Mini-500 with Yamaha Genesis engine conversion

HobbyCAD

Homebuilt Heli Enthusiast
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Well folks, after months of waiting, travelling down from Michigan, down to LA, then across the pond to Australia, and finally up the coast to Hervey Bay, my Yamaha Genesis 135hp fuel injection engine "kit" has finally arrived !! At last my project can now kick into overdrive !!

For those others that are interested in the conversion, and don't want to re-invent the wheel, go and have a look at John's fine job he's doing. He will be selling the conversion kit soon, if I'm not mistaken. http://www.millenniumhelicopters.com/home.html

Racer and GyroRon, thank you 2 very much, for introducing us to such a fantastic little motor, and doing the pioneering work of converting it to aircraft use. Your openness to share the info on this forum has been fantastic.

John, you have been doing a fine job, taking up the task of supporting Mini-500 owners again.

Now that I have my engine, I'll soon start my build thread.

Regards,

Francois
 

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Cool deal, will be looking forward to this conversion thread. I can't wait to see this engine fly in a Mini -500
 
Francois,
I as well am waiting with baited teeth to see your conversion up and running.
Thank you for the recognition but I must say that I learn as much from you as you do from me and together between all of us we are making these Yamaha packages very reliable and dependable engine packages.

Best of luck and keep us posted please,
Todd (Racer)
 
Hi Francois

Those are nice clean photos of the engine. I am wondering if you could possibly take two photos of your engine from each side and email them to me. Racer is getting an engine ready for me with his cage and I am trying to figure out a motor mount for the two place little wing. All I have is low quality web pix.

If you have time to do that I would appreciate it. It would need to have a yardstick or ruler in the photo for scale and be photographed profile, which would mean shooting the side of the engine so that you are about the same height as the middle of the engine. I wish I could have made it to Mentone to meet Todd and take these photos, but was unable.

If you are too busy, I understand.
james mcneilly. mc**[email protected] (remove **)
 

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Thanks Francois

That is fast !!!!

I appreciate the photos. These will help me figure some ideas on the engine mount. The scale will help me figure out attatchment points and to maybe help me anticipate if Racer's cage could be changed in anyway to make attatchment easier. Thanks again, I really appreciate it ! :) :)
 
Francois,

Very nice exhaust. Could you provide a few details on how this was built?
 
Larry,

You must be referring to the pictures from the website I posted, of the "green mean machine". That is all John Higginbotham's handywork, the man behind Millenium Helicopters.

There is a ready header available from aftermarket suppliers that I am thinking of trying out.

Regards,

Francois
 

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..... and to maybe help me anticipate if Racer's cage could be changed in anyway to make attatchment easier.

If you want a thrust load from the engine, Racer's cage is perfect, as it transfers the load directly from the PSRU to the engine mounts on your airframe. The engine itself does not have sufficient thrustload attachment on the front of it, other than the 4 short M8 bolts the bearing carrier is held in with. For us heli guy's that want to take off power via a reduction belt, we have no pull on the front, only a sideload. We don't need the cage. That steel bearing carrier in the front contains a sidethrust bearing specifically designed to take up the sideloads, the crank carries none of it. In the sled, it also drives a belt.

How about you ask him to make you up a custom steel frame like he did for Ron? Might cost you more, as he's tooled up for the lightweight gyro frames he's supplying as kit's. With his knowledge, he sure is the best man for the job. No need for experimenting, he will be able to design it according to your requirements, and have it fit perfectly.

Regards,

Francois
 

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Thanks, for the suggestion. That is what we are doing, although I am researching it a bit to get a better idea of what it will need to look like. I have been sending photos to racer since last year. Basically I need to mount it to the cage, isolated, and back to 4 points on the firewall. I am hoping it won't be that hard. Having the profile photos will let me see how high we have to have the engine placed to keep center line thrust. I am going back to the blue prints and have the firewall already drilled for the 4 engine mount bolts. We should be able to get something done. Thank you again. jtm

Here are some cradle type mounts that could be made and then modified to meet up with his cage.
 

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We are all looking forward to your engine conversion Francois , thanks. Also glad you posted John's link , I did not realize he had progressed that far, his website has been quiet lately.

I am curious how much it cost to ship the engine to Australia and did you use air or sea?

I live in Yamaha sled country and I have been watching all the insurance auctions around here without much luck. The collision damaged sleds are selling for higher prices than Todd (Racer) can buy running machines for. Not sure why prices are so high but will keep checking for good deals if they come up.
 
James, why is there one alen-head bolt and the rest hex-head bolts holding the prop on?

The one allan head bolt is there to act as a counterweight balance for the 4th cylinder Yamaha cut off, to make the 3 cylinder sled engine ......

If you used a 2-bladed propellor, you would have to use a cadmium plated bolt, instead of a galvanised one used with 3-blader props ......
 
