Breaking news Mentone gyro crash....

Lost me ?

Lost me ?

He spoke to Joe Swanton and was instructed to have the card endorsed by his CFI Greg Gremminger before he would receive his "dot" and be allowed to fly at the airport. At the time of the accident Greg was not there and apparently Steve did not either fully understand he could not fly or just ignored the rules that had just been plainly spelled out at the briefing. [/QUOTE]

Ok,Ron.......sounds like he was legal NOT !!!....:der:
 
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He spoke to Joe Swanton and was instructed to have the card endorsed by his CFI Greg Gremminger before he would receive his "dot" and be allowed to fly at the airport. At the time of the accident Greg was not there and apparently Steve did not either fully understand he could not fly or just ignored the rules that had just been plainly spelled out at the briefing.

Ok, sounds like he was legal....:der:[/QUOTE]

Johnathon, he is a rated pilot that can fly anywhere he pleases within his endorsements. The PRA is not the FAA they cannot revoke his license or suspend it. In fact, according to the FAA and PRA convention rules since he has a license, that qualifies him as a competent pilot. The fact that they wanted to go a step further and get a CFI recommendation goes to show that we tried. Just like you can't stop a drunk from getting in a car and driving you can't stop someone from jumping into a gryo and flying. If a drunk driver is not legal to drive yet hits someone or something his insurance covers it. I expect to see the same from aviation insurance... and so far it has. I don't know where you fly but a pilot license usually means that you should be competent to fly and make the right decisions. I really don't want this forum or discussion hurting me or my chances or giving anyone any ideas that can complicate this for me. I appreciate your concerns Jonathan and looking out for me in areas others may not see but I just want this to go smoothly and not try to tip off anyone to something untrue or compromising.
 
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.....When the dust settles and this whole thing unfolds I will accept an apology from each of you, (somehow I doubt I will get so much as one only more insults as if I was the cause of the whole thing from 900 miles away ?)

likewise if I am wrong I will publicly do same. However unless the database is way wrong, and I have a hard time believing it is after...years, hmmm.....
J

Once again Jonathan, you're not keeping your word. This is becoming a habit with you.
 
A little bit pregnant ?

A little bit pregnant ?

I do not have his record in front of me but if he was told to see a CFI to get signed off, something is not right.


Jonathan
 
Preventing pilots who lack the minimum safe proficiency level from flying at a gyroplane event is a very tough thing. Here in Utah, we may have the opportunity to move our annual event to a new location in 2010, one which provides terrific new benefits. But, it's also a public-use airport, where we can't deny runway access to anyone who meets the legal minimum qualifications to fly a machine with an N-number. We need to make a move like this to grow, but we're losing the control we had at the private strip we've used the last two years.

It sounds as if the breakdown in the system at Mentone wasn't as egregious as first described, but this is still a puzzle for the PRA. This should be the one place we get this right. The airport is private, completely under the control of the PRA during the event. Reasonable precautions for screening pilot proficiciency have been put in place, but enforcement didn't happen.

I'm not throwing stones because I don't know the answer, but perhaps the passcard needs to be revised into something that can be spotted by the ground crew before a pilot is allowed to take the active runway.

Without the benefit of hindsight, Greg might also have signed him off, with no change in outcome.

Whatever lessons PRA takes from this, I feel reinforced in my opinion that a gyroplane fly-in remains one of the most dangerous places to fly a gyroplane, requiring pessimistic assumptions and wide safety margins compared to flying alone at home.
 
Matt you are the man!

So much fun to party with, great attitude, funny, and born with an old soul wise beyond your years.
It was a pleasure to meet you last year but this year was even more fun.

If your gyro hadn't been there, one or many of the folks in the stands would have been seriously hurt or probably dead. I talked to a young man who was sitting there and started running away, but he said he would have never made it if it had not hit your gyro.

Anyway, can't wait to see you and your new ride next year.

Oh and another positive note, a new build thread?!!
 
Oh come on,I pointed out the truth in another thread, we all know Ron paid Steve to be a kamikaze pilot and take out the competition for the climb contest.

that 618 Dom might have gave Ron a run for his money with Matt at the controls.


J/K
 
Last word from me on this.

Yet you still babble on, still jumping to conclusions, looking for any thing you can twist into a back-stab.

You are not a man of your word.

Hey Jonathan. You have a short memory. You posted this back on post number 51? We'd appreciate it if you'd keep your word.

And even after this reminder he still posts on...

The only reason I am picking on the PRA is because it is a PRA sponsored event.....

