Join Pra Or Not? Free Forum Or Not?

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Charlie had an interestiong approach. Our instructors are in position to influence people and it would help PRA membership if they all did something similar. Even if all they did was ask a student if they were a PRA member and then if they weren't ask why not. At that point a pitch could be made. The reasons given for not being a member would be valuable info for the BOD. If they were then they could be pointed to a chapter.
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I noticed that too Dean and agree 100%. Implementing great free ideas like this will really pay off as long as we keep encoring it world wide and continue the practice.
It's getting better everyday!
John
 
.......Dean I took your suggestion and did a search by Google. Here is what I found.

google search - gyrocopter --
Rotary Wing Forum page 5
Popular Rotorcraft Association -- page 19 (note: shows a dead link)
Popular Rotorcraft Association -- page 41

Now I know there are links that will point me to PRA but that isn't the question.

I don't think there are many people that would look at 41 pages before the found the information for gyrocopter.

Leon
(kc0iv)
Hey, missed your post! And you have made a good point. I'll pass this on to someone (who?) and see if they can get the PRA a better position. I understand there are ways to do this using keywords but don't have a clue as what to suggest.

Tim? Have any idea on how we change our listing placement. Seems kinda crazy that gyrocopter doesn't pop the PRA up close to the top after say Igor Bensen. I see your GyroWiki is at the top!
 
Ron: I wasnt one of the board members you approached before the Bensen Days meeting.

Dean: You need to have more confidence that the BOD will meet on the forum. Testy remarks like that make this job fun....:lol:


Stan
 
Tim, difference between a jet engine and a pilot? Jet engine stops whining when it shuts down.

Dean congratulations, thread is hot and people thinking/taking notice. Can't be bad.
 
Tim? Have any idea on how we change our listing placement. Seems kinda crazy that gyrocopter doesn't pop the PRA up close to the top after say Igor Bensen. I see your GyroWiki is at the top!

Dean, that is the Wikipedia at the top, not http:gyrowiki.com My gyrowiki site rates high when you search for photos, media and more technical searches.

As far as increasing the rankings in google for the PRA official website there are a few things. (which he may already be doing, I don't know)

One, the web master at the PRA needs to enroll the PRA website into the Google admins tracking system. That will make it easyer for google to index the sight and will increase the ranking. Also, index and metadata can be put directly into Google here.

Two, make sure the website metadata has the right keywords and information.

Three, this is the part WE come in. Those of us who post messages here and elsewhere need to put the link to the PRA web site in posts and Blogs from time to time and well as links to the PRA on our web sites.

Lastly, when you search google from time to time DO a search on "gyroplane" or "gyrocopter" or "Autogyro" and don't click on any links until you get to the one for the PRA then CLICK ON IT. Every single UNIQUE ip address that goes to the PRA site first from a search on these key words increases the rankings. Especially, if you are a google toolbar user (google tracks data from the tool bar users).

I hope that helps!

Next time you are on a friends computer, at work, at a hotel, library, coffee shop... google gyrocopter/gyroplane and keep paging till you get to the PRA site and click on it.

.
 
.......Dean: You need to have more confidence that the BOD will meet on the forum. Testy remarks like that make this job fun....:lol:


Stan
I was born and raised in Missouri, does that tell you something?!! And you know where I'm coming from.........;)

Without polling the entire PRA populace, I have a feeling that I've had less trouble with BOD communication than most. I think that is because, first, I expect it, second, I rarely (rarely, I say!) get overbeaing in my approach. I treat the BOD with the respect and expect the same. But, over the years there have been some that have refused to show themselves.

Since I usually address the whole board at once, instead of individuals, I suspect that some think 'let George do it!' when it comes to giving me a reply.

There are several present BOD members and several past BOD members that I know I'm going to get a response from when I come calling. Consequently when I want a one on one exchange, I tend to contact those that I figure are going to respond. I'm pretty patient and understand that BOD members have a life outside the PRA. So, I grant them what I believe is a reasonable amount of time to respond. If I don't get one then they get another email or phone call, and another one and......

Because of his military committment, I give Rusty more time than most. I recognize that he doesn't have quite the flexibility that most of us do. It took him two weeks to get back to me this last time and I was prepared to give him another week when he responded. The first thing he did was apologize for the delay and explain what he had been up too. I appreciated it. He normally doesn't take near that much time. I can imagine that he has a ton of communicating to do so know that I'm going to half to get in line.

