What is the world coming to (another political thread)

That is it Jim! Americans made a mess, people and presidents working together, the nation win or loses if the wrong candidate is put in office.
It is inconceivable that a nation holding this kind of power can have an election where the people is not aware of the consequences. You are holdind the nuclear trigger!
Here in this Forum I can see most people are educated enough to have access to information (been on the Net) and it is appaling some opinions and the partisanship at all costs. If its my candidate it has to win, no matter what!
Most of you have no clue what this has done to the world, some can see but still look away.
We need to work together and prepare fo any kind of situation that could come uppon us.
It has been all about money buying power to make more money.
Only you, the voter can step in for some changes.
Maybe it is time to vote for more parties on dispute, the world is not black and white.
I dont see why you are scared with Obama!
But again, I also don´t know your upbringging and background.
Considering what the actual Adminstration did, I could say many people have the right of launching preemptive strikes agains your nation, it is harming their way of life!
I miss the USA I could never find, I came in too late!
thanks
Heron
 
Heron!
I am scared of Obama's past work and his background plus he still has not said what his plan for America is other than to raise taxes on the rich and give to lessor people.The poor do not pay taxes anyway so why should they get a pay back from person's that have through hard work have made enough to pay taxes.I am not rich by any means but evan retired I still have to pay taxes. To give to some sucker that has never worked?
Oh by the way I had to pay some large bills today and am still ticked.
 
How do you think all this money wasted in 8 years of total ignorance will be paid?
How much of it was squeemed out by those in charge of running the war?
I wish you had another option to vote, other than the Party in Power, lets say Obama does not fit your bill, how many more Americans are prepared and ready to get their hands dirty? (meaning roll up sleeves)
Do you think the companies that are about to get the hand out will be hurt?
What happened to thousands of homes foreclosed and all the money paid towards them, coming out of hard earned savings and two years of monthly payments?
What´s Obama background that looks so bad? He is just like another politician, only younger and more in tune with current times.
Think Biden will help on international matters?
MacCain was a better name without the Babe . . .
If someone, white and with Obama´s drive and resumee could run, this election was alreay won!
But as I told you, it is an American affair, and every year more related to what is going on inside the country and less meaning to other nations.
You will have to deal with the moreno-white-black tensions and all those millions of immigrants that want to keep their families together (from 100 million, only 12 are "illegals")
Your country have changed and it is time to aknowledge and adapt.
Look at the poor, they are coming! Many powefull nations were imploded from inside because the rulers got sloppy.
Heron
 
>Just curious Mark but what rights has Bush taken from us?

That would be "due process" Bud ... illegal search, right of free association ... a pretty wide swath of civil rights have been compromised under the Bush administration in the name of "homeland security." A whole bunch of things I personally never thought I would see conservatives roll over on didn't get a peep- if you want specific examples here's a timeline list for starters: http://mondoglobo.ning.com/group/questionauthority/forum/topic/show?id=1509099:Topic:2937
 
LGoodhind,

Well that site is interesting enough.

Yep looks like the homework was done but who in the heck voted on all these changes?

I always knew ignorance of the law wasn't an excuse but it sure looks to me like you gotta be in the whitehouse or at Chaney's huntin camp to know all these new laws.

Are they laws?

Or are they just FBI or Homeland Security authorizations from the oval office?
 
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Just curious Mark but what rights has Bush taken from us?


Bud, Just a little from the website LGOODHIND provided for us.

Have a good read.

It sure is a lot worse than I originally though.



The USA Patriot Act becomes law. Among other things the law: makes it a crime for anyone to contribute money or material support for any group on the State Department’s Terror Watch List, allows the FBI to monitor and tape conversations between attorneys and clients, allows the FBI to order librarians to turn over information about patron’s reading habits, allows the government to conduct surveillance on internet and email use of US citizens without notice. The act also calls for expanded use of National Security Letters (NSLs), which allow the FBI to search telephone, email and financial records of US citizens without a court order, exempts the government from needing to reveal how evidence against suspected terrorists was obtained and authorizes indefinite detention of immigrants at the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities.

NJ Superior court judge and civil liberties scholar Anthony Napolitano, author of A Nation of Sheep, has described the law’s assault on first and fourth amendment principles as follows, “The Patriot Act’s two most principle constitutional errors are an assault on the Fourth Amendment, and on the First. It permits federal agents to write their own search warrants [under the name “national security letters”] with no judge having examined evidence and agreed that it’s likely that the person or thing the government wants to search will reveal evidence of a crime… Not only that, but the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone. The Patriot Act allows [agents] to serve self-written search warrants on financial institutions, and the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2004 in Orwellian language defines that to include in addition to banks, also delis, bodegas, restaurants, hotels, doctors' offices, lawyers’ offices, telecoms, HMOs, hospitals, casinos, jewelry dealers, automobile dealers, boat dealers, and that great financial institution to which we all would repose our fortunes, the post office.
 
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>Just curious Mark but what rights has Bush taken from us?

