Difference between Lightning and Gyrobee

how much do you weigh howard? gyrobees, sport copters and butterflys will fly mostly the same if they weigh the same, have the same engine and the same rotor. their all stable! If you like to build or a tinkerer like me then get a gyrobee. If you just wanna fly get a butterfly or SC. just my .002 cents

I weight about 200lbs.I like to build ,tinker, I kinda like the GyroBee,except for the extra tall mast and extra wide stance.It won't fit in my pickup,like the Butterfly will!!!:peace:
 
Gyrobee? If I could live with the ultralight limitations (5 gals of fuel with it's + or - 45 mile range) I would choose the Butterfly hands down.
It even has a prerotator and can easily be upgraded.

Get a hold of Doug Baker he is on the forum and a Butterfly dealer and a heck of a nice guy too!!!

And I almost selected and purchased a Sportcoper, until I talked to Leigh at Bensen Days and he pointed out the differences in the Genesis, the Sportcopter turned out to be my 2nd choice.
 
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Aren't you also a dealer for the Genesis John? Sport Copter would be my second choice too if I worked for someone else :)

Anyway, aside from hype. Our ultralight won't be available until next year. I suggest anyone who is thinking of the ultralight category wait a little while (after winter) to select one.
Back to the hype:
All Sport Copter machines are built with AN or NAS hardware. We use the latest technology and have one of the best safety records. We utilize differential braking, suspension,castering nosewheel, geared down controls, and aircraft engines and parts. We strive for quality and customer satisfaction. We have captured a worldwide audience because of this. Sport Copter has a history of innovation and award winning designs.

No matter what machine you choose, the gyro experience is one of a kind and well worth it. I wish you the best.
 
@ Jon,
Yes buddy I am now. However, I wasn't a dealer or even considering the Genesis when I finally selected the Sportcopter after watching them fly at the last Bensen Days.

I was telling all of my friends at Bensen Days I had finally made my selection your Sportcopter.

When I got to Leigh he said John what about the Genesis. It's lighter, cheaper and the most stable new design I've seen.

I told him I didn't know Genesis made a 51% Kit in the USA and hadn't even considered it and was thinking one dimensionally of only US manufactures.

So I called Nicolas to discover if, when, and how much, etc...

Only after I told Nicolas that I was buying one did he make me an agent for him.

So you can BLAME Leigh it's all his fault!!!

PS:
I'm a Aviomania Agent ONLY because I beleive it's the lightest, most stable gyroplane on the market to fly and I'll be flying and selling these to my family and friends that is what I wish them to fly too. However, I would also fly a Shortcopter anywhere too.
 
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John,

I understand. We have some new things for 2011 that might change your mind though. It will be interesting to see how the competition gets when we release them.

I shot some video today that will raise eyebrows. Let's just say that our 912 machine got a makeover.

The new ultralight is almost complete and will have the Sport Copter touch. We have alot of testing to do, but I think you'll agree that it will be another great machine. It should be price competetive as well. We've been working on lowering costs on everything.....meanwhile we have extended huge discounts to new orders.

I wish you luck John. The Genesis is a new machine so I know nearly nothing about it. I hope it proves to be as good as you say it is.
 
Jon...

Jon...

Your killing me! How about you slip me some pics on the down low and I sorta promise not to share them with everyone?

Come on man.....(low blow coming)...."How's that shotgun shooting?"


:rolleyes:

Ben S
 
Ok Ben, my editing program crashed at the end of the day, but when I have it done, I will send you the link in private :)

Shotgun? What shotgun? :)
 
John,

I understand. We have some new things for 2011 that might change your mind though. It will be interesting to see how the competition gets when we release them.

I shot some video today that will raise eyebrows. Let's just say that our 912 machine got a makeover.

The new ultralight is almost complete and will have the Sport Copter touch. We have alot of testing to do, but I think you'll agree that it will be another great machine. It should be price competetive as well. We've been working on lowering costs on everything.....meanwhile we have extended huge discounts to new orders.

I wish you luck John. The Genesis is a new machine so I know nearly nothing about it. I hope it proves to be as good as you say it is.
Thank you Jon I cannot wait to see the new designs.

It's not just me that sees the difference in the Genesis Leigh was first to point it out but since then Chuck B, Tony and many of the pros have noted it's the only one with a racked keel and hinged tail so our tail won't be falling off even after years of flying. They understand it far better than I do, however I like the fact that they think it is good and I'll let you know when I fly her!

In any case more choices are better than less!!!
 
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John, what is a "racked" keel? Do you mean raked? That's only necessary if you don't have sufficient clearance. I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean for rotation angle?