I firmly believe that Rusty is creating a new culture where communication is going to be the corner stone for the organization. And it should be.

Got a suggestion for you to take to the board meetings.

When it comes time to review the bylaws, think about including a requirement that BOD members can only miss so many so many online meetings before losing their seat. There already is a requirement that you guys have to make 50% of the regular meetings or you lose your seat. Since there is only two meetings a year that shouldn't be hard!

A quorum for online meetings go hand in hand with the requirement to participate. A meeting can always be held, but all organizations I've been involved with, have required a quorum or it wasn't considered a legal meeting as far as decision making or expenditures.

If the bylaw review has started then please pass this on for consideration.

I've created lists of items for consideration over the years and since I don't know what was considered I probably have ended up presenting them again and again. One item is one that you are partially satisfying unofficially.

That is designating one board member to be the liason between the PRA community via this Forum and acting as a info conduit between the two. Please include that in your thoughts about BOD activities during the bylaw review.

While this Forum is not a PRA site, it is obvious that the PRA gets some attention here. Whether it is the true pulse of the community is open to conjecture. But at the moment it is the only vehicle available.
 
Went back an extracted all the wishes and ideas.
You won't believe the quantity and quality, I very impressed with you knowledge and solutions.

These are just excerpts and not in any order. I will rewrite then but thought it might help to consolidate them for all to help modify and add to.

