Instructor problems

There! It is the same chapter 31 . . .
Get it going guys and gal.
Good place to meet is the ASC Nationals in Olney! :D (c´mon not that far)
Heron
Good Idea Heron!
 
Driving is kinda long way but flying to Dallas is just a jump.
I love the desert, spring time there is beautifull.
Heron
 
Well I called Bobby!
Explained I hoped I hadn’t caused him any problems. Bummer!!!

At first he explained he’s 75 and his memory isn’t as good as it used to be and he doesn’t remember the phone call that long ago.

Until I mentioned my brother’s name!!!

Then his memory became much better.

He explained some things; and that he only does the books for Chapter 31 and please call Joe the president and leave him out of it.

Doesn't know yet if they are going to even start meetings in September.

He also said he’s too old and would I take his name off the PRA contact list. We will, now I feel bad for trying to help and so does he.

So maybe Teddy is right they may not want us to join Chapter 31?:Cry:

Bobby will help Greg and I anyway he can personally but he had a Cessna 150 and did the maintenance too and could not get enough folks to fly it to break even and sold it. I mentioned this only because we’ve fixing up a 150 for the same thing, hope we do better. Dave wants his ticket I know.

Joe isn’t in town today, so will keep trying his number.

More details as soon as I know them.

PS:
Teddy I will remove all mention to chapter 31 and will only mention PRA central and out flying club if you wish please let me know as your the only member I can get in touch with apparently and Bobby wants out of it. It's no problem, let me know what you wish.
 
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Teddy
I just removed all mention to Chapter 31, just in case your shy? No problem MON!!!:cool:
 
It sounds like you have enough people for your own chapter John. Why don't you start one and see how easy, or difficult, it is. It might be a good experience.
 
John / All In....

I applaud your enthusiasm for getting more gyro CFIs in the ranks. I appreciate the frustration many feel because they are miles from a gyro CFI. However, there are a couple comments and observations I'd like to make, just food for thought.

You mentioned you would let the airplane guys fly your gyro for free. I am not a lawyer but I have taken some law classes. It probably explains why I think of the legal aspect so much. Anyway, if you lent your gyro to someone and something bad happened you would be named in the subsequent lawsuit. Just something to think about. It's terrific you would help in that way to get more CFIs. I just do not know if opening yourself up to all that liability is a good thing for you.

As to all those people who are chomping at the bit to take gyro lessons ? I started a helicopter company years ago. Prior to opening the doors I asked 20 then-current Robinson pilots if they would come to me to transition into a Bell 47 or Enstrom. All were enthusiastic about flying something different and even signed papers showing their intent. No one ever followed through. I'm not saying it would happen with your gyro enthusiasts, but it is very easy to talk the talk but suddenly becomes more difficult when it's time to walk the walk.

I am currently faced with not having a gyro CFI in the area. I am a helicopter CFI and am looking to get a Gyro CFI add-on. I will travel to fly with Steve McGowan in Georgia for some training (maybe multiple trips) and checkride prep, and then to Ron Menzie in Arkansas for the checkride. Hundreds of miles of travel, lodging, meals, etc. But, it is what I want to do so I will do what it takes. It would be terrific for some gyro CFIs to travel to the students. But, as Steve McGowan mentioned, people bail at the last minute and that CFI, after spending a lot of money for travel, is left with less money than his expenses. Early in my CFI career the helo company sent me to a couple different cities 100 miles away because there were people who committed to taking lessons. Once there, the majority of them didn't show.

Again, it's great you are championing the CFI issue. I just don't think a travelling CFI is the answer. How about this ? Every PRA chapter make it a goal to have at least one gyro CFI. If the chapter has none, decide on at least one person to become a CFI with the chapter footing most or all of the bill for that person to become a CFI. With all the PRA chapters spread across the country it would be a good start.

Again, just food for thought.....

Steve
 
It sounds like you have enough people for your own chapter John. Why don't you start one and see how easy, or difficult, it is. It might be a good experience.
Hi John
I hope Joe is more receptive. We would like to all just play together!

But your right we may have more people wanting to join than are currently in Chapter 31, and as a side note; the last flying club I started ended up as one of the largest schools and travel clubs in Ca. and a Piper Dealership too.

Thanks John we will do whatever it takes!!
 
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@Steve

All good advice and matches my own experience.

Instructors: We have a small problem with my first plan of having each chapter creating a flight instructor of their own. They all will be living in poverty as there is not enough students to go around. Our market is too small at least for now. But we could increase the instructor income we have today by using our rotorcraft and having them come to us.
If the instructors are willing this could be a win, win, situation until we grow both more students and instructors.

The legal catch 22:

We are using the Mooney defense for liability defense. That's were you setup a LLC owned by a third party (a relative) who owns nothing and as nothing to lose. Then you keep loans on the aircraft and assets equal to more than their actual value.

As you know recorded FAA loans to creditors must be paid off first prior to any judgment so there is nothing of value available ever to sue for. Like Mr Mooney always said sue me and you own an aircraft company that can’t even be sold for what it’s worth.

Attorney takes one look at what they can make off a law suite and won’t even take a case on contingency.

Once you’re sued the members stop paying dues and stop flying the aircraft and the LLC stops making the payments on the aircraft. Before the case is even in trial we reprocess the aircraft and there is really nothing left then. We don’t hire an attorney or even show up for court. They win nothing but a judgment against a retired person with no money and no way to collect a cent. Then you start over with a new relative or friend.
 
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as a side note; the last flying club I started ended up as one of the largest schools and travel clubs in Ca. and a Piper Dealership too.

Hi John,

Which club was this? Just curious. We might know some of the same people.

