Breaking news Mentone gyro crash....

Being DEAD vs NEGATIVE

Being DEAD vs NEGATIVE

Tim,

The track record below speaks for itself. Surprise me, lets see the right thing get done this time. Does the PRA's insurance cover damages of this kind ?

I am not naming anyone personally, god knows I could. I have got a long list of could have's should have's and would have's. Like I said before, you are too new to this org to see how things really work.

Yes I have been to 2 Bensen days , 3 or 4 Rotors OVER Carolinas, was a PRA member for 5 or 6 years and have been witness to 4 fatalities. And several other accidents at these events.

Did the PRA come to help Jamie Bodie with medical expenses after he was almost killed ? NO !

Did the PRA stop Bill Ortmayer after I alerted the safey officer to his slip shod way of doing things. NO !

Did the PRA compensate Ashleys widow in any way ? NO !

Has the PRA been on the front lines to make sure only rated pilots are flying at these events and are being checked out prior to flight ? .....ONLY RECENTLY.

Will the PRA make good for Matt and get him in a new gyro after his got demolished ?

Are you going to donate your gyro to Matt ?

I can answer all of those issues. NO, NO, NO, NO, Not likely, Over your dead body. Pretty much sums it up.

It must be great to belong to such a "generous" organization.

Picking on me does not change the facts. Every member is left to fend for themselves. No one takes responsibility. That is why I no longer desire a membership with the PRA. Lastly Tim, my agenda does not make excuses for anyone.

I really feel bad for Matt, god knows how hard it is to build a 2 place, let alone see one get totaled. I know stuff happens, but it does not have to.

Jonathan




What I have seen established is mostly you jumping to negitive conclusions without facts or even ever being at a PRA event or for that matter even a member.

A quick search of your posts will establish that in nanoseconds.

Any chance to back-seat-stab you are first in line, never mind facts or first hand knowledge. :violin:

Already you are spelling out scenarios like you were here and are the pilots best friend. Very sad.

I am all for discussing the accident and bringing some good out of it by learning from it. Jumping to wild conclusions and promoting your personal black-balling agenda is not part of that however.

What you are correct in is that finger-pointing is the real problem and so far all I have seen is YOUR finger. :eek:hwell:
 
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Well established.

Well established.

Tom,

I was good friends with Jamie and I got the blow by blow as to what happened, how it happened, why it was allowed to happened. etc.

It was discussed at length on the old rotorcraft forum. He barely got the blade hub bar machined to fit in the rotor head and he was off flying. No dead weight, no test flights. nothing. Jamie got in, after Si KNEW he had a GHOST in the machine on the PREVIOUS FLIGHT.

That in and of itself is criminal. Any more excuses to make for Mr Smith ?


I'd like to know where you came up with this "fact".
 
Hang in there, Automan. You and I both know that the PRA is a front for a vast criminal conspiracy whose aim is to convert Subaru engines into weapons of mass destruction and take over the World.

This most recent “accident” is all the proof we need.
 
Is it just me or is there a serious...
Grinch.jpg
...on this thread? ;)
 
I don't know how Jonathan sleeps at night knowing all these accidents could've been prevented if he were in charge of all safety matters at all flyins he attends. Does he try to get involved to become a safety official at these events? No. He just does the Monday morning quarterback thing and says "I told you so".
 
Jonathan,

The PRA is a CLUB.

You are confusing the PRA with the Obama administration.. ;)

The PRA is ...

Not the FAA.

Not the NTSB.

Not your insurance company.

Not your parents.

If you fly your gyro into a hurricane the PRA does not provide you with housing, a new gyro and a welfare check.

$hit happens Jonathan.

From your post(s) it does not seem you are in touch with the general world of flying orgs, fly-ins and pilot events.

I try to fly to events almost every weekend and have done so for years. I can tell you first hand that the PRA convention is one of the top events when it comes to safety considerations, support and teamwork.

You are full of advise, but just how much experience do you have running or even working at such events??

Once again you are putting down some of the most dedicated, safety conscious and hard working people I have ever met.

Yet you have so far as I know of never lifted a finger to pitch in or be positively involved in any way.

YOU are a detriment to safety and this sport with your back seat - back stabbing.

But you have been told this by better people than I.....



.
 
Ignorance is not bliss.

Ignorance is not bliss.

Chuck, Tim,

You are both failing to grasp the concept. If you drive a car on the road you need either a learners permit or drivers license in you wallet. If you have a learners permit, a rated driver must be with you while you drive.

Fly ins are the equivalent of driving in New York City. Its BUSY !! Lots of things to pay attention to. The accident pilot has no rating in the FAA data base. What the heck is he flying at a fly in and who ALLOWED him to the flight line anyway ? Oh, wait (enter excuse here) ...

2. Property can be replaced most of the time but people cannot. How would you feel if instead of flying into Matts poor dominator, some little kids became the target, lets say Rons son Kasey were killed by this clown. I know Ron would be in jail right now..... everyone would feel bad and terrible and the defenders would be coming up with some new set of excuses.

3. I can speak for myself, Louis and a bunch of other slightly smarter pilots who will not go to these events anymore until things start to change.

And Chuck, this latest accident proves only one thing. Dumb ass ignorant folks are still running things and its just fine with them. Hey I got an idea, lets haul out the wreckage to the runway and have a "spot landing" contest.

Seriously when Steve Mcgowan and Jim Logan GROUND their gyros and wont fly because of the nonsense they see, just how many more people are going to get hurt before the "me" crowd wakes up ???

The only reason I am picking on the PRA is because it is a PRA sponsored event.....

