Drill

One philosophy is pay and die and rebuild the country with out as much as a thank you years latter the other will keep what it pays and dies for.
John they are just opposing philosophies each of us must search their soul for the only answer that matters to each individual and for most it's very easy to see who is who in our zoo.
 
John with equal respect, whichever one you choose, the ruthless one's are on the other side!!

George O started out by favoring Russia and going to live there before returning and writing Animal Farm. Seems he changed his mind.
 
All we get in the media is propaganda. Since the winner gets to write the history, I expect it would go something like this: The evil leader of the rogue nation of Georgia attacked, without provocation, the tiny, peaceful, country of South Ossetia. Russia was therefore forced to come to the aid of their friendly neighbors against the bullying Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili.

The only problem is that there is nothing untrue about that version of events.


What is Georgias rationale for attacking South Ossetia in the first place?
 
Russia's Strike Shows The Power Of the Pipeline

Russia's Strike Shows The Power Of the Pipeline

Russia's Strike Shows The Power Of the Pipeline

What we've been reminded once again is that Vladimir Putin is perfectly willing to sacrifice the rule of law and the good opinion of others to protect the Russian empire and the energy monopoly that sustains it. The techniques he used to bring Georgia to heel, while more lethal and destructive, have the same thuggish quality as the techniques Putin uses to silence domestic opposition and to expropriate the energy assets of Yukos, Shell and BP.

A little pipeline history: It was just as Putin was coming to power in 1999 that an agreement was reached to create the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline. The project would allow Azerbaijan and its production partner, BP, to bypass Russia and transport their newly drilled oil instead through Georgia and Turkey to a port in the eastern Mediterranean.

No sooner was BTC completed, however, than Western officials began exploring the possibility of other pipelines that could reach beyond Georgia and Azerbaijan to Turkmenistan, which was thought to have some of the world's largest gas reserves. Their interest was not only in "energy security" and the prospect of oil riches for Western energy companies, but also in promoting Western-style democracy and free-market capitalism in the former Soviet republics.

GEORGIA: UP TO 50 RUSSIAN JETS ON THE ATTACK - TBILISI

Aug 11 - Dozens of Russian bombers attacked Georgia overnight, according to the Georgian foreign ministry.

According to Alexander Novitsky, an aide to the commander of Russian peacekeepers, Moscow is deploying a sub-division of paratroopers, consisting of more than 9,000 troops and more than 350 armoured vehicles. "The strengthening of the peacekeeping contingent is aimed at preventing a repetition of the situation Russian troops were confronted with in Tskhinvali"


Russia halts assault after Georgia 'punished'

Officials of the small Caucasus nation claimed Russians were still firing on Georgian troops in the Kodori Gorge area of Abkhazia, one of two breakaway regions friendly to Russia.

An Associated Press reporter saw a 135-vehicle Russian convoy heading towards the area. Abkhazian officials claim their troops are the ones doing the shelling.

If Russia succeeded in destabilizing Georgia and the pipeline -- which takes oil from the Caspian Sea and Central Asia -- ever shut down, then all energy would have to flow through Russia, MacKinnon said. "It would give them an even tighter control over the energy supply to Europe and the West."
 
Russia has destabilized Georgia and probably shortly, will the pipeline. Who or what is to stop it?
 
Vladimir Putin shows West he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

Vladimir Putin shows West he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

Vladimir Putin shows West he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.
6:34PM BST 13 Aug 2008

The Russian soldiers were unusually jovial, waving their hands and pumping their fists at western reporters as their military convoy roared along the highway towards the Georgian capital city of Tbilisi.

This may have been the deepest Russian military incursion into foreign territory since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, and yet these soldiers acted as though they were going for a Sunday afternoon jaunt.

In a way, they were.

The moment a 70-strong convoy of infantry fighting vehicles, field guns, military transport trucks and armoured personnel carriers turned out of the strategic town of Gori and onto the main road to Tbilisi, Georgia and many western observers erupted in panic.