Prove to me the accident pilot was a properly rated pilot with more than 50 hours under his belt and I will take it all back.

Jonathan

John, you by your own word now need to "Take it all back".

We are waiting on this and your apology.

Again, not responsible for your own actions but willing to point all kinds of fingers and tell other people how things should be done, when you do nothing yourself or even keep your word.





Well he did in fact have his rating... sounds like someones eating crow. :der:

Ok,Ron.......sounds like he was legal NOT !!!....:der:

What kind of "reading the FARs" that you claim to do is it going to take for you to understand that the PRA does not make anything "legal" it takes the FAA to do that.

You can't even understand the fly-in passcard system. Why? other than because of the fact you don't want to, perhaps because you have never attended, worked at or event tried to find out.

All you are looking for are things to gripe and back-stab with to fulfill your personal blackballing agenda.

Still looking for that apology.
 
I thought Mentone was a privately owned airport and you have to get permission to fly their. We members own it. I know over the years they have not let people fly because they could not get a CFI to sign them off and a pass card. They would not let Racer fly this year until he went up with Ron Award and Racer had a sign off from a CFI he made sure he understood the rules before he drove 22 hours and had the right paper work so he could fly. PRA did not like the CFI that had signed him off. I'm sure Ron can confirm this. Is that why we have the pass cards and then get the dots so that the airboss will know that we are legal to fly and he will not let you fly if you do not have this dot even if you flew in. Maybe I have this all wrong and someone will surely set me straight here.
 
Oh come on,I pointed out the truth in another thread, we all know Ron paid Steve to be a kamikaze pilot and take out the competition for the climb contest.

that 618 Dom might have gave Ron a run for his money with Matt at the controls.


J/K

I KNEW there had to be a conspiracy somewhere!
I'm surprised Johnathan didn't see it!
 
I thought Mentone was a privately owned airport and you have to get permission to fly their. We members own it. I know over the years they have not let people fly because they could not get a CFI to sign them off and a pass card. They would not let Racer fly this year until he went up with Ron Award and Racer had a sign off from a CFI he made sure he understood the rules before he drove 22 hours and had the right paper work so he could fly. PRA did not like the CFI that had signed him off. I'm sure Ron can confirm this. Is that why we have the pass cards and then get the dots so that the airboss will know that we are legal to fly and he will not let you fly if you do not have this dot even if you flew in. Maybe I have this all wrong and someone will surely set me straight here.

Hello Matthew,

My facilities guide shows C92 is open to the public. It lists the activation date as 3/47.

Most people complied with the request of the PRA, Todd included.

Todd did get to participate in the fly in after he demonstrated his skill to people familiar with the facility. Todd is a student pilot.

Todd also took some instruction from Ira at the event and told me he found it valuable. He was particularly delighted to learn about reciprocals.

As has been pointed out, I am ignorant as to what the FARs say in relation to keeping a certificated pilot in an N numbered aircraft from flying at an open to the public airport so I do not have the knowledge to straighten you out.

Thank you, Vance
 
Jonathan is the perfect example of the idiots he keeps saying the PRA is.

He has been proven to be wrong on all of his previous statements about this incident, including the pilot not being rated. Yet, he still flaps his gums, which none of us seem to be able to stop.

And, as others besides myself have pointed out, he's not a man of his word, either(post #51). Do all of yourselves a favor, as I have done, and put him on your ignore list. If no one responds to his rants, he will eventually get tired of arguing with himself, and we'll get some peace.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever hear an apology from him, as he's found himself what he feels is a nit-picking out from an apology, i.e., Steve not getting his pass card endorsed.

Matt, my hat is off to you 100-fold! I've enjoyed watching you mature, both as a pilot, and as individual, since I first met you at Shelbyville.:yo:

And kudos to all the other members trying to keep this a positive experience. It sounds like this incident could have caused injury or death to bystanders, if it hadn't been for Matt's gyro intervening. Yes, a mistake may have been made, but many people learned a good lesson from it, and machines can always be rebuilt.

It's really a shame Jonathan can't take a lesson from you, Matt.
 
I do not have his record in front of me but if he was told to see a CFI to get signed off, something is not right.


Jonathan

Jonathan, I have lost my respect for you and your big mouth. I am personally fed up with it. I am tired of your rants and so called safety advise, when you seem to run your god dam mouth endlessly at things you have no first hand experience of.

