Columbine vic's dad talks to CONGRESS

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Dad of daughter shot at Columbine High was asked to address Congress the other day. Here is what he said.

I agree with this guy. Seperation of church and state was never intended to remove GOD from government and nation. It was meant to stop government from telling citizens that there was a single, specific national church, that was in control of the government and vice versa, that citizens were required to belong to - a church OF state such as the Church of England. It was the MAIN reason our founding fathers fled from the UK in the first place and decided to hew out a new republic. Constitution was never intended as a means of wholesale deletion of GOD from our public forums and institutions. The role of a judge, ANY judge, is to interpret the SPIRIT of the law, not the narrowest definition of its written content, and by that I mean the spirit in which it was drafted. Modern judges stopped doing this long ago. The spirit in which a law is written, the thinking of the authors, is far less important to them than their egos and flair for incredibly stupid judgements such as removing all crosses from federal properties (like that's really going to happen at Arlington Cemetary, HAHA!!!) because they are religious symbols. OR how about removing hte 10 commandments from a county courthouse building? I mean, get real. Any idiot with a peanut for a brain can figure out what they meant when they wrote the laws of seperation of church and state.
 
Straight from the horse's mouth :

"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.

We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries."


-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320. This is his second kown use of the term "wall of separation," here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter. This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause: Reynolds (98 US at 164, 1879); Everson (330 US at 59, 1947); McCollum (333 US at 232, 1948)
 
I love logic!
Thanks for posting.
 
Here's a transcript of the Danbury letter where Jefferson coins the phrase "separation of church and state." The piece in brackets was in the original draft. Jefferson removed it, with a note in the margin that he did this to avoid offending members of his party in the eastern states.


Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

Regardless of confusion about which definition of establishment you select ("let's go into that establishment" vs "he supports the establishment of a new trade route") the sidebar comment in the draft gives you a clear window into the spirit the writer intended.
 
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While of course I agree with the statements that the guns were not to blame in Columbine (Guns don't kill people, although they do make it a helluvalot easier), the spiritual portions of this statement actually do highlight the need for the absolute separation of Church & State. His poem & his words are completely suffused with the concept that without God & religion (the use of the job title "god", rather than the diety's name, marks him as Christian), there can be no good, that all good can only occur under the aegis of religion, that an athiest or agnostic is somehow more biased toward evil simply because they don't follow a given faith, or believe in a supreme being.

That America was founded primarily by Christians, and largely under Christian ideals, cannot be denied. But the founding fathers were wise enough to know that freedom was more important than religion, and if you base your government on ANY religious ideals, then you are establishing a de facto state religion.

Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's.
 
The reason this

The reason this

The reason any of this has to be discussed is because of the wholesale failure of public education, or rather public indoctrination.

Destruction by design.

J
 
While of course I agree with the statements that the guns were not to blame in Columbine (Guns don't kill people, although they do make it a helluvalot easier), the spiritual portions of this statement actually do highlight the need for the absolute separation of Church & State. His poem & his words are completely suffused with the concept that without God & religion (the use of the job title "god", rather than the diety's name, marks him as Christian), there can be no good, that all good can only occur under the aegis of religion, that an athiest or agnostic is somehow more biased toward evil simply because they don't follow a given faith, or believe in a supreme being.

That America was founded primarily by Christians, and largely under Christian ideals, cannot be denied. But the founding fathers were wise enough to know that freedom was more important than religion, and if you base your government on ANY religious ideals, then you are establishing a de facto state religion.

Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's.

Thomas Jefferson was a Freethinker (deist).

Leon
(kc0iv)
 
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