Risk-taking behavior

Hognose

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
2,182
Location
Seacoast New Hampshire, USA
Aircraft
PA-28/J-3/various
Total Flight Time
Gyro - 2.5! FW, hundreds not thousands. Helo, 0 (some day!)
Gents,

been busy but I still fly a bit (not gyros, unfortunately) and think about flying a lot. One of the things I've always thought about is risk-taking behavior.

The fact is, many mishaps are caused by irresponsible or excessive risk taking. This is true across all aviation whether you are one guy in an ultralight gyro, or whether you are an airline trying to wring more hours for less money out of your pilots, or whether you are a military pilot preparing for or conducting combat operations.

On the other hand, you can't be a pilot without being a risk-taker. Other things being equal, you're safer at home on the couch than you are at the stick of an aircraft. And if you're so timid that you can't make quick, reliable judgments in the air -- well, nothing personal, but I'd rather not share the sky with you any more than we'd like to share it with a careless or reckless person. There is a risk-taking "sweet spot."

This blog post discusses just that, and suggests that there's a "golden third" -- a place on the risk-taking spectrum between paralyzed timidity and macho recklessness. And being in that golden third not only makes you more likely to be, say, a pilot -- it's positively correlated with happiness and life satisfaction.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/03/the-art-of-living-dangerously.html

There's some nonsense (and some non-nonsense) in the comments, but the post is solid. May you all optimize your risk-taking behavior... or, in fewer words, fly safe.

cheers

-=K=-
 
I dont take risks, and i dont want to die in bed either. ;)
 
I find nothing surprising in the blogger's conclusion that taking risks is associated with more satisfaction with one's life. What is life, if not a decades-long opportunity to balance risk and reward.

But successful businesspeople are those who skillfully assess the risk/reward ratio. We're not that methodical in choosing when, what, and with whom we fly.

I've read a jillion accident reports, and it left me shaking my head at the risks many pilots seem willing to take for no discernable reward. I guess some people find the adrenaline rush from cheating death worth the risks, as in the case of Russian Roulette players, but I don't relate.

In the case of aviation decision making, there are many components we don't normally think of as part of the ADM process. The safety of your next flight depends on a good preflight, moderate weather, knowledge of your route, currency and proficiency, all obvious and intuitive.

But it also depends on getting enough rest to allow you to be sharp. If you know some guy flying a Bensen/Mac is going to buzz your tent at dawn, then staying up till 1am the night before will be a risk component for a flight you'll take tomorrow. There are other decisions we make which will affect flight safety days or years later, including decisions made while buying/building a gyro, budgeting for training, deciding to spend the money for a radio, etc.

I think it's sad when someone takes a risk which results in the loss of his life in an activity which, to me, would not have been worth that risk had it succeeded.

I also feel sadness for people who live unrewarding lives because they're unreasonably afraid of risk.

Example: It's risky to get married and have kids. The rewards, however, are great, and not always obvious until the chance has been missed.
 
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Aviation risk is interesting. Most people will not engage in private flying (certainly not as pilots; many would refuse to get into a Cessna 172 for a free ride).

We are exposed every day to all sorts of risks, most of which are not very visible. The fact that they are hidden makes it easy for us to think we are safer -- in our cars, at our jobs or sitting on front of the TV -- than is really the case.

When flying, OTOH, and especially in a little open aircraft, your nose is rubbed in the risk. You can't readily ignore it.

No doubt you really ARE at more risk in the aircraft than parked in front of the telly, but some of the difference is perception rather than reality.
 
Wastin One's BREATH

Wastin One's BREATH

is what it all amounts to.. Times I have expressed my concerns about something and had it thrown back in my face..

Some folks will listen and try to understand that I'm NOT trying to be
"Your Daddy", but I'd hate to know that I didn't say something..
The Final Word/Control is the one thats lookin at Ya in the Mirror..

Seeing the mistakes that I have made and for some reason lived thru, YES we all take chances,, especially when flying and or learning to.



Kinda like crossing the street,, Stop. Look and Listen..

If Not...

