1st flight a sucess!

I went up for a into flight with Steve McGowan This morning! My wife took a ride as well!

Man it was fun a scary at the same time! Sharp bank turns are scary to me! Other than that it was fun real run!

Steve's Parson is a HTL with no H stab! Oh no its unstable. LOL It felt pretty darn stable to me without a H stab.

However I think I would still prefer a H stab on mine.

I have some pics. Where is a good place to post them for free to link over to the forum?

Steve is a super nice guy and I really I enjoyed flying with him. What is funny is I was less nervous in the front seat rather than the back!

Uh! Oh!

Uh! Oh!

GrantR said:

I went up for a into flight with Steve McGowan This morning! My wife took a ride as well!

Man it was fun a scary at the same time! Sharp bank turns are scary to me! Other than that it was fun real run!

Steve's Parson is a HTL with no H stab! Oh no its unstable. LOL It felt pretty darn stable to me without a H stab.

However I think I would still prefer a H stab on mine.

I have some pics. Where is a good place to post them for free to link over to the forum?

Steve is a super nice guy and I really I enjoyed flying with him. What is funny is I was less nervous in the front seat rather than the back!

Click to expand...

Uh! Oh!

Another addict.

Glad you enjoyed it.
It was with Steve I took my first ride.
It's been fun ever since.

Why in the hell would you take a risk like that when it is well documented that a horiz stab will increase your chances of NOT having any problems!
Oh well its your life -do with it as you want!

LOL Mike!

YEp I agree the H stab will make the gyro much more pitch stable however an experienced pilot who knows how to fly one correctly with out an h stab will not get into a unstable situation.
As I stated when I buy one I want a H stab and CLT. It does seem learning to fly one with out a h stab or CLT will make transitioning to a gyro with CLT and h stab easier.

The parsons does have a rock guard H stab

I too had a rockin ride with Steve at Mentone. He is an awsome pilot and he and Deb are a class act. I loved the experience. Thanks Steve and Deb.
Steve.

Grant,
Glad you enjoyed your ride. Resize your photos to about 800x600 pixels and below 150 kb and you can upload them to the forum web server.

Congratulations Grant!

gyro flying is like nothing else!

grant,

glad ya had fun, steve is a nice guy , be glad it wasnt jim logan in an raf no stab, raf pitch unstable with jim logan BAD!!!! parson's no stab, pitch unstable with steve OK!!!!!!! how come YOU CLT stability guys aint jumping all over steve for teaching in a HTL unstable machine, like yaLL do jim logan or anyone who ride with him ?????? YA BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES

Now, Now Ben...you're startin' anothern. :boom:


Cheers

I wouldn't consider Steve's rock guard/stabbed parsons to be completely stabless. The thrustline is also nowhere near as high as an RAF either so I can't see comparing it to an RAF.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37619&d=1187191905

GrantR said:

LOL Mike!

YEp I agree the H stab will make the gyro much more pitch stable however an experienced pilot who knows how to fly one correctly with out an h stab will not get into a unstable situation.

Click to expand...

Grant it is amazing that you can make that quote - I assume it is based upon your vast experience.

The only problem is that as the string of RAF smoking holes proves, pilots who are sure they can "fly one correctly" only find out they misjudged a bit in those last screaming seconds.

Every guy that died in an unstable machine took off knowing for sure he knew how to fly the machine correctly.

Statistics show us that anyone that goes flying with Jim Logan, Duane Hunn or Steve McGowan are pretty sure to have a great time and come down perfectly safe and and sound.

To extrapolate that YOU can fly an unstable machine "correctly" is a conclusion that is most deffinately not supported by the facts.

Rob

At least Steve did concede after blowing the engine on his Mazda rotary at Bensen Days ’07 and having to borrow a Dominator to continue training, that the Dominator was so stable it practically flew itself.

The downside: if his students could solo in 8 hours, Ol’ Steve wouldn’t be so plump and cuddly living on baloney sandwiches and creek water.

