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Fritz
I hope to make another comment about you right away. It is my opinion that you have always been a capitalist free-enterpriser at heart. Some things may not have worked out for you , you have even paid a high price for it.

Many people have done the same thing and have reaped a high reward for their efforts. This is unfair in my opinion. You have paid the price and made restitution , but please do not blame the capitalist system. I think you are more honest that some of the capitalists out there. Maybe that is why you got stung.

That is my accessment anyway , Renee. I hope I am correct. Best wishes. Arnie.
 
Fritz
I hope to make another comment about you right away. It is my opinion that you have always been a capitalist free-enterpriser at heart. Some things may not have worked out for you , you have even paid a high price for it.

Many people have done the same thing and have reaped a high reward for their efforts. This is unfair in my opinion. You have paid the price and made restitution , but please do not blame the capitalist system. I think you are more honest that some of the capitalists out there. Maybe that is why you got stung.

That is my accessment anyway , Renee. I hope I am correct. Best wishes. Arnie.

I think you are confused my name Fritz Hess, living in Bedford Indiana and working as a mechanical Engineer in NY. Not a capitalist but Liberal at heart.
 
I think you are confused my name Fritz Hess, living in Bedford Indiana and working as a mechanical Engineer in NY. Not a capitalist but Liberal at heart.
And you are also Raton from Australia.

I apologize for thinking you were a capitalist at heart.

Your last name is Holz

At least it was at one time

Best regards

I still think you have a lot to contribute.

Especially regarding Subaru's. We need all the expertise that is available. Our lives sometimes depend on it. Guy's like you are rare and hard to find. Lighten up on the anger and help us fly safe. It would be much appreciated by all. There are very few Subaru experts in the world. Thanks for coming to this forum.

Arnie.
 
I think you are confused my name Fritz Hess, living in Bedford Indiana and working as a mechanical Engineer in NY. Not a capitalist but Liberal at heart.



That is quite a commute Fritz.

Where did you get your engineering degree?

Thank you, Vance
 
In order to become knowledgeable about a subject you must conduct research. In doing so you gain insight from those who have also conducted research. In many ways my research is a compilation of other research. The message is the same, whereby you fail to differentiate between communisms and socialisms and will use any (America who do not want to insure themselves for religious reasons.) excuse including shooting the messenger to justify decadent capitalists destroying our country and way of life.

You shot yourself Fritz. You can't research anything by looking at blogs for opinions. Opinions are like fundaments, Fritz, everyone's got one.

Look at history. Look at current events. Socialism nor communism works. And I damn well know the difference between them, and their similarity, common roots and purposes.

Your job is provided by capital. If you bought your home with a loan, you are a capitalist; your car, etc. Every time you use a credit card you are capitalizing. Purchasing a lotto ticket,

The difference between you and a corporate CEO earning 10 Million Dollars a year is that you are capitalizing yourself while he is capitalizing the World around him. He provides jobs and incentive; you provide nothing. His 10 Million Dollars goes out and pays the wages of craftsmen, engineers and architects, fishing guides, prostitutes, whatever; while yours is pathetic and accomplishes nothing but putting more CO into the air around you. So what if he has a million dollar yacht, he can't eat it, and he certainly isn't going to take it with him; but dozens of tradesmen have work because of it.

The desire to succeed is the engine that drives man; take it away, throw water on it, and you have nothing.

I'll go you one further Fritz; socialism is capitalism by theft, because it capitalizes you or your aunt Mabel at someone else's expense and against his will. Socialism is the epitome of greed, far more cruel and hideous than a Corporate CEO could ever behave; and that is because it is stealing, something the corporate CEO cannot do without great penalty.
 
You shot yourself Fritz. You can't research anything by looking at blogs for opinions. Opinions are like fundaments, Fritz, everyone's got one.

Look at history. Look at current events. Socialism nor communism works. And I damn well know the difference between them, and their similarity, common roots and purposes.