When Ya Dumb,,,, Ya Gotta Be TUFF
 
I have done a lot of risky / stooped things in my life and I must say that I have never felt so alive as when in the act of doing something inherently lethal . In my older age I have slowly increased my vigilance for safety as I started running out of friends do to fatal " accidents " .
I stoped skydiving , sold all my jump gear 3 day's after I found out that my wife was pregnant with my girl . this 4 th of july it will be 14 years that I last jumped from a plane .
I wasnt saving the world from communist domination anymore , I was just drilling holes in the sky .
I miss it alot but almost every one I used to jump with is dead . Even the guy who last droped me 14 years ago was kill in that same plane .
I tell people that I would rather be lucky then good . Luck is the only explanation as to why I'm still here cuzz I just aint that good .
I don't fly anymore and I don't jump anymore .
I dream about it .
 
There is something about the rush a person gets when they do something risky. Whether it is skydiving, racing, riding horses or motorcycles and the one dear to my heart is flying. I really don't care if it is a plane or gyro as long as I am off the ground. I love the birds eye view. And I do prefer to fly my Gyro. I trust myself and what I have built more than what someone else built on a Monday or Friday.

It is the adrenaline rush that i get when I do my addiction.

Like someone has said if I have to explain it then I will be wasting my breath.
 
There is a great book which details the study of risk in mankind from the cave man to present time by Peter Bernstein called "Against The Gods". A must read for those with a serious interest in this facinating topic. Every day I went to work (the OR) I was intimately involved in risk taking, both on my part and the patients part. There is detailed analysis regarding business decisions which I found interesting.
 
Contrair Thom

Contrair Thom

I do agree with you in every aspect,, and I for one don't think you would take chances without first considering the alternatives.

I am speaking of those that won't listen to experience, if one lives thru the childishness and newness of gyro's, then as you say..

The world is wide open, ain't it
 
I also think this risk taking mentality shows up in the maintenance on some gyros.
I am finding new things everyday on my gyro I want to change just for this reason.
I will see something and say to myself.. "That will work just fine".
Then, the more I think about it I ask myself, "Would I bet my life on it?".
Whelp, another order to Aircraft Spruce!
Brad
 
Kevin- This risk taking thread is an interesting topic...thanks for posting it.

I have always noticed that people fall into a bell curve pattern for practically anything they do.

In this case.....we can plot the whole range of humans and how they take risks by the bell curve.

If we start on the lower left rim of the bell...and put the most timid...afraid to come out of the closet for fear something will hurt them...that will be our start. As we progress up the ever steepening left side of this bell curve...now we are finding people that are still less adventurous than the average cross section of the general population. Now...the top part of the bell curve contains the average person for what risks they take. They will ride commercial airlines..and the ones on the right half of this middle section of the bell curve may even ride in a private plane.

As we progress down the steepening right side of this bell curve...we find more adventurous people.....private pilots in general aviation....people in business for themselves....motorcycle riders.....

I would say somewhere further down this right side of the bell curve we find many of us here that fly these rotorcraft that the people in the average part of this bell curve would say was very risky.

Further down we are now approaching the right brim of this bell curve and we are getting into people that are really putting their lives on the line such as police officers in high crime areas....

Way out on the far right of the brim I would place as an example....would be a skydiver that jumps out of an airplane without a parachute....depending solely on his partner jumping after him....catching up to him giving him his life saving parachute.

So here we have the person on the far left brim of the bell curve afraid to come out of his closet for fear something might happen.....in contrast with the skydiver totally risking his life depending on the big calculated move that his partner will get to him in time with his chute.

Whats painfully true here is that death will eventually find us all.....its just how much life we want to experience and with what level of risk!

Stan
 
Fear, stands for false evidence appearing real. The one that builds a dangerous looking gyro, is totally ignorant of the danger so he sees no fear. I've seen one guy brazing up his control bar. I said, that looks weak, especially if you yank it over. His response, I don't do that sort of flying. I was in a plane full of skydivers, when oil starting spewing out of the right engine, everybody was eager to get out, thinking it was going to blow up any second. Totally oposite. Just the fear of what they think might happen. To many movies, i think. Bidy says he doesn't take risks. I'm not sure if he;s yanking our chain, but the minute you start your gyro, your taking a risk, not to mention buzzing beef at 10 feet. People die from bacteria. It may be the little things that will get us in the end. Adrenalin is good for feeling alive. I live with fear everyday, sometimes she lets me skydive.lol.
 
