PRA airport and more to the story...

How about putting the info in the magazine and in a member's only section of the website?

Dean_Dolph said:

Don, your proposal would would be similar to having the states governors run the U.S. You might not see a problem with that but the govs have enough problems in their region without trying to run the country. Why do you think that the chapter presidents would operate any differently than the present BOD arrangement? I see a problem with chapter agendas getting in the way of the international one.

Chapters come and go but the BOD is always there. There isn't anything wrong with the BOD that can't be fixed by electing people that carry a message from the members with them. I would hope that the BOD members personal agendas align with mine but if the members elect people that I don't agree with (and they have!) then I can live with that.

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Dean,

My thinking is that since the members would have monthly contact with the president (board member), there would be communication between board members and the PRA membership as a whole. Also, I've heard people in the past complain about their presidents not doing anything. With the added responsibilities of being a board member, if the presidents don't perform, they would be gone after 1 term. If one year isn't soon enough, chapter’s members could start a new chapter and vote a new president in pretty quick. To be safe, I think new chapters should not have their presidents on the board for at least 6 months.

I still think that it would be a good idea to have a national board of some kind like what we currently have, mainly to act as coordinators for different parts of the world.

But hey, this is just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.

Tim, I would think that if it were posted on the web site and there was also a Forum there for comments and discussion then the chances of it being posted here again would be reduced to between slim and none. I personally don't have any problem with it being posted here anyhow except for the fact it just offers another opportunity for nit pickers.

I just reviewed EAA's annual financial report for last year. In comparing it with PRA's the first thing that obviously pops out is the numbers. Wow, we are talking millions of dollars as opposed to tens of thousands! The other thing is that compared to the PRA's is that they must be doing a lot of covering up because their report doesn't reveal near as much detail as the PRA's.

Dean, It doesn't really concern me that much. I was just trying to suggest something that might appease most of the people. I kind-of feel the way Tom does. I went out to eat today with my daughter and son-in-law and spent more for a meal than I do on my PRA dues. I'm not going to waste a lot of time fretting over how my PRA dues should be spent. I do think PRA should have some goals and we should be working toward those goals to make PRA a better org.

Tim Chick my man . . .you've got it!! That is what we need, programs to work and create gravitational pulling for more volunteers/members.
So Mr. Dolph . . .
If you disagree with someone, does that makes you a bitch?
Or do you have to post some number of posts to atain that category?
Web page should be interactive and trasparent, Mag should be informative and pictures to keep.
Question:
CAn PRA make money?
I think a nonprofitorg, can not show profit in its report, but can make money so its members can buy more of what is needed to stay in business and grow
At the end of the fiscal year all money made has to be spent. Am I wrong here?
AS the thread goes along, the questions remain and some anwers are been presented to all interested in been more informed, so this is agood thing.
Now I want my Bitch Card signed by all of you that think I am a Bitch, this card will be in my office wall in Brazil, Heron de Souza the Offical PRA Bitch!
Heron
(buyingnother gyro so the club will have a machine to solo in)

"PRA Bitch"

"PRA Bitch"

Heron,

You'll have to come up with another title on your card 'cause I already hold the title of the "Official PRA Office Bitch". I even have a set of dog tags with that on it. I'll wear them to Bensen Days and show you.

No FAir!
I hate been second Bitch!
Heron

Heron, my definition of a Forum bitcher is someone that complains without ever offering a solution. And if they do then they never let it go when the solution doesn't garner any support. At that point they aren't bitching any longer but just nagging.

Disagreement doesn't fit that definition. But then I know ex basketball refs have a difficult time following logical explanations.!

Aw . . .c'mon Sensei . . .U saying I am not a bitch then?
I did offer lots of suggestions and created another group that can fly gyros and participate.
Pam . . .I think you will be the only one on that category then . . .
Sensei . . .do you hate refs?
Heron

Heron said:

Sensei . . .do you hate refs?
Heron

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Aw, c'mon Heron, everyone loves refs! But this is off topic.

Topic? Is that edible?
We are way of couse here, I need a GPS to get back in topic . . .
Airport and shenannigans that is the topic.
I thinks is allright and can be fixed, the lack of communications can be fixed and forgiven and we go to the next airport, how bout that?
Heron

Dean, while shining his shoes with what he thought was Shinola for the Saturday hoedown, posted: "Heron, my definition of a Forum bitcher is someone that complains without ever offering a solution. And if they do then they never let it go when the solution doesn't garner any support. At that point they aren't bitching any longer but just nagging."

Dean, plenty of people complained here about being kept in the dark about PRA/PRA Mentone's financial status. Many suggested the posting somewhere, anywhere, of a true financial statement for all the members to see....something all the members have a right to see, and a solution. This would solve a lot of unknowns.

Now, according to you, because they've been ignored, they're bitching and nagging. What if someone owes you 10 thousand bucks Dean, and doesn't pay it back after you've asked for it back a few times. Would you just blow it off because you don't want to bitch and nag?

