Repairmans certificate

StanFoster

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,139
Location
Paxton, Il
Aircraft
Helicycle N360SF
Total Flight Time
1250
Just curious about the varying levels of evidence we all had to produce to our FSDO to obtain our repairmans certificate.


I bought my RAF2000 half built....at least at the time I thought it was half built. I would now say it was about 2/3rds done when I brought it home.

Anyway...I took pictures of the progress of it and had everything all ready to go whenever I made the appointment with the FSDO. I was a little apprehensive about this beings I wasnt sure I would qualify.

I stopped by one day just to set up a meeting for getting my repairsmans certificate. I happened to have my airworthiness certificate....and my log books but no pictures of the building process were with me. I was just inquiring about setting up an appointment. Next thing I know...he is doing it right then and there. He asked to see some pictures of the gyro being built and I told him I had them at home as I wasnt really planning on doing it today. I thought for a second and pointed to the the RAF gyro I happened to have on my t-shirt. I said "Here is what it looks like" . Long story short.....I received my repairmans certificate right on the spot.

However....when I go obtain my repairmans certificate for my SparrowHawk...I am planning on either having him go to the Rotary Forum and see my "SparrowHawk Embryo" thread.....or showing him several dozen printed out pictures of me working on it. I should have no problem as I will have much more proof. Plus....I know I built this one completely.

Any similar experiences? or ones that were very strict?

Stan
 
The DAR who I paid to inspect my gyro handled all that. I got one in the mail from the FAA about a month after the gyro was inspected.
 
Stan,

Just like you, I was prepared for the worst case scenario when I went to my local FSDO (Seattle) to apply for a Repairman's Certificate for my GyroBee. I brought along all my paperwork, my builder's log, photos, etc.

Turns out they didn't care to see anything accept the airworthiness and registration certificates. They simply went under the idea that since I'd received an airworthiness certificate for my gyro, this was "proof" enough for them I was qualified to be the repairman!

Other than filling out the application form, it couldn't have been any easier.

John L.
 
No problems here Stan. Zip Zip and all done. Temporary out the door and the permy in the mail.

I know you will be prepared tho, and hoping he would want to see some pictures...right?!;) :D :D


Cheers :)
 
Same as most peoples story. I had everything put together and packaged up. Builders log, photo album, receipts etc. etc. He didn't look at hardly anything. He glanced at the pictures out of curiosity but that was about it. I wouldn't do it any different the next time though. It wouldn't be good to be unprepared.
 
Went to FSDO office with no logs or pictures, just registration and airworthyness cert. Inspector asked about pictures(of a gyro...what?), and said I would have to mail them, he said forget it, and after seeing my Id he issued temporary certificate on the spot. Took less than 15 minutes.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH
 
Stan,
The guy from the FAA lived not far from my house. He took off 1/2 a day, used me as an excuse to get off & stopped by for about 30 min on his way home. He inspected my gyro in my driveway.
He had all the paperwork filled out, I only had to sign it.
He issued me the repairmans certificate & airworthiness on the spot.
Didn't even ask about my pictures or building log.
 
Stan aren't you using Tom Milton as a DAR to inspect your gyro? I thought he took care of the Repairmans certificate as part of his package?
 
I was going to have Tom do mine too but it turned out the local guy was the same price and easier to get things lined up with. I was pretty sure Tom told me he was going to do the application for repairmans for me as part of his deal.
 
Ron,
You had to pay? Was there anybody at the local FSDO that could have done it?
By using the FAA it was free.
 
I went to the FSDO and they were not very helpful and it all seemed like a big pain in the butt, so I used a DAR - 350$ - who did all of the paperwork etc.... and made it very very easy.
 
Funny thing is my DAR didn't even spend a full minute " inspecting " my gyro and never got closer than 10 feet to it....

I didn't have to show him a builder log, or reciepts, or anything other than 2 or 3 pictures of it as I built it and those I emailed him.

He did all the paperwork, all I had to do was apply for and make active my registration and buy and install N numbers and the placards
 
Ron, I believe in the past you could mail in the paperwork to the FSDO. They now require you to submit the paperwork in person.

Tom has the paperwork all filled out, in advance, that you need to bring to the FSDO.
 
If I remember correctly there are 99 FSDOs in the USA. They probably have at least 10 inspectors at each one. That's roughly 1,000 inspectors. Each one will have his own way of doing things and interpreting the FARs.

