandatory frame inspection after 1500 hrs. The original German reco. required replacement, but it was downgraded to thorough inspection.

Kai.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:38 AM
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I must say I prefer the larger windows in the Xenon, even if it does (from what I read above) have a one-axle cyclic like the M24.

PS. Now the cat's out of the bag, do we have any Forum members who've flown the Cavalon?
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  #26  
Old 04-15-2011, 10:58 AM
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People made comments about mandatory inspections on airframes. The Cirrus actually has a 20 year airframe (at least it used to have... haven't looked at them in years). Afterwards (unless inspected and extended) the aircraft is no longer airworthy. Similarly, I believe the Robinson's have a mandatory 2000 inspection. At that time you either get an overhaul or credit to a new aircraft. We just saw a citabria on our field that was inspected to find all wing ribs cracked. They probably should have had a mandatory inspection.
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2011, 07:46 AM
PTKay PTKay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyro_Kai View Post
if you use my photos, that is ok. But pleast do not "AB"use them.
Hey, Kai, it was you, who chose to post this nice photo of the nice lady, not us.
I do not think it was any abuse to repost them, the girl is really nice.

Quote:
That is where similarity ends.
  • The Xenon still has the one-axle cyclic control, which leads to sometimes strange motion to achieve a desired cyclic move,. the Cavalon has a proper 2-stick arrangement..
  • The Xenon does not have adjustable pedals, in the Cavalon a simple pull on one handle.
  • The Xenon with 912 engine and no mods moves very slowly and does not climb well, the Cavalon still goes, according to those who have flown it (non company members).
  • The back rest angle of the Xenon seat is not adjustable.
  • The Cavalon stores the petrol outside of the cabin not inside like the Xenon.
  • Agreed on that, I have no idea, what strange motion is, for me it was straightforward
  • Agreed on that.
  • You will tell us if the Cavalon still goes, after you have flown it.
  • Agreed on that
  • I also don't like petrol inside the cabin like the Xenon, but where the Cavalon has it? In the engine compartment? I don't like it either.
Quote:
AE admit, that it is more sluggish and they publish a cruise speed of 145 kph as opposed to the verified and tested 160 kph on the Calidus. That is much more realistic, than some other publication on the market.
That is really interesting, is it for the 912 or 914 version?

Last edited by PTKay; 04-16-2011 at 07:50 AM.
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  #28  
Old 04-16-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyro_Kai View Post
...The original German reco. required replacement, but it was downgraded to thorough inspection.
The requirement for replacement made big news, but when that was changed to inspection, we didn't hear so much about it. I apologize if my info was out of date.

Kai, I wonder the same thing about the frame cracks as I do about the cracks in the extruded blades. Is it possible, with the rapid sales of the past four years, that training has been rushed for some pilots? These issues sound like they could be as much about hard landings and blade flap as they are about shortcomings in material selection.
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  #29  
Old 04-16-2011, 09:26 AM
PTKay PTKay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PW_Plack View Post
.... as I do about the cracks in the extruded blades. Is it possible, with the rapid sales of the past four years, that training has been rushed for some pilots? These issues sound like they could be as much about hard landings and blade flap as they are about shortcomings in material selection.
Preventing the blade flaps, hard manoeuvres and hard landings is one thing,
recognizing a crack is another.

In the pre-flight procedure on Xenon (although no cracks have been reported)
Raphael insists on climbing on top of the cabin (yes, you can do it, there
are special steps and platform) and after inspecting the rods and hub bolts
you are supposed to "knock" on each blade app. 10' from the hub bar.

They should give then a nice, clean sound, supposed to be
the same pitch on both blades.
If it is not, you better take the rotor down and inspect it carefully.
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  #30  
Old 04-16-2011, 10:38 AM
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Hi PTKay

Would extruded blades be more subject to high frequency vibration and fatigue cracking ??

Tony
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