PRA Magazine and Website Ideas (was "PRA Board")

Vance, you have typed my thoughts exactly.

Hard working PRA members that have taken thousands of dollars out of their pockets with out hesitation time and again, put their butts on the line underwriting the risky venture of buying an airport for the PRA as well has hundreds of hours of volunteer time.. smart enough as successful business people to set it up as advised by legal counsel get what? Thanks? No, they get nit-pick blasted with ridiculous hypothetical BS by people with an unrelated personal agenda. But that is another thread entirely.

I would like to someday be a part of helping the PRA enact Herons’ idea as stated above even if it comes with no thanks and a lot of back-seat BS.

I as I assume you are also, a bit tired of the real workers being too busy to comment or defend themselves whilst armchair pilots throw stones (gravel).

At least if those who criticize are PRA members they are showing the minimum initiative and are able to lift one cheek out of the chair to get $35 out of their wallet ;) And they can vote in the elections, assuming they can make the effort to get to the mailbox with a stamped envelope.

I guess this is were I come into contention with Kerry’s gold-nugget concept. I am a big fan of free speech but we do have to keep the gravel out at some point yes? I think opinions that come from people willing to go through the effort of joining the PRA are more likely to be ‘less gravel’.

I firmly believe the motto ‘Ask not what the PRA can do for you but ask what you can do for the PRA’.

I am willing to accept that a committee may do something I don’t like and that I advised against. I will still plug on where I can. That is better than a dictatorship, and just because a committee does not agree with me does not mean it is a dictatorship.

I guess I have a dream.. Someday I want to work out Heron’s plan on paper and with council and propose it to the board. If it works you guys make sure I give credit to Heron for the idea! And don’t forget not to let me bash the board or their members if they turn me down!!

Positiveness is a good point of yours also. Constructive criticism can come in many forms, such as proposing your own solution in detail for public scrutiny not just ripping on people for every thing you can think of (my point). Solutions are potentally viable from any souce (Kerry's point) but who's advice are you more likely to listen to on flying your gyro- A fixed winger or non-pilot or a gyro pilot (Ron's point).
 
Hopefully I'm not repeating what someone else has already said, but maybe we could just email the magazines to members, that would ensure that only the members get them.
 
Is there a problem with non-members getting mags? I give extra copies away to try and get people intrested in gyros...
 
I said here many times, I will buy the magazine the very moment it is available to non-members.
And I accepted the INVITATION Tim and Tom made me, few weeks back, but 4 hurricanes later I can not trade gas and food for PRA fees, and as I said I think my first club is in more need of my money that the BIG Kahuna!
I did offer suggestions, I do use irony, sarcasm, and jokes to get people to participate, even de angry ones, I am no humble, and I am a lot arrogant.
So what?
Get the nuggets and do something 'cause I can't . . .
few years ago (3) I had a job, not too bad . . .but I offered to quit and go work for the PRA, on comission, I make money for us and get a piece of it. everyojne wins and I think I can get more people to work full time in gyros if we can get them some kind of financial help.
We have the resources (members) and we can do it with planiing and leadership.
One dollar a month buys 2 new pilots a month and that is 24 new members per year, an accountant in the room? :D
We can finance the CFI's and get paid back with interests and training hours, same for the students, the snow ball effect will be noticeable in couple of years.
Where is you plan? Lets work together . . .
Heron
 
My plan(s)

To make the magzine better: write and submit articles and encourge others to do so also.

To make the PRA stronger and better. Evanglise gyros 24/7 pass out flyers, take my gyro to airshows, fly my gyro. Be nice, answer questions I have heard a hundred times with a smile on my face.

To correct the misconeptions: I explain to closed minded FWers that declare my machine unsafe how gyros work and about CLT and HS. Maybe 1 out of 100 will get it.

Make the PRA Board better: Pay my dues, vote my heart and mind.

Make the fly-ins better: Attend. Bring a gyro if I can.

Make the Fourm better: Post my mind, apologise, dontate, help out newcomers anyway I can. No question is to dumb or beneath me.

Make Ron better: Got me there... ;)

Our Plan: Once I have paid my dues and have been around the block.. hopefully I will find an oppertunity to help the PRA get more airports located where they can do the most good for rotational events (pardon the pun). If the PRA wont help me with this that is ok. I will try and maybe I can do it anyway then donate the airport if I have to.
 