Your job is provided by capital. If you bought your home with a loan, you are a capitalist; your car, etc. Every time you use a credit card you are capitalizing. Purchasing a lotto ticket,

The difference between you and a corporate CEO earning 10 Million Dollars a year is that you are capitalizing yourself while he is capitalizing the World around him. He provides jobs and incentive; you provide nothing. His 10 Million Dollars goes out and pays the wages of craftsmen, engineers and architects, fishing guides, prostitutes, whatever; while yours is pathetic and accomplishes nothing but putting more CO into the air around you. So what if he has a million dollar yacht, he can't eat it, and he certainly isn't going to take it with him; but dozens of tradesmen have work because of it.

The desire to succeed is the engine that drives man; take it away, throw water on it, and you have nothing.

I'll go you one further Fritz; socialism is capitalism by theft, because it capitalizes you or your aunt Mabel at someone else's expense and against his will. Socialism is the epitome of greed, far more cruel and hideous than a Corporate CEO could ever behave; and that is because it is stealing, something the corporate CEO cannot do without great penalty.

Socialism means many different thing to different people, Socialism is not against private property either, but this is not about to convince anyone, there will be always die hard neocons and fascist jerks believing money and capitalist are the way to go. It won’t be long and we will have truly American style socialisms, you will love it too..!
 
See? I told you so . . .
You have to like something, understand?
Does not matter if you know it or not, you just like it and that is enough.
Remember . . .they played this game way back there calling MOssadeg a communist, just label something and open fire . . .
And if you do not love one system, you can´t be in it . . .you are the enemy . . .
Oh the burdens of living in more than one world . . .!!!
How dare you speak of grey when we know there is only black and white?
You can´t analyse anything american, you just take it as it is and smile . . .what? You say it is not the best in the world?
You are a sore looser Sir . . .a troublemaker . . .you must have something wrong about you . . .you are not anointed . . .and your momma have a butt so big it needs its own zip code . . .
Or something like that . . .
Heron
Burrinhos galore . . .go read some . . .
 
Heron, Wow. Nothing negative, I just need to meet you next time you are back in the states. I can never predict what you will say..or how you will say it. :)
 
Lanichol
It will be my pleasure for sure!
But my alterego does not work this way in person, I think we will enjoy some laughs and more serious talks.
I miss been there, it is a great place to be and learn.
When I was in high school I understood that if we go quiet we don't learn as much, since then I always played the fool and asked again and again so those more on the shy side could have a better chance.
It worked! Most of my classmates went all the way to the top of their carriers.
Bait and switch kind of thing if I may . . .
thanks
Heron
 
Belief systems

Belief systems

Socialism means many different thing to different people, Socialism is not against private property either, but this is not about to convince anyone, there will be always die hard neocons and fascist jerks believing money and capitalist are the way to go. It won’t be long and we will have truly American style socialisms, you will love it too..!

Fritz,

Socialism is a belief system which attempts to redistribute wealth for the common good. It is a belief in things unseen, a religion with its own invisible god. Socialism IS against private property, or it isn't socialism. Socialism seeks to take my private property and give it to someone else in the name of its god.

Yes, we now have social security and medicare, and yes it is nice to have after having it stolen from our employer's and our own pocketbooks for so long; but both completely fail their intended purposes as social security is on the brink of failure and costs every working man and woman 15% of his or her productivity, and that keeps going up. It must now jump even higher as our society ages.

Medicare is now at 5% of our GDP and the Congressional Budget Office is telling Congress that it is going to be as high as 20% of our GDP in the near future as our society ages. While all this is going on, our work force is growing smaller and is currently under 50% of the adult population.

On top of all this, every nation that has gone down the socialist's path to nationalized health care is not fairing well. Wages are low, taxes are high, unemployment is high, welfare is high, and their nations owe two to three times as much to second World nations because of it, with no way to repay the debt.

America has not gone down that path, and is the wealthiest, most giving nation in the World.

Right now, 80% of health care in America is spent on the elderly in their last year of life. That means that those not in that place in their life only account for about 3% of the GDP spent on health care in America. Nationalized health care cannot fix this without depriving the elderly of what they worked for and deserve.

Health care is a service industry which does not send money off shore unless a producer is taxed or regulated too much and moves off shore.

As for this comment:
we will have truly American style socialisms, you will love it too..!

This is what the Symbionese Liberation Army said to Patty before they raped her. They hated capital as well. It's what many rapists think and say to their victims before stealing their property.

