The Future Of Gyros

One route that looks good to me is to get a Private Pilot certificate for fixed wing, then use the Sport Pilot rules to "transition" to a Sport Pilot - Gyro rating. It minimizes the time needed for training in a gyro and gets you flying much easier.

This is exactly the route I went. I'm glad I did for another reason besides money. I've come to find that my training was deeper and wider than when one goes direct to gyro or sport pilot. Now I can rent fixed-wing whenever I want to go any significant distance as well.
 
They missed one common " Set ".

Pusher/Over.....side by side enclosed HTL without an H.S.

That one should also give the CFI / SP-CFI the option of doing the exam watching from the ground. :yo:

Chuck!!!!

Would you behave your self? I did see the humor in your comment and actually chuckled when I read it, but you know there a a significant group among us who won't see the humor and will get personally offended and see it as a battle cry. So stop already with the "fighting words". Didn't your mother ever teach you, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Be Good !!!!

Gyro Doug
 
Oh Dear God what was I thinking?

It must be now that I am retired and no longer fly in the war zones in Africa I crave danger and this is the only option I have available at the moment. :humble:

Do you think having poked the hornets nest they will start buzzing?

On the other hand you must admit that it is a special " Set ".
 
Chuck having flown the 'war zones' in Africa, (my excuse is that I was out of a job and had a family to feed), my own training in a stabless RAF is not so much a craving for danger or death wish, simply a matter of what is conveniently available within parameters that to me are acceptable. Your very often trumpeted views on the matter have been heard by all and sundry to the nth degree. You are not so much poking the hornets nest as being excruciatingly boring. Most people by now would probably prefer the f****ing hornets quite frankly.:yo:

Doug thanks for clearing that up, sounds all very sensible and do-able.

Carl the Sport Pilot course just purchased for my son from King is almost identical to the Private course with minor differences. It was cost not knowledge that caused us to go that route.
 
If I had to define sets of gyroplanes, I would do it differently-

Tricycle gear stable
Tricycle gear unstable
Tail Dragger stable
Tail dragger unstable

Repeat all of the above for all up weight of greater or lower than 800 lbs.

These are the really important differences IMHO. The stable/unstable difference is the most important one, and is also the harder one to define - that is why it was not included in the existing sets. The current sets allow a pilot to get certified in a Sparrow Hawk and then go fly a stock RAF - which is a completely different animal.

Udi
 
Ready-to-go factory built aircraft meeting ASTM standards will also improve safety because hair-brain "innovations" or unwise kit changes would be at a minimum.

The Uk is like that now. Virtually all factory built machines. No experimentation or innovation. Just bland sameness.
 
Chuck having flown the 'war zones' in Africa, (my excuse is that I was out of a job and had a family to feed), my own training in a stabless RAF is not so much a craving for danger or death wish, simply a matter of what is conveniently available within parameters that to me are acceptable. Your very often trumpeted views on the matter have been heard by all and sundry to the nth degree. You are not so much poking the hornets nest as being excruciatingly boring. Most people by now would probably prefer the f****ing hornets quite frankly.:yo:

Resasi, you obviously did not get drift of what I was saying......it was not the danger factor of flying a HTL stabless gyro I was alluding to it was the wrath of the group who own and fly them that I meant.

Thank you for expressing your feelings.

If I'm boring the way to fix that is don't read my posts as it seems we have very little in common anyhow.
 
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Chuck,

What do you think?

Posted By Hognose

I don't think gyroplanes would have been included in SP/LSA at all -- they'd have been excluded, like helicopters are -- if it weren't for Marty Weaver having been deeply involved in the original rule making. We caught a break in having an experienced, respected ex-Army helicopter pilot (and FAA insider) in their world who also had one foot in our world.

Jim
 
So?

So?

The Uk is like that now. Virtually all factory built machines. No experimentation or innovation. Just bland sameness.

There would be nothing to prevent people from building kits. They can do that now. However, many would like the option of a ready-made unit.

"Sameness" is not always bad.
 
Chuck,

What do you think?

Posted By Hognose

I don't think gyroplanes would have been included in SP/LSA at all -- they'd have been excluded, like helicopters are -- if it weren't for Marty Weaver having been deeply involved in the original rule making. We caught a break in having an experienced, respected ex-Army helicopter pilot (and FAA insider) in their world who also had one foot in our world.

Jim

Here is what I think:::

Quote from Hognose::


The magic words you need to convince the FAA are, "equivalent level of safety." If we can show by statistically significant data that SLSA gyroplanes are as safe as other SLSA and are safer than experimental/amateur-built gyroplanes (which latter point would have to be the case if they were as safe as other SLSA), we would be in good shape on this. Without that info, their bias will be towards rejecting the application

When Marty or someone else can have a HTL gyro with no H.S. ( In Marty's case a stock RAF 2000 ) test flown by a qualified group of people and submit the documentation that guarantees that the machine is stable in all flight regimes and will not power push over then I will be prepared to change my opinion on this subject.

What do you think Jim?
 
We would not be sweating this at all if it were not for the widow-maker reputation gyroplanes have, which we acquired thanks to PPO's.

Remove the PPO deaths of pilots and passengers and gyros stats are as good or better than the rest of sport aviation.

Plus the hand-full of experienced pilots, CFIs and low-time pilots we loose every year to flawed designs would still be here popularizing our sport and adding to the market share.

Then there is all of those additional machines that would still be around / on the market... vendors...

For the want of a nail the shoe is lost, for the want of a shoe the horse is lost, for the want of ....




