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Reading the whole affair, including the boating forum, all parties are hereby declared not guilty by reasonable doubt.
A judge or arbitration will settle the matter and the trio will settle the relationship, but I am optimistic . . .. :)
Heron
 
Reading the whole affair, including the boating forum, all parties are hereby declared not guilty by reasonable doubt.
A judge or arbitration will settle the matter and the trio will settle the relationship, but I am optimistic . . .. :)
Heron

O.J. Simpson was declared not guilty by reasonable doubt....
 
Zactly!
WE know the facts as told by the parties.
WE know that something is wrong.
We don´t have the means to arbitrate.
I am not ready to give up the respect I have for all of them.
Lots of ifs ands and buts . . .
Will there be closure?
Will there be appologies?
Are we going to forgive?
Guess not . . .not in our inner fabric as it seems.
Heron
P.S The other guy did not blink to bundle Mrs. Dubin as wrong doer . . .Rob should never started the thread like he did.
 
I do not wonder any more, why Raphael is so careful about the US market.

Having burned his fingers so hard, he will now have to think not once or twice,
before he names another dealer.

I also got PM of the Rob story, nice fiction, after reading the posts here...

Does anybody still believe that Rob will "do the right thing"?

I don't.

Hmmm, the way I read past messages on this board, I would say the US market is very cagy with Raphael.....

Thanks
Albert
 
By the way, I am not taking Dubin's side for any issues brought up here (especially when it comes to Roeberg, Milton and Salz) ... but I resent PTKay making this about "Americans". Raphael's problems are not just about "Americans". I have first hand emails from people around the world disgusted with his business practices.

When doors fly off and you're told "You're the only one this has happened to" and you find out that numerous people had complained to him about the same thing ... you gotta wonder. And when people (in numerous countries) complain about "lack of support" ... you gotta wonder. And when people (in numerous countries) start comparing notes and discover lies ... you gotta wonder. Bottom line: "Americans": are not the problem.

Again ... I am not taking Dubin's side in this. But let's not rush to make Raphael a saint and don't judge all Americans by the way Rob has conducted himself. And PTKay, much of this forum is made up of "Americans".
 
Generalizations, often, tend to close the frame we are looking at, as well as some minds.
I have seen many people blame our Forum for their problems. It is like shooting the messenger.
WE don´t know how the deal went on, just what people say about it. Paper . . .spend some and prevent frustration by keeping your expectations low.
I was chocked when I realised Americans were people, just like me . . .movies and my expectations for Superman got me frustrated, but now it is allright . . .
You may now undertand a little better how important our Forum is and what we should do as far as behavior.
But I wouldn´t trade it for nothing.
Heron
 
If I hit the lottery , I am not sure what I would buy........

It would be a side by side.

Xenon
Sportcopter2
Magni M24................................. decisions , decisions ............
 
They all look good Chris!
You are the man to fly and report the differences and the final choice . . .now go buy a ticket. :D
Heron
 
Again ... I am not taking Dubin's side in this. But let's not rush to make Raphael a saint and don't judge all Americans by the way Rob has conducted himself. And PTKay, much of this forum is made up of "Americans".

Tom, I appreciate your comments.
You made your own experience with Xenon and Raphael first hand.

I am far from "making Raphael a saint".
What I know is, that within 5 years of his and Artur activity in Poland
they sold over 125 aircraft, 97% of it for export, and created almost 40 jobs
in the region where I live. And this is something in the time of crisis.

BTW: look carefully on the certificate he published.
The commercial name of the company is "Celier Aviation",
but followed by the name of Artur Trendak, and his home address
in MIchałowice, not the factory address. (Everybody can check it.)

I checked the legal situation, and formally the company is just
the personal business of Artur Trendak, from his home address.

I don't know the formal relations between Raphael and Artur,
I just read the certificate, and Raphael, besides his name in the logo,
has nothing to do with it.

As regarding "Americans", I never used this word in my post
and never refereed to the people, but to the "US market".

The market, where vicious lawyers were able to bring the whole
general aviation industry to near collapse. A market where everybody sues
everybody for everything, and the only winners are the lawyers.

I like the "Americans". Half of my family are "Americans", my uncle,
his 4 children, 5 grandchildren and a few great-grand children...

It's not the people, it's the system, and some of the people who created
it and protect it and keep it running to secure their profits.

I personally know nobody of the "dramatis personae" from the US.

I do believe, as usual, the truth is somewhere in between.

So, again, I like "Americans", I don't like American lawyers,
and I like this American rotorcraft forum. Period.
 
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Thanks PT K.

I agree with you on almost everything. This is with most of the people of the world. Take the politics out and the people are really great. I like the gyro pilots and fans also. But then there are a few that I don't like their way of doing their business.
 
WEll . . .if, at least, Americans learned to barbecue, they would be great mates . . . :D
That is because they know how to make beer now . . .
Heron
 
Beer?

Beer?

WEll . . .if, at least, Americans learned to barbecue, they would be great mates . . . :D
That is because they know how to make beer now . . .
Heron

Bull****. I tried their beer ( many different sorts) a couple of weeks ago and it was worse than cat's piss.
We Australians are the only people who make good beer.

Graeme.
 
But we have better beer commercials! Bar none.
 
True!
But even though Inbev bought Budweiser, the beer still the same made there, it was just a commercial plot to open certain markets.
Heron
 
If I hit the lottery , I am not sure what I would buy........

It would be a side by side.

Xenon
Sportcopter2
Magni M24................................. decisions , decisions ............

Chris that is the beauty of the lottery...

Buy one of each and mark them Mon-Tue, Wed-Thirs, Fri-Sat and fly the AC on Sundays!

Bull****. I tried their beer ( many different sorts) a couple of weeks ago and it was worse than cat's piss.
We Australians are the only people who make good beer.

Graeme.

Yes, US beer is like sex in a canoe*


*(F***ing close to water)

The real question is why do Aussies know what cat piss tastes like?? ;)

.
 
Guess who makes beer in Brasil?
IN a while we will be discussing cangaroo stakes and apple pie for dessert.
My picks
Grolsch
St Pauli
Lowenbrau
Presidente
Heineken
Itaipava
Brahma
Bohemia
Michelob
Guiness
my favorite when I got in the US - Old Milwaukee (by the way, won the taste competition)
Forster = australian for beer = commercial only.
Heron
 
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