It's time to capitalize Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid too, into investment accounts instead of non-earning accounts which make losers of everyone. Imagine boosting the economy with that twenty percent of our productivity the government sits on and does not return with interest.
 
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Fritz,

Socialism is a belief system which attempts to redistribute wealth for the common good. It is a belief in things unseen, a religion with its own invisible god. Socialism IS against private property, or it isn't socialism. Socialism seeks to take my private property and give it to someone else in the name of its god.

Yes, we now have social security and medicare, and yes it is nice to have after having it stolen from our employer's and our own pocketbooks for so long; but both completely fail their intended purposes as social security is on the brink of failure and costs every working man and woman 15% of his or her productivity, and that keeps going up. It must now jump even higher as our society ages.

Medicare is now at 5% of our GDP and the Congressional Budget Office is telling Congress that it is going to be as high as 20% of our GDP in the near future as our society ages. While all this is going on, our work force is growing smaller and is currently under 50% of the adult population.

On top of all this, every nation that has gone down the socialist's path to nationalized health care is not fairing well. Wages are low, taxes are high, unemployment is high, welfare is high, and their nations owe two to three times as much to second World nations because of it, with no way to repay the debt.

America has not gone down that path, and is the wealthiest, most giving nation in the World.

Right now, 80% of health care in America is spent on the elderly in their last year of life. That means that those not in that place in their life only account for about 3% of the GDP spent on health care in America. Nationalized health care cannot fix this without depriving the elderly of what they worked for and deserve.

Health care is a service industry which does not send money off shore unless a producer is taxed or regulated too much and moves off shore.

As for this comment:

This is what the Symbionese Liberation Army said to Patty before they raped her. They hated capital as well. It's what many rapists think and say to their victims before stealing their property.

It's time to capitalize Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid too, into investment accounts instead of non-earning accounts which make losers of everyone. Imagine boosting the economy with that twenty percent of our productivity the government sits on and does not return with interest.




The only ideology capitalisms’ support is one of profit, the Enron and WorldCom and many other scandal is not a crisis in capitalism, it is a crisis in corporate management--a crisis in the culture of capitalist business morality, in other words, steal big and the world will love you, steal small and you are hated by everyone. So if stealing is acceptable leads one to believe that the crack dealer on the corner is no more than a smaller version of the CEOs of Enron or WorldCom, in a perversely sense, this conclusion is true. For both CEO and crack dealer are raping the American public. But what both CEO and crack dealer fail to understand is that corporate thievery (stealing big) is beginning to be despised by the America public as much as that of the actions of the corner crack dealer. At the present our government is the biggest thief, taxing us and future generations for the misdeeds and thieving capitalists. Your statement “Socialism IS against private property, or it isn't socialism. Socialism seeks to take my private property and give it to someone else in the name of its god.” This is totally misguided, China, for example, is a socialist’s example whereby capitalisms’ and socialisms go hand in hand, every one owns his department (albeit the land is owned by the people, after death it gets passed or sold to someone else, unless one has relatives ,another cycle of 70 years of ownership gets granted) and one can see more BMW,MB and Audi on the roads then we will ever see in our own country. In the last 3 months, GM in China sold over a million automobiles, while we have cash for clunkers, socialisms at his best. Capitalism is individual power, and if you look at the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8: The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, taxes on things, including property. Communisms?
 
The only ideology capitalisms’ support is one of profit, the Enron and WorldCom and many other scandal is not a crisis in capitalism, it is a crisis in corporate management--a crisis in the culture of capitalist business morality, in other words, steal big and the world will love you, steal small and you are hated by everyone. So if stealing is acceptable leads one to believe that the crack dealer on the corner is no more than a smaller version of the CEOs of Enron or WorldCom, in a perversely sense, this conclusion is true. For both CEO and crack dealer are raping the American public. But what both CEO and crack dealer fail to understand is that corporate thievery (stealing big) is beginning to be despised by the America public as much as that of the actions of the corner crack dealer. At the present our government is the biggest thief, taxing us and future generations for the misdeeds and thieving capitalists.

