What is up with the slow market on used gyros right now?

Denis Fetter, we need your help!!!


Yes, we need another gyro evanglist!


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:hail: :hail: :yo:
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:hail: :hail:

Wouldn't be great if someone out there lurking on the internet would donate a ____bee kit to each of the major PRA chapters to build?

Then each chapter could build a 'bee sell it for the price of a new kit and start all over again.

We would then be producing safe, stable introductory gyros througout the country, training people to build them, and increasing the population of pilots, gyros and builders!

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SEX!!! You are guys are way over the hill if you haven't caught on to this one yet. Freud says almost everyting we do is related to sex somehow. The Gyro on the old James Bond flick should have done for Gyros what the "ITALIAN JOB" did for Mini Coopers. Before that film, mini's were not recognized by the average girl, hence they were not very sexy and guys wouldn't buy em cuz girls weren't impressed with em. After the IJ movie, girls got hip to the cool minis, guys bought em to impress the babes. Now Minis are EVERYWHERE I look. I'm with Freud on this one. Guys buy stuff they think will impress the babes. Harleys and bikes are definitely babe magnets. Boats, power or sail. FW planes do the trick. "Helicopter" gets a girl's attention in a conversation. Mention Gyro to a girl, and she will give you a blank stare. Lack of exposure, lack of instructors, lack of sexy looking designs, bad rep for safety. Money is not the issue. These things a dirt cheap. I tell folks they can fly a gyro, and that it's almost like a helicopter, for the price of a nice bike, and they are amazed.
 
Did we ever have any luck with Angelina Jolie??

Can we all get together write a public letter get signatures and send it to her?
 
Uh HUH !!!!!!

Uh HUH !!!!!!

Training is a issue, but I do not think it is a deal killer. Alot of people do what CobraDoc suggested and buy a Harely, and then what do they do....? they travel hundreds or even thousands of miles with it to spend a week at Daytona, or Sprugis or any of the other major bike rallys.

People buy hang gliders and go great distances to meet up at rallys in Florida or in the mountains somewhere....

OR they buy a boat and then travel great distances to do some boating on the coast or the Florida Keys ( I made that trip a few times! )

So to travel for a few hours of lessons to learn to fly a gyro is not the end of the world.

As far as newbies building their first gyros? Heck I think that is not always the case. I sure didn't build my first one, and glad I didn't. I wanted to fly these things, not play Mister McGyver with a band saw in my garage and think Maybe one day I will fly this thing....

I think alot of newbies do come into this sport with building their own machine cause they couldn't find or didn't know where to look, for a good used gyro. Alot of people had to build their machine if they wanted one exactly like the one they built...

Thom, I bascially saw my first gyro in person - okay second one to be exact but didn't really LOOK at the first one, just gave it a passing glance - In Febuary 2001. By the end of Febuary I had purchased my first gyro used. By the beginning of April 2001 I had fixed up my used gyro based on reccomendations made by other area gyro pilots. And then in April 2001 at Bensen days I spent the entire week there at CFI Steve McGowans side, had my gyro hang tested and had Steve test fly it. The following weekend after Bensen Days was over I went out to my local airport and after a hour of ground work I soloed my gyro around the pattern. I have been flying my gyro ever since. Start to finish was 2 months from seeing my first gyro to flying solo in one.


Yes Lawn Mower MAN (Ron)

You are part of the reason I'm gettin grey hair,, cold weather has a llil to do with things,, Not so much as it would seem tho.

Many people are not as talented as Ron is.. He's a natural,, crazy as hell and don't scare too easy.. and at times I'd like to just stripe his leggs with a long hickory to get his attention.

I destroyed 6 machines before I learned what NOT to Do !:wacko:

So Yall DO NOT try to copy Ron.....

Gettin Old,, beats the Alternative

me&BOO
 
Here's one for the engineer types to wrap their noodle around. There is no S-LSA gyro. Lets get back to basics and build a solid trainer/sport gyro. Tractor, tri-gear, dual seating, stub wings, mast-through-the-hub for BRS installation. Certified engine up front: 912S, O-230, O-320, whatever. If the rotor doesn't have to provide all the lift, you don't need that much horse power. Keep it open cockpit. Give it a "roadster" look. A canvas "pop-top" maybe? Why not make it a convertible? It worked for the auto industry. Cierva had a lot of great ideas that are all being ignored. I don't think wings will work on a pusher. Even if it is CLT. Once the wings start lifting, if they are lower than the thrust center-line, the gyro will push-over. A sexy little tractor gyro: why not?
 
Yep It is a sex thing.

Most think Heli and Gyro are the same thing.

Until we can get that seperated well you know

Europe has really gotten into the sleek design no matter what the cost. They even build the whole gyro to sell. Whats the deal here. We protect the experimental classification like the holy graile.

We have certified FW and Heli with the experimental classification also

We had the J2 and A&S 18 that were certified. Something is amiss here now.


Thom
 
Gyro Camp!

Gyro Camp!

We need gyro camp.