This is why they call the FAA the "Puzzle Palace".

Be happy, be very, very happy if you got through the process unscathed.
 
IMO, for what it's worth...I think we need not mention or offer braggadocia as regards your DAR's inspection of your machine.

Reason for my opinion...there may be some ass**** at the FSDO that would do some checking on that DAR and maybe cause him some grief?!

Like I said...just my opinion. My DAR did a fine job.;)


Cheers :)
 
I applied for my repairmans certificate a couple weeks ago and was told I would have to fly the 40 hours off first, all the FAA looked at was the operating limitations.
 
When my machine was being inspected by the DAR the local FAA boys showed up to inspect him. Lucky for me Charlie Presnell and Steve Graves were both there. After the DAR was through we asked about my RC and the DAR pointed to the feds and said to talk to them. They said we don't have the paper work with us. Steve pulled out the applications and the DAR loaned the fed his typewritter. They gave me a temp RC on the spot and I got RC a few weeks later in the mail.
 
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David ... who told you that?
"I applied for my repairmans certificate a couple weeks ago and was told I would have to fly the 40 hours off first, all the FAA looked at was the operating limitations."

I don't get this, you either were mistaken or got B-S'ed by whoever told you that. Getting a repairmen's certificate has nothing to do with flying the machine for any period of time, or even being a pilot. It was your ability to build a experiemental aircraft that counts(it is my understanding that it does not even have to fly at all). It is entirely possible that 40 hours would not be flown on the machine until after the annual was due one year later; then what were you supposed to do? You can see how that makes no sense at all. I would challange this.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH
 
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Guys, one reason Kitplanes et el. always encourage you to have all your photos including ones showing you working, is that the FAA keeps threatening to crack down on "hired gun" builders.

Some types are much more prone to this phenomenon than gyroplanes, the most expensive of which comes in under $100k. There are experimentals out there where the airframe, engine, and panel are each OVER $100k. You can build a Gyrobee for less than these guys pay for their MT-Propeller.

Everybody knows who's using hired guns and why. Some of these things take thousands and thousands of hours to finish. When a guy who's an investment banker or cardiothoracic surgeon shows up with a 5,000 hour build on a kit that was only released this year, and says he built it on his weekends, eyebrows go up.

There's been an internal disagreement at FAA -- some think the letter of the law should be always adhered to, and others argue that if the surgeon is going to be overhead in that thing, it's probably better that it was built by pros than by some inattentive beginner. The "letter-of-the-law" community is much larger inside FAA, from what I can see (obviously I am on the outside looking in). No one at FAA would ever say on the record that some of them turn a blind eye to hired guns, or that some of them are looking for the right case to make an example of. But that's definitely happening.

Now, Kitplanes and other magazines will encourage people to thoroughly document their build because they want you not to be the innocent caught in suspicion of hired-gun activity. In the gyro and experimental-helo world, it's much less of a concern. But I could name some types where I would bet that not one in ten airframes was built by the guy whose name is on the C of A.

And one thing to bear in mind -- when you sign that C of A, you are the one whose arse is in a crack if the FAA finds a hired gun built it, 'cause you are the one who knowingly signed a false declaration to the FAA -- not the builder. The hired gun can walk away whistling. "It wasn't me, officer. I told him to put my name down and register it experimental-exhibition."

And false forms are something they are starting to arrest people and charge them with felonies for, at least as far as medicals go. So the best thing is to treat the FAA as if it had the power of a giant and the understanding of a baby, and bend over backwards to over-comply and over-document.

Most FAA folks are fine people, aviation enthusiasts and truly motivated by a desire to make our sport and livelihood safe for all. But all it takes is one Richard Cranium to ruin your life, and while there are very few of them, who's to say whether the luck of draw brings one to you? As Tom points out, there is no one FAA. Individuals and districts have incredible power and what is legal at one airfield might bring certificate action the next field over, which falls under a different FSDO.

Just to make matters more entertaining, as experienced aviation operations inspectors retire, they seem to be replacing them with non-flying lawyers, most of them last-in-their-class drones who have dreamed since childhood of a government job. Maintenance inspections are increasingly the ambit of folks who retired from the military but have never worked in civil aviation maintenance. All this is troubling, when you realize that the FAA is what Jefferson feared, "a government not of laws, but of men."

cheers

-=K=-
 
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