PRA dues & the magazine and your thoughts on them

RE: booths at shows.

Carl Schneider used to man the PRA booth at one of the big shows (OSH?). I was surprised to find that Carl did it 100% on his own. Not sure he even got a thank you. It was very expensive for a one-man show -- I think the space cost him $1200.

cheers

-=K=-

A couple months ago I had a conversation with the EAA rotorcraft person. He really would like us to be at Oskosh every year. I believe they stick the gyros in the ultralight area so if anyone did any flying it would be off a grass strip. I know some of the 2-place guys don't like flying off grass strips but surely we could find some of our members who could participate.
 
I really like that Idea Paul!!! That would be fun too.
We pop in, hand out a bunch of fliers inviting them to Mentone and inviting them to join PRA and a swarm of rotors exit stage left into the sunset!

Its exactly this kind of coordinated guerrilla marketing and big splashy presence that we need. I remind you - the freaking Hells Angles are more coordinated and have more name recognition than we do.... and no it wasnt their notorious stuff that built it... Sturgess, Rolling Thunder, all sorts of presence just by showing up!

Parking our machines where GA people congregate and handing out info and doing community work and getting news coverage are all FREE ways to promote awareness.

BTW except for myself.... where are the usual loud mouths and trouble makers in this discussion....? The answer and reasons are all too obvious.
 
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A couple months ago I had a conversation with the EAA rotorcraft person. He really would like us to be at Oskosh every year...

EAA has a rotorcraft person? Do they let him use the bathrooms inside?

If they really want gyros there, perhaps they'd waive the admission charge for pilots arriving in gyroplanes?
 
RE: booths at shows.

Carl Schneider used to man the PRA booth at one of the big shows (OSH?). I was surprised to find that Carl did it 100% on his own. Not sure he even got a thank you. It was very expensive for a one-man show -- I think the space cost him $1200.

cheers

-=K=-

Kevin,
The EAA used to give us a free space to promote our organization, they even put up a tent for us to store the rotorcraft in every night.

I believe the kind people at HKS engines allowed Carl to park his gyro at their display and leave brochures and back issues around it. I don't think it ever got to be much more than this. Carl flew quite often and was usually our only spokesman.

Years ago we were approached by the EAA to become a division, they even had a rotorcraft version of their famous logo (no kidding) Ken Brock was very tight with Paul Pobrezney (sp?) PRA BoD member Bob Fitzpatrick was the rotorcraft chair, I was the co-chair. At the general membership meeting, Ken presented the offer. It was summarily voted down by the membership. The EAA even offered to host our convention the week before or after theirs.

TIMCHICK:

I spoke to the current rotorcraft chairman last year and in 2007, he is someone I have known for many years and a former gyro owner. I asked him how WE could get more gyros up to Oshkosh, his reply was something like: I'd rather they not come here. They are a bunch of whiners and crybabies.

All that said, there is probably no place in the world that would give gyros greater exposure than Oshkosh.
 
I was surprised at the lack of Gyrplanes at last years Oshkosh. The only stand was SARAF and there was always a crowd around the gyro. If there was a PRA stand there and gyroplane static display and demo flights there I think there would be a lot more interest and potential members.

You just cant ignore the potential that Oshkosh has, its almost "down the road" from Mentone, the dates are close. And the exposure got at OSH for whatever outlay would be worth it.

The Mentone meeting is really preaching to the converted, we neeed to get out there to Oshkosh, change the perception that GA pilots have of Gyroplanes with a professionally run display in Oshkosh.
 
Hi Paddy,
A PRA display at Oshkosh would never be cost effective. Using Ron A's numbers for membership dollars, we'd have to sell 125 NEW memberships just to cover the rent for the square of grass.

Our best salesperson would be a bunch of gyros, flying safely, having fun and handing out PRA brochures (but I'd still love to see a professional PRA booth there)
 
Hi Tom
Anything other than what happened there last year would be a bonus. With the amount of people there it would be nuts not to have some kind of presence.

Im over in OSH next year for the week and would happily volunteer to help for that week.
Paddy

Paddy
 
You guys are really taking this thread off topic.

There are a zillion ways we could get more members, but that is not the main focus of this thread. Oshkosh has been discussed many years in a row and bottom line is as good as it would be for increasing membership, none of us care enough to sacrifice our vacation to Oshkosh instead of Mentone where we run the show and can fly as much as we want etc....

I want this thread to discuss mainly the cost of the dues, the current state of affairs with the PRA and should the magazine be turned into a online only publication to try to save money so we could fund a booth at Oshkosh etc....
 