"One of profit"?; life is about profit. Without profit, it is not life. But how one profits is what damns him or blesses him. Crime is everywhere Fritz, not just Enron or WorldCom, and we have laws to deal with it as evidenced by recent history. Socialist programs do not stop crime, they are a crime against humanity in and of themselves. They make a criminal of everyone as a nation of losers begin to embrace entitlement and those who were accustomed to working hard for their wealth begin to give up. Socialist programs have CEOs, and many of them are corrupt, just as many politicians are corrupt. Everyone is corrupt to some degree or another. Socialism does not fix that, it exacerbates it.

The reason our government is taxing us and giving the money to big business is that some well meaning socialist Democrats blocked Republican attempts at regulating the mortgage industry. From this, a whole corrupt subprime industry grew up on the benefits of George Bush's Reagonomics because people had money for the first time in a long time, and subprime markets blossomed on this blessing as the Feds forced conservative banks to make junk mortgages. It was all corrupt socialist ideology which drove this failure.

Your statement “Socialism IS against private property, or it isn't socialism. Socialism seeks to take my private property and give it to someone else in the name of its god.” This is totally misguided, China, for example, is a socialist’s example whereby capitalisms’ and socialisms go hand in hand, every one owns his department (albeit the land is owned by the people, after death it gets passed or sold to someone else, unless one has relatives ,another cycle of 70 years of ownership gets granted) and one can see more BMW,MB and Audi on the roads then we will ever see in our own country. In the last 3 months, GM in China sold over a million automobiles, while we have cash for clunkers, socialisms at his best.

When you take my private property in any form or quantity and redistribute it to someone else, you are against private property as you've just stolen it from me.

If you like China, go live in China Fritz

Capitalism is individual power, and if you look at the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8: The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, taxes on things, including property. Communisms?

And I own Congress Fritz, and it damn well better consider carefully what it is doing. Once it has made such a law Fritz, I will obey it as a slave does his master until I suspect that my fellow man is ready to clean the slate.

Let the World be like the US, not the other way around.
 
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Fritz do stop writing in BOLD we aren't blind nor deaf !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
America has not gone down that path, and is the wealthiest, most giving nation in the World.

Where did the wealth come from? Did America used guns to achieve it? Than it is another thing alltogether . . .
Natives are socialists, that is the corner stone of civilization, to be in groups for the common good.
People with greater firepower take over and change the system at will, when it fails, blame someone else.
In all my experience USA is the best socialist nation in the planet. It works very well and you guys are unbeatable when looking at "civilized" world.
Indians in the other hand, beat every other group when wilderness is involved. I can tell you many stories but of course your will have a ready to fire response to every single one of them . . .I call that indoctrination, mind set, etc.
One of the most prominent person in the tribe is the hunter, the last one to eat. First in laws, then parents, then women and children, than self.
it is about time the debaters understand the point and end the discussion with more knowledge, or this will go on forever with the did did not attitude (place the Ts)
Heron
 
Hello Heron,

To begin with in my opinion, wealth it is not a zero sum game.

I don’t have to take something from someone else to have it.

It is possible that through my efforts I can create value and a mutually beneficial exchange takes place with some other person who creates value.

I have a certain experience with tribal structure. I don’t know any members of the Narragansett tribe that would consider themselves socialists. On a larger scale I don’t know any members of the Algonquin nation that would consider themselves socialists.

The Algonquin would try to find out what the members could do and put them to doing it. They would encourage growth and not reward sloth. There was no effort to give everyone the same amount of stuff.

In my opinion your socialist dogma would not last long in any evolved tribal environment that I am familiar with.

Taking care of all members of society is not socialism as defined in any dictionary I can find. Words have meaning. The Encarta dictionary defines socialism as “a political theory in which means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles.” There is more than one way for a society to take care of the weak.

Please think and learn before you malign the native people with your fantasy.

Thank you, Vance
 
Natives?

Natives?

America has not gone down that path, and is the wealthiest, most giving nation in the World.