No one knew what the Russians were doing or where they were going. Wearing broad smiles and winking conspiratorially, the Russian troops denied they knew their destination until the convoy suddenly rumbled off the highway and down a track towards the village of Orsojani, about 40 miles north of Tbilisi.

Vladimir Putin, the Russian prime minister, knew exactly what he was doing. This little incursion was clearly designed to taunt the Georgian president Mikheil Saakasvili, whose air force has been largely destroyed after a humiliating defeat after just five days of war, and mock the West.

Yet, taking advantage of the first day of peace, Russian troops penetrated deeper into north-eastern Georgia than at any time during the conflict.

Mr Putin was essentially telling the West that he could do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. There was also serious intent. By briefly threatening Tbilisi, Mr Putin may have been hoping to distract Western attention from serious Russian breaches of the ceasefire agreement. Russia had already occupied Gori and severed the country's main trade route to the Black Sea. South Ossetian irregulars also took advantage of the chaos to commit civilian killings in Georgian villages, eye witnesses said.

On a day of surreal irony, Mr Putin must also have taken satisfaction from the fact that Chechen troops from the Russian army's 42nd division led the push to Orsojani. Many of these men had fought against Mr Putin when he launched the Second Chechen War in 1999. The Chechens may have been battle hardened, but they were hardly organised. There was an air of chaos in this advance, just as there had been with the Georgian army's headlong retreat two days earlier.

Many of the soldiers in the advance seemed more interested in the western photographers hanging out of windows from cars that careered back and forth along the long, slow line the convoy took.

"Where are you going," the reporters shouted. "To see Saakasvili," one Chechen shouted.

Adding to the chaos, civilian cars and even a horse and cart belonging to fleeing residents of nearby villages tore through the dirt, wending their way manically through the column. Others stood in disbelief and fear, watching the Russian flags fluttering above military trucks pulling anti-aircraft guns and artillery.

At one point, the Russians nearly did make an unintentional advance on Tbilisi with a group of five military trucks missing the turn off to the village of Orsojani. An accident that could have provoked the resumption of war was averted, however, as the Russian soldiers realized they had gone wrong and asked journalists if they had a map.

Further towards the Ossetian frontier, two Russian armoured personnel carriers guarded a checkpoint manned by Chechen soldiers tasked with stopping traffic passing from Georgia's Black Sea ports to Tbilisi.

The Chechens, who were behind trees above the roads, lolled in the shade smoking cigarettes.

"You got any American cigarettes," one asked. "Russian ones are dreadful." From beyond them, smoke rose into the air from burning villages and bursts of automatic gunfire could be heard further down the road.

An old woman stumbled down the road, running painfully in the direction of Tbilisi, blood oozing from her eye.

"Chechens and South Ossetians are killing people in the villages," she shouted as she slowly hobbled into the distance.

Russian soldiers claimed that their intervention was motivated by a desire to provide humanitarian assistance. There was little sign of that as Russian tanks destroyed a deserted military base in Gori, again in contravention of the terms of the ceasefire, and turned a blind eye as South Ossetian irregulars looted the town. According to eye-witnesses, there were sprees on villages between Gori and the border.

South Ossetian fighters, their faces covered in balaclavas, also robbed at least three western news teams of their cars at gunpoint.

The official fighting might be over, but the plight of both Georgian and Ossetian civilians could become far more desperate. With some Georgian civilians picking up arms and heading to the front line, the buffer zone protecting South Ossetia that Russia is establishing risks become a scene of Balkan style atrocities.
 
Larry, Did you find out why President Mikheil Saakasvili Attacked South Ossetia in the first place? There seems to be almost no mention of the Georgians surprise attack on Ossetia or his reasoning behind it. How could he have been so stupid to think that Russian wouldn't defend them? Or did he think he would get some Western help?
 
How to Stop Putin
By Charles Krauthammer
Thursday, August 14, 2008;

[Rather long, but Charles Krauthammer has some good points.]