You guys are really taking this thread off topic.

There are a zillion ways we could get more members, but that is not the main focus of this thread. Oshkosh has been discussed many years in a row and bottom line is as good as it would be for increasing membership, none of us care enough to sacrifice our vacation to Oshkosh instead of Mentone where we run the show and can fly as much as we want etc....

I want this thread to discuss mainly the cost of the dues, the current state of affairs with the PRA and should the magazine be turned into a online only publication to try to save money so we could fund a booth at Oshkosh etc....

Ron

I don't think that most of us have a problem with the cost of the dues. Do you? and as far as the magazine goes it wouldn't be a problem either if we can ge more advertising in it then the amount of or cost to the PRA will be a non item also. We will have problem selling ads in an electric magazine. Just some of my thoughts.
 
I don't think that most of us have a problem with the cost of the dues. Do you? and as far as the magazine goes it wouldn't be a problem either if we can ge more advertising in it then the amount of or cost to the PRA will be a non item also. We will have problem selling ads in an electric magazine. Just some of my thoughts.

Thom,

Apparently enough people have a problem with the dues that the membership has dropped to the level it has.

A few years back I went through the latest Rotorcraft issue that had the names of all of the PRA members listed by state. In the Louisiana section I only recognized about 1/3 of the names as people who were active. The othere two thirds had not been to any of the Chapter 20 fly-ins, and as far as I knew didn't own a gyro or even a project. I even wrote letters to each of them to inform them of our chapter website and ask them to join and attend our next fly-in, but got very little response except for the hard-core members. I refer to these folks as sideliners, and I don't mean it in a bad way. Maybe they were thinking about getting into it at some point, or maybe they just wanted to read about it.

I suspect that for these people, their membership was just a magazine subscription. That was the perceived value for their dues. A nice glossy magazine with good articles and lots of cool pictures. And I would expect the ratio of 'active to non-active' members to be similar to other states. Let the magazine quality suffer while the dues are increased and these people are going to vote with their wallets.

I think it was Doug Riley who posted that we may have to live with a smaller hard-core group for a while. If the PRA doesn't offer more 'perceived value' we may never get the non-active members back.
 
If the dues and magazine are such an issue then maybe the dues should be (for example) $35 for membership plus online only magazine and $65 for membership and hard copied magazine. I would be willing to pay a little more to keep the magazine. The life members could still keep their life membership and just pay an extra $15 for the magazine, looks like a lot of them wouldn't have a problem with that, Dean has stated that he still pays the $50 a year even though he's not required to.
 
...Apparently enough people have a problem with the dues that the membership has dropped to the level it has...

Mike, I don't think anyone who flies finds the dues insurmountable, but many may be frustrated with the perceived lack of value. AOPA and EAA both cost less, and offer far more to members. Some object to this line of reasoning, saying they can offer value because they're bigger. It's just as valid to suppose they're big because they offer more value to members.

Thanks for bringing up the non-fliers, because there's an important point to be made. I've noticed that in most chapters, including some stable and successful ones, a majority of the paying members are not currently flying gyroplanes. There are varying reasons...gave it up due to limited retirement income or diminished health, got the bug and never could afford to build, spouse who's not on board, etc.

Some of these folks will never be more than the "keyboard fliers" dismissed here as unworthy of attention, but your observation that they would be the first to drop out under high dues and reduced magazine quality is a valid hypothesis.

What if PRA's current membership represents a vast majority of all the flying gyro pilots out there, and the only way to growth is to get back the "keyboard fliers" (or "folding chair fliers" or "BBQ fliers" who show up at your chapter meeting)?
 
Ron,

I'm willing to pay the $50 whether I get a magazine or not. But, I suspect, a lot of people out there won't fork over the money without a paper magazine.

I'm also all for the online magazine, for a number of reasons. One, it saves ink and paper, and reduces the landfill load. Two, it costs less for the PRA to produce. Three, it's available to all of us on the same day, regardless of where we live. Four, you can have all the color you want, at no additional expense to the PRA.

Trying to keep the paper magazine, by having people who want it to pay more, probably will not work. You now have even less people paying for the paper, and whether you print 100 copies, or 10 thousand copies, there are a certain amount of fixed costs you can't get rid of, just to establish the print job.

As far as the value of the PRA, it's kind like paying school taxes. No one wants to pay them, especially once their children are grown. But educating our children hopefully keeps them productive in their adult years, not on welfare. That's what you have to understand about paying school taxes.

