PRA dues & the magazine and your thoughts on them

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
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I believe the PRA is down to 1300 members roughly. I have also been told it costs the PRA 42$ per member to send out the magazine. This leaves 8 dollars change for the PRA, even less if you paid with a credit card or Paypal.

I sat in on a board meeting and there was what seemed like 15 minutes of discussion over flyers to be handed out at fly-ins and how to cut costs, that saving 50$ on flyers was that critical to the PRA budget that it needed to suck up 15 minutes of valueable BOD meeting time.

The way I see it, the PRA is on the very edge, it has been a slowly sinking ship and depending on what happens in the next year or so, the PRA could rebound and become successful again, or it will fail and we will be without a parent organization.

There are some great things in the pipeline, mostly web based. Things we were promised 2+ years ago, but it looks like we finally have good people to make it happen, such as John ( All In )

We also have a great Board of Directors in office, and they are well aware of the dire need to turn this around.

I do not think any of the current BOD have the " Good Ole Boy " syndrome either, and I believe they are willing to do whatever it takes, even something radical to save the PRA.

But the one thing that I can't shake from my visit to Mentone and being able to sit in on a life member meeting and a Board meeting, and talking privately to a few board members, is this...... I don't think the PRA can be in the magazine publishing business anymore.

I personally like the magazine, but don't feel it is worth 50 bucks. Nor is it worth 42 bucks. I don't like the fact that out of my 50$ dues, nearly all of it goes to paying for a magazine that even though I like, I could certainly do without and not miss a minutes sleep over.

I have been thinking about all the people I know that are no longer members, or never have joined, and thinking of why is that. I believe it comes down to they don't see the value in sending in 50$ for a very thin and not even monthly magazine, not especially when you can get all the same info for free in 5 minutes right here on the internet.

But I do appreciate what the PRA stands for and what it could be doing with my money if it wasn't spending it all on publishing a magazine.


I wonder why some of you guys are or are not a PRA member ?

I also wonder, those that are not current PRA members, would you be a member if you could pay 20-30$ a year in dues and not recieve a magazine.... ?


I would like to see the PRA go strickly web based and get rid of the paper magazine. I would like to keep Rick Gilley on as a online editor of a web based " Rotorcraft Magazine " and make it along with back issues of the Paper magazine viewable in a members only section. And I would like to see the Dues cut in half, to 25$ a year.

Cutting out the postage and printing costs of the paper magazine, the cost to per member for Rick and Jennifer ( Paid PRA staff ) and the web space should be low enough to allow us to pay our 25$ dues and pay for expenses and have far more than 5-8 dollars left over to be used for other PRA projects.

I also believe the membership would easily double, almost instantly with a 25$ dues price.

What do you guys think?
 
Ron...
I mentioned a very similar thought to others. I for one am glad your on this subject.
I don't mind the $50- yearly...its a drop in the bucket...and would rather see ALL OF IT go toward PRA doing what it needs to in order to build the community up again rather than almost all to just the magazine.

The online version of the magazine is the best thing that can happen...virtual with NO printing costs IS THE WAY TO GO.
If the organization is strapped- then cutting the dues price is not the answer...rather- plow ALL of the dues into doing what needs to be done for all of us members.
I'd bet many would agree if it would help make things happen.
For those very few individuals without PC's...a quick trip to Kinko's with a PDF file to print off...and send it to them via snail mail. That would maybe total just a handful of folks.
A presence at Oshkosh and other prominent Air Shows might help spread the word.
Marketing of "Killer" "T" shirts, hats, patches, Videos, etc. has to happen to capture precious revenue for our organization.

Sale's of ready made DVD's containing all back issues would be a treasure I'd pay $20- for in an eye blink...just to have access to ALL those great issues and articles..!!!!

Thanks for broaching this issue here.

Mike
 
I believe the magazine is great, I carry mine with me and when I'm talking gyros with someone (non PRA members) I'll let them see the magazine and they are amazed. But I also believe quality is much more important than quantity and there are apparantly others that feel the same because the magazine went from monthly to every two months. I like the idea of the on line magazine, in these days there are a lot of magazines that have been around for many years, possibly longer than what most of us are old, and have found the internet has made them obsolete and have opted to become an online mag rather than published. I would however still like to see some form of printed magazine, possibly published once a year after the PRA convention or twice, once after Bensen Days and once after PRA. This would allow us to have much more content and something that can be carried and shown to people that aren't in the know about our sport.

