economy

WHY

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miami,oklahoma
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Ercoupe and Cessna 150, 152, 172, 140, Aeronca,7ac, Citabria,Chief,Piper PA11,PA12
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Now hat Bensen Days has come and gone, would anyone say that the economy had any effect on the event and did anyone see any other economic effects anywhere else?

Am wondering if there will be any noticeable effect on Sun and Fun and Oshkosh this year?

Tony
 
Numbers of machines was down at Bensen Days. I heard that the numbers were really down at Sun N Fun. I suspect Sun N Fun is pricing alot of people out of it. They keep raising prices and I quit going years ago.
 
In my opinion, a lot of why attendance was down at Sun N Fun is because a lot pilots made good aviation decisions as they studied the weather map.

To add to that, for the first day they were telling people to land somewhere besides Lakeland because the fields were too muddy for aircraft parking and they had nowhere to park all the airplanes.

The price of fuel doesn’t help the attendance either.

There was a lot of very nicely built aircraft to inspire me and I learned a lot.

I spent some time with Mr. Baily and his UFO gyroplane. It apparently has some remarkable capabilities. He says it can cruse at 124 miles per hour and will go 128 miles per hour straight and level. The VNE is 154 miles per hour. He was not flying because a student broke a bearing in the pre-rotator. He also didn’t have his 40 hours flown off. He has sold and delivered eight since the beginning of the year and they are all flying. It sounds like the economy is good for Mr. Baily.

Thank you, Vance
 
Hello Tim,

As I understood it the UFO is a kit.

Mr. Baily apparently has someone who helps people with the build so it doesn’t take very long. I was not able to understand it all as he explained it. He is a fast talker and the conversation moved a little fast for me to comprehend the details.

I had no idea there was such a market and things can happen so fast.

It is also amazing that they are able to achieve such performance from something that appears to be so conventional. Apparently the aerodynamics are much better than they appear to be.

He suggested that people who are interested go to the web site where they can read the numbers directly.

Thank you, Vance
 
I was thinking about the effect of the economy on the fly-in too. I was told that a bunch of gyros changed hands last year, I wonder how many changed hands this year. Mine was for sale and didn't sell, not even a nibble. I think the economy is having an effect on our sport and just about everything else too.
 
I think that when people saw me fly they probably got scared and left j/k The economy did not have any effect on me personally. I was burnin dinosaurs all week.
 
and the tips of your Dragon Wings. Those things get hot at 500+ RPM's. LOL. Keepe it up your very impressive.
 
I was toild they have over 500 flying world wide,,, Hmmmm I've never seen any fly at all..:noidea:

154......VnE whew,, that I gotts ta see...:argue:

I live a sheltered life anyway..:sad:
 
In my opinion, a lot of why attendance was down at Sun N Fun is because a lot pilots made good aviation decisions as they studied the weather map. Thank you, Vance

Yes Vance , I like your quote .."good aviation decisions".. and I think that applies to economics as well .. Most pilots plan for problems relating to weather , safety , economics better than the average person. If the economy looks questionable they will become conservative spenders well ahead of time in order to protect what they have until things improve again.

If you watch closely , about half way thru an economic downturn , those who see they will survive will burst forth with a lot more flying , and treat themselves with more pleasure activities to brighten things up.

In other words , the pilots who were not attending all the recent activities will likely be around for next year , and the year after that etc. Just careful planning and good decisions.


The world cannot afford to let the US economy suffer too much right now so here's hoping for the best....

Arnie M.
 
He has sold and delivered eight since the beginning of the year and they are all flying. It sounds like the economy is good for Mr. Baily.

Apparently, those 8 must be in another country because not one of them is registered with the FAA -- that is, according to their registry database.
 
He was not flying because a student broke a bearing in the pre-rotator.

I really don't want to make trouble ... but the bearing broke at Front Range Airport when Doc was visiting. Doc was the student, and his instructor was John Revenboer.

Apparently, Doc doesn't have a gyro license and he was hoping solo before Sun n Fun.
 
Hello Tom,

I am just repeating what Mr. Baily told me to the best of my recollection.

He was clear on the point that he had sold eight since the beginning and they were all flying. I even met his DAR.

I thought he said that he includes training with the purchase of a UFO and he is the Instructor.