That would be "due process" Bud ... illegal search, right of free association ... a pretty wide swath of civil rights have been compromised under the Bush administration in the name of "homeland security." A whole bunch of things I personally never thought I would see conservatives roll over on didn't get a peep- if you want specific examples here's a timeline list for starters: http://mondoglobo.ning.com/group/questionauthority/forum/topic/show?id=1509099:Topic:2937

Some civil rights,maybe.Constitutional rights have have not been tramped on.I still have all my rights intact,I am not a "person of instrest" I still have my rights intact.I can carry my pistol,I still have the right to "peacefully assemble" We can still bash the hell from our leaders.
The trouble is that most don't know or understand just what rights we have under the constitution.Of course we have some things we need to do to also to have thes rights preserved. Understanding how goverment works is one of them. Most have not taken the time to try and understand just how our laws work.
 
Bud, Just a little from the website LGOODHIND provided for us.

Have a good read.

It sure is a lot worse than I originally though.



The USA Patriot Act becomes law. Among other things the law: makes it a crime for anyone to contribute money or material support for any group on the State Department’s Terror Watch List, allows the FBI to monitor and tape conversations between attorneys and clients, allows the FBI to order librarians to turn over information about patron’s reading habits, allows the government to conduct surveillance on internet and email use of US citizens without notice. The act also calls for expanded use of National Security Letters (NSLs), which allow the FBI to search telephone, email and financial records of US citizens without a court order, exempts the government from needing to reveal how evidence against suspected terrorists was obtained and authorizes indefinite detention of immigrants at the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities.

NJ Superior court judge and civil liberties scholar Anthony Napolitano, author of A Nation of Sheep, has described the law’s assault on first and fourth amendment principles as follows, “The Patriot Act’s two most principle constitutional errors are an assault on the Fourth Amendment, and on the First. It permits federal agents to write their own search warrants [under the name “national security letters”] with no judge having examined evidence and agreed that it’s likely that the person or thing the government wants to search will reveal evidence of a crime… Not only that, but the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone. The Patriot Act allows [agents] to serve self-written search warrants on financial institutions, and the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2004 in Orwellian language defines that to include in addition to banks, also delis, bodegas, restaurants, hotels, doctors' offices, lawyers’ offices, telecoms, HMOs, hospitals, casinos, jewelry dealers, automobile dealers, boat dealers, and that great financial institution to which we all would repose our fortunes, the post office.

As for paragraph two of the above, The IRS has for at least twenty five years or so had "pocket summons" that they would try and force on you if they thought that you would let them. If they,the summons, were accepted then you gave them the right to do what ever was wrote there upon them. If not accepted they were worthless .
 
In addition to the removal of our rights against illegal search & seizure & the requirement to have an actual warrant to violate a person's home or person, there's also the right to face your accuser and the right to know what you're accused of, as well as the right to an attorney & a swift & fair trial. We have numerous people sitting in detention in Gitmo and other camps around the world, imprisoned indefinitely without rights. Either they are prisoners of war, which means they have Geneva convention rights (& don't say they never signed the Convention. WE did.) or they are just international lawbreakers who get the same rights as anyone else in the world. (BTW, by definition, we haven't been in an actual war since the mid-40's)(Not to say that a lot of noble Americans haven't died for excellent & noble causes since then)(Am I using too many parentheses?). Think how outraged the entire nation would be if, say, Russia was holding Americans incommunicado indefinitely and without trial under SUSPICION of bad actions? I agree that the detainees, or at least most of them, are probably terrorists.

But this is America. "Probably" isn't supposed to be good enough.
 
My father use to call me a terrorist, way back then, also a subversive while my friends called me too conservative, almost right wing.
Beauty is on the eye . . .
Maybe you guys think all the kids in the Army are on the same level of understanding and patriotism, but there are many with other agendas besides doing what is right.
It is sickening to watch Rumsfeld´s carrier and dealings on the middle east, I have to understand why some guys are so ticked off with America.
Add that to a system of mind control through religion and anything can light a fuse already short.
But looking from where some people look it is easy to see Obama all the way down and close to those we fear and hate.
Obama is a regular American boy, don´t kid youselves. He will play hard ball to get America on top as much as the other guy.
I think McCain´s support group is out of chips on the International Poker Tour that world politics became.
It is not an easy election due to the issues and actual situation, more candidates are needed.
This morning I woke up and all but a few cities in the country had new elected mayors and Councilmen.
The towns with more than 200 thousand voters (mine is) will go to second round for confirmation, if a candidate did not get 50% plus one vote.
Some 130 million voters went to the electronic ballot and one city had a tie, the new mayor will be the elder of the two.
Got a few friends elected and both that matters the most to me, got ahead and will run important micro-regions where I live.
Next time I will submit my name for a coucilman position in a campaign starting January 09.
It is time to give back!
Heron
 
Bud- The Bill of Rights is part of the constitution. When a government tells you that you can have your rights of free speech as long as you exercise them in a fenced in area a mile from the event it reminds me of the guaranteed rights of free speech that our recent Olympic hosts were so proud of. Nobody showed up which they claimed meant that nobody had a problem. They're really big on wholesome stuff like milk too.