As far as membership I think the PRA needs to be promoted in a much more positive manner than what it is here on the forum. I see a lot of newbies getting on the forum and it seems to be quite regular to see someone coming here because they are interested and want to learn more. Todd or Mike might be able to provide us with numbers of newbies joining per month or per year but I do see a lot of potential new members all the time. But, when they get to reading through some of the posts where the PRA is discussed and see the negative publicity that has been created I'm sure it puts doubt into their mind about the need to join. We need as a group to quit doing this, I know you can't make all of the people happy all of the time but this is one of the best places to promote PRA membership and if we have an issue about something then we need to contact someone within the PRA to voice our concerns/complaints and stop airing out our laundry for all to see.

If the dues are too high then I blame it on the members, if we promote the organization and get more people to join then the dues could come down, but if we want to complain and talk people out of joining then there is no way the dues can come down. There is a lot of power in numbers.
 
I agree with both Ron and Mike about the PRA magazine going online. I also like the idea of a CD for all back issues….it would be a treasure and if well done I would pay more than $20.

I do believe $50 is more than a drop in a bucket for many people however. I joined around '74 and after perhaps four years, with a family and all the costs that goes with it, I just could no longer justify that money, especially when I couldn't see the benefit. Now I do believe $25 would bring in many more people if they also had access to an online magazine and the money saved compared to now would be good for the PRA. Around the same time I also dropped the EAA because at that time at least, over half of the magazine was ads.
 
A CD with all back issues would be a smash hit, I think this would be something that just about all members, past present and future, would be interested in.
 
I am somewhat new to this PRA stuff, but I agree that the magazine isn't really all that. I think it could easily be replaced with a good online version (that you need to be a member to gain access to is OK)

Another idea is to publish two nice ones a year. One to commemorate Mentone (member directory a must), the other to advertise an educate on the sport.

I think a paid webmaster might be another good idea to use the remainder of the $50 on.
It is a lot of work to do right, at least in the beginning.

I hate the lobbyist system, but sometimes I think this sport could use one.

The bottom line of what I am saying is that I agree, I could live without the magazine if there was a good online version, but I don't see much value in reducing the dues. I learned a long time ago that the less of a vested interest people have, the easier they will walk away and let someone else do it. Raising dues too high also has the same effect.

In all honesty, I think this forum hurts the PRA. The main purpose of an association is to help channel the communications and like minded spirit of a group with a common interest. Because the forum does this so well, people don't see as big a benefit as they probably did in the old days. While at Mentone, I was reminded on two separate occasions that the forum and PRA were separate.

Having said this, I want everyone to know how grateful I am for this forum. It helped me make important, probably life saving decisions about how to enter this sport. It has been a great source of inspiration, education, and introduction to many people who I now consider friends. I have had little interaction with the host of this wonderful site, and frankly I feel that the value I get here is worth more than the PRA dues.

This is what the PRA should be doing for us. One way to do it is to start a forum on the PRA website. It is easy and would not cost much if anything to do. Yearly bandwidth costs would go up maybe.

Do I want this forum to go away -- NO! Do I wish it was part of the PRA -- YES

We need both in this modern world. We need an association with the long history of the PRA to add credence, guidance, organization etc. AND, we need a presence on the internet like this forum that daily interacts with rotary wing enthusiasts all over the world.

I also suspect that the bickering on this site would still be here, but with a totally different tone if everyone was a paying member, and a member of the PRA.

I feel very strongly that the PRA is a vital and important part of sport, but not moving into the modern world has hurt.

-- My two cents worth.
 
PRA great organisation, needed badly.

Magazine. Nice to have but too expensive.

Subscriptions, around $30 might well encourage more to join. $50 does seem a psychological barrier, just too far for many.

Online is the way to go with PRA magazine...however for those who wish a paper copy possibly could be provide for an extra cost to those who want it? ( Not sure on the financial side of things whether this is in fact possible.)

CD of all back issues sounds very desirable, and if made, might well be something that could be a money earner for the PRA.

Patches Caps T-shirts, Calendars, all seem good ideas for bringing in revenue, and various members have offered their various skills in helping out. ( I love my Bensen Days Wauchula Cap, wear it all the time.)

This forum has done a tremendous job for the promotion of both the sport in general world wide and the PRA.

I think it would be a great idea to take the PRA global and possibly to be able to work both with the FAA but also the various countries individual Aviation legislative bodies as a common voice and point of reference in standards training and safety issues for gyro pilots, gyro manufacturers, and home builders and their machines.

Freebird we posted together, just seen your and yes an excellent point.
 
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Excellent post, Kim's Husband! The two entities are separate and I would imagine have different interests….but if they somehow were able to become one, they would both bring great things to the table and I would not mind paying $50 for this conglomerate.
 
Before the PRA was the PRA, it was a group of enthusiasts receiving a typewritten, photocopied or mimeographed newsletter from Igor Bensen. As the popularity of the sport increased and the roster grew, the newsletter was replaced by a magazine. If it's really back down to 1300 members, maybe it's time for a return to something less costly to produce...something with a staple in the upper left corner!