Its easy to validate risk.
If the endevour has a pourpose, reward or there is sumthn useful to be gained, its not a reckless risk.
Its a means to an end.

If OTOH, there is no real benifit cept ego boostn, chest beatn or to be able to say " i did it", then that is reckless.


Bidy says he doesn't take risks. I'm not sure if he;s yanking our chain
Im not yankn ya chain mate, im serious.
If theres nuthn to be gained from it, i cant justify riskn me neck do'n it.

Course, a few years back i used to take recless risks. Like race'n scooters through the desert, or abuse'n sumone i probably shouldnt have, but iv got greater priorities now, and my body be'n in good order makes it easier to meet my obligations. ;)
 
my body be'n in good order makes it easier to meet my obligations. ;)

:hail::hail::noidea::first::drum:

Just wait i cant reach the keyboard from where i am laughing on the floor, your just as much a broken down old fart as i am :eek:
 
Most of the posts here are my thoughts on how people will judge what risks they are prepared to take personaly.

There is bad publicity from what at times seems gyrocopters magnetic attraction to mother earth, verses being so weighed down by rules and regs designed to protect people from themselves that a home built gyro can't get off the ground.

Perhaps the time is coming for two catagories of gyro.

One catagory for those who simply want to buy a well made machine and learn to fly safely within the known limits of that machine.

Another catagory for home builders and those that like to fiddle about and make a few mods then try them out.
 
Just wait i cant reach the keyboard from where i am laughing on the floor, your just as much a broken down old fart as i am
Your just pissed that this old fart can still run rings round you. ;)
 
Good Thread.
Just got my first internet access in a month.

I have spent my entire life engaged in "risky" endeavors. Rock climbing and serious expedition climbing in the Himalyas and Alaska. Kayaking unexplored rivers including first descents in Mexico and the Himalayas, the first ski descent of a major route on Denali in Alaska, flying a gyro to 48 states, and sailing a small sailboat around the world- (including just passing thru pirate alley in the Gulf of Aden last month). As a filmmaker I made films of many of these endeavors and was filming the best climbers, kayakers, etc in the world. In hours and hours of interviewing these risk takers a common avoidance of risk is what emerges.
I would have to say almost universally the people pushing the envelope at the top end of risk sports try to eliminate as much risk as possible in these endeavors.
This is done with very detailed research, then meticolous planning and usually extensive physical conditioning and finally accepting the remaining risk and moving forward. In my experience these people are at the opposite end of the spectrum of "hey vern watch this"
And yes most would say there are living most fully when so engaged.
Rob
 
Perhaps the time is coming for two catagories of gyro.

One catagory for those who simply want to buy a well made machine and learn to fly safely within the known limits of that machine.

Another catagory for home builders and those that like to fiddle about and make a few mods then try them out.

That's what we were supposed to have already with Standard and Experimental categories here. The problem is that the Standard category is rather thinly populated, with just the Air & Space 18A and the McCulloch J-2. There's never been enough demand for aircraft of that sort to make a commercial success for a manufacturer.

The U.S. LSA rules are an attempt to create a third, intermediate category, holding costs down by limiting capabilities and regulatory requirements, and it seems to be working to some extent for fixed wing. There's a petition process underway (discussed on another thread) that is a step toward making things work a little more like that for factory built gyros.
 
Have to admit that was our dilemma when coming to the sport.

Either go factory build (fortune), or cheaper option, second hand (other peoples f#$*k-ups), or do-it-ourselves (our f#$*k -ups).

Figured that budget wise it was go it with a self build and live with our own mistakes. That way it would encourage us to do the research and at least understand the basics. Then at least as we head earthwards fast we don't blame anybody but ourselves.

As far as risk taking,never been averse to trying something new just makes sense to research it a bit. Not to say that we think we have done it right, but at least we have given it a darn good try
 
Reward Ratio

Reward Ratio

“Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” T.S. Eliot.

Risk reward ratio.... I take a risk to get a reward. If the reward has enough juice, I put my tongue on the third rail.

I am scared sthisles on take off roll.... but the minute she lifts, I am happy to pay that entry fee.

Easy math.
 

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