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Tim, buying an airport will not help make a convention or fly-in money. Airports are free. There are small airports everywhere where fly-ins can take place without charge.

The "cost" is work effort by volenteers and some cost for food, awards, etc. Getting volenteers that will actually do the work is the hard part. If that was available we could have fly-ins all over the US every month.

You mentioned an airport as a "funding source". I don't believe airports make money. They normally need to be funded by a city or with other tax money. Do you know of any privately owned airport that makes a profit?
 
Ken,
I am to new to have much first hand knowledge of many airports and their owners. You are absolutely correct. If airports are not a profitable form of business then my whole plan is awash.

I can tell you that people I know that get the money for the hangers, fuel and pilot shop make buckets of cash at my local airport but perhaps this is a also an incorrect assumption as my local airport is run by the county.

It seems to me that I have seen airports that did function wholly as business entities though so perhaps there is hope yet. I will have to look into this.

Can someone with fist hand knowledge here please either crush my hopes or give me some hope?
 
Tim O' your plan is good, more power to you . . .but it wasn't you I challenged is that guy that does not like to do the gravel work . . .
Cya
Heron
 
FYI, no intention in this post to point fingers at anybody or hurt anybody else's feelings. But someone should speak up about the Texas convention, and I guess it's me.

Here's what happens when you do a national PRA fly-in, guys. (Based on 2002 Convention in Texas)

1. We had three PRA chapters working on this for 9 months. (Preparing for the convention was THE activity in PRA Chapters 78 and 007.)

2. Waxahachie Airport manager was super guy, but his airport board (which set policy) required a $1 million liability insurance policy. (I'm still rankled about this.)

3. We tried to get more participation with "Bring your gyro, get in free." (This worked--there were more rotorcraft at the Texas convention than at Mentone in 2003 or 2004.)

4. We had committees for safety, briefings, tents, accommodations, RV/tents, programs, awards, commercial, flightline, contests, public relations, forums, etc. (In short, we worked our buns off to make the convention happen.)

5. We planned for much public interest and attendance because Dallas was 1/2 hour north. (This didn't happen--Dallas news media didn't promo the event.)

6. We had to put in electrical hook-ups for the RVs--then city made us leave them in the ground. (Big loss, there.)

7. We promoted the event by inviting every EAA chapter in Texas, every PRA chapter, and every PRA MEMBER in the US by e-mail and by mail. (Big effort, and we still don't know if it was worth it.)

8. We had everything from a female gorilla (not me, guys!) to a beauty contest, and what I still think was the best PRA convention yet.

9. We could control a lot, but the weather did us in. Windy, windy, windy, with rain, and Saturday the only really good flying day. (Good-bye, crowds!)

10. There was no convention at Mentone, but the local guys there held their own fly-in during the same time period as the national convention. (Result, these guys didn't have to go to Texas to go to a gyro fly-in.)

11. We lost about $5,000 of PRA money after everything was accounted for, and there are hard feelings yet about this in Texas and elsewhere. (One result was that PRA Chapter 78 dropped out of PRA completely and now functions on its own. PRA Chapter 007 has shrunk to a fraction of its former size.)

12. SUMMARY -- the impression I have is that Hades would ice over before any PRAers in Texas would even think about holding a national convention here again. (And I'm not buying any ice skates.)

My perspective? -- I'd like to have other places to go see gyros than Mentone, 1000 miles away. But sponsor a national PRA fly-in? Once burned, twice shy!
 
Kerry, I'm not one to say 'I told you so!' only because I haven't. But as soon as I heard you guys had convinced the board, after several tries, to have the Convention in Texas I said to my self, self they don't have any idea what they are getting into! It was convenient for me since it was only four hours away but you instantly had my sympathy for what you were about to endure.

Chapter 62 hosted the 1990 Convention in Hearne, TX., as you know, and from that experience I learned to appreciate what the volunteers do to put on the Convention. Moving it around the country sounds good on paper and to those that don't want to drive very far but in reality it is very difficult to stage a successful one. Having a home base where the costs are pretty much fixed and known is a real plus. And with the improvements at Mentone it doesn't make sense to hold it anywhere else.