1) The PRA new "welcoming spirit"
2) Reduce the Dues
3) More bang for your dues A nice, free cap or T-shirt would be walking advertising as well
4) Want group insurance.
5) More gyro airfields
6) Increase Magazine content and more color
7) Set-up worldwide commissioned, telemarketing to sell magazine space making the magazine at least break even hopefully make a profit.
8) Forum Software for PRA
9) eZine watermark each copy of the magazine distributed online to be traceable to the login or registration type security and with testing in parallel and making one issue a year "open to the public"
10) Expand content of on-line mag with threads from here on Build’s like Stan’s, accident reports and way to avoid them, Human interests threads that receives over some threshold in the number of hits it receives.
11) SELECTED articles from the magazine on the website in .pdf format to promote the magazine
12) Common tools.Newsletters, automated billing, Calendar, scheduling, labor request and automatic reminders prior to the event, automatic email notices, use the same forms, letters, contracts, and methods Hosting of chapter web-sites on our server.
13) Schedule gyro displays at all major cross-market events.
14) Member should be able to sign up 10 members and earn your membership
15) Sell the Magazine on stands.
16) DVD's he produces and gives out to anyone interested
17) writing articles for the PRA magazine
18) PRA members and non-members wish to promote our sport and increase the number of members, fields, and places to fly at least and that we have a common vested interest in growing the sport.
19) That for every actual pilot flying there are at least 1000 ‘want-to-be-someday’ that could be singed up each year if nothing else to instantly learn more about the sport, its cost, etc.
20) That there are many untapped vertical markets of ‘adventure type of sports’ events where they never thought of flying gyros before and that could easily be exploited while providing members opportunities to perform and share their aircraft in symbiotic enjoyment of flying that compliments Gyros and vice versa. Examples include on and off-road auto and motorcycle, boat, sand-buggy, and aircraft racers, river rats, geologist, biologist, miners … Baja 1000 and many more fun events to display and fly over the fun all while direct selling memberships to a totally different vertical market. They already have a crowd there might as well sell to them and share and grow the sport.
21) That a successful grassroots’ direct membership plans using tested sales techniques and volunteers could easily be developed to recruit thousands maybe Tens of thousands of new members which will more than pay for itself.
22) That a small commission could be paid even to a non-PRA member / volunteer for signing up a new member. = Self-perpetuating marketing funds and continue growth.
23) That arrangements can be made to be paid by these event sponsors for the gas and sometimes food for performers/ participants for many vertical market events as with air shows and this income can be factored in as payment to volunteers for showing up and marketing for PRA until the marketing plan is profitable and self-sustaining.
24) That Gyro Pilots want to fly these types of events and will fly for gas money to get there?
25) Only scheduling and repackaging is required by changing the ‘concept/ thinking’ of what PRA is selling 'New Members'. Begin selling the dream of learning to be master of the sky with a packet of information, as ‘the product’ worth the $50.00 in time savings alone (and a salesmen closing tool). Instantly you have an increased perceived value with the magazine and the web-site suddenly becoming a freebee for new members.
26) That many ancillary sources of income can be derived from these events that would pay members to participate and be able to fly and pay for the marketing plan as well if you reuse the money for marketing. EG: lottery tickets for a gyro ride. Aerial videos of the event and copies sold to individual participant and even TV and paper news outlets, food and drink is always needed at these out-back locations and it's always a money maker and easy to rent a roach coach for these events that could pay for members to (fly their gyro) and gas to travel to perform/ sell!
27) Increase the magazines profitability by direct marketing (our vertical market to them) the manufactures of these same events to advertizing with RPA sharing there sport and equipment with adventure minded potential customers increasing advertising revenue at the same time.
28) Display board for bike or car show you would be swamped Put a "Dog & Pony" show together. Go to EAA.ORG, cut & paste the e-mail addys of the chapters near you. E-mail them an offer to speak about sport gyroplanes & helicopters at their meeting. Chuck Roberg and I did just that, we could have done 50 of them.
We put together a PowerPoint presentation, they supplied the projector (and our dinners) I was offered gas money many times. Chuck drove up to Wisconsin to speak to a group. They love it. We probably averaged one or two new members for every visit. Sometimes it takes a while to see them though, so don't get discouraged. You can spread the word and end mis-conceptions about our sport. like tractor pulls, big truck meets, local fairs, and (Cars shows
29) "gyro ambassador" Provide opportunity for pilots to fly. The more it is promoted at events where people can come have a look and a chat, find out about it and possibly even get a ride, the more people are going to come into the sport. As John pointed out. " there are many untapped vertical markets of ‘adventure type of sports’ events where they never thought of flying gyros before and that could easily be exploited while providing members opportunities to perform and share their aircraft in symbiotic enjoyment of flying that compliments Gyros and vice versa." People attending these types of events are the types who would be more ready than most to have a go at it given the opportunity.
30) Tim Occonor : If anyone has build reports or anything they would like to see in a PRA magazine article but you don't have the time or desire to write it up please email me and I will assist you or write it up for you. Just send me your info and photos.
31) Grassroots membership drives
32) processing membership renewals, renewal reminders and new memberships, Welcome message for new members.
33) Welcome Pack of info.
34) bi-annual meeting of chapter reps to meet online?
35) use our chapter as an LLC heaven to acquire airfields leases
36) new sources of revenue with fundraisers at events we frequent that are earmarked specifically for marketing PRA or labor tasts
37) hire about 10 commission phone salesmen from around the world to sell ads space for the mag
38) co-op for shared common jobs/labor like publishing newsletters at one central location by one person that all chapters help share the expense and pay for thus freeing the members to market.
39) republish past stories
40) sell food, at every event as a way to provide funds for marketing, etc
41) Reduce the critics by making the airport produce some type of annual income
42) I am a VMD vendor. It is the largest motorcycle swapmeet in the world. It cost me close to 2K a year to participate. I will gladly add the PRA display to mine and talk gyro kits to bikers.
43) Publish the test mag for free during the tests
44) What if you could receive each issue of the magazine online, then get the entire year's five or six issues mailed to you, all at once, at the end of the year?
45) Make events better by planning them in advance on-line. I think this thread is a good example of how a collection of people can hash out some ideas and bring many new ideas to the table making some good ideas even better.
46) TRADING ads in a motorcycle magazines and all others that will trade.
47) PRA can help the Chapters and the Chapters can help the PRA driving memberships for each other, support, news, events, sponsors and more
48) offering a student membership at a reduced rate
49) giving a reduced camping rate for PRA membership holders. Even if it is just $5 it will give a perceived value to members.
50) Instead of worrying about people "ripping off" the PRA, we need to concentrate on building a PRA that is more like "family". You wouldn't rip off family, would you?
51) Earmark a portion of any noticeable increases in membership from trading ad’s with other magazines for full-time marketing, etc.
52) monthly request for labor
53) Figure out what percentage of the PRA budget you believe goes to everything else but the magazine, multiply that percentage by $50, and send that much as a donation to PRA in lieu of joining or renewing.
54) Remove the free mailing of lifetime members of the magazine the eZine would be free.