His objectives are clear. They go beyond detaching South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia and absorbing them into Russia. They go beyond destroying the Georgian army, leaving the country at Russia's mercy.

The real objective is the Finlandization of Georgia through the removal of President Mikheil Saakashvili and his replacement by a Russian puppet.

Which explains Putin stopping the Russian army (for now) short of Tbilisi. What everyone overlooks in the cease-fire terms is that all future steps -- troop withdrawals, territorial arrangements, peacekeeping forces -- will have to be negotiated between Russia and Georgia. But Russia says it will not talk to Saakashvili. Thus regime change becomes the first requirement for any movement on any front. This will be Putin's refrain in the coming days. He is counting on Europe to pressure Saakashvili to resign and/or flee to "give peace a chance."
The Finlandization of Georgia would give Russia control of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is the only significant westbound route for Caspian Sea oil and gas that does not go through Russia. Pipelines are the economic lifelines of such former Soviet republics as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan that live off energy exports. Moscow would become master of the Caspian basin.

Subduing Georgia has an additional effect. It warns Russia's former Baltic and East European satellites what happens if you get too close to the West. It is the first step to reestablishing Russian hegemony in the region.

What is to be done? Let's be real. There's nothing to be done militarily. What we can do is alter Putin's cost-benefit calculations.

We are not without resources. There are a range of measures to be deployed if Russia does not live up to its cease-fire commitments:

1. Suspend the NATO-Russia Council established in 2002 to help bring Russia closer to the West. Make clear that dissolution will follow suspension. The council gives Russia a seat at the NATO table. Message: Invading neighboring democracies forfeits the seat.

2. Bar Russian entry to the World Trade Organization.

3. Dissolve the G-8. Putin's dictatorship long made Russia's presence in this group of industrial democracies a farce, but no one wanted to upset the bear by expelling it. No need to. The seven democracies simply withdraw. (And if Italy's Silvio Berlusconi, who has been sympathetic to Putin's Georgia adventure, wants to stay, he can have an annual G-2 dinner with Putin.) Then immediately announce the reconstitution of the original G-7.

4. Announce a U.S.-European boycott of the 2014 Winter Olympics at Sochi. To do otherwise would be obscene. Sochi is 15 miles from Abkhazia, the other Georgian province just invaded by Russia. The Games will become a riveting contest between the Russian, Belarusan and Jamaican bobsled teams.

All of these steps (except dissolution of the G-8, which should be irreversible) would be subject to reconsideration depending upon Russian action -- most importantly and minimally, its withdrawal of troops from Georgia proper to South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The most crucial and unconditional measure, however, is this: Reaffirm support for the Saakashvili government and declare that its removal by the Russians would lead to recognition of a government-in-exile. This would instantly be understood as providing us the legal basis for supplying and supporting a Georgian resistance to any Russian-installed regime.

Bush needs to make up for his mini-Katrina moment when he lingered in Beijing yukking it up with our beach volleyball team while Putin flew to North Ossetia to direct the invasion of a neighboring country. Bush is dispatching Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to France and Georgia. Not a moment too soon. Her task must be to present these sanctions, get European agreement on as many as possible and begin imposing them, calibrated to Russian behavior. And most important of all, to prevent any Euro-wobbliness on the survival of Georgia's democratically elected government.

We have cards. We should play them. Much is at stake.
 
Larry, Did you find out why President Mikheil Saakasvili Attacked South Ossetia in the first place? There seems to be almost no mention of the Georgians surprise attack on Ossetia or his reasoning behind it. How could he have been so stupid to think that Russian wouldn't defend them? Or did he think he would get some Western help?

John,

Part of this is my opinion.

