Flight planning software

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
18,357
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2600+ in rotorcraft
I have been trying to plan my flight from KSMX to KBMC with Golden Eagle Flight Prep and DUATS. I have found that it is difficult to extract the information I am after. I called support and talked to a fellow who was not a pilot and he basically told me that much of the information I was after needed to be interpreted and was not available from the software. I ended up adding over 100 miles to the trip each way just to stay below 8,000 feet MSL.

As with any experience with new for me technology, I don’t even know what I would like flight planning software to do.

With the Predators new capabilities I am going to want to go further afield so I am looking for flight planning software that can identify paths around mountains, has surface winds available, can help me find identifiable waypoints, can help me find mountain passes, print sheets that I can use during the flight to identify my waypoints and whatever a good flight planning software can do to ease the flight planning challenges.

I am not good with computers so I would like something that can get me the information I am looking for with the fewest steps.

I called up Neal at RMS technology and he showed me a better way to fly to William J Fox field, AKA the gateway to El Mirage and my last fuel stop before the lake bed, using his software. He was willing to deal with real world challenges instead of fantasies that I have trouble relating my limited experience to.

He claims to be very hooked up with weather although he doesn’t have real surface winds.

At $199 for the software plus $119 per year for updates every 28 days it seems reasonable priced.

He seems to have a lot of airport information and it sounds like he has the information I need for my radio call sheets.

He didn’t laugh when I told him that I fly 1,000 feet AGL at 65kts and had tools in his software to help me with this.

I am wondering what my other options are.

I would be grateful for the benefit of the experience of those here on the forum.

I enjoy planning an extended flight with options for the unexpected; I would like to learn to do it better. Managing different weather systems, fuel, obstacles, MOAs, wilderness, airspace, density altitude and overnight accommodations seems like an interesting challenge.

This also gives me something to do while I wait for my new propeller so I can fly.

I do not want to rely on my GPS to let me know where I am going and my GPS doesn’t have terrain. I would like to add more detail to my planning process so I can identify it sooner when things start to go awry and have more options to manage the challenges as they develop.

Thank you, Vance
 
I've used fltplan.com for years. It does everything I want it to do for both VFR and IFR flights and is linked to weather for real-time leg flight times, wind speeds and directions and multiple altitudes. You can store your aircraft profile online (for a gyro, pick a slow FW aircraft and modify the specifications). You can do planning with or without filing.

You define the aircraft and save it once. Then all you have to do for a trip is enter the route (or direct), fuel onboard and departure time and it gives you several useful reports, such as trip log, fuel by leg, leg times and other useful data, along with the option of filing.

Oh yeah...it's free.
 
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Vance,

I have been using FlightSoft Pro for many years and like it alot. I used it for my flight around the US in 2005 and also for my flight from Fla to Colo last year. It is easy to use and very intuitive. I tried the Duats software a long time ago and never liked it. AOPA also has a software program. I think AOPA recently revised their program and I have not tried the new version yet.
One thing I like about flight soft pro is you do not have to be online to use it. You will only get updated wx when on line though.

Rob
 
flight planning software?

flight planning software?

Hello Kurt,

That is the AOPA flight plan software. I liked their old one better.

Thank you Jon,

I will try it and report on my impressions.

Hello Rob,

Is that the product by RMS? They have a product called flightsoft and flightsoft express but nothing called flightsoft pro.

Thank you for your help, I am off to work, Vance
 
fltplan.com

fltplan.com

I tried to plan my flight on fltplan.com and it didn’t seem to manage altitude or fuel stops in a way I could understand.

It has some features I like.

I liked the search for an alternate airport.

I liked the way it manages data.

It seemed very straight forward with useful help screens.

I like the availability of different charts.

I think I like the way it interfaces with filing a flight plan.

I will keep fooling with it and report back if I have success.

Thank you, Vance
 
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NavMonster

NavMonster

Thank you Brett,

I like the way NavMonster interfaces with Google earth and I like the way Google earth displays altitude.

I tried putting in all my fuel stops and it choked and gave me an error message.

I would like to be able to move the flight path so that I can print it and follow it on my knee board.

Thank you, Vance
 
I still ran out of way points.

I still ran out of way points.

Thank you Gabor,

That worked better and helped me identify the 8,800 foot ridgeline I might be flying over near Salt Lake City.