Ad in KitPlanes, EAA Sport Pilot, AMA Magazine, Classic Motorcyclist and American Iron:


Picture: Angelina Jolie sitting on to Magni 2-Place.

Learn to fly affordably and in the safest most manouverable aircraft.

2-week Pilot Camp, Learn to fly solo and be almost ready for your Sport Pilot Certificate or ready to fly as an Ultralight pilot! only $1500*

2-week Builder Camp, Get expert on-site help and advise while you build your single place gyrobee at our facility. All parts are instock just waiting for you to show up. $6000**

3-week Build and Fly Camp, Train to fly during the day and build at night. Coffee included. $7500

Close attractions at the beach and at ________ amusement parks and ______ tourist attractions so your family can keep busy while you work during the day.

Hotel accomedations not included.

Just Call 1-800-XXX-XXXX and make arrangements to attend the next session starting XX-XX-2007



*some pilots may require extra time to solo but 80% of students will be able to solo during this time.
**2-place machines and other machine might not be completed by the end of camp. Please be prepaired to trailer your machine home nearly complete. See your GYRO-CAMP gyroplane sponsoring dealer for information about the build time of your gyro.
 
We have had a bad year safety-wise. Terry Eiland's accident didn't help the SH market and Alan Coat's accident didn't help the 'bee/light single UL market. Less than a year ago Ken Rehler went with his award-winning beautiful gyro. :rip: All of these accidents were un-explainable, if not unthinkable.

Some of us may not be affected personally by these accidents ("frick accidents are not going to happen to me") but remember that we are an already small and shrinking group of people. I believe that many "wannabies" who were lurking in the background, waiting for the right time to jump in, saw all these accidents and got cold feet.

Next year, if we have a better year safety-wise, we will probably see more people getting back into the sport.

I am sure the financial and other reasons that were mentioned above have also contributed to the problem. Everything together makes it for a pretty bleak year.

Udi
 
$100,000 S-LSAs from the Czech Repulic are selling like crazy. It ain't a money issue. It's an aircraft issue and a marketing issue. Dr Bensen's design worked for LICENSED pilots in a 60hp or less single seat gyro that followed his plan to the letter. Unless it's a turbine, the engine in the back is in the wrong place. If you don't believe me go do some engine out practice in a Cessna 337 then let me know which engine you would prefer to have fail.
 
We have had a bad year safety-wise. ........ I believe that many "wannabies" who were lurking in the background, waiting for the right time to jump in, saw all these accidents and got cold feet.
Udi

Udi,

While I agree, (I am just thinking out loud here) I see as many UL Fixed wing and experimental craft go down as gyros.

The problem seems to be that when these other types of craft go down the pilot gets 'auto'-blamed, when gyros go down the gyro gets 'auto'- blamed. It's the stereo-type.

I am not talking about any specific accidents here as we don't know the causes of the afore mentioned but I am talking just "knee-jerk" reactions I see in people.

I have to agree that a fatality free year will help greatly but we also have to work on our stereo-type.



$100,000 S-LSAs from the Czech Repulic are selling like crazy. It ain't a money issue. It's an aircraft issue and a marketing issue. Dr Bensen's design worked for LICENSED pilots in a 60hp or less single seat gyro that followed his plan to the letter. Unless it's a turbine, the engine in the back is in the wrong place. If you don't believe me go do some engine out practice in a Cessna 337 then let me know which engine you would prefer to have fail.

I have always been charmed by the tractor gyros.

I wish we had a true kit tractor and not just plans tractors. You already mentioned the certified engines in an earlier post but I wanted to add that I often show gyro pictures to GA pilots and time and time again they point to the Littlewing photos and say "I would like to try that gyro". The familiar fuselage really really appeals to them.

Somebody please make a tractor kit like the Littlewing! or better yet a ready to go LSA LittleWing!
 
Ron, what does the cost of the miniguns or ammo got to do with folks buying gyros?

FYI: R&D can be very expensive and is figured in on the final sale price which is absorbed by the customer. I don’t sit around the shop all day building these things for myself and then dump out thousands of rounds just to get a thrill.

I know what you are saying about when somebody wants something, money is not the issue.... you grow the one eyebrow and clench you teeth and go for it. That may be true, but how many of us can reach into our back pockets and pull out some serious cash? Most have to get a loan or use 2-3 credit cards to pull it off. (go to the bank and ask for a loan on a gyro with it being secured as collateral)

If these things had titles and insurance was affordable then you would see a huge jump in sales. Why do you see so many motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles sport scars RV's SUV's etc....they are all able to be financed at an affordable rate with a monthly payment that fit there budgets and the title is collateral when financed. they know by law you have to have insurance, so if you go kill yourself they still get paid.
Most credit cards are an alternative but the promotional low rate interest run out in a year. What options do we have??? Use our car or truck for collateral that is not paid for?? And if it is, it’s usually not worth a plug nickel Or our newly financed homes....Ron in my opinion it all about the Benjamin’s.
 