Read somewhere that Russia did a test cyberattack last month with a jet flyover. They started the cyberattack a few days before the ground attack. Russia has been building up on the border as evident by the amount of troups and equipment that rolled in. There were small ground fights between South Ossetia and Georgia. Georgia took the bait and tried to establish themselves in Ossetia and to the West. He who holds the ground wins. It also the reason that Russia has still been creeping further into Georgia even after the cease fire. Puttin is not going to leave until he has his own government and controls all the oil and pipeline going through Georgia.

About 10 years ago I was interested in working the oil industry in Russia. Even learned a little Russian. Met a student from Georgia whos parents taught at the university. They are the most progressive and democratic of all the Soviet block countries. Many of the major oil companies are looking or have worked the areas to the east of Georgia & are getting/were ready to make big investments. In the Russian oil field everyone wants/gets a cut, thus Georgia was set to make some big cash in the near future.

Putin will destroy these people. Yes, Georgia was foolish...maybe. Putin was going to own Georgia one way or another. I think their pride got in the way and they figured that the U.S. and others from the coalition in Iraq would help with a standoff, the world would notice & Russia would not dare to march in. There was no standoff it was a massive assalt as Putin with his new Soviet Pride/Hard cores were ready to hammer Georgia to show the world they are still the great powerful Russia.

Putin, X-KGB is a very bad person. It is said you never get out of the KGB..well at least alive. They will make an example of you by rolling you feet first through a crematory oven. Or burn you from the inside out with radiation...same method. Very suttle message. Putin will control energy in this part of the world and the Artic circle. I have said this before; Energy is Power. Control the worlds energy, you control the world. Iran and the Middle East will be next on his list.

John,
Do you believe this is Russia just trying to defend the little guy? Follow the cash.

***********
When Computers Attack

The cyberattacks in Estonia were apparently sparked by tensions over the country’s plan to remove Soviet-era war memorials. Estonian officials initially blamed Russia for the attacks, suggesting that its state-run computer networks blocked online access to banks and government offices.

The Kremlin denied the accusations. And Estonian officials ultimately accepted the idea that perhaps this attack was the work of tech-savvy activists, or “hactivists,” who have been mounting similar attacks against just about everyone for several years.

Georgia accuses Russia of co-ordinated cyberattack

On Saturday, the RBN blog, which is run by security researcher Jart Armin, claimed there was a "full cyber-siege" of Georgia. The RBN blog post claimed that the Russia-based servers AS12389 Rostelecom, AS8342 Rtcomm and AS8359 Comstar were controlling all traffic to Georgia's key servers.

Georgian president suffers cyberattack
Tom Espiner ZDNet.co.uk
Published: 21 Jul 2008 17:12 BST

"For over 24 hours the website of President Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia... has been rendered unavailable due to a multi-pronged distributed-denial-of-service attack," wrote Adair on Sunday. "Shadowserver has observed at least one web-based command and control server taking aim at the website, hitting it with a variety of simultaneous attacks."

Several security vendors said that forces in Russia could have been involved, pointing to recent political tensions between the two countries.

On the ThreatExpert blog, researcher Sergei Shevchenko said the hack attack had been preceded earlier this month by the Russian airforce deliberately flying planes over the troubled Georgian region of South Ossetia, without permission from the Georgians. The Russians stated they had done this to "cool hot heads" in the Georgian capital Tbilisi.
Arbor Networks's chief analyst, Jose Nazario, pointed to political tension in another region of Georgia, Abkhazia, as well as tensions in South Ossetia, as being possible catalysts to the attack.

"This attack appears to have a political motivation," wrote Nazario in a blog post. "One of the messages in the floods (HTTP, SYN, ICMP) reads 'win+love+in+Rusia'. Tensions between Russia and Georgia appear to be running high lately."

Russia was blamed for cyberattacks last April against another of its neighbours, Estonia.

[It's their humor, they like to send nice little suttle messages to people in the "know".]
 
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Russia defies truce with Georgia; US sending aid

Russia defies truce with Georgia; US sending aid

Russia defies truce with Georgia; US sending aid

OUTSIDE GORI, Georgia (AP) — A Russian military convoy defied a cease-fire agreement Wednesday and rolled through a strategically important city in the former Soviet republic of Georgia, which claimed fresh looting and bombing by the Russians and their allies.