Where did the wealth come from? Did America used guns to achieve it? Than it is another thing alltogether . . .
Natives are socialists, that is the corner stone of civilization, to be in groups for the common good.
People with greater firepower take over and change the system at will, when it fails, blame someone else.
In all my experience USA is the best socialist nation in the planet. It works very well and you guys are unbeatable when looking at "civilized" world.
Indians in the other hand, beat every other group when wilderness is involved. I can tell you many stories but of course your will have a ready to fire response to every single one of them . . .I call that indoctrination, mind set, etc.
One of the most prominent person in the tribe is the hunter, the last one to eat. First in laws, then parents, then women and children, than self.
it is about time the debaters understand the point and end the discussion with more knowledge, or this will go on forever with the did did not attitude (place the Ts)
Heron

Garca,

Natives were not and are not socialists, they endeavor/ed socially, but they did not blanket the tribe with the law of what is yours is mine. Social cooperation is everywhere, but it ceases to be cooperation when it is made law. It becomes dictate. Socialists practice socialism by dictate, taking the wealth of one man and handing it to another for the sole purpose of forcing equality when it does not exist in nature. This ends the rule of the heart and the traditions of the family or tribe by replacing it with the rule of the state.

America's social efforts have been limited to programs that take care of the infirm and the elderly, the already unproductive if they have not the means to do it themselves. Though this is socialism, it is not based upon some across society idealism, a vast majority of people despise having these funds taken from them all their lives, and most are too stupid to know that the employer share of this is directly attacking their wages when the money could be held in enumeration in personal investment accounts instead of in government coffers thwarting productivity. This then creates an angry atmosphere of entitlement which says; they took it from me, now I'm going for all I can get; I paid into it all my life, so let 'er rip. Entitlement defeats productivity.

I have friends here in America, forty and fifty year old friends who upon aging begin to feel some body pain from the fat rolls, poor muscle tone, and low blood flow from their sedentary lifestyles, then begin to claim fibromyalgia and a myriad of other generally unproven syndromes, start having headaches and begin chasing social security and medicare, unemployment benefits, and any other form of subsistence there is to offer, including welfare and section 8 housing when they are no longer employable. There are thousands of these people in my community, each costing me more than a reasonable wage, who then come back and vote for more of the same as they drive around in new cars. They respond, when challenged, with; I paid into it, and I am entitled to it. These people not only take in as much income from it as I do, they have a cadre of social workers taking from it, and Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars consumed in medical procedures and tests which show nothing but syndromes, no causes other than they have given up on the contest of life in exchange for the comfort, closing of the eyes and folding of the hands. There are a million or more of these dodos on the public dole today. There are literally teams of them who go out and find others willing to take lessons from them on how to cheat the "god damned" gubmnt.

Now, big international conglomerates, not liking that we are not like their consumers in other nations, seeing that we stick out like a sore thumb because of our wealth and freedom, unable to create their one world marketplace in the subjugation of the mind of man because of us, not wanting to deal with the costs we place upon them here, want to force the religion of socialism upon us across the board, not as a stop gap measure, but as their universal church.

So, Heron, go join a tribe in the jungle of Brazil, and live out your fantasy which is not socialism at all. Willing social endeavor is not socialism.

For me, I'll take the contest of life, pain and all, even the dying; knowing that I lived it, taking nothing by force from another to justify my existence or the existence of another.

Of the G-20, all owe two to three times more to second world nations than America. In their national pride, all went down the entitlement path to nationalized medicine; and every example of their nationalized medicine has become an embarrassment to them; leaving them weakened with high unemployment, low productivity, low personal wealth, and far more debt.
 
Again you are talking about the bad things in socialism.
And the indians down here divide all, work, dance, food, thoughts, this is socialism.
It is the theory, not the Iron Courtain we are talking about.
It does work, and has problems as much as capitalism.
maybe I should get a poem for you.
Vance, I think the Indians are better than us, where is the malign here?
I wish I was like them . . .
America is not giving anything but giving back!
BRB
Heron
Here, calm yourselves down

Let me take you down ´Cause I´m going to

Strawberry Fields Nothing is real

And nothing to get hung about

Strawberry Fields forever



Living is easy with eyes closed Misunderstanding all you see

It´s getting hard to be someone But it all works out

It doesn't matter much to me



Let me take you down´Cause I´m going to

Strawberry Fields

Nothing is real And nothing to get hung about

Strawberry Fields forever



No one I think is in my tree I mean it must be high or low

That i you can't you know tune inBut it's all right

That is I think it's not too bad



Let me take you down ´Cause I´m going to

Strawberry Fields Nothing is real

And nothing to get hung about

Strawberry Fields forever



Always know sometimes think it's me

But you know I know when it's a dream

I think a no will mean a yes

But it's all so wrong That is I think I disagree



Let me take you down ´Cause I´m going to

Strawberry Fields Nothing is real

And nothing to get hung about
 
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The social organization of Indians