Equal rights aren't special rights and you learn to trust the quality of air in the mine by how well the canary is doing, not the miner.

>who in the heck voted on all these changes

That would be the Supreme court during the whole hanging chad thing- capture.

After that came the most egregious example of gerrymandering that our nation has ever seen- consolidate.

Finally came the continual beating of the "be very afraid" drum- control.

I am not suggesting collusion between terrorists and government but don't confuse terrorism and street theatre.
 
Meanwhile the oh so powerfull, resorcefull and mean AlQaida is back to old habits: small bomb here, a car bomb there in a patern only broken, allegedly, on 9/11 with a big bang!
Where is the enemy?
In the mirror!
Heron
 
Heron

What is going on in Brazil?

--------------------------------
FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
--------------------------------

At least eight "Barack Obamas" who borrowed the Democratic presidential candidate's name to run in Brazil's local elections lost.

The defeat of the so-called Obamas came in municipal elections on Sunday that selected mayors and council members in more than 5,000 Brazilian cities.

The elections saw the ruling Workers Party and allies of President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva make gains across the country.

Brazilian electoral law allows candidates to put any name on the ballot as long as it isn't offensive.

Some used the name Bin Laden, and others resorted to French soccer player Zinedine Zidane.
-----------------------------------------------
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2008/10/06/6998326-ap.html
 
When reading this thread it stuns me how fast the world changed.....

Once the country of freedom and free market mechanisms, the government a side aspect of the American life now the USA turns out to become a communist country where the government and the "state" can intrude on suspicious legal basis in everyone´s life and the the free market becomes a state-market, the government buying the banks that went down the currents of bankrupcy, betrayal and false promises with the money of the tax-payers. (Somehow Stalinistic for these who know history)

Funny thing: the rich people that paid the least taxes jackassed all the money and now the taxpayers in the US (and the rest of the world) have to pay for that desaster.

Why the heck do You not hang these banker/broker-bastards ? They still jerk around free, still earn a lot of money, still pay least taxes and will live in peace in their castle-homes.

What a strange world.......

Methinks the question McCain vs. Obama is the least problem the US has right now.......

Angelo
 
Funny thing: the rich people that paid the least taxes jackassed all the money...

Why the heck do You not hang these banker/broker-bastards ? They still jerk around free, still earn a lot of money, still pay least taxes and will live in peace in their castle-homes.

What a strange world......

Angelo

Angelo the rich have been doing this down the centuries in every country in the world. It is not a new phenomena.

Your sentiments are also not new.

Yes, always has been a strange world.
 
Well, You´re right but at least in Austria one of those criminal bankers submerging billions of Euros of the bank customers was sent to jail now and the entire executive board with him.

In all interviews he still insists of beeing not guilty but no chance for these guys: they will die in jail.

So my hope is: if You find independant judges and trial the whole bunch of bastards submerging the billiards of bucks (and the lawyers together with them) the world will become a nicer place..........

There IS hope !

Angelo
 
I am sure that is what the soldiers were saying when they stormed the Winter Place, or the mobs said as they stormed Versailles etc etc.

From time to time public outrage at events does explode, doesn't always sort the problem though.

There does seem to be a global perception that we are on the verge of catastrophe. I cannot help but feel that yes, times are critical, but also that news in our times is instantaneous and feeds upon itself, whipping up everyone into panic and frenzy, which isn't helpful.
 
From the humanistic standpoint I fully agree since I was raised in this way....

BUT: If You always have to pay the debts of the others and You find out that the democracy You seem to live in turns out to be a dictatorship of a group of few and "laws on purpose" constrain Your freedom one has to think of revolution.

If revolution is guided by some wise people and only few "radical dumbs" it sometimes turns a country/the world to the better (e.g. French revolution: as bloody as it was and as unjust sometimes it was a big leap nevertheless to the better. On the contrary a bad example: Russian communist revolution was "invented" by highly intelligent people with the best wishes and tools for a modern better world but turned to the worst by dictators. It was overthrown by wolves in sheep´s cotton).

We´ll see IF there will be a "revolution" now (and just treatment of the few people that brought us down in this economic decline by law-courts) or if we proceed with a "free market" of corrupcy with no rules. THEN the revolution once will be devastating...............

Angelo
 
Some candidates try to cash in with celebrities name to stay on the media for free!
Some have realy laughable names. Mostly the true politicians got elected.
There is one Lady here that takes the cake, she ran her campaign with a wrong number and only found out when she went to vote and her name did not appear when she punched the numbers she thought were right. She still had 6 votes!
The poor will live close to the rich to get some crumbles, every now and then they think it is not enough and throw a revolution, very often making things worst.
The leftist party thrives on that speech, them and us, pitching rich against poor.
One time down here they elected a famous rhino called Cacareco (old and often broken stuff) just to protest against bad politicians (this was over 45 years ago) nothing new in the front . . .
Heron
 
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