I believe that if there was suddenly no magazine or printed newsletter, and everything went online, the BoD would have life members showing up on their lawns with torches and pitchforks.

As for a PRA forum, hasn't that been tried? Didn't Norm's original rotorcraft.com forum start as a PRA outlet, then get taken independent because PRA couldn't control the politics?

$50 sounds like a lot, but people will pay it if there's a sense of value.
 
I think that (comparing to older ones) the magazine is not so "reach" as it use to be. Going online with a PDF downloadable file is the way to go... more money will stay for the PRA...
Some money can be spent for "REACHER" articles for the online mag.

To keep the PAPER Magazine people happy you can also have 2-3 paper magazines (as well as the online version) available covering the BIG Gyro events. (if the $50 fee is maintained). An ONLINE ONLY ($30) registration can exist for people who do not want the paper magazine. In 1 -2 years a clear picture will be available if the paper mag will continue or not.

the DVD with all the back issues will be a treusure!!! even better and worth more than $20 will be a searchable DVD... of course it will take much more work... but even if only the titles of the articles can be searchable.....

A nice online news letter ( biweekly or monthly) will keep the PRA close to its members.

just some thoughts.....
 
I was told that when the airport was paid off all that money was going to save the PRA.
That the airport makes money for the PRA.

what happened?
 
Couple of points....

1. Selling a CD of all the back issues would be great, but as I write this, there is a team of people scanning and saving back issues to be viewable on the PRA website to PRA members only. So no need to sell a CD.

2. If dues were slashed to 25$ I believe most people would join. Certainly everyone seriously into sport rotorcraft.

3. 50$ is a drop in the bucket for some people, but not for most of us. Let's face it, if we were the 50$ is a drop in the bucket kind of people, we'd all be flying Xenons and Magnis or R-22's.... not Gyrobees and old Bensens and the rest of the cheap machines we have built and been flying

4. Life members will have to get over it. I don't believe there was any contract stating they are guaranteed a magazine for life with their payment, no... they were sold a life membership, and they will still get to be a life member.

5. People without computers will have to get over it. How many people don't really have internet access anyway? and maybe this will be a good thing for them, get them to finally make the plunge into cyberspace, which would make their life so much better in the long run.

6. We need to decide what the purpose of the PRA is....... Is it a magazine publishing company or a organization to promote the sport and safety of building and flying sport rotorcraft? If we had more members it might be okay to be both, but at 1300 members I find it extremely stupid to continue to make the magazine the focus of the PRA.

7. I can't reccomend someone to join the PRA, the magazine is not worth 50$ and there isn't enough money left after the 50$ for anything useful to be done that would benifit the members. I could reccomend to people to join at 20-30$ a year, where they are going to get a better magazine and more great content Online.... and a sizeable portion of their dues will be put into PRA funds that could be spent on supporting local chapters, possibly offering insurance for chapter fly-ins, for lobby efforts with the FAA, etc.....

8. I wouldn't be opposed to Todd making this forum a PRA members only to access it. This forum would be well worth the dues alone.

9. For those that say they like the magazine to carry it around to show people what your sport is all about. The PRA has nice flyers they could mail out to those interested that are better than the best magazine issue, with a online magazine you could still have these flyers to pass out to people you meet at the airport or whereever gyros come up...

10. About the only thing I would like to see PRA mail out on a regular basis is a annual rotorcraft calender. But the smarter thing to do would be to sell those not just give them out.....


Bottom line is this, from what I can see, and I am not always smarter than a 5th grader, is the PRA will fail in the next year or two if two things do not happen....
Either

1. the stuff in the works right now with people like " All In " and others, ends up becoming a major hit and a thousand plus people all of a sudden decide to join up

2. the PRA gets out of the paper magazine publishing business
 
I was told that when the airport was paid off all that money was going to save the PRA.
That the airport makes money for the PRA.

what happened?

The PRA has been loosing so many members each year for the last 3-5 years, that even though the PRA airport is now paid off, there isn't enough money left over after magazine publication to offer more issues, more thickness, or anything else over what were currently getting.

From what I remember the PRA had 1600+ members in 2008, now it is down to 1300 in 2009. It has been loosing 300 or more members each year for the last several years.

There wasn't enough money in the PRA bank account to buy a new car, unless you are shopping for a Kia or Hyundia and have a cash for clunkers trade in.....
 
I am not currently a PRA member, but I am an AOPA member, SPA member, and EAA member. If any of those organizations were to get rid of their magazine it is doubtful that I would continue to be a member. I'm not saying they don't do things that are useful, but for someone like me the magazine is an important consideration; it's a place to learn about new technologies, upcoming events, what other people are doing, etc.

I know it's difficult for the PRA with low membership, but I wonder if additional people would leave the PRA if there were no magazine. Many may no longer feel like they get anything out of the organization (even if it is not true).