You have never been to Mentone, yet you blab off about how unsafe it is to fly there, and how the airboss crew and safety officers don't give a rats ass.... And now your blabing your mouth about how this pilot wasn't legal to fly there, how the staff should have not allowed this guy to fly, etc....

Just as Matt said, this guy had every right in the world to fly there. He was rated. The only issue was the airboss staff did not know him and wanted a reccomendation from his CFI.... I had to go through the same thing, and you would too even though you have flown " 250 safe hours " ............

The only ball that was dropped was somehow the guy did end up in the air before that CFI signed the card. I believe full and well the pilot did not intentionally try to break any rules, it would have been very easy to be confused if you could or couldn't fly had anyone been in the same circumstances as this pilot. I also do not fault the airboss crew for " allowing " him to fly without the dot. There is alot going on between the air and the ground and it is overwhelming, to expect the airboss staff to see a small dime sized colored sticker placed randomly on a gyro or the pilot himself is pretty tough.

Why don't you pony up the 50 bucks and become a member again, and put aside the time to drive there and be a part of the airboss staff to insure safety to your standards. I know you won't do it.... but if your not willing to do more than run your mouth about what others should be doing, what your saying doesn't carry much weight IMHO.

You backed yourself into a corner in this thread and it is best to just say you jumped to conclusions and you were wrong and move on. If you ever did decide to go to Mentone ( or any of the other fly-ins ) and be a part of the safety team / airboss crew, I can assure you that your help would be gladly accepted. Until then have a little more respect for the efforts of all those that are there helping and trying to do what they can to have a safe and fun fly-in.
 
I thought Mentone was a privately owned airport and you have to get permission to fly their. We members own it. I know over the years they have not let people fly because they could not get a CFI to sign them off and a pass card. They would not let Racer fly this year until he went up with Ron Award and Racer had a sign off from a CFI he made sure he understood the rules before he drove 22 hours and had the right paper work so he could fly. PRA did not like the CFI that had signed him off. I'm sure Ron can confirm this. Is that why we have the pass cards and then get the dots so that the airboss will know that we are legal to fly and he will not let you fly if you do not have this dot even if you flew in. Maybe I have this all wrong and someone will surely set me straight here.

They did not allow Todd to fly when he got there because he was a student pilot and they did not know him. They had me fly his gyro to make sure his gyro was safe, and he flew with a CFI named Ira to get a signoff on his pass card.
 
Besides this accident, the worst bit of pilotage was from a well known and totally checked out gyro CFI in a Red Sparrowhawk during the egg drop contest......... Accidents can happen to anyone and everyone, requardless of what rating they hold in their back pocket or whether their pass card was endorsed or not. The PRA does go above and beyond in my opinion to try to insure only safe competent pilots are allowed to fly there during the event.
 
I find value in Jonathan’s posts and this thread has over 5,000 hits so apparently others at least find entertainment in the exchange.

He is able to see things that have eluded me and state them in a way that I am sometimes able to imagine them.

It is no wonder he is a little gruff with the darkness he sees around him.

I admire his ability to state fantasy as though it were fact and continue forward when each of these facts is dismantled.

I would not want to be the style or etiquette police as I often lack style myself.

Some here have not been nice to him and do what they are accusing him of doing and yet he comes back for more, validating my hypothesis that insults and degradation are not effective in modifying behavior.

Thank you, Vance
 
I find value in Jonathan’s posts and this thread has over 5,000 hits so apparently others at least find entertainment in the exchange.

He is able to see things that have eluded me and state them in a way that I am sometimes able to imagine them.

It is no wonder he is a little gruff with the darkness he sees around him.

I admire his ability to state fantasy as though it were fact and continue forward when each of these facts is dismantled.

I would not want to be the style or etiquette police as I often lack style myself.

Some here have not been nice to him and do what they are accusing him of doing and yet he comes back for more, validating my hypothesis that insults and degradation are not effective in modifying behavior.

Thank you, Vance


Vance I know it has been a while, but remember back in school when two people would start a fist fight and everyone would gather round to watch? It is that same type of thing with threads like this where people are tuning in to see the back and forth fighting between Automan and others..... That is partly why the high number of hits this thread has recieved.
 
Tim O"Connor.........if the viewers here receive a full apology from the person mentioned, I will sponsor $50 for a new membership to someone that wants it and will appreciate it. I bet that my offer has very little threat to my wallet............but.........it will be worth it if I am wrong! By the way, I will keep my word if a full apology is stated to the viewers here........ I will state I was wrong and will run a thread seeking the new PRA member gratus Stan. Stan
 
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