You guys did a great job all the way around with first rate facilities and a good program. But in my opinion you guys picked a poor time of year to have it. But then having it in Texas in July wouldn't have been swift either! I also don't believe the Mentone fly-in affected it one way or another. All of the main players from Mentone were in Texas. Why single out the local Mentone flyers as a problem, why not also recognize that there isn't much, if any, attendance from West of the Rockies? The number of machines at the Texas Convention really doesn't mean much when compared to the '03 or '04 Mentone attendance. Aviation event attendance in general is down all over. Bensen Days '03 looked like a ghost town compare to the other years I had been there.

Every time the Convention is brought up and someone wants to move it I end up sounding like a broken record when I continue to say; let the Convention home stay in Mentone and let the PRA officially recognize regional fly-ins like Bensen Days, ROC, El Mirage, one in the Pacific Northwest and possibly Shelbyville. And then provide some incentive for people to attend; like the competition program you guys put on in Texas.

It is my understanding that the PRA Board will entertain invitations to have the Convention away from Mentone. This is one thing I don't agree with the board on and if any Chapter is seriously thinking about hosting one then all I have to say is good luck cause you are going to need it!

Kerry, I owe you some Mentone '04 pictures so if I don't email them soon then remind me.
 
rehler said:
You mentioned an airport as a "funding source". I don't believe airports make money. They normally need to be funded by a city or with other tax money. Do you know of any privately owned airport that makes a profit?

The Mentone convention is one of the biggest money makers for the PRA. It does make money for the PRA. The PRA might not make the same money if the convention was held at a different location as demonstrated when the Convention was moved to Texas one year. And please don't let that statement become a "Texas Convention" tangent.
 
gyroguy said:
10. There was no convention at Mentone, but the local guys there held their own fly-in during the same time period as the national convention. (Result, these guys didn't have to go to Texas to go to a gyro fly-in.)

You're making it sound as if it was a requirement that ALL PRA members attend. NEW FLASH! I'm not driving to Texas for a Convention. Several reasons why - distance, weather, cost for the trip, distance. And there were a lot of people that felt the same way and ALL of them were from the upper mid-west (Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, etc.).

Now I'm all for having "a" Convention at a different location. But to have "the" Convention at a different airport, in a different state, at a different time, I don't think it was a very smart idea. Consistency is important and if the PRA keeps moving the Convention around to different locations, and hold it at different times, people are going to quit attending, membership is going to drop, and the PRA is going to be even worse off.

I'm all for multiple Conventions in different states. But since the PRA has an airport they can call their own, they should at least have a Convention in Mentone every year.
 
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Don, I agree consistency is a great value.

As you said though it is a long drive to TX or for that matter CA. However, if I lived in TX or CA it would be a long drive to Mentone.

Maybe I am all wrong here ( someone please set me straight) but would it not be good for the PRA to also support PRA members on the other corners of the country with their own regional rotorcraft ‘base’ to hold fly-ins? Would you non-east coasters like ‘The’ Convention near you once in a while?

Can someone tell me if they think a TX or a CA convention would be attended?

I still would like to know if airports make money or not. If airports don’t bring in funds I would just give this idea a miss and leave it up to the regional chapters.
 
Tim, Not sure I can remember what Charlie said, but it goes something like this we give the airport the takeoffs and landings for Federal funding support. Not sure I said this right. Maybe Chuck can straighten it out for us.

I know we give the Community of Wauchula lots of Business during the week of BD DAY. As for the Airport we have to contact the City Adminastrators 3 months ahead to schedule the dates for BD Days, in order to use the Airport for the week. Also we have to post a Notam for all to read.

MJ :)
 
MJ,

Thanks!

You guys really bust butt for BDays and it is GREAT. It seems like we are really spoiled in the midwest and east with Mentone, BDays and ROC.

I was inspired my Herons' concept of having PRA owned Airports that are self-supporting $ wise and it seems to me this would support and inspire growth in other regions.

Now I am in doubt. Key to the concept is that the airports are self-funding and that the gyro pilots in the South West and West would and could use these airports to host fly-ing both gyro and non-gyro. It seems this may not be so. Maybe KenB Freedom Fly-in covers the needs of people in the West and there is no desire to have the advantages of an owned airport in that region.
 