Also, what do you mean "hinged"? We hold our tails with a bearing on the bottom, and a hinge on the top. Never had a failure in thousands of hours. It's almost impossible to tear it off. I've seen some designs that are simply awfull. The tail on a butterfly for example. The tail (horizontal) is starved if moved to max. Not exactly what you want for stability. And it's not strong...that style anyway.

I don't see how one could make an opinion without actually flying. Some "experts" here don't actually fly...nor do they hold a license. That's an opinion I could do without. Some opinions here are awfully JADED. I think you know what I mean. I'm biased of course :)

But, your right, more choices ARE better!!!
 
John- I am looking forward to my Genesis kit getting shipped. From what I have seen, studied, and heard , the Genesis will be a nice gyro. My painter is chomping at the bit to finally letting have free reins with the painting, of course with some influence! Its nice that the US will have another gyro to choose from. From the plans we have laid down, I feel rhe Genesis is going to hit the ground running, no pun! Stan
 
I'm biased too. Jon you opened the door.......

I'm biased too. Jon you opened the door.......

John, what is a "racked" keel? Do you mean raked? That's only necessary if you don't have sufficient clearance. I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean for rotation angle?

Also, what do you mean "hinged"? We hold our tails with a bearing on the bottom, and a hinge on the top. Never had a failure in thousands of hours. It's almost impossible to tear it off. I've seen some designs that are simply awfull. The tail on a butterfly for example. The tail (horizontal) is starved if moved to max. Not exactly what you want for stability. And it's not strong...that style anyway.

I don't see how one could make an opinion without actually flying. Some "experts" here don't actually fly...nor do they hold a license. That's an opinion I could do without. Some opinions here are awfully JADED. I think you know what I mean. I'm biased of course :)

But, your right, more choices ARE better!!!

More choices are better, agreed Jon.

I dont like gyro bashing or giving opinions on other gyros, especially if I haven't flown it. I make exception, if it has a high thrustline with questionable design configuration, principles applied.

Seeing as you opened the door Jon, perhaps you could give me a reasonable explanation of questions asked on this thread listed below, regarding the thrustline to C of G offset bought about by aiming the thrust above and away from the vertical C of G.

I heard you had issues with tails a while back.

Could you also explain you comment..........

"The tail (horizontal) is starved if moved to max. Not exactly what you want for stability. And it's not strong...that style anyway."

We are currently going through hang and balance tests of all Ozz gyros. The details of the SportCopters will be available eventually. Jon do you know what the offset is with a full load of fuel and a 200 lb pilot in a Lightning or a podded Vortex 582?

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=694&highlight=sportcopter+thrustline


Mitch
 
I wasn't trying to bash anyone so please don't be offended.

The issues we've had with tails was in the design phase and never reached the public. It was a learning lesson that we shared. This only applied to the first prototype of the SCII. The Vortex and Lightning have never had any problems. The current tail on all of our machines is the only way to go. The SCII tail is very effective even with the large body and with engine out.

I agree that a gyro with "questionable desgin configurations" could be judged on sight.

The butterfly tail.... I personally don't like it. It may be a nit picky thing, but I don't think it's very effective compared to other designs. Even if it worked "ok" I wouldn't choose it if given another option. It doesn't even have an airfoil shape. It's basically a deflector. It must be light though.

I'm not sure what you mean by "offset". Can you elaborate on what you are referring too?

I shouldn't have mentioned any names, I'm sorry for that.
 
Time out!! We are all friends here.
Let’s not turn this into a fight but a teaching lesson so newbie’s can learn.
I would own a Butterfly, Dominator, Sportcopter, and of course a Genesis!

They are all great aircraft.
Almost like arguing over which manufactures box wrench is best.
I would own and had selected all of the above over the course of my two-year learning curve.

Yes, Jon I meant raked; thanks for pointing that out I would have never noticed. Dyslexia prevents me form seeing much of a difference and it should be illegal for me to write. That is all I care to say on subject as I may be giving away trade secrets if you do not know what I mean form the comment so I withdraw them so as not to start of fight regarding my dad can beat-up your dad. Both dads are great, just a little different.

How do you evaluate something you cannot test drive?
Two years ago when I knew next to nothing regarding rotorcraft I discovered it’s not like anything I tried to buy before where you can always fly it before you buy it.
It was certainly not the way I bough and sold FW aircraft when I was a Piper dealer.

I like many before me, had to select a gyroplane by watching them at every fly-in and video I could find and observe the way the average pilot could:

1. Stable in the air and on crosswind landing, #1 factor
2. Weight of the aircraft, #2 factor for my purposes, the lighter the better in aviation
3. CLT
4. Functional HS
5. Take-off distance for the same wind but with different pilot weight and engines hard to really evaluate
6. Maneuverability; but with different pilot skills hard to evaluate
There were lessor things to like triangulated landing gear, etc.