.
 
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The "Sets" Are Likely to be Moot...

The "Sets" Are Likely to be Moot...

... the FAA has heard the gyronauts crying out in the wilderness, and the new NPRM sayeth that sets are no more. Almost all the complicated signoffs that bulked up the 2004 rule are going the way of the Low Frequency Radio Range.

Instead, a Sport Pilot will be -- when the rule takes effect -- a "Sport Pilot-Rotorcraft-Gyroplane." It will say so right on your certificate, and you won't have to carry your logbook and signoffs to prove it.

No signoffs will be required to transition to different types or concepts of gyroplane, as long as it meets Sport Pilot limitations. (Most 2-seat sleds don't as their MTOW is too high). This is not the same thing as saying you don't need training to go from a Dom to an ELSA RAF to a Little Wing, or vice versa -- a sensible pilot will always take advantage of another's experience. But the FAA isn't going to make you do it. It's your responsibility now.

Also, when the rule is final and takes effect, Sport Pilots will require a checkride with a DPE, not just a CFI any longer. This brings the DPE shortage vback front and center. We have a critical nationwide shortage of DPEs and gyro CFIs. Paradoxically, the lack of examiners and instructors leads to a lack of student starts, which means that even the few examiners and instructors we have don't have an optimum level of work.

People will more readily engage in an activity they see others enjoying. I don't know about you, but it was a gyro pilot who got me interested in these machines, at least interested enough to catch a flight (and get deeply hooked). So if we grow the pilot population, it will start to grow on its own as the infected spread the flying virus.

cheers

-=K=-
 
Here is what I think:::

Quote from Hognose::


The magic words you need to convince the FAA are, "equivalent level of safety." If we can show by statistically significant data that SLSA gyroplanes are as safe as other SLSA and are safer than experimental/amateur-built gyroplanes (which latter point would have to be the case if they were as safe as other SLSA), we would be in good shape on this. Without that info, their bias will be towards rejecting the application

When Marty or someone else can have a HTL gyro with no H.S. ( In Marty's case a stock RAF 2000 ) test flown by a qualified group of people and submit the documentation that guarantees that the machine is stable in all flight regimes and will not power push over then I will be prepared to change my opinion on this subject.

What do you think Jim?

Jim, I answered your question.

When are you going to answer mine?

And I'm still fascinated by your report that your power off rate of descent doubled with a H.S on an RAF.......I finally figured out what happened, you must have conducted the test on the down wind side of a mountain...have you tried it in a still calm airmass?
 
Or to step outside the law.

I still smile over " Rules are for the obedience of fools and for the guidance of wise men."
 
Do you people REALLY know what your talking about,, REALLY..

Sp, ElSA, whatever,, the FED has a hand on all training goin on thats legal..

As far as Sport pilot,,give me a break,, Gravity is GRAVITY,, so why not go for the whole ball a wax and get a recreational.. Same Time,, just have to have a physical..

Then the old guy's that want to stay YUNG are the ones thats jumping on the SP wagon,, because of the physical,,, and if they have lost it due to health problems,, That has to be corrected or still No Flying..

Now a prospective student has to have they're Original birth certificate, a back ground check, if they're not a US citizen,, and the CFI's have to go thru the TSA security program online or be considered a VIOLATION..

In Other words,,, It's TUFF ,, is it really worth the small pittance and have to put up with the worries of a CRAZY ASS student that won't listen and get's to be part of the scenery.

Guy's,,, There's a LOTT more to it than it seems.. but who the hell am I to be talkin....DUH!!
 
Steve --I guess then that you not a fan of the Sport Pilot program -Im now a sport pilot and glad to be one. Yes I had some Medical Issues but I always maintained a special Issuance --but to be honest I got damned tired of being treated like crap by the FAA -so I let my medical expire and now fly under the sport pilot provisions.

I spent THIRTY THOUSAND dollars of my opwn money to get my LAST Physical and Special Issuance --because the FAA had their head up their asses --the DR's were Osteopathic not IMHO real physicians and they didnt understand the most current medical information. I got it resolved spending a boatload of my OWN money and 10 months of my time --only to be told -when it was finally issued that I had to renew it in two months. Yeah Right --in 48 years of flying ( probably longer than youve been alive--just a guess) Ive only flown at night to remain current and the number of times I"ve had more than one passenger was minimal--so I elected to go with the Sport Pilot program. I and others may be old --but we know how to fly and for the most part there is not a single person that I know who would knowlingly jeopardize himself or others in order to keep flying--

I personally have made a deal with my Cardiologist (who is a pilot) --If he tells me that I should no longer fly --I WONT


So you can stick your opinion where the sun dont shine !!!

Oh BTW --Im self trained and proud of it --my opinions of instructors is ----well ---biased--
 
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.......We have a critical nationwide shortage of DPEs and gyro CFIs. Paradoxically, the lack of examiners and instructors leads to a lack of student starts, which means that even the few examiners and instructors we have don't have an optimum level of work.

........So if we grow the pilot population, it will start to grow on its own as the infected spread the flying virus.

cheers

-=K=-
Kevin, everytime I've said this, and I have many times, (although maybe not quite so eloquently!) I got a bunch of flack saying that the present instructors don't have enough students the way it is and if we have more CfIs then it just adds to the problem. Maybe forum members will understand it better the way you have said it!

We do need more instructors which will beget more students which will beget more instructors ad infinitum! Everyone comprenda?!! Probably not.
 
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