President Bush said a massive U.S. aid package was on the way for tens of thousands uprooted in the conflict and demanded Russia "keep its word and act to end this crisis."

An Associated Press reporter saw dozens of Russian trucks and armored vehicles leaving the city of Gori, some 20 miles south of the separatist region of South Ossetia and home of a key highway that divides Georgia in two, and moving deeper into Georgia.

Soldiers waved at journalists and one jokingly shouted, "Come with us, beauty, we're going to Tbilisi." The convoy roared southeast, toward the Georgian capital, but then turned north and set up camp about an hour's drive away from it.

He said he was sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice first to France and then to Tbilisi to reinforce U.S. efforts to "rally the world in defense of a free Georgia."

For her part, Rice said: "This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia where Russia can threaten a neighbor, occupy a capital, overthrow a government and get away with it. Things have changed."
He said on national television that the U.S. arrival of a military cargo plane with humanitarian aid "means that Georgia's ports and airports will be taken under the control of the U.S. Defense Department."

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell stressed the United States had no plans to take over Georgian airports or seaports to deliver the aid.
"It is simply not required for us to fulfill our humanitarian mission," he said. "We have no designs on taking control of any Georgian facility."

In a sharp response to Bush's speech, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov called Georgia's leadership "a special project of the United States. And we understand that the United States is worried about its project."
Russian news agencies quoted him saying the United States would have to choose "support for a virtual project" and or "real partnership" on issues such as U.S.-Russian cooperation on Iran and other world tension spots.

[Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has about the same amount of time as Alexander Litvinenko had unless Rice pulls something out of the hat. I'll bet those humanitarian flights are extremely slow at unloading. Heck Rice will probably be in Tbilisi before they are all unloaded]
 
John Ossetia has been a point of conflict for centuries. Although a separate entity Ossetia has been part of both Georgia and Russia. Seems to have been invaded and had a rough time from both sides over the years. Geographicaly it does lie rather strategicaly within Georgia and probably why the Georgians would wish to control it.

My guess as to why general interest /sympathy at the moment lies with Georgia as opposed to Russia would seem to be of the two systems the Georgian one would seem to be the more open/free/democratic of the two.

Russia has for, again centuries, demonstrated a national ruthlessness and history of massive human extermination that tends to lose my sympathy in a choice between systems of government. But John you go ahead and support whichever side you want, it's a freedom you enjoy, and many others don't, but then again my guess is you simply enjoy playing the Devil's advocate.
 
From What I have found, Ossetia has never been part of Georgia except when Georgia has invaded it and seized control. They do not now want to be part of Georgia, and in fact, hate Georgia. That doesn't mean I think it right or proper for Russia to be in Georgia, or that I support Russia. Any idiot knows that if you pee on a sleeping bear your likely to get hurt, badly. Obviously the president of Georgia is an idiot.

What I think happened is that the president of Georgia got elected on, in part, the platform that he would reincorporate Ossetia. The Russians stationed "peacekeepers" in Ossetia with the permission of the Ossetian government which has been operating independantly for as long as the Georgian government since the break up of the Soviet Union. That and other acts angered the Georgians. They must have gotten some indication that the attack on Ossetia would be supported so they did.


I am surprised at the near complete lack of independant thought on any world issue here. Most posts are simply cut and paste of some article from somewhere else without a moment of thought given to whether it is true, valid, or any other point of view. virtually every one of those views are completely 2 dimensional, everything is either black or white. The world is, in my opinion, hardly a black or white place.
 
I am surprised at the near complete lack of independant thought on any world issue here. Most posts are simply cut and paste of some article from somewhere else without a moment of thought given to whether it is true, valid, or any other point of view. virtually every one of those views are completely 2 dimensional, everything is either black or white. The world is, in my opinion, hardly a black or white place.