The one he had at Sun N Fun weighed 950 pounds dry and he said it was registered as an ELSA. 1320 pounds gross doesn’t leave much capacity for fuel and a student with Mr. Baily as the instructor. The gross weight of some of the other models is 1600 pounds. In my opinion, that which would work better as a trainer.

Perhaps I was not listening fast enough or I miss heard. He told me that you two made up and that he wouldn’t make the mistake of engaging in that kind of childish interchange on the internet again. It sounds to me a little like you are baiting him.

I only stopped by his location in Chopper town twice and I mostly just listened to the questions from potential customers. A lot of people seemed very interested and didn’t seem to be put off by the $80,000 price tag for a flying aircraft and they seemed to feel that $60,000 for the kit was a deal. He said that the kit can be assembled in less than 150 hours. I explained to Mr. Baily that I was not a viable prospect because I already owned a gyroplane and did not covet a 128 mile per hour enclosed gyroplane. I didn’t want to waste his time that could be better used to sell even more UFOs.

He was very clear about the performance numbers because I explained that I ran the specifications through Martin Holman’s calculations after my first encounter and I was not able to reach those numbers. When I shared my confusion, Mr. Baily explained that the remarkable speeds were because of the superior aerodynamics. He said that he has personally flown all of those speeds in his personal aircraft and his is a little faster because it has a modified EJ 25 Subaru engine that makes 195 horsepower.

I think we have taken this thread a little off track. I was just commenting on what I found to be an interesting counterpoint to the perception of a poor economy. Apparently with a product as remarkable as the UFO sales are not affected by an economic downturn.

Thank you, Vance
 
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The economy did not have any effect on me personally. I was burnin dinosaurs all week.
Hehehe... Speaking of fuel costs, have you seen the new $5 bill?
 

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Hello Tom,

I am just repeating what Mr. Baily told me to the best of my recollection.

I thought he said that he includes training with the purchase of a UFO and he is the Instructor.

He told me that you two made up and that he wouldn’t make the mistake of engaging in that kind of childish interchange on the internet again. It sounds to me a little like you are baiting him.

I am by no means battling him. My firends at Front Range tell me he is a very nice man and the UFO looks very good!

However, he and Revenboer did a pretty good job of trying to destroy my credibility by saying I had an unsafe attitude toward flying. So I found it ironic that he (who never flew a gyro before) came to Front Range to have John Revenboer solo him in a day so he could demonstrate his machine at Sun n Fun.

He is not an instructor, he is a student with virtually no time in gyros.

I am not trying to start a battle -- but it seems to me that someone should set the record straight if they know the facts to be different than stated here.

As a consumer advocate, I would encourage potential customers never to take the word of anyone, but to get proof. Talk to the previous customers (all 8 of them) to see if they indeed built the machines in 150 hours. Then see if they are flying and ask about performance numbers ... then ask who gave their instruction.

That kind of due diligence is wise no matter who you are dealing with.

Credibility is an important thing -- especially when you are selling something to the public. You should be able to back up what you say and it should not be considered a "challenge" or "battling" when someone states "facts".

Sorry if I sounded argumentative. That is not my intent.

As was one stated here (in a discussion about me) ... I am just trying to save lives.

Now ... getting back to the point of the thread: The economy is NOT as bad as the media is portraying it. And to find that out all one needs to do is examine the numbers. First of all, the swing from "good to bad" with almost all economic indicators are not enough to make the economy very good or very bad. It is mostly a matter of perception. For example, the same number of people are living and breathing and need consumable products. Many of them "hold off" when they believe the economy to be bad for fear of "something worse". However, their needs (or housing, transportation, etc) stay the same. So eventually there becomes a "pent-up" demand. When that lets loose, one perceives the economy to be doing better, when in fact, it is just catching up.

The economy will always inflate and deflate. The thing that makes the "inflation" or "Deflation" (or recession) bad, is our behavior during those times. For people who are "investing" in real estate, now is a great time. For those who need to sell, it is a bad time. If one can time their activities to the right cycle, they will never have a "bad" economy when it comes to themselves.

The segment of the population buying expensive toys are not affected because they usually adjust their trends to meet the economic cycles.
 
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I am by no means battling him. My firends at Front Range tell me he is a very nice man and the UFO looks very good!