Conventions

Conventions

barnstorm2 said:
Maybe I am all wrong here ( someone please set me straight) but would it not be good for the PRA to also support PRA members on the other corners of the country with their own regional rotorcraft ‘base’ to hold fly-ins? Would you non-east coasters like ‘The’ Convention near you once in a while?

Can someone tell me if they think a TX or a CA convention would be attended?

I still would like to know if airports make money or not. If airports don’t bring in funds I would just give this idea a miss and leave it up to the regional chapters.

We have had airports and communities asking us to hold our convention with them.

The PRA board will be happy to hold our convention anywhere that can meet our criteria for lodging, runways and most importantly someone in the area that can set it all up and get the infrastructure in place.

During my time as a board member we have had conventions in Illinois (2 locations), Indiana (2 locations), Oklahoma (almost 2 locations), Texas (2 locations), California, Ohio (2 locations), and Tennessee.

All it takes is a nice friendly airport with a paved runway, reasonable areas to fly over, adequate accomodations and a willing and eager chapter to pull the whole thing off.

Can any airport make money these days? It's really tough. Indiana doesn't tax airports and airport office buildings. That's a major break. Mentone is a fairly low maintenance facility and I think we get a break here too as Glenn Bundy does most of it gratis. In my opinion the only thing making the PRA Mentone airport happen is the monthly PRA office rent, something another airport wouldn't benefit from.
 
Currently, there is nothing preventing anyone from putting together a rotary winged fly-in. And really, there's nothing preventing anyone from holding a rotary winged convention somewhere other than Mentone. But one thing that keeps digging at me is that of the other rotary winged events that take place each year, why hasn't anyone gone that extra step to make it a second, third of forth PRA Convention?

Based on the information that I've heard recently, the Mentone Convention takes a lot of steps to make sure that all of the paper work is in order, mainly FAA stuff. From a legal standpoint, unless you have waivers from the FAA, you can't have bomb drop events, you can't have flight demos, etc. So how many clubs are going take the steps necessary to obtain these waivers? Also, if a club is going to be putting on a convention under the name of the PRA, should (shouldn't) the PRA get a major percentage of the profits?

Earlier stated, if the PRA were to buy another airport, it would really cheese-off some people. I'd have to agree. But now the next big question would be, does it matter who gets cheesed-off? I'd love to see the PRA own 4 or 5 airport in different corners of the US, so long as the PRA receives the money from the Conventions that are held each year. The money would go into a general fund and split up from there. That way, if one airport has a great turn-out, all airports benefit. This money could also be used to fund different things. I'd like to see the PRA start offering aircraft, liability, and injury insurance to it's flying members. To make this work, people will have to be motivated to take on the ownership of putting the Convention together and running it. It might be worth having a single group of people on the PRA payroll that puts on ALL of the different conventions, and their incentive would be a commission based on the number of people that pass through the gates during the event.

Feedback please...
 
Thank goodness for Don.

That is the kind of strategy which appeals to my heart.

It is a plan that really appeals to me. 1. Funding other than membership. 2. Gyro growth/exposure 3. Not limited to gyro fly-ins. 4. Other parts of the country besides EC and MW.

Pity about the cheese…
 
I'm not too happy to support an airport with my PRA membership that I will most-likely never see. Although, I guess I could say the same about my EAA membership. At least I have visited Oshkosh. But wait, EAA doesn't own the Oshkosh airport, does it? But I know it does own buildings and such there. And ya know what? I don't think EAA owns the Arlington, WA airport either for that large fly-n. How about the Florida airport for the EAA fly-in that part of the country?

I would like to have a fly-in out here (Oregon) sometime. I was hoping to make El Mirage to get a gyro fly-in fix, but that didn't happen either. It is still pretty far from here.
 
Draw a pentagon inside de country, use the existent fly ins as points
cross a line and voila, the cg of rotordom.
The 5 major fly-ins get to host the Convention, the meeting of the Board, the Big Kahunas all present, nothing to do with attendance of general public and giros.
Don't be knuckle head, the Directors have to be present by law, not the rest of the people.
The convention will be an extra magneto at the already supported, traditional, well toughtout fly ins.
It is only the meeting of the BOD that will move, the fly-ins have to be there already to host them.
That is my idea, lets grow the major fly ins and have the guys on that region see up close and personall the Gurus of Gyro Dom . . .
God have mercy!
Heron
 
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