John,

You need to re-read what I said about Putin. He has worked his way into a permanent position in control.

Russia will destroy Georgia so they will never be anything but a shell. Putin in effect has just nationalized the oil industry in this area for Russia. It is about Russia's control of the region (which goes beyond Georgia), and control of energy. This affects the world.

Actually I think in White, Black and Grey. 80-90% prob fact, 80-90% prob fiction, the rest go into grey...it is a form of multiple working hypothesis with a 25 yr base of prob facts in earth science and energy. Yes, you can only find info on tracing servers in a cyberwar from a bunch of Geeks. But it is something to think about as digital information and communication are the first hit in a war. Both sides have a story. And if you are running misinformation like Russia is now, it is nice to shut off the other guy.
 
I agree Putin has usurped the system that had put him in place. I also believe he radiologically poisoned the Russian defector a few years ago and has done a number of terrible things. However, attacking, without real provocation, Russian military in a neighboring pro Russia state, was a demonstration or unprecidented stupidity. Phenominally retarded. Virtually Begging to be attacked in return by Russia. The media is completely ignoring this fact. You accuse Russia of spinning the facts of this conflict, and I'm sure they are telling many lies, but I see quite alot of manipulation and lies by omission by our own media too.
In the end, it's as you say, a control of energy issue. Georgia controlled the pipeline and Russia the oil. Russia chafed at having to deal with a little pissant nation it used to own and they were about as enthusiastic of the possibility of having an American Star Wars defense shield located there as we were of having missles in Cuba. The spin by our media is that it's the good Georgians and the bad Russians but thats for people that live in Disneyworld, not the real world.
 
John not all here are completely devoid of independent thought, a rather presumptuous statement of yours. I certainly believe in shades of grey, and have always found two sides to any argument. My statement were my own opinion based on wandering around the world for the last 40 years observing people round the globe.

Actually South Ossetia, a region in the South Caucasus was formerly the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast and within the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic. Partly independent from Georgia after declaring independence as Republic of South Ossetia in the 90s with it's capital in Tskhinvali that independence was not diplomatically recognized by United Nations which regards South Ossetia as part of Georgia. Georgia retained control over parts of eastern and southern districts and in 2007 created a Provisional Administrative Entity of South Ossetia headed by ethnic Ossetians under Dmitry Sanakoev which would negotiate with central Georgian authorities regarding final status and conflict resolution.

All three sides can claim to be hard done by, all have suffered at one time or the other.

My view was beyond what is happening in this region. I was simply stating that Russia has newfound strength and wealth, is smarting from its collapse as a world power after it's bankruptcy in the strategic fight in the Regan era, and is determined to come back into center stage.

It has chosen this time and place to demonstrate that intention publicly to the world, and, oil supply and control to Europe is a weapon which it will use. Think of this is a start.
 
Guys their all just your opinions! Worth what we are paying for them. 99% of the folks agree with one side of the issue and don't think a response of any kind will have or make a difference in a belief system without any moral considerations. Now you guys can figure out which is supported for yourselves.

But how about solutions? Talking about who did what for me is a wast of time until we have a time machine. What does it matter today. Can you change it by pointing out bad behavior in the past? As if well he was bad in the past makes any difference regarding what the US does today to help or not!

What would you do President John? Would you let Russia wipe out every man woman and child because they pissed on the bear?

A real solution is valuable, and worth the time to read.
 
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What would you do President John? Would you let Russia wipe out every man woman and child because they pissed on the bear?

Of course not John, but they're not "wiping out every man woman and child" anyway. They are wiping out their military and removing their ability to attack South Ossetia and Abkhazia anytime in the near future. They are also proving their might in the reigion and attempting to intimidate anyone else from pissing them off.
We'll do now, what we should have done a month ago. Put some humanitarian aid and NATO peacekeepers there, right across the border of the Russian "peacekeepers". That would have likely prevented President Saakashvili from invading in the first place... unless... all this was to get the western world behind Georgia, get them into NATO, and put Star Wars defense stuff there.