As I said, I'm not a PRA member, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
 
Encouraging members to opt out of a hard copy magazine in favor of an online one is a good idea, but forcing it probably isn't IMO. A large percentage consider that the only thing of value!

While going to an online-only magazine saves money, it won't stop the underlying problem of membership loss.

What percentage of the current membership are life members?
 
when I am asked about my gyros I tell them to go to PRA.com and I have years of old PRA mags so they can look. Not one that I know has joined the PRA. I guess they have more toys take more time. Gyro are not something you buy and jump on like a PWC or other off road toys. When they see the gyros they like priced more then the new car they have it is over they walk away. I tell them I will help anyway I can. and to start with the low end gyro and fly it before they get in that big. None have come back looking to get started.
 
Great thread Ron!

Even the negative comments are helpful as it's very expensive to buy marketing research like this.

The BOD heard my opinion where they addressed this over a year ago, so I won't express it here. I'll mainly listen and help the members get what they want and provide a few more facts I haven't heard so far.

The BOD voted down an online only version a year ago only because they felt an obligation to the older members that don't own a computer. They feel like they would be breaking a deal they have always had with them and leaving them in the dark.

It costs as much to print one magazine as it does to print 2000 so printing only to the few without computers would not save us any money.

It was suggested that PRA could print a few hard-copies from a regular printer and sent them to members without a computer.

Now that they have decided to keep the magazine, the only hope I see for it is to start making it pay for itself with a direct marketing plan to sell more advertising space.

So I now, would at least like to try selling major companies like, Coca Cola, sun screen, sun glasses, and any other companies products our members would be using along with of course more aviation product manufacturers.

We haven't started the direct marketing yet because few large companies would spend money on 1300 viewers. However PRA-TV's test page ( http://usedjewelry.net/pra_TV.asp ) received over 20,000 hits in just a few months while it was being promoted and there are several other new web-pages already created that will also display their ads around the broader of the page. That is a circulation we may be able to sell, especially as I wish to sell them two different types of ads the photo ad and a new video clip ad that lets them say much more for our low costing ads. Plans also include a marketing trick to get co's to bid against each other for an exclusive one year contract. This often makes much more money because Cola Cola wants to keep Pepsi out of the mag and Dr Pepper wants to keep both of them out.

There is a slight chance that we could turn the magazine into a money making venture, but won't even try until I can show them an example of our new site.

Managing the volunteers has been taking most of my time for the past few weeks but majority of the major positions are now filled and the work load should reduce soon to get back to finishing the web-site so we can at least try to sell advertising. I could never debug the software and moderate our new site by myself so had to switch hats in order to fills volunteers positions and not be overwhelmed when we go on-line. We still need a few good Moderators and magazine scanners too.

If the magazine can't be made profitable I beleive that it will be difficult to keep a hard-copy version and it will have to go on-line only soon anyway!
I beleive you guys have covered about everything else so far, but it is very helpful.

Every organization that's worth anything is only as strong as its grassroots efforts and its volunteers. We got some 30+ very good ones so far and I'm very hopeful that by this time next year PRA is going to be much different. If it's not, it won't be from lack of trying...
 
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I was told that when the airport was paid off all that money was going to save the PRA.
That the airport makes money for the PRA.

what happened?

It is saving $, in fact soon to be making money for the PRA.

This has been mentioned on other threads.

Hopefully, soon we will have a members only section on the PRA web site where this information will be easy to find and non PRA member trolls won't exercise.

Currently, the PRA is getting free rent for the office and a free place to hold the convention.

We are in talks with several potential FBO's that would rent the airport grounds during the non-convention times of the year.

This would not only bring in revenue but also (if we get lucky) provide additional services to PRA members such as a Rotax auth service center.

One thing that hurt us badly is that we went almost a year without online signup and renewal. Now that online transactions are possible we are back in a climb. Now to get paypal working!

.

.
 
Now that they have decided to keep the magazine, the only hope I see for it is to start making it pay for itself with a direct marketing plan to sell more advertising space.
Amen to that John. I know I am only a new PRA member but I do know about the printing industry. John is right. Printing 1 is more expensive then 2000. The press needs to be setup and that's what we pay for. After that it doesn't matter just how many sheets go through the machine. Every publication goes through my hands nowadays has a very substantial advertisement section. Just like year books if you guys remember. I just happened to make one for a private academy and out of 93 pages total there were 14 with ads. So selling ads is really the way to go. I was also thinking maybe some sort of online store that would carry all kinds of stuff carrying maybe "members mad parts" and so on. I know I'd use it. Creating an educational DVD maybe for sale and maybe create a standardized almost like a 141 type of training schedule and sell thse through our CFIs Just a few ideas.
Cheers
 
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