I like the airport diagrams and the views that will help me plan my approach and identify when I am doing it correctly. I have found this helps me to stay focused on the flying fundamentals.

I would like it to identify altitude obstacles, does it do that?

That is a feature I particularly liked about Flight soft, it has colors to show you how near the ground you are getting at a particular altitude.

I must get some work done, I will be back at this tonight.

Thank you, Vance
 
Hi Vance,

I've gone through the very decision making process you are going through just now. And I haven't come out with a clear cut answer. There are two programs I like best:

Flightplanner (www.flightplanner.de), which is a German only program, has the ability to use maps I am familiar with (i.e., sectional charts in the US and Jeppesen charts in Europe). It also prints nice kneeboard sized maps and exports flight planning data to Excel so that it can be automatically imported into various flight log formats (or just make your own). It can interface with weather data over the internet and displays real-time NOTAMs. It has a decent digital elevation model. But with all this said, it's useless for you because it is only available in a German language version and virtually unknown outside of Germany.

The other program I like is Jeppesen's FlightStar or FlightMap. They are the same program that they renamed at some point and I forget which the current one is. It has vector charts, and also allows you to buy certain raster charts. As far as I know it won't allow you to scan your own. It uses either DUATS' or Jeppesen's weather sources over the internet and also as a decent digital elevation model. It has regular updates (28 day cycle) and good information about airports.

In practice I used FlightStar at home to plan my route across the US. I used the internet (http://www.airnav.com/airports/) to search for suitable airports according to user reviews and fuel availability, adapting my route in FlightStar to information over the internet. Whenever I saw an iffy area (i.e., mountainous terrain, deserts, extensive forests, etc.) to cross, I would "fly" the route in Google Map, which has an excellent and amazingly accurate digital elevation model. This helped me to refine my routing and fine tune it in FlightStar.

Both programs offer auto routing options. I don't like this feature because the decision making process for choosing a particular route is something that I enjoy going through. It familiarizes me with the entire area I am planning to fly over. In the end I find a route which I like best and, at the same time, know what the other options are.

When done with the routing part, I imported the route into Flightplanner and used Flightplanner to print map sections and flight logs for my knee board.

Up to date weather information I got from FlightStar and DUATS and, of course, by talking to 1-800-WXBRIEF.

One very useful weather information tool is this website: http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/. Go to Java tools, and you can view the Metars and TAFs of all airports graphically and textually. Particularly in iffy weather, where I had to make a go/no-go decision, this helped me to decide.

I guess the upshot is that, for me, there is not one single best program to use. I tend to blend the respective strengths of several resources to make the result suit my needs.

Best wishes, -- Chris.
 
2nd for fltplan.com

2nd for fltplan.com

Vance,

I have been using fltplan.com for years.

It is an excellent program, and the benefit is that it gives you the winds at altitude for your proposed route, and can tell you whether or not you will make it faster at 4000 feet, 6000, or at 2000 based on current and forecasted conditions.

You can also update or develop your own aircraft with performance parameters, and it will tell you what your fuel burn is per leg...

If you want to go between two points, you type in your departure and destination. The default is to go "VFR-direct," but you can enter your own route, and add all the identifiers of the airports and waypoints between two points, and it will give an ETE enroute.

I don't know of ANY software that will plan a route for you based on an absolute altitude requirement - as in "I must go no higher than 8000MSL, but need to cross this mountain ridge that is 7600MSL, give me all route options available"

I don't know if it will help you, but you can even do consecutive legs, which plans stops of 30 minutes at each place.

The program is extremely intuitive, even for the non-computer guy, and you can get what you need, TO INCLUDE route weather...

Oh yeah... for a quick look at the VFR sectional for a route between any two points, on the left hand side, there is a yellow box that says "VFR sectional" - click on that, and you can see the route depicted on a sectional, with altitudes....
 
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I do all of my cross country flights with Airnav.com and the aviation fuel tab. You tell it how long you can fly and it will find all of the stops for you. I then take that info and put it into aeroplanner.com and plan the flight. You can print out a sectional and a navlog with winds.
 
Thank you for all your help!

Thank you for all your help!

Thank you Dave, that is quite a resource.

It will take me a while to sift through it.

Thank you for an excellent link.

Thank you Chris,

I am still marveling at how well you trip went.

It looks like you are doing the same thing I have been doing, wondering from resource to resource and sort of working them together in an iterative process.

