does anyone practice dead stick landings in their gyros?

most ga instructors would forbid this but in experimental craft its more common. I did an engine idle descent from around 800 ft down to the runway for practice and when I opened the throttle on the ground the engine stumbled and coughed for a few seconds, thats the closest to engine failure I've had in a gyro. does anyone actually shut their engines off for practice? is there less drag with prop not turning?

Everybody practices engine out landings in gyros, I rarely do a power on landing. I've heard people say that there is more drag at idle and some that say less. I say it's about the same. It did seem like I was able to glide further with the engine off but I don't know for sure.

With a 2 stroke, I'm told you don't want to go from full or nearly full throttle to idle quickly. Maybe someone with more experience can verify that. I don't know if that might cause the engine to stumble or not.

If you can do it consistently with the drag of an idling prop that may...or may not produce more drag than a stationary one, then you can do it when you need to.

There would seem to be no need to shut down the engine, though I have seen some videos where people have.

I tend to try and make the majority of landings power off from beginning of the base to touchdown. It is excellent practice

COLD SIEZURE

Ask Ron A. about it.

my 447 has a rich idle, it loads up for a few seconds, i'm probally below the rotax minimum idle speed but thats how it is when you don't have brakes.

Fl90 said:

COLD SIEZURE

Ask Ron A. about it.

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Like Phil says, the problem with pulling the throttle back suddenly is thermal shock. If the engine cools too fast, faster than the pistons, you will damage it. Also, going full power after a long descent at idle isn't recommended either. Pull the throttle back slowly, descend and flare, then push it again slowly to full power. Your engine will last longer that way.

Gil.

Practicing engine outs is A standard practice during lessons. Read up on cold seizures.

Timchick said:

Practicing engine outs is A standard practice during lessons. Read up on cold seizures.

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I've been taking my training with Ron Menzie and yes, engine out/power off landings are taught and practiced. Everyone should continue to practice this even after training, it would sure help the nerves and keep you from panicing when an actual engine out occurs.

If you decide to do engine out practice from 800AGL or higher, and you have an aircooled engine, you need to:

figure out how to operate the engine over the time length to the ground, to cool it slowly.

be prepared for a real engine out.

ask yourself if you really need to wory about loss of power above 200AGL.

ask yourself if looking at airplanes would be better suited to walking the tarmac at an airport.


I,ve often woundered, what is appealing about flying a gyro so high? I know some do it when they are going from point A to point B, but that's just to go somewhere, and not all that much fun. Sometimes I'll get that high for good air, to get somewhere I have to be, but I'm just thinking of getting there on time.

Engine out practice at 200AGL is just as effective, and easier on the equipment.

You should practice, because you will have an actual engine out.
And besides, throw some extra money in your gyro account to buy a new gearbox,
idling below 2000rpm will tear the gears up, no joke.

Any 2 stroke will load up and burble and stumble if the throttle is advanced too quickly with a load on the engine.
It should take you 3-4 seconds to go from idle to full power when the engine is WARM.

Seems like a waste of time to explain anything to Mr. Red.

He already knows too much to get training, as he has bragged all too often.

In his favor though, he is asking questions . . .
albeit after getting close to disaster.

Power at idle landing

Power at idle landing

Most of my landings (MTOsport) are with the engine at idle. I always try to land at the same spot, too. Try being the operative word...
All the best,
Clive

I use to imitate engine outs almost in every flight. From different attitudes, to different places, starting from aborted take-off right after wheels leave airstrip and through 360 degree turn from altitude so to land right below the point where engine out imitation started from.
I almost never stop engine - just taking care of it - doing this only for demonstrations.
In each gyro I use to determine which minimum altitude loss it needs to turn 90, 180, 240 and 360 degrees with engine at idle while keeping airspeed enough for minimum landing roll (spot landing). Making this from different gyro pitch attitude is also good practice since altitude loss from level flight and from good nose up attitude makes big difference.

WillyRose said:

Most of my landings (MTOsport) are with the engine at idle. I always try to land at the same spot, too. All the best,
Clive

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Cold seisure is very real for 2-strokes abruptly cutting power, so "easy does it" is the rule if you want to continue practice. Power is not needed for landing, so EVERY landing should be a power-off landing. Same spot landing makes you proficient in knowing exactly where your bird is going to touch down, which is real handy when the landing is unplanned. Doing all of this in a cross-wind is also good for becoming proficient in rotor management. Circimstances will NOT be ideal when an actual "engine-out" happens. When it happened to me, all I had was a muddy sloped bank underneath me. Fortunately, my proficiency was up, and it was just another landing......albeit, recovering the gyro from the location was a nightmare....lol.

I routinely did engine off landings in both of my previous RAF's. I have done one in my Xenon so I would at least have some idea as to what to expect should the engine quit. My experience has been there is considerably more drag with the engine at idle than with the prop stopped.

HMMM, If I'm flying for say half an hour, my engine is "heat soaked" to say 160 degrees.
Then, I chop the throttle to make a practice "dead stick" landing, remind me how it can "cold sieze" ??? Seems to me that the piston would cool the fastest, thus 'shrinking' some amount. I know my EGT are highly responsive to power settings, so it seems the piston would respond as well. My engine is water cooled, so I think the cylinder dimensions would be more stable.:noidea:

I reduce throttle in the pattern in steps, so as to be kind to the engine. Where and how much depends on the wind and traffic. In light wind and without traffic, I start pulling back power somewhere past mid-runway, then some more when passing the landing end of the runway, and on down to idle either during base or after turning final. Keep watching how your landing "picture" is developing to judge when and how much to power down.

If you are doing an idling approach, it's helpful to clear the engine as you go, by increasing power a time or two for just a moment. You need not go to cruise or more, just enough to help it clear its throat. Maybe 3000-3500 on a Rotax 2-stroke.

It's good practice to switch off on final now and then if the wind conditions are well within your ability -- and if there's no traffic that might force a go-around. An engine-off glide in a gyro is a very pleasant ride, as long as you're not fighting turbulence or wondering if you'll land short. Be sure to have altitude to spare for your early attempts. It's easy to burn off excess alt. in a gyro, but impossible to obtain more if you've shut off your altitude-maker.

Whether the craft glides farther with the engine idling or with it off will depend on the design of the prop and the idle speed. Some are one way and some another. That's one reason to start your first deadstick with more altitude than you think you need.

Many gyro rudders lose a lot of their power when the enigne is shut off. Don't try a cross-wind deadstick until you have explored how well (or badly) yours works with the reduced breeze over it.

Gyros with immersed H-stabs lose control crispness when the power is shut down. The impression can be that your pushrods have been replaced with rubber bands. The H-stab doesn't work so well without a breeze for the same reason that the rudder doesn't work so well without a breeze.

I don't see any danger with water cooled Rotax engines being abruptly pulled back to idle from higher power settings. I have shot thousands of landings where I go from full throttle to idle and never had any water cooled engine give me a problem. My favorite deadstick landing is when I am full throttle, downwind, and near the deck, then execute a 180 landing at idle. I do a lot of ditch running and can't always fly in to the wind. This prepares me for unexpected engine failures. Engines don't just quit in stages and they almost always abruptly quit and being ready for it pays dividends.

A person of your caliber Red,
It's amazing that you need to ask such a question Red..

Red,

You need to go down and fly with Steve he will show you how to do a engine out landing and a few other things you might need to know.

Steve, you are bad