Fastest start I've ever seen.
John
Edited:
55)When it comes time to review the bylaws, think about including a requirement that BOD members can only miss so many so many online meetings before losing their seat.
56) designating one board member to be the liason between the PRA community via this Forum and acting as a info conduit between the two

Extracted from another thread. See: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16823&page=2
57)Ads in publications are usually sold in column inches. That means one column wide and one inch deep. Paul Abbott made two ads for PRA, one one-column-inch ad and one two-column inch ad. I sent both to the chapters. FYI, the ads Paul made are 2-1/4 inches wide.

There's always a catch! The catch with ADVERTISING is that PRA would have to pay for the space. This is what we've done with the EAA Sport Pilot and Cycle World ads.

What you'd be doing in PUBLIC RELATIONS is to be treated more like a Public Service Announcement on radio or TV -- it looks like an ad, but please place it as a public service.

You know, if you had several generic "ads" ready to go, they wouldn't have to be used just for Mentone. They'd work for Bensen Days, ROC, El Mirage -- and any PRA chapter fly-in. Just adding to your idea...

"And how about a format for a generic notice for a calendar entry?"
This part I'm working on right now, also automatic: billing, volunteer labor list with email notification when it due, verification and greeting letter to new members after submitting your payment, auto e-emailing of everything to everybody in our database.

Your request for calendared press releases has just been added to the list.

58) Sell advertising to 2 manufactures a year placing a picture of their safe aircraft on all of our press releases and ads for events. Then everything we advertize for an event would include in our background logo pictures of there aircraft advertising them at the same time subliminally every time we place an ad in another publication.

59)If we can burn a DVD with many old issues it will sell worldwide and along with the current magazine for the price of one year´s subscription it wil be a hell of a marketing tool.

60)The best thing that could happen towards educating an uninformed public about gyroplanes is through the use of video, hands down.

We have a number of talented videographers in our ranks...Tim Chick, Dan Donley, Shawn Adams, and others. I also used to own a video production company, and really enjoy doing video production. (Birdy has even recently put up stuff on YouTube. If you want to get people excited about gyro flight, let them watch Birdy fly!)

I think there is enough high quality in-flight footage already in existence that with a few interviews from knowledgeable people sprinkled in and some structure added, a great gyro flight video could be created to dispel many of the myths of gyros.

This video can then, again, be put on YouTube, MetaCafe, etc., then embedded on aviation blogs, PRA website, possibly even distributed on DVD at fly-ins for a low fee.

Possibly you could get some small subsidy from Butterfly, Dominator, Xenon, etc. for inclusion in the video.
Just my opinion...I've been thinking about this for a while now.
I think Shawn Adams actually had started what was looking like an absolutely exceptional documentary on gyros...not sure whatever happened to that one.

61)sending letters to some or all past members and asking them why they left and what the PRA can do to get them back.

Ps
If I missed any please point them out, thanks!!!
 
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Hey, great reply with some interesting info. I wonder what would/will happen if we all start doing what you have suggested in a short period of time. I hope they don't think the site is under attack!
 
.....Dean congratulations, thread is hot and people thinking/taking notice. Can't be bad.
Don't thank me, thank XenonTom! I'm not sure what his reasons were for kicking off this thread but it has been an interesting brainstorming session.
 
Hey, great reply with some interesting info. I wonder what would/will happen if we all start doing what you have suggested in a short period of time. I hope they don't think the site is under attack!

Of course your right Dean. Some are going to feel under attack. It's probably inevitable, and normally competition breeds a better product for all.

But I am truly sorry if we're causing anyone grief, know my intentions are only trying to promote gyro's the best way I know how.

John
 
Don't thank me, thank XenonTom! I'm not sure what his reasons were for kicking off this thread but it has been an interesting brainstorming session.
I think he means for requesting us to join PRA that started off the whole who owns the site!
John

Oh and thanks to Tom too of course.

PS
Also, so far, Dean you are our best salesmen for memberships, I like the way you step up and just ask us to join!
 
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Ron: I wasnt one of the board members you approached before the Bensen Days meeting.

