My Spot Landings Continue To Be Vacuous!

jcarleto

Aluminum Supporter
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
3,571
Location
Taylorsville, GA
Aircraft
Beech Bonanza G-35 N4638D/"The Bulldozer" 2-Place Gyroplane N575EE
Total Flight Time
Several
Vacuous: Containing or associated with a vacuum or a great amount of sucking.

I need suggestions. My take-offs are consistently good. My flying is consistently reliable. I can land safely and softly. My take-offs are good, including soft-field, short field and crosswind. But, my spot landings take way too much runway.

It is clear what I am doing wrong. I consistently level at 5 feet AGL and step down in one, two or three steps to an appropriate level for a flare. I recognize the correct level when I get there, but always feel too low until I level off. It may be that I am trying to override 30 years of FW landings, as I seem to level at the exact eye level that would be normal in a FW.

Short of installing a radar altimeter (probably overkill for the GyRonimo), I am open to suggestions for my practice sessions. I have spent a significant amount of time on spot landings and seem to be honing the technique of doing it wrong. A different approach strategy seems in order.

*JC*
 
JC your starring at the spot you need to look down the runway
 
You could try some Bensen blades. I have 2 sets of blades, Rotordyne and Bensen. The rotordynes seem to float more than the Bensen blades. I have been practicing for a spot landing contest this weekend and with the Rotordynes I float over it every time, with the Bensen I pull power of and it lands right there.

I think it just takes more practice.
 
I do have a tendency to focus on the runway at short range, and have been working on that. Staring downrange helps a little.

Crowhops...I have done over 141 landings now, including crow hops (sick, I know, to track those). I crow hop just fine....until I climb over 5 feet...then I level and 5 feet one the way down and start the infurating stair-stepping again (mumble).

I'm using Sport Copter blades. They do float more, and I have noticed that Bensen blades set you right down instead of floating. As much as I would love to blame the equipment, I'm pretty sure it is all operator.

*JC*
 
Greg Spicola suggested something to me that helped. Keep repeating to yourself as you come down. Fly it to the ground..fly it to the ground..fly it to the ground. Try not to move your lips.
 
LOL...Joe, I was OK with that idea until I thought about it and noticed my lips were moving. I also got the distinct impression that I should be clicking my heels together..."There's no place like the ground...no place like the ground...."

*JC*
 
JC I think Greg S. in post 2 has half of it nailed. When you get down to 20 - 30 feet up you should be looking at the end of the runway far away from you not down where you think you want to touch down. The other half can start back as far as the downwind turn and final turn if flying a conventional pattern. Fine adjustments can be made on final with power or lowering or raising the nose but you have to figure out and be pretty close in judgement when you turn final. You have to have already taken into account wind on the final approach and being going to touch down pretty close where you want with out adjustment on final. Then when you are down close and just watch the other end of the runway which is away from you. Not down where you think you are going to touch down.
 
So, is touching down to a complete stop always a relatively random matter? I'm about to begin the crowhop phase after finding that sweetspot flying the mains. I've been landing a 2-place consistly good with my instructor, but never the same place twice. Obviously, speed has to be bled off, but then I watch Roy Davis spot land SIDEWAYS ACROSS THE RUNWAY, and do it consistantly. There's some serious skill to be achieved. For now, I'll be happy just to land safely somewhere on the runway.
 
I was having this problem big time and flaring high. It turns out I would fixate on the ground. Once I started looking down the runway instead it got better. Practice is the prescription in my case. As others have indicated, im just happy to make a good landing. If its not on the exact spot... oh well. As long as its lined up and I didnt drop it in Im happy!

Fiveboy
 
I had to go buy a Monarch in order to make my spot landings look OK! Really you do need to look long. The problem with spot landings is that you tend to focus on that spot! They say if you focus your eyes on the same spot for up to two seconds your periphial vision is drastically reduced. You need your periphial driving or flying. When you focus tightly on something directly in front of you (especially the ground) its gonna mess with your perception. It sounds like your doing great practicing so much. I think thats half the fun. Greg and I will burn up a tank of gas shooting touch n go's there in Wauchula every other weekend.
 
PilotEscort,

I can land to a nice zero-roll once I finally decide I'm low enough to flare. The problem for me is my initial level-off is too high, so I stair-step down in one or more increments. Same thing on my engine-off landings. I come in a bit hot so I have enough speed to adjust my level-off. The landing ends up fine, but the trip over the ground isn't what it could be. If I leveled off at the right height the FIRST time, I'd make fine spot landings.

Perhaps I do focus my eyes too low. People keep telling me that, and I thought I was looking further out. I'll have to re-evaluate that position once this rain blows out of here.

*JC*
 
JC, not just further out but at the far end of the runway. Once you develope the timing and feel for when and how much to flair then it won't matter if the runway is very short as far as the flair because you will be using your vision to look at all the things in front of you not just staring at the spot. Probably the statement in post 12 is the reason for getting better at judging when to flair. But then the first half of the problem in getting down to the flair in the right relationship to the runway or "spot" is what will allow you to land across a runway not down it.
 
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In his book Bill Ortmayer describes a hands off landing just controlling direction with the rudder. No stick inputs and no throttle changes. At a chosen point and altitude above ground in the pattern he sets up a certain rate of decent with the throttle and by visual judgement makes his crosswind and final turns to effect touching down where he wants. He does it with gyros and fixed wing aircraft.
 
I normally make 80 percent of my final landings on a helipad. I can consistently make landings within a 3 foot area. They can be shallow with power , steep without power, it really doesn't matter. For each profile, I have a "aim" location in front of my touchdown spot. I know when I chop power I will continue to glide at a given airspeed so far in distance and run out of altitude and airspeed over the helipad. It is just a practice thing, and will come with time and experience, so don't sweat it too much if your still learning.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH
 
What may help is to practice your landing flare using some power and a shallow approach. This will give you more time to appreciate all cues telling you when your height is right for the flare part. Then try to bracket it until you get it right.

Also, try to separate the spot landing part from the flare part. Concentrate first on getting the right altitude for the flare right. After that, and only once you've got it down pat, start working on your spot landing skills.

-- Chris.
 
Great thread JC.

I've learned a lot of great practice techniques from all of you!!!
 
As much as I would love to blame the equipment, I'm pretty sure it is all operator.
For sumone training themselves [ newby], sumtimes the machine AND the conditions can make for a long learing process.
Sounds like you have an unpredictable wind gradient thats confusing you. Sumtimes its there, sumtimes not.
Different typs of blades can be harder to predict inertia storage levels too.
You gota stop virticaly and horisontaly at the point when your blades START to slow. Not before, and not after.
Sum blades drop suddenly after a long float, sum are gradual.
In the end, it take practice.
And its just as well its fun practicing ay. ;)
 
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