Jim
 
Hi Jim, I bet we do! Aviation is a very small community. When my brother and I fly cross country it's hard not to meet someone at a strange airport while refueling that Greg doesn't know at least one student, IA, or past/present Dealer. It use to surprise me, not anymore, we look for folks now.

We started Border Aeronautics at Brown Field, Piper Partners, and Border Aeronautics flying/travel club that was run by the members. This was in the mid 70 to 80's and was the most fun business our family ever ran together. It's really was just a party with friends.

But then the VA funding was removed and the profit ended so we sold avoiding the collapse of the aviation market I think in 84 or 86. I'm bad with dates, as I rarely even know what day it is, sometimes I'm wrong as to even the week or month it really is.
 
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Having problems with 31? Where is my flame thrower?? :D
WE should have a way to help all trying CFI´s and collect from them in flight time.
Heron
 
StanFoster

StanFoster

S. Craft- That sounds typical of people liking to listen what they want to do, then never doing it. That probably explains why my R22 instructor wasnt very excited when I told him in January that I wanted to take helicopter lessons in the spring. I am sure he has heard ducks quack before! When I did show up for lessons, and kept coming back for more, then he saw I was for real and he all of a sudden got very enthused himself! If people just try to do what they say, the world will get more accomplished and have more enthusiasm. My hat is off to all you CFI's- you are doers and supply the training for us want to be doers! Thanks again, you all are very much appreciated and needed! Stan
 
@Heron!
I agree, we are gong to try and help all! Those solutions are always the best!!

@Stan
Yes, Stan I've had trouble with folks believing I'm serious and not just BS. But once I perform and things start happening or making money. Things change very quickly and more folks believe they too join in the fun and it has a snowball effect. Most talk about doing things in life. I just do it! Like Chapter 31's state of the are website it can cause problems just jumping in but nothing is really wasted change Chapter 31 to Chapter 42 (the answer to everything =42 don't you know) we can always take are toys and start a new club, with only those that don't wish to play with us being the losers.

Yes, yes yes, great point as usual Stan!
Thank you INSTRUCTORS for hanging in there and keeping us growing and still being here to train ME! Without you ALL there is no safe way to learn to fly these things.
I'm so glad rotorcraft is additive and you can't give it up too!!!
 
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S. Craft- That sounds typical of people liking to listen what they want to do, then never doing it. That probably explains why my R22 instructor wasnt very excited when I told him in January that I wanted to take helicopter lessons in the spring. I am sure he has heard ducks quack before! When I did show up for lessons, and kept coming back for more, then he saw I was for real and he all of a sudden got very enthused himself! If people just try to do what they say, the world will get more accomplished and have more enthusiasm. My hat is off to all you CFI's- you are doers and supply the training for us want to be doers! Thanks again, you all are very much appreciated and needed! Stan

My hat is off to You ! Stan:first:
Teddy
 
John
I am not shy, just believe you answer all my question I ask
Thank You
Teddy
Ps can wait to meet you.
As usual I misunderstood! Sorry Teddy.

Thanks Teddy I've been looking forward to meeting you, Marion and the gang!

See you at least at the fly-in Teddy hopefully at the September meeting for Chapter 31!

Do you know if they plan on starting up again then Teddy?

PS:
I really like happy ending!!!
 
John let Dave and me know if you get any where with Joe the president of chapter 31. Dave has tried in the past and has gotten no where and hit a block wall. Teddy is no help as you can see, it even seems he has a hand in keeping us out of Chapter 31 like he has in banning us from Chapter One.

You can all see my frustration with some of these few people that have a straggle hold on this little gyro community. It's there way or the high way with their attitudes, they do not want to grow in my opinion! John you scare them with your big ideas.
 
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Tina and Dave your in!!!!

Just got off the phone with Joe!!!

Joe was busy doing a project at home and could not talk as much as we both wanted! = He’s a doer!!!

But he really seemed friendly, positive, and open to me. Not one negative word so far and he will call me back at his convenience.

RANT!!!

I can't separate the qualities I don’t like in ME anymore than I can separate the bad qualities in even my family members and my own children. When it comes to family, people, and with any large group I have to take the good with the bad as some of these people still have a great deal to teach and give and they often are the most fun to play with after you get to be friends.

I have learned to follow Christ’s example and forgive, instantly and Gandhi’s example of to concur through peace and let the contrast of the two approaches (hate vs. Love) to all be seen by all! Hate destroys it’s self and the more I forgive the faster it destroys itself. Then you just act normal, enjoying even the so-called bad and let the haters drive everyone away from him and back to our group. It’s really works every time, it just takes longer, but you never are upset or unhappy. What person would you rather hang out with? I have never tried to be the leader or tried to take a group away. It just happens that way I can’t help it that the few haters end up being all-alone.

These poor folks create there on Hell on earth for themselves, not for me I’m not affected ever. If they saw a life recording of the happiness needle of those who can truly forgive and how it barley can be deflected and only for an instant of the time they suffer and rethink what hateful things to do for years to get even. What a waste of time and emotion.

I'd like a chance to become friends with all. Their is always conflicts with a group just like my loving family, but if we just learn to forgive and enjoy all the rest of life and the fun it's only a small speed bump in time.

My feelings are that if anyone wants to play together and be cool from now on then we have no problems anyway at least for today. Teddy is willing to receive a hug from you and wants to meet me. That's a great NEW start for all, I think!

They will have to exclude themselves by their behavior in the future as in my world we are all now trying to get along and maybe all become good friends. Either way; the rest of us are going to have the time of our lives with or without them.

Forgiveness is the gift that truly is much more beneficial to the giver than most will ever know or could possibly imagine. This is not intuitive, or taught much at all!
 
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