However, he and Revenboer did a pretty good job of trying to destroy my credibility by saying I had an unsafe attitude toward flying. So I found it ironic that he (who never flew a gyro before) came to Front Range to have John Revenboer solo him in a day so he could demonstrate his machine at Sun n Fun.

He is not an instructor, he is a student with virtually no time in gyros.

I am not trying to start a battle -- but it seems to me that someone should set the record straight if they know the facts to be different than stated here.

As a consumer advocate, I would encourage potential customers never to take the word of anyone, but to get proof. Talk to the previous customers (all 8 of them) to see if they indeed built the machines in 150 hours. Then see if they are flying and ask about performance numbers ... then ask who gave their instruction.

That kind of due diligence is wise no matter who you are dealing with.

Credibility is an important thing -- especially when you are selling something to the public. You should be able to back up what you say and it should not be considered a "challenge" or "battling" when someone states "facts".

Sorry if I sounded argumentative. That is not my intent.

As was one stated here (in a discussion about me) ... I am just trying to save lives.

Now ... getting back to the point of the thread: The economy is NOT as bad as the media is portraying it. And to find that out all one needs to do is examine the numbers. First of all, the swing from "good to bad" with almost all economic indicators are not enough to make the economy very good or very bad. It is mostly a matter of perception. For example, the same number of people are living and breathing and need consumable products. Many of them "hold off" when they believe the economy to be bad for fear of "something worse". However, their needs (or housing, transportation, etc) stay the same. So eventually there becomes a "pent-up" demand. When that lets loose, one perceives the economy to be doing better, when in fact, it is just catching up.

The economy will always inflate and deflate. The thing that makes the "inflation" or "Deflation" (or recession) bad, is our behavior during those times. For people who are "investing" in real estate, now is a great time. For those who need to sell, it is a bad time. If one can time their activities to the right cycle, they will never have a "bad" economy when it comes to themselves.

The segment of the population buying expensive toys are not affected because they usually adjust their trends to meet the economic cycles.

Hello Tom,

The word I used was baiting, not battling. How do you know that he has no hours in a Gyroplane? He does not need to be signed off to solo an experimental gyroplane. He can fly it with a private pilot’s license and it is my understanding that he has a commercial helicopter rating.

Mr. Baily said he has over 15,000 in a helicopter and close to 20 hours on his personal aircraft. He has explored his personal UFO’s flight envelop to verify the performance numbers. Perhaps I misunderstood and he is not a CFI. He does seem to be a very nice man. He was patient with my ignorance about his aircraft and he didn’t seem to take it personally when I questioned some of his claims.

I don’t know much about how to buy a gyroplane, I have only purchased one and because it is one of a kind there was no one to ask but the fellow I bought it from.

So far it has exceeded all my wildest fantasies.

I was too excited about flying to do my due diligence.

Did you do all that due diligence before you bought your Xenon?

Thank you, Vance
 
I think you may be mistaken about an experimental Gyro. I am pretty sure that a FW private Pilot's license is only for SEL craft and NOT rotorcraft.

Even though it is experimental, I believe you need to add the rotor-gyro category to be legal.

BTW ... he told my friends he did not have gyro time. But I do understand he is a very experienced helicopter pilot.

So, can helicopter pilots with high time fly gyros without a ticket? And can a private pilot fly an experimental gyro without a gyro category? I did not think so ... but I may be wrong.

BTW ... I did do a lot of research before buying the Xenon. I do it before buying anything serious. And I encourage others to do the same -- especially in the gyro world.
 
I am often mistaken Tom.

It was my understanding that a private pilot can fly anything experimental solo.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will step in here.

I am an impulse buyer and I have seldom been disappointed with my purchases.

I don’t really know enough about many things to ask useful questions and I don’t have much fiscal discipline.

I seem to have an unusual amount of good fortune.

I feel that you advice is sound.

Thank you, Vance
 
A private pilot can indeed fly an experimental aircraft, provided the Operating Limitiation of the individual aircraft do not require a category and class rating.

If no rating is specified, any powered rating will do.

I fly mine on my Private ASEL.
 
Vance, Tom,
Here is the line from the FAA "boilerplate" operating limitations for Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft. It defines licensing requirements.

(16) The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold a pilot certificate or an authorized instructor's logbook endorsement. The pilot in command must meet the requirements of § 61.31(e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j) as appropriate.
 
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