Dean: You need to have more confidence that the BOD will meet on the forum. Testy remarks like that make this job fun....:lol:


Stan

Sorry Stan, It may have been Ernie Boyette I spoke with then... I just remember talking to two old dudes with grayish hair, could have been any of ya! :flame::focus: ;)
 
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I'm sure being on the BOD is not an easy task. Having 1500 people say 1500 different things will overload at the top, and hence everything will topple over. That is not new.


Jim.

Jim,
I have quite a bit of time on the PRA BoD over the past 35 years. I have probably received no more than 3 phone calls or e-mails regarding the running of the PRA.

I think the brunt of the complainers are the fringe dwellers that reside here.
It's fast, cheap and very easy to take a shot at the PRA on line.
 
From a current BOD member

From a current BOD member

Hi All—

I’m a member of the PRA BOD. I don’t read very many of the posts on the Rotary Forum because using the Internet is usually a late night activity for me. I’m not sure who else on the BOD uses the Forum. After reading this lengthy, lengthy thread on PRA, I’ve got some rambling comments of my own.

Thanks, Todd, for coming up with the idea of the Rotary Forum, and making it happen. Threads like this one show how it can be a service to the rotorcraft community.

Since I joined PRA in 1992, I have been constantly impressed by PRA members. I doubt there is anywhere else in the US a group of such helpful, opinionated, resourceful, trustworthy, cheap, intelligent, independent, and self-sufficient people. Love y’all!

When I helped found Chapter 007 in 1995, communications with National PRA were one-sided: us-to-them. Wish we’d had a Dean Dolph back then! In 2000, I mailed out 63 letters (at my own expense) to get chapters to join the PRA Safety Net. I got 8 responses. So, poor communications cut both ways.

As you’re aware, my major concern is flight safety. About a decade ago, Tom Milton and I were volunteered to be PRA Safety Coordinators. By default, I ended up with the job. If you have something you think PRA should be doing, there a place for you to volunteer. Talk is cheap. DO something.

I wanted to be on the BOD to raise flight safety to the BOD level. Even got elected, probably due to name recognition instead of talent. What I didn’t realize was that safety was already represented, by CFIs whose #1 job is flight safety. Live and learn.

I voted against raising the membership dues to $50. Still disagree with it! But I disagree not because of the amount. When PRA members can get $50 worth of PRA benefits, I will go along with the $50 dues. There’s a lot National PRA could do, for very little money, to provide real rotorcraft-oriented benefits. But that’s for another post.

Last year I flew on the EAA B-17. I have a buddy who is now 88, a WWII B-17 pilot with 26 missions. His kids rented the whole plane and invited me along. He went from being an 88-year-old old fart to being a 22-year-old bomber pilot. It was an amazing transformation! The B-17 ride was cool, too. PRA could have something like the B-17 if someone else would buy it, restore it, maintain it, and fly it for PRA. Otherwise, it’s too expensive.

The airport purchase was before my time. I support the decision of Gary Goldsberry and others buy it. A flight-oriented aviation organization needs an airport. When we did the 2002 PRA convention in Texas, at the last minute we were almost shot down by the need to get a $1 million insurance policy before the fly-in could proceed. That insurance isn’t cheaper today – and that plus finding a rotorcraft-friendly airport every year for the annual fly-in makes having a permanent home airport imperative.

Also before my time was the PRA money crunch. What I think happened was PRA operating as usual while the number of PRA members plummeted. The old BOD fixed the immediate problem and should get the credit for that. What has not been fixed, and what the BOD cannot fix, is member expectations. Members expect the same size, quality, and color in a magazine for 2,000 members that they got when the PRA had 5,000 members. Frankly I think we’re lucky to have a magazine at all.

When Rotorcraft Editor Rick Gilley produces the magazine, he does it on a computer. So the “computer version” of the magazine already exists. I see three problems with it. First is the need to have a “members only” section on the PRA website, from which members can download the magazine. Second is that Rick Gilley’s computer file is so big I will never be able to download it through my dial-up modem. Third is that many members will want a printed copy anyway, so PRA is still stuck with printing the magazine.

There’s a problem with offering “cheap” dues with an e-mailed magazine. It takes just as much time to put the e-mail version together as the print version – because they are the same thing. If you physically print fewer copies, each copy costs more to print. I support having the same dues for each option, and members choose which option they want. The beauty of the computer version is that you get it TODAY. Faster than Priority Mail, and getting it TODAY is what you’d be paying for.