As CB, Tony, and other pros started pointing out the Genesis benefits I paid attention and wished I could buy one but I did not know Nicolas had a 51% kit so I never considered them until Leigh told me I could.

Like a selection of any tool or aircraft for me the Genesis meets 100% of my usage needs for others your machines will be the best choice not ours.

I am happy if each persons needs are met much more than selling them a Genesis.

I am not in this for the money but it does help to charge off my new hobby!

I am only here to help and I know Doug and you guys are too!!

Your friend John
 
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I would hope we are all friends here. I don't want you to think I'm some kind of A hole. I'm trying to be as true as I can without offending anyone.
I only post what I believe to be true. If I'm wrong, please tell me. I may not like it, but I will definitly think about it. Many sleepless nights......

I have my head burried in my own world so please don't take me too seriously, I don't :)
 
I know Jon, IMHO those four are the best choice and all great aircraft arguing over which one is best again IMHO is like arguing over which wife I selected for me. She may not even look good to you.

I think pointing out how to select the correct ride for each person has to be different depending on how they are going to use it and what we should be concentrating on in the forum.
 
Let me put in 2 cents worth of etiquette 101 as
It applies to competing companies. I have sold curved stairways for years, while bidding against another curved stairbuilder. I know my competition doesn't do some of the extra detail that I put into my stairways, but he does real nice work anyway. When I talk to a potential stair client, never have I said what my competition doesn't do, but I just give them a good education on my methods and leave it at that. I always tell them that if I end up building their stairway, or if my competition does, that they will have a very nicely built stairway. I feel if I were being technically honest by telling my potential client why my competitions stairways are inferior, then I feel I would appear to have a bias and be acting like two competing used car salesman. I usually land the stairjob even though I am higher priced. People will usually pay for what they want, and sometimes all they want is the cheapest. .........................I would handle it the same way here with these four fine gyro companies. Each has advantages over the other and each will suit different people desires in different ways. Whichever gyro is chosen, the owner will have picked from a good company. Stan
 
@Stan
Yaw Mon! You said that much better than I, thank you!

I can make a good case for each one of them depending on how you are going to use her.
 
One benefit that might be looked at...

One benefit that might be looked at...

that is very important in my mind is the speed you can get the pre-rotator up to. If you land as I sometimes do in an area that has difficult terrain to get back in the air again, how will the machine handle getting you back out? Does it have an effective pre=rotator that can be pushed to the limit if necessary? does the rig have suspension that will help you over the bumps on take off?
Other things of importance to me "Are parts readily available?"
is it U.S. made (very slight importance but all else being equal)
is it "adaptable" As your abilities grow in your gyro you will undoubtedly be looking to customize it for your type of flying, for instance I have a cross between a light machine and a cross country flier. Mine isn't really optimized for cranking and banking because that's not generally the type of flying I do. So I have extended fuel capacity and gps instrumentation.
First and foremost is get in the air.period. Until you start flying and making your own opinions how will you know what suits you. I was almost done with my training before I had settled on a machine. For me the company was an easy choice the model not so easy (finances helped make that decision)
I don't know what these electric pre-rotators and light weight rotors will run up to,but that might be one important characteristic. But if you will be flying off a paved runway it won't
Ben S
 
Butterfly HS uses an airfoil shape.

Butterfly HS uses an airfoil shape.

I wasn't trying to bash anyone so please don't be offended.

The butterfly tail.... I personally don't like it. It may be a nit picky thing, but I don't think it's very effective compared to other designs. Even if it worked "ok" I wouldn't choose it if given another option. It doesn't even have an airfoil shape. It's basically a deflector. It must be light though.

QUOTE]

Jon,

I am not trying to start a debate here and do not want to even get into a discussion of which model is best or why. However I do want to correct you on the statement made above because it is simply innacurate and not true.

I am not sure why you feel the horizontal stabilizer on a Butterfly doesn't have an airfoil shape and that it is "basically a deflector". Perhaps you are confused with another manufacturer. I have seen many different Butterfly models and have never seen any that wern't built with an airfoil shape. To be most effective a Horizontal Stabilizer needs to be 1- Large enough, 2- it needs to be designed with an airfoil shape and 3- it needs to be on a long moment arm. The Butterfly line incorporates all 3 of these factors into it's designs and has a solid reputation for stable and easy to fly machines.

I am sure you had no intention of slandering a competitors product and simply made a mistake with the above comment. No harm done. We are still friends. I just wanted to set the record straight so that new people reading this thread would not be misled on that matter.
 
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