Is this the Denmark Kingdom?
And again yes . . .they are great pilots and instructors . . .
any doubts?
Heron

Rob, yes maybe my quote is being a bit optimistic! I can't say proper training will keep anyone out of a unstable situation. Yes my experience is next to none! I have .9 hrs flight time in a gyro! Many hours pilot in command of a radio controlled gyroplane.
I am basing my thoughts on what I've read and what I've heard. Correct me if I'm wrong

RAF has a very high thrust line along with a front enclosure. The HTL in addition to the enclosure and no H stab makes this gyro prone to bunt overs or drag overs from the pod dragging so much air and the high power thrust well above the vertical CG. On this machine, I would guess flying it too fast would be the area where it gets most unstable. Then all hell breaks loose and the gyro starts a nose in bunt and the pilot overreacts and pulls back too much and so on until a PIO is occurring and then the dreaded bunt over. Probably never reduces the power. I would thing if I was flying a gyro and the nose dropped and it seemed like it was nosing over I would ease off the power to idle while easing the stick back. That would be my natural instinct.

The parsons trainer has HTL that’s not much above the vertical CG. It is more stable since it does not have a draggy pod or a extremely HTL. It could use more vertical fin as you have to stay on the right rudder during the whole flight.

As far as a gyro from myself, I like the Ultra white, Dominator, butterfly and the gyro bee. These all seem like great proven designs with CLT and H stabs.

It seems to me if I learn how to fly Steve's Parson then it will make it much easier for me to solo in a gyro with CLT and a H stab.
Do you agree?

Passing comment on being taught on an unstable RAF.
Having been on this forum and been made aware of the number of experienced pilots and others who have come to grief on unstable machines, together with informed advice on modding to a more stable configuration and it's benefits, I am now both forewarned, prepared to accept that there will be more training time involved, and look forward to flying a stable machine at some stage.

My own opinion of extra training time is, that with a good instructor that is time well spent. If that puts extra ham in his sandwich and good whisky in his glass so much the better for both of us.

Many pilots have said that after learning to fly with Steve in the Black, all others seem to be tamed gyros in comparison.
so yes . . .it will be an asset if you master that ship, besides Steve's record is there to confirm.
All good
Heron

RAF vs Parsons trainer.

RAF vs Parsons trainer.

Here is my experience with the two.

I took the controls of Bill Biggee's (SP) RAF (no stab) and it scared me. Even locking the control to my knee did not stop the oscillations.

I wanted to go up with Pat McNear to compare the two. Things didn't work out. The talk was that even Bill was amazed at how well Pat's machine flew compared to his.
By the way...where is Bill. I haven't heard since his last visit at ROC.
????

On the other hand:

I had no problems with Steve's tandem trainer. I found it quite similar to Rusty's tandem Air Command.

Rusty had his Air Command rebuilt to the more center line thrust configuration and it flew even better. It did not nose down when I applied the power. It did nose down before the reconfiguration. Rusty has since sold the Air Command and built a tandem Dominator.

Steve's machine is no where a difficult gyro to fly.
It was a lot of fun. Bill's RAF was not........ but that was because I had very little experience.

...pilot who knows how to fly one correctly with out an h stab will not get into a unstable situation...

It's not the situation that's unstable.

"Unstable" means possessing the characteristic that once a diversion from controlled flight begins, it becomes self-sustaining. An unstable machine is always in an "unstable situation," regardless of who's flying it.

Timchick said:

I wouldn't consider Steve's rock guard/stabbed parsons to be completely stabless. The thrustline is also nowhere near as high as an RAF either so I can't see comparing it to an RAF.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37619&d=1187191905

Click to expand...

Well said.

Also, I learned from Doug during discussions about the Twinstarr that a tandem configuration is also more 'stable' or perhaps better said .. less perturbable then a side by side configuration by a significant amount.

I have never heard of a Parsons getting a double hang test but using the 'imaginary line method' the Parsons does not appear to have much of a thrust-line offset.

Steve's gyro has a very small fuel tank ( 6 or 8 gallon seat tank = 36/48lbs? ). The machine is hardly capable of cross country. The thrustline even passes through the top part of the seat tank.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the RAF use a 21 gallon tank down UNDER the seat of the pilot with some coming up the back (126 lbs) with the thrust line passing though or above the top of the pilots head?

I don't know how much the pod weighs but it is almost all under the thrust line (along with it's drag), and I don't think Steves redrive brings the prop up above the center of gravity of the engine like an RAF one does either.

Does anyone know what McClutchen's weigh (with hub bar) compared to a set of RAF blades and bar? Might be a few extra lbs of help there too...

I know I was surprised to find out that stock Bensens with a seat tank are CLT. A Parsons is just an extended Bensen.

.

I just pulled up my video of us taxing by my wife. The TL is slighty lower than the top of the back seat and in line with my shoulders. The front seat is lower than the rear.

looking at the gyro it appear that the engine is relativly low on the mast.