Thank you Spencer,

I may be overreacting to the challenges of flying to the KBFFI. I was very nearly out of climb when I reached the grape vine. I had talked to local pilots and they had said that just a little over 3,200 feet would do it. They described the little slots that I would not have seen if I didn’t know they were there. I have read about more than one person who has found themselves up a blind canyon with unpleasant consequences. I thought I would need 6,000 feet to make it over the hills based on my sectional charts. I felt saved by the knowledge that was shared with me. I did not have to make that very hard decision to turn back.

The Predator has new capabilities and I always seem to have the power to climb. I have not yet found the edges of the envelope so I may be worried about nothing. It may be that the 10,000 feet MSL that I feel I need to get over the mountains on the northern route will be done with power to spare and get me better fuel mileage and speed as a bonus.

I was excited when Neal found a special pass over Lake Hughes to get to General William J Fox field at about 3,200 feet. I liked the idea of the colors and the way he does weather. It looks to me like his software does just what I want although it may not be what I need.

Hello Kenny,

I have been using Airnav.com as my basic planning tool. I go back and forth between the fuel stop planner and the sectionals to find something that works. I would go to Google earth to develop some waypoints. Sometimes I would have to find work around to get it to go where I wanted. It has been a great place to start.

I want to keep moving forward in my aviation and I feel like I know enough now to appreciate a flight planning software with a few more features.

It is confusing because once I have flown somewhere a few times there is not so much trepidation about the unknowns. I don’t know what this looks like. So far each time I have reached beyond my capability it has been a special adventure and I am pleased I have made the effort. Somewhere out there is a natural limit and I don’t mean to rush toward it.

It is hard to imagine that I may reach a point where when I am going cross country I just climb to 9 or 10 thousand feet MSL and fly direct. I love the way it looks when I go through the pass rather than over it.

Thank you all for your help, I have a lot to digest, Vance
 
Vance,

Yes my software is by RMS but I am sure it is a very old version. The new ones are even better.

BTW another product I like for flying in the SH or Xenon is the spiral bound books of VFR sectional charts. I just kept a couple of heavy clips on the page and could flip pages easily and re-clip them. Not sure how well it would work in an open gyro but probably still better than a full size sectional that would get ripped to shreds.

I always drew my route in flourescent market before the flights and then just kept if for backup if the Lowrance GPS quit.

Rob
 
When talking about navigation software the default would list airports, of course. Vance has an aircraft engine and can use Avgas, but what about the gyro's that use unleaded fuel? Can you get auto gas at an airport? Here in Florida, we have a lot of water around and I thought that, by using floats, you could land on a lake or bay and get gas at a boat marina. Is this an option?
 
I am leaning toward RMS.

I am leaning toward RMS.

Thank you for the thought Dave.

I think it is easy to forget that most people don’t care about gyroplanes. My adventures find a good audience here because it is what the forum members are interested in. My furthest trip so far is to San Carlos, Ca and I don’t fly to getaways.

Thank you Rob.

RMS is the direction I am leaning. I can accomplish everything with free software but it is more work and I have a poor work ethic. I find great value in flight planning especially when things don’t go as planned.

Hello Don.

Most of the airports I fly into don’t carry unleaded automotive gas.

I would council against using floats on your first gyroplane. Some people have had trouble with a gyroplane on floats. A few have been successful.

I have found that by coordinating with EAA chapters it is easy to get whatever you want at any airport that supports an EAA chapter. You just have to plan ahead and not be afraid to ask.

There are many people on this forum that would assist with cross country accommodations for automotive gas.

In my opinion it won’t be too long before they take the lead out of Aviation fuel so by the time you are ready to fly cross country this may no longer be an issue.

AirNave.com provides information of availability of automotive fuel at airports and according to them there are 109 airports nationwide that provide automotive fuel. I ran my range up to 600 nautical miles and I could still not get from SMX to BMC with automotive fuel.

Thank you, Vance
 
Vance,

Thanks for the information. As always your input is appreciated. My plan right now is to go to Benson Days in April 2010, and if I'm still sold on gyrocopters, will probably look at something like the Rotor Flight Dynamics Ultra White as my first acquisition. After some experience I will take a closer look at floats. There is just soooo much water in Florida, both off the cost and inland, that having the ability to be amphibious would open up many possibilities, especially in a forced landing situation.

Don Loftus
Gainesville, FL
 
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