Among the Indians there are no classes as the white man. All have the same rights and receive the same treatment.
The land, for example, belongs to everyone and when an Indian hunting, usually share with the people of his tribe. Only the working tools (axes, bows, arrows, harpoons) are individually owned.
The work in the tribe is held by everyone, but has a division by sex and age. Women are responsible for food, children, harvesting and planting. Already the men of the tribe are in charge of heavy work: hunting, fishing, war and felled trees.

Two important figures in the organization of the tribes are the shaman and chief.
The shaman is a priest of the tribe, for he knows all the rituals and receives messages from the gods. He is also the healer, for he knows all the teas and herbs to cure diseases. He makes the ritual of shamanism, which evokes the forest gods and ancestors for help in healing.
The chief, also important in tribal life, makes the role of chief, organizes and directs for the Indians.

The Indian education is quite interesting. Younger Indians, known as urchins, learning from small and practical way. Often observe what adults do and will train early. When the father goes hunting, usually take the urchin together to learn this. So indigenous education practices and is well linked to the reality of life of Indian tribe. When it reaches the 13 to 14 years, the child goes through a test and a ceremony to enter adulthood.
translation by Google.
Does that sounds like socialism to you? It does to me.
Heron
 
The social organization of Indians

Among the Indians there are no classes as the white man. All have the same rights and receive the same treatment.
The land, for example, belongs to everyone and when an Indian hunting, usually share with the people of his tribe. Only the working tools (axes, bows, arrows, harpoons) are individually owned.
The work in the tribe is held by everyone, but has a division by sex and age. Women are responsible for food, children, harvesting and planting. Already the men of the tribe are in charge of heavy work: hunting, fishing, war and felled trees.

Two important figures in the organization of the tribes are the shaman and chief.
The shaman is a priest of the tribe, for he knows all the rituals and receives messages from the gods. He is also the healer, for he knows all the teas and herbs to cure diseases. He makes the ritual of shamanism, which evokes the forest gods and ancestors for help in healing.
The chief, also important in tribal life, makes the role of chief, organizes and directs for the Indians.

The Indian education is quite interesting. Younger Indians, known as urchins, learning from small and practical way. Often observe what adults do and will train early. When the father goes hunting, usually take the urchin together to learn this. So indigenous education practices and is well linked to the reality of life of Indian tribe. When it reaches the 13 to 14 years, the child goes through a test and a ceremony to enter adulthood.
translation by Google.
Does that sounds like socialism to you? It does to me.
Heron

It sounds like some particularly ignorant chauvinistic person’s fantasy about “Indians” or perhaps a native person taking advantage of the ignorant racism of their readers to make some point that is lost to history.

To begin with Columbus was lost. Indians live in India.

The description is too general to sound anything like socialism or any political philosophy for that matter.

If by chance they are trying to describe the native people of what is now called North America their ignorant diatribe reveals their racism.

There were many nations across the continent and they had many different cultures. To try to lump them all together in that simplistic tripe is typical of a particularly confused someone trying to keep it simple to make a point.

When the Pilgrims were trying out Socialism and half of their people died in the first year the Narragansett leaders figured that the Pilgrims were so stupid there was no reason to kill them to stop the neighborhood blight. Unfortunately there were more white Europeans to take their place and the new ones learned that socialism didn’t work.

The Narragansett culture was sufficiently complex that they worked against assimilation and have tried to preserve the knowledge of it to this day.

There were many other great tribes and great nations across this continent that are nothing like that simplistic xenophobic garbage. The indigenous people were not all hunter gatherers and all of them had more than two tribal positions.

Some of the native people of what is now South America had some remarkably complex cultures.

Heron, you are often admonishing others to learn about history and truth. In my opinion this is a perfect example of your make it up approach to history and your egocentric bigotry. Please keep your racism to yourself and take your own advice about learning about history and truth.

Thank you, Vance
 
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