Prove to me the accident pilot was a properly rated pilot with more than 50 hours under his belt and I will take it all back.

Jonathan
 
Responsibility

Responsibility

Exactly Tim,

It is a "non profit" club that is taking money, sponsoring a flying event. It is therefore in the eyes of the law, responsible for the event, its participants and spectators safety etc. It is not an informal gathering where money is NOT changing hands. There is a big difference.

Look at the big fire the Budweiser sponsored where the Band Great White was playing I forget where..... Over capacity building with flammable foam went up after pyrotechnics caught the ceiling on fire. Everyone BURNED to DEATH. Budweiser was just selling beer.....

Jonathan,

The PRA is a CLUB.
 
Love to go to a Fly-in

Love to go to a Fly-in

Last word from me on this.

I would love to go to a fly in. But I have watched things degenerate to the point where at least once something happens that could have been prevented. It has been discussed before. Simple, Every one gets a trick ribbon to tie around their arm, after passing a nascar style safety check, paperwork check etc. If you are on the flight line or taxiway you had better have the ribbon on to prove that you belong there. I believe it was voiced that only pilots with at least 150hours should fly at a fly in, unless you are flying at times of low activity, but then that gets hard to police too, pick a number ? . This could be instituted on site

and like I said previously, if the accident pilot had the rating, and time under his belt then great I take it all back and file it under stuff happens, but I guarantee you this is some low time newbie without a legal student cert in his pocket and enough time to be flying at a high density event like Mentone.

But your intelligence requires you to pick on me and say I am stabbing people in the back. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If I were to become a member again things would have to change and I do not think it would ever happen. Perceptions and common sense within the group make it impossible for any reason to see the light of day within the PRA.

My 2 cents.

Jonathan

I don't know how Jonathan sleeps at night knowing all these accidents could've been prevented if he were in charge of all safety matters at all flyins he attends. Does he try to get involved to become a safety official at these events? No. He just does the Monday morning quarterback thing and says "I told you so".
 
Oh Jonathan…. Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan. It amazes me that someone with your intelligence cannot seem to grasp commonsensical courteous discourse. Even if you were in charge, the same thing could have happened. As Tim said….shi….er…defecation happens. It is seems your tongue just flaps and flaps, without any apparent control from your brain. Please learn how to get that sucker under some control…..and show some circumstantial understanding.
 
An accident report will hopefully be prepared on this taking into account all the facts.

Hopefully everyone can then learn from it, and try to avoid repeating.

As has been said, experience often involves needless pain.

Just fortunate no-one was seriously hurt, as they could could so easily have been.
 
Guess who's the ONLY one on my IGNORE list?

Begins with J....

Wonder how he FAILED to predict it????

Aluminium hat must be in for service.
 
Is there any news on how the piloit is?
 
Is there any news on how the piloit is?

I watched the crash.

I was curious.

It appeared to me that people were making a real effort to make things as safe as possible.

It appeared to me that Steven had a challenge landing and advanced the throttle to go around. He continued to veer to the right and when his rotor blade struck Matt’s both gyroplanes tipped over. In my opinion there was not much, if any crosswind. Both aircraft sustained substantial damage.

There was an EMT tending to Steven in less than a minute.

Steven remained conscious and told Ed to let the other pilot know that he had liability insurance and he wondered aloud why he had to be the one to have an accident. It appeared to me that he felt badly for his part in this unfortunate incident.

Steven was airlifted to the hospital and he was released this morning with stitches on his neck, a cut on his head and bruised ribs. It is my understanding that this is the extent of his injuries.

I have heard that he has already been in touch with his insurance company and all is well.

He personally picked up the remains of his aircraft this afternoon.

Accidents happen, that is why they call them accidents.

In my opinion things were handled well both before the accident and after the accident.

I hope people will be cooperative with officials and understand why there are rules and procedures in place to make this sort of event as safe as possible.

It was good luck that it was not more serious, it was bad luck that it happened at all.

I am still having a great time at Mentone and I love this event.

Ed and I will stop at Bonneville Speed week on the way home where it is, in my opinion, more dangerous.

Thank you, Vance
 
Thank you Vance, that was a good report.
 
Matt, Had a phone conversation with the accident pilots insurance company (Falcon). After his conversation Matt feels assured the insurance company will treat him fairly. He's not sure when/where the adjuster will show up. The adjuster is supposed to call him.

Later in the afternoon (today, thursday). Matt competed in the time to climb contest in a borrowed gyro.
 
I agree Dave...thank you Vance. The people in charge and helping out are going a fine job and I thank them for it....makes me want to join the PRA. I was there last year and was impressed then too. Bad things can happen regardless of how perfectly things are managed.......
 
Tom,

He barely got the blade hub bar machined to fit in the rotor head and he was off flying. No dead weight, no test flights. nothing. Jamie got in, after Si KNEW he had a GHOST in the machine on the PREVIOUS FLIGHT.

That in and of itself is criminal.

It is also fantasy. I was there, it didn't go down like that at all.

I guess it's a shame all of these accidents didn't happen at an EAA event, the EAA would have surely paid for everything and made everybody happy.
 
Thank you Vance.

Steven , I hope you are ok after what you went through. I am glad I am not in your shoes. It sure sounds like you are taking care of things the best you can. Best wishes to you. Call me if there is anything I can help you with.

Matt , it took me a while to figure out which Matt you are on the forum. I think you are MrGrey. I always liked your posts and your latest aircraft. Thank you.

Ed , I can't imagine all you were going through at the time. Thanks for the information.

I have never met anyone who planned an accident , that is why they call them accidents.
Arnie.
 
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