I talked to Rusty Nance about the need to do public relations for Mentone. He asked me to do the job. PRA has no PR budget. So it’s the same with PR as with many PRA volunteer activities: you not only get the job, you pay the expenses. I can do it one year, but not two. Any takers for next year?

I think the future for gyroplanes is bright. They’re still one of the cheapest ways to get into the air. And cheap to fly. And a lot more fun than a Cessna, which feels to me like sitting in a flying telephone booth that had a horrible accident.

I have a right to gripe about PRA because I pay $50 per year for the privilege. Personally, I feel that if you aren’t willing to pay the dues, you don’t have the right to gripe about the organization. Put up or shut up. And whatever you gripe about, be willing to help fix. I know this statement won’t be popular on the forum. But it’s how I feel about it, no apologies.

To end my rant, I’ll say that PRA also ought to be the organization for every experimental helicopter builder. On the forum and elsewhere, people talk gyros, gyros, gyros. But as I see it, PRA is rotorcraft, not just gyros. Mosquitos and Helicycles have got to be a tremendous amount of fun. I will never be able to afford one, but I can wish.

If what I have written offends anybody, don’t take it personally. My 2 cents is as good as your 2 cents, but no better. And I wish someone would summarize all the good ideas in this thread and e-mail them to all PRA officers, current BOD members, and anyone who wants to run for the BOD. A LOT of good thinking here.

If I can help anyone in PRA on anything, let me know. I seldom get a phone call or e-mail. Thank you for reading the long reply from the newbie on the PRA BOD.
 
Can always tell a voice of experience. Very insightful for me.
As to next years PR I'll volunteer to do it as an experiment by posting a thread like this one to plan it and asking for help and we can split the labor up and all do it together. Or by myself, but so far many here have offered to help very encouraging. It would be a lot better with all of your ideas and help too!
---
Also Stan called me and is on it, as far as a finished copy of solutions being sent to him.

John
 
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Hey...I am taking notes! All these inputs being hashed over will allow me to do my job easier.

The PRA will see better days, I am positive. Too many wanting things to happen.

Anyone that wants to express new ideas, concerns, or just plain yell at a board member, please contact me and I will respond!

Stan
 
Hey...I am taking notes! All these inputs being hashed over will allow me to do my job easier.

The PRA will see better days, I am positive. Too many wanting things to happen.

Anyone that wants to express new ideas, concerns, or just plain yell at a board member, please contact me and I will respond!

Stan
Told you Stan is really trying, and never met anyone more receptive or open!

We should all be helping with what we know. As I discovered Stan and the rest of the BOD want the same thing we do. They are just seriously understaffed for lack of funds to be able to turn this around quickly without our directed volunteer labor.

John
 
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You can say anything you want on my shift Kerry! You do stuff!!!
But I burned 200 mini cd´s in one day with a business presentation about 80 megs and they only cost one stamp to send plus the envelope. I think the cost is around 50 cents per copy and will solve the issue of virtual magazine for all computer owners (no dial up needed)
A good DVD/CD duplicator goes for around 500 bucks.
If we can burn a DVD with many old issues it will sell worldwide and along with the current magazine for the price of one year´s subscription it wil be a hell of a marketing tool.
I am inclined to buy one even if I am alredy a subscriber, just to keep the DVD and give the subscription to a friend (we can double numbers fast)
Even down here where the benesses of PRA can´t reach many gyronauts and aficcionados will buy it for the history in that DVD.
I´ve done it and can do it again.
I can e-mail a flash presentation to any that wants to see the kind of work I am talking about . . .first class!
Ideas are out there and the desire of doing something is growing we need coordinators and roll up sleeves . . .
For some time my priorites will not include sending dues to any Organizations but I consider myself part of PRA, Sunstate and TRA.
Heron
 
The summary has changed. Added Heron's above to list!
John
 
WE have tons of material to edit and create a DVD: PRA then and now!
Pics, videos and text with experts opinions will be a must to any person that is thinking about joining gyros as entertainment option.
I love going through old magazine and see people dressed like fools!!! :D (me on bell bottoms and sideburns it is a laughable image)
Heron
 
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