In the PRA's case, it's because so few members attend Mentone, that they don't see the value of the PRA. The other thing they don't seem to realize is that the PRA is the only organization even slightly interested in promoting rotorcraft, particularly gyros. If that goes away, you can't imagine how desolate things will seem regarding rotorcraft.

If you can't make people see the value of their school taxes, how do you propose to make them see the value of the PRA?

I also know a number of pilots who were PRA members until they actually obtained their licenses, then stopped paying their dues. Personally, I believe they're pretty short-sighted. But, my guess is they're not a small minority compared to the current paying membership.

As I've stated before, I will continue to pay my dues because it's paying my benefit from the PRA forward to future gyro pilots. I'm grateful that they got the BFI program instituted for us, bought Mentone, and do what they can to run interference for us with the FAA. I also know, and have had dealings with, a good number of the board. I respect each and every one of them for their efforts to support us. They all could easily quit the board, have less headaches, and more personal time for flying those machines we all say we love. Those who don't feel the PRA is a good value/benefit to them just don't know what they would be missing if the PRA folded.

I also agree with Doug Riley, we just have to get used to having a minimum membership of what appears to be hard core gyronauts for a while. With the economy the way it is now, anyone who has to decide whether to spend money on flying a gyro, or eating, or paying the mortgage, isn't going to fork over that $50 to support the PRA. Reduce it to $35, and you still won't see a significant membership increase, in my estimation.

Just my two cents worth. Take it for what it is.
 
What if PRA's current membership represents a vast majority of all the flying gyro pilots out there, and the only way to growth is to get back the "keyboard fliers" (or "folding chair fliers" or "BBQ fliers" who show up at your chapter meeting)?

That's what I was trying to say, only not as well as you. :)
 
I believe the PRA is down to 1300 members...

Make that 1300 and 1 with me being the 1 (application being processed by Jennifer).


What do you guys think?

I joined because I am seriously considering building and becoming a licensed Sport pilot.

The $50 membership fee is only one less double cheese burger, fries and Root Beer a month. It’s worth it to me for the magazine (help me learn the sport by others mistakes/advice).

Magazine: printed or online? I’m a bit old fashion and prefer printed but if it is to the membership’s benefit to eliminate the printed magazine I’ll continue as a member.
 
Welcome Matthew!!!

Lots of fellow rotorcraft pilots in IN and OH!
 
I see Ron's point

I see Ron's point

about the bulk of the membership dues currently covering the cost of publishing the magazine, but have to disagree that this is the real issue. The real issue is that we need to generate more revenue to cover the cost of the magazine, so the majority of the $ from the dues can be spent in other areas.

As far as $50.00 being too high for dues; I have to disagree. The dues only come out to $4.17 a month. You can't even buy a decent combo meal at a fast food joint for that. Sorry Ron, it is chump change when compared to most of our living expenses. Those that fly have to foot a lot of expenses to keep flying that are much more than chump change, but the dues do not fall into the same category as maintenance, hanger fees, fuel, oil ect.

I find it hard to believe that there are many former PRA members that left because the dues were too high.
 
For those that complain about the cost.........

I wonder if the PRA would give you a free one year membership for every five new members you recruit if you would work at recruiting or just find something else to complain about.
 
If every member could sell (or buy and give) lets say 5 more issues to potencial new members, that would create a wave. The mags would cost less to print, a message targeting the new guys would be there every issue.
Just have to estimate the cost and try the idea one time.
The sinergy, I think, would be juicing up the general public towards an approach to see what is going on. Some will remain, some will depart but I think the numbers could increase and so the exposure.
LIke a virus! :)
Heron (contaminating people with the gyrobug) Hey!! another idea, lets create the gyrobug doll, those with that twinkle in the eyes would be entitled to buy one.
 
I'm not a member of the PRA.........well, not yet.

But here's a few ideas I'll throw out there, then I'll let you chew me up.:lol:

First, has anyone looked into finding a cheaper publishing source? It doesn't have to be a super glossy magazine. At least until the wounds are healed and the PRA is standing more firm.

Second, would a monthly due be a little less burden for some to pay. In my monthly budget, a 50 dollar hit isn't so easy to pass by the financial director(the wife in my circumstance).

Say a 5 dollar or even 10 dollar a month due would be an easier pill to swallow. Plus it would actually increase the PRA per person income to either 60 or 120 dollars a year. Of course it could be paid upfront if one wanted to.

I for one would have no problem shelling out 10 dollars a month. I could add that to my budget without a problem. And it could be set up as an automatic monthly deduction from your credit card or bank if needed.


Just a thought,
Jody
 
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