Arnie, it only cost me AU$500 to ship the engine from Stanton, CA to Brisbane, Australia. I have a friend with a fixed twice monthly container booking. His containers travel, whether loaded or empty. It waits at his freight forwarder, until they have space. I pay a flatrate of AU$500 for it. It cost more to get it to Stanton via RoadFreight, than via container to Oz.

Yes, I waited a while for a fuel injection engine to become available. Once there was one going, I pounced on it. I prefer the FI engine, as I can remap the ignition and fuel curves, to suite my applications. Can't do that with a carby version.

Racer gets good deals, he has made a name for himself now. At least if you buy from him, you have some "insurance" that you get what you are paying for. Remember the bogus sled sales that were discussed on the forum before? I'd rather support Todd, at least he's in the correct line of business to "persuade" the seller to come clean on bogus sales !! He surely knows some of those "wild man from Borneo" repo characters they show on Discovery Channel. I would not mess with those dude's.

What ever happened to the astronaut or space shuttle story you wanted to share with us?

Regards,

Francois
 
The one allan head bolt is there to act as a counterweight balance for the 4th cylinder Yamaha cut off, to make the 3 cylinder sled engine ......

If you used a 2-bladed propellor, you would have to use a cadmium plated bolt, instead of a galvanised one used with 3-blader props ......

And be aware if you use this technique, you must re-hang your gyro.
 
These are just photos I have been collecting from the internet to get ideas about motor mounts. Gotta get ideas somewhere..... :)
 
James, this mod that Todd did for Ron seems adaptable to mount onto the bottom "tray", as per the pictures you found on the net. You have the 4130 tubing on the bottom, as the engine mount, as well as the wrap-around aluminium frame, to transfer the load. The only difference, you will be pulling from an engine frame point on the firewall, not pushing against a mast. I'm sure you can flip up the Rotax gearbox, with the output up on top, to get the thrustline more centered, that way it will sit lower in your engine compartment. Maybe some change to the oil breather vent only?

Pictures complements of the Todd and Ron collection.

Regards,

Francois
 

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Francois,

WOW>>>> That is Great ! Those are nice clean uncluttered photos! (before all the other stuff is on) I can see that it is all going to be without another miracle. (first one being Todd to figure stuff out and there for us other gyro builders. Now I am excited about these photos you were kind enough to share - show a realitively easy adaption.

It looks like the basic setup for the higher mounts on the one side look pretty close to what we need and the way the tubes stick through the mounts.... pretty much what I had in mind.

Also like to see the cage that Todd made, and how nice it looks. I picked up on Todd's thread how a lot of strength came from the mount that pushed on the mast. I knew, and like you are affirming that the difference will be to mount to the cage so we can pull instead. Also I was hoping we could rotate the engine a bit and the redrive - as you suggested to keep centerline thrust as much as possible. I had made some sketches but from the web photos I could only approximate how much of the engine would be sticking up out of the top cowl. Whatever amount would have to be fine but I was trying to see what mod's I could do now to keep the lines graceful. Thank you for your additional suggestions and help.

I think it is great to know the mini's are finally going to get some reliable power soon.

I hate to keep distracting from Francois's yamaha/mini 500 thread so I am wondering if an administrator can easily start a new thread maybe named Little Wing Yamaha Engine Conversion, if it isn't too hard to do. I can tell that Francois is going to keep posting interesting photos of his build and will want to keep this thread cleaner....

Thanks Francois ! I appreciate your help and wish you well ! Go Yamaha !
Go Racer ! Go new, inexpensive and reliable gyro powerplants ! Guys like you two made get to work on the gyro in the last few days to check the belts, the newly installed primer, bigger prop and brake system. I sure have missed flying and I hope to earn more money to get this two place done. Too bad I missed you when you were in Michigan. jtm
 
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Upon closer Look at photos it appears that the black support tubes could be made longer to attach to the end of the cage with the redrive to it can pull on that. There is either already enough metal there or a little bit of an ear could be left there to drill through maybe to add a rubber bushings.... Things looking good... just a thought. Thanks again for giving me something to see !
 
Hi There James,

I've managed to "inherit" a nifty little 2-seat pusher aircraft, called a Seabird Sentinal. It was originally powered by a Norton Rotary, about 90hp. I've got the complete aircraft, but no Norton. I have no desired to install the same engine, I'm going to stick a Yamaha 135hp FI engine in it. Seeing I'm installing one into my helicopter, I might as well have the same in my aircraft !!

With the deal, I got a new MT-V7 3-bladed electric constant speed pusher prop as well. The rotation is the same as the Yamaha, when operated as a pusher. So, no Rotax PSRU for me, I'll have to go beltdrive, to maintain the rotation direction. If I can get an equivalent prop, with reverse rotation, I'll go for the Rotax PSRU, with Todd's kit.

Anyone out there have any drawings of a beltdrive PSRU, fitted to a Yamaha? I'll sure like to get more info, to do an installation study.

Attached a small picture of the Sentinal.

Regards,

Francois
 

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