Looking for a beginning...

[sgrooms]

I have followed this sport for quite a while now, and I was wondering where a person would go to find some lessons. I want to make sure this is something that I think it is before I dive in deep. (Did that make sense?)

I am located in northern Missouri. Does anyone know who gives lessons or flight demonstrations reasonably close? I am a bigger guy (275 lbs), and I know that makes some difference.

Thoughts? And thanks!

[Friendly]

Your lucky , there are two Magnis in Missouri, There is a listing on the pra web site.

[MichaelBurton]

I created a map of the PRA instructors. You can find it by following the link in my signature. The instructors information should come up when you click the balloon.

[barnstorm2]

A fly in is a great place to see machine and get rides.

Bensen Days in FLA is in April and Mentone is in IN. in August.

If you pass through Cincinnati, give me a call. I am not an instructor but I will give you a ride in my machine.

.

[Steve McGowan]

I personaly will not cross the 240 lbs pilot for co-pilot/student weight..

Steve

Be careful Tim........Demo rides are not authorized under a LODA.... "INSTRUCTIONS ONLY"

however its your busines whomever you carry with you...

[PW_Plack]

Steve, I'm a little confused...does your LODA have terms that prohibit using the machine for routine personal flight with a passenger, even when you're not charging for it?

If Tim is not an instructor, why would he even have a LODA?

[Steve McGowan]

Your correct on that statement,, far as I know Tim is not an instructor and can do whatever he wishes.

We as flight instructors are limited,,and as we ferry our gyro's across the country, it's done to instruct persons that are interested in gyroplanes at
whatever fly-in we're attending. For that we also pay a Vendor's FEE..

It's "NOT" as someone said, "A JOB" but it does help to offset the expenses of getting there and attending. I've had "A JOB" for many years, and as everone else has expenses.

I made much more money as a JourneyMan welder, with MUCH Less headaches. And there I could make mistakes,
As a CFI, "WE" cannott afford to.

There's not many of us instructing in gyro's anymore, and the ones that do attend are ridiculed because we do charge a fee for instructions to those that want to experience gyro's with a professional CFI in a gyro that has been inspected by the FAA for that purpose.


As CFI's, we're there for that purpose,
Demonstration Flights as you can see are Prohibited..

Atleast with us it is..

Again,, Thanks for asking PW..

Steve

[animal]

Steve I think you are bent out of shape over nothing,I think what Tim refered to as a Demo flight,was really an offer for a free ride. I know when Tim took me up he sure did not charge me. If we as aircraft owners can not take a person up for a free ride, then whats the use in having a 2 seat aircraft.

note the part in Tim's post.

If you pass through Cincinnati, give me a call. I am not an instructor but I will give you a ride in my machine.

key word here is ( Give.)

[Steve McGowan]

At all bent outta shape,, or anything of the sort..

As I said.. Do whatever you wish for a friend.. I was just saying the Facts about the ruling on CFI's..Many folks do not know the extent that the CFI's have had to go thru..

Why in the world would you think I'm bent outta shape?? DUH!! We all have to get an introduction somewhere..

If I were Animal, I would surely say so..... Thankyou anyway..

[Heron]

Loose some pounds Sgrooms, it will be for the better.
Steve take them up and say it was a half lesson . . . semantics you know?
What are you doing up there in your spare time? Having fun or once a cop always a cop??
Heron

[thesultanofscud]

Hello Steve,

I'm a fixed wing CFI that has followed the PRA and gyro community for some time now. Could you please clarify your interpretation of the limits set forth by your LODA?

As a CFI, I also err on the side of caution when dealing with operational limitations and waivers with the FAA. I'm under the impression that you would consider a "cross country pleasure/business flight conducted under part 91" with a passenger to be a violation of your aircraft's limitations per the LODA. I'm under the impression that you feel that the FAA wouldn't distinguish a difference between passenger carrying, non-instructional sorties for the purpose of "demo-flights" or for just getting from "A to B".

Please set me straight if I have your interpretation wrong. Would the FAA, in your experiences, totally frown on any and all non-instructional, passenger carrying flights?

Has this been explicitly stated to you by a fed or FAA document, or is this just the safest, cleanest interpretation to take as a professional instructor.

Thanks in advance for your input, sir.

-Sultan

[Steve McGowan]

Easiest way to explain it to you Sultan is read the posting from my LODA.

The FAA stated in writing the usefulness of the gyro. Now I myself can and will fly for pleasure and will ask friends to accompany me.
But when it comes to MONEY.. the guidelines are to be followed.. Instructions are of Value just as the machine is.. For anyone to take a friend out flying.. Thats they're business..

At the Fly-In's the CFI's are there for instructional time to those that are interested.. That time is Log Book endorseable, The LODA say's proper guidelines are to be followed.. Therefore before anyone get's into my machine for training I know everything about them, That includes proper Identification such as Copy of Birth certificate or Passport, Drivers License and photo of them.

I don't want to sound like I'm Chicken Little or that I'm Bitchin, I and other CFI's are under the microscope of the FAA/TSA. I'd hate to take someone out for a flight and it be an agent for either.. and YES It has happened to me.

There has been a TSA/FAA agent at Bensen Day's and Mentone for the last few years. These people I have spoken to, answered questions and flown with a few.

Hopefully this will answer your question..again read my (partial) LODA posting.

Steve

[thesultanofscud]

Originally Posted by Steve McGowan

The FAA stated in writing the usefulness of the gyro. Now I myself can and will fly for pleasure and will ask friends to accompany me.
But when it comes to MONEY.. the guidelines are to be followed..

Steve

Thank you for your prompt response. This was inline with my original understanding of these rules, and because I wasn't quick on the uptake regarding your earlier posts, I felt my own interpretation was challenged. I'm happy to hear it reinforced for me that the FAA's decisions regarding paying-passengers and the TSA requirements indeed, do not prohibit personal, non-instructional passenger carrying flights in a private, non-revenue generating flying environment.

Thanks again, Steve. You have made it all very clear.