This request has garnered plenty of support. It's the treasurer, president and any board member that has this knowledge and refuses to share it with the members that are the cause of what you refer to as bitching and nagging. If a justified request is made and the members are just ignored, I guess they should just stop asking for the information? And don't come out with your stuff about phoning the treasurer to get the info. He could tell anyone anything. Part of his job is to make that information available to the members for our scrutiny and review.

Those just happy to get an ever-diminishing magazine, just go to the outhouse and read it again and don't worry about it. Some of us expect a little more from those we trust with our dues and organization.

Hello Ken, I have indoor plumbing, and besides the magizine is printed on slick paper, so it is not good for outhouse use.

Thank you, Vance

Vance!!! You're acquiring a sense of humor! I knew you could do it. You're right about it being too slick. That's why I save all of our corn cobs.

They don't print the right kinda pictures for that kinda readin!

KenSandyEggo said:

Now, according to you, because they've been ignored, they're bitching and nagging. What if someone owes you 10 thousand bucks Dean, and doesn't pay it back after you've asked for it back a few times. Would you just blow it off because you don't want to bitch and nag?

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Ken,

Now I doubt that the PRA or PRA Mentone Inc. owes you $10K, or even $1 for that matter. However, other than a timely and accurate financial report, is there anything else that the PRA owes you, or any other PRA member?

Just curious...

Don? Can you save some for me?
What some people don't realise is the intent of the complaint.
You can separate people in 3 classes:
1-Those who tried and succeed
2-Those who tried and failed
3-Those who never tried
It has been found that the second group has more happy people in it that the other two.
What is the silent majority saying?
Where are you going to get info to base your project on?
Is the King naked?
What is the governing body of the PRA goint to do different from now on?
thanks
Heron

KenSandyEggo said:

……
Dean, plenty of people complained here about being kept in the dark about PRA/PRA Mentone's financial status.

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I’m not sure how many is plenty but I think plenty of people don’t feel that they have been kept in the dark. Both of our statements have no merit what so ever.

KenSandyEggo said:

…… Many suggested the posting somewhere, anywhere, of a true financial statement for all the members to see....something all the members have a right to see, and a solution. This would solve a lot of unknowns.

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I don’t think anyone disagrees that posting the financial statement ‘somewhere’ is the right thing to do. The disagreement is where it is posted. Apparently ‘many’ believe that posting it here is okay. I disagree. And we have already seen that posting it in the magazine results in it ending up here. The resulting questions about spending are not going to get an official response here from the BOD, period! It is evident from your, and others, reaction that any response they gave here would just result in never ending questions. You guys have demonstrated that you can’t accept the answers given. After a while the questioning gets old and your motives come into question.

KenSandyEggo said:

……..What if someone owes you 10 thousand bucks Dean, and doesn't pay it back after you've asked for it back a few times. Would you just blow it off because you don't want to bitch and nag?

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Well, with all my money I would probably just furgettabout it! Not! I don’t know what I would do except I do know I wouldn’t take it public where I know there wouldn’t be a resolution. I would go straight to the source and deal with it there. No bitching, no nagging, just deal with it!

KenSandyEggo said:

……It's the treasurer, president and any board member that has this knowledge and refuses to share it with the members that are the cause of what you refer to as bitching and nagging.

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Ignore and refuses to share knowledge? Really! Have you ever made a direct request for info either by email or phone where this happened to you? My inquiries have always received a response.

KenSandyEggo said:

…… He could tell anyone anything. Part of his job is to make that information available to the members for our scrutiny and review.

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If you don’t believe what the leadership vocally tells you one on one then why would you believe what would appear in a posting? It appears that what you are saying is that you aren’t going to be satisfied with any answer you receive.

KenSandyEggo said:

Those just happy to get an ever-diminishing magazine, just go to the outhouse and read it again and don't worry about it. Some of us expect a little more from those we trust with our dues and organization.

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Well, those of us who have been PRA members for a number of years will tell you that where the mag is concerned there have been good times and bad times. There was a time when the mag was only published four times a year. There was a time when there were no expensive color presentations. There was a time when the member had no input and it was a promotional tool for a business. We’ve come a long way baby!

The magazine has evolved and at times expands, and contracts, as economics dictate. But, as some people have already stated, the magazine and membership in the PRA are the only things we contract for when we send in our money. Anything we get above and beyond that is frosting. Apparently you expect more. In time, I would hope the evolution satisfies your expectations. One question is still unanswered, will you ever trust any of our leaders and what they tell you?

There Ken!
You should now understand that all is good and right and the people involved gave their best and there is nothing else that can be done.
Lets all be happy now!
Heron

Heron, it's amazing, isn't it? Dean and Don are experts in twisting and turning and predicting what I'd say "if". How they know how I'd react or what I'd believe is beyond me, but they seem to know. You guys deserve what you get for your dues. A magazine that is continually declining in quantity and diminishing in quality (# of color pages, etc.). Nothing is expanding at PRA except it's lack of cash and communication with its members. "We need more money to stay solvent." What's happening with the money already coming in from dues, hangar rentals and land leasing for farming? Answer: Years of silence. Unless these questions are answered in the near future, only the (fill in the blank) ones will keep sending in their dues.