Starting to sound like Charlie Wilsons War John?
 
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Ok John I though so I'm starting to really understand you much better.
I too see the Charlie Wilson war comparison.
I just have a problem with JUST SOLUTIONS as anything else really does wast time.
Who did what in business is the same so I have a real problem with just complaining about the problem with the same time we can discuss solutions.
I have taught this for over 30 years to BOD's and it just hard wired in me.
You guys can and go back now and discuss who is the bad or good guy.
Thanks for the solution!!!!
 
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The best Star Wars stuff was bluff and caused the Bear to overreach itself financially. Won't happen again. That NATO peace keeper ploy would have been a great idea John, won't help now. And the West was never going to do anything as it has demonstrated so many times before. Look at it's sorry record on the mess that Yugoslavia ended up in. Only when the US stepped in with the Dayton peace accord did it start to end. Actually not much do be done right now except watch and it isn't going to be pretty. Glad I'm not in charge because right out of suggestions on this one.
 
April 06, 2008
SOCHI, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President George W. Bush failed to resolve their differences over U.S. plans for a missile defense system based in eastern Europe but said they had agreed a "strategic framework" to guide future U.S.-Russian relations after bilateral talks Sunday.

U.S. President George W, Bush meets Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi.

1 of 2 Speaking at a joint press conference after their meeting in the Russian Black Sea resort of Sochi, Putin told journalists he had voiced Russian concerns about U.S. plans to establish missile defense sites in Poland and the Czech Republic.

But Putin expressed cautious optimism that the two sides could find a way to cooperate over missile defense and described his eight-year relationship as Russian president with Bush as "mostly positive," The Associated Press reported.

"I will not conceal that one of the most difficult issues was and remains missile defense in Europe," said Putin, who will be replaced by Russia's president-elect Dmitry Medvedev next month. "Our fundamental attitude toward the American plan has not changed."

Bush said the U.S. still had work to do to convince Moscow that the missile defence system was not intended as a threat to Russia, saying the system was "defensive, not offensive" and that people should accept that "the Cold War is over," AP said.

"We've got a lot of way to go," Bush admitted. The U.S. president also met Medvedev, Putin's successor, describing his as a "straightforward fellow." "You can write down, I was impressed and look forward to working with him," he told reporters.

Bush said he expected his first peer-to-peer meeting with Medvedev to come at July's G8 leaders summit in Japan.

In a declaration issued jointly, Putin and Bush said: "The Russian side has made clear that it does not agree with the decision to establish sites in Poland and the Czech Republic and reiterated its proposed alternative. Yet, it appreciates the measures that the U.S. has proposed and declared that if agreed and implemented such measures will be important and useful in assuaging Russian concerns."

In the text of the US-Russia Strategic Framework Declaration, released to AP by the White House following the talks, Russia and the U.S. said they recognized that the era in which each had considered the other to be a "strategic threat or enemy" was over.


"We are dedicated to working together and with other nations to address the global challenges of the 21st century, moving the U.S.-Russia relationship from one of strategic competition to strategic partnership," the declaration said.

"Where we have differences, we will work to resolve them in a spirit of mutual respect... We agree that the foundation for the U.S. and Russian relationship should be based on the core principles of friendship, cooperation, openness, and predictability."


This weekend's summit is the final meeting between Bush and Putin as presidents and follows both leaders' attendance at last week's NATO summit in Romania. That summit also highlighted differences between Washington and Moscow over U.S.-backed proposals to extend the military alliance to include the former Soviet republics of Ukraine and Georgia.

Russia opposes the proposed expansion, fearing it will reduce its own influence over its neighbors. On Thursday, NATO leaders rejected Ukraine and Georgia's case for immediate membership, recognizing Russian objections, but conceded they would be allowed to join the alliance in the future. NATO leaders also approved membership plans for Croatia and Albania
 

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