I've said it before and I'll again, and probably a few hundred more times: For licensed gyro pilots or legitimate students flying qualified gyros, the insurance rate is no different than the same size/value seaplane. How many gyro pilots are actually LICENSED and how many "signed off for solo". Of the cheaters, how many are flying the model they are signed off to solo in? Don't put it on me! I'm working my butt of for you guys. I'll guarantee you, if I ever get a gyro built, an unlicensed pilot WILL NOT make the first flight. If you want gyros to be legitimate, start with the pilots. I have the NTSB reports to back me up on this one.
 
Ron,

For one thing I have heard roumor that the FAA is planning to make some changes in the ultralight weight requirements soon so people that know are holding off.

Yes, I'm sure that this roumor is always lurking but since 9/11 things are evolving faster now.

The we are on the verge of a freaking War like we have never seen so smart people are saving their duckies.

A gyro is a toy, ever try to eat your toys when things have gone bad and your MRE's have run out.

I have a few boats but that is basically the self reliant coonass in me.

A boat can get your family to safety or provide a means of gathering food for the family.

Think of it this way, a gyro can't put groceries on the table during a Hurricane Katrina type fallout.

Our Country is in bad bad shape and the type of guy that would normally hang his butt out to fly a gyro is most probably presently buying firearms and MRE's, at least I hope so.
 
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Yes Steve.... Shame on me! ;) Not everyone is going to go for their first ride at Bensen Days and then solo the next weekend. But at the same time, a week under the instructors wing at a fly-in can take the average joe a long way. Maybe you will need a second week or even a third, but training is not that hard to get out of the way. Perhaps there is a good flight simulator that can be used to help teach some of the very basic skills needed...? .... I know in the remote control helicopter world, Flight sims are almost a manditory first step.

Gyro, I was only saying that it costs money to do just about anything these days. I hear all the time from guys saying they can't afford this or that, yet every other weekend they are jetting off with the family to some exotic resort, or going on a cruise or whatever.... or they can't afford a gyro yet they got expensive motorcycles or some other hobby. The mini guns may be a business, but I am sure you could also see it as a hobby too, or am I off base?

As for getting the funds for a gyro.... I really don't see it as being that hard, so as long as you have halfway okay credit rating, and especially if you own your house and do not rent. I was looking for money to buy my new truck as I didn't want to finance through the normal means as my new truck is rated as a commercial vehicle and the banks nail you with high interest rates. I was also digging around to see where I could get the cash I was going to need had I won the auction on Maxie Wildes trainer...

Credit cards could have net me enough by themselves to have bought both ( alot of times if you just call the credit card company, they are usually glad to give you a credit increase if you just ask for it, and they can even be swayed to offer you special low interest rates etc... call and ask them! )

Second mortages, or HEL lines of credit was another route, simple to apply for and low payments and decent rate...

Even some places such as capital one finacial offer simple unsecured loans that have good rates and easy to apply for and use.

Again, I don't think it is money that is the problem. Maybe for some of the more expensive gyros, but certainly not the cheaper ones and there is always plenty of those around.
 
I must be the oddball gyro sold on here. Put a for sale sign on mine at our Shelbyville fly-in. Had two very interested buyers the same day. Passed on the first buyer, as I felt he weighed too much for the machine. If firmly believe he would have bought that day if I had sweet talked him. But it wasn't the right thing to do, and told him so. He thanked me for my honesty.

Sold it to the second buyer, a member of our club, about two weeks later. Got $500 less than I really wanted for it, but was willing to take cash in hand, since had already committed to the RAF.

Had two other people that I felt were seriously interested contact me after it was sold.

One other note: Financing the new purchase was easy, as Ron indicated. Had received a credit card check for 3.99% fixed recently, but had thrown it away. Called the company, they rushed me another set of checks, and used one of them to pay for the RAF. No hassle, no loan application, pay at my leisure. Yes, there's some interest involved, but feel that's a minor cost of owning the machine. Couldn't get that good a rate even at our credit unions. Used the proceeds from the single place to pay it down before we even got the first bill.
 
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Mark: I am with you on this. I have never had a bit of trouble selling any gyro I have owned.

I am not the type to sit on something for months to get the top dollar out of it. ...but figured if I give the new buyer a break...it will come back to me someway. So far it has.

Your fine example of discouraging a very hot buyer from buying your Air Command is the perfect example. Your honesty with that guy came back to you in the end.


Stan
 
Ron, I to have met folks that claim to be hard up and then there on a cruise or Hawaii vacation 2 days latter...Lol

True... the miniguns started out as a hobby and turned into a buisness and I did pour some buck into feeding them. I also have on occasion blew 50 bucks in ammo on a weekend shoot. I guess it's no different than pouring gas into a jet ski and speeding across the lake :~) so your not off track, but I have handfuls of guys that like to come out and give me 20 dollars for some trigger time but will not lay down 5k to take one home.

It's taking the big plunge that seperates the men and the boyz!

We here all know what it take to live our dreams and sometimes it just takes the rest a little catching up. perhaps there are a ton of obstacles but a true person who wants to experince the thrill of flight will prevail:plane:
 
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