Dominator Gyroplane For Sale

The first vehicle I ever bought to deliver products for my business was a Pinto. I drove it 'til it died on the expressway on the way to a customer's office. I removed the tag (no VIN NUMBERS BACK THEN) and left it on the side of the road.

Fond memories of that venerable vehicle!

Tommy
 
I took a serious look at Matt's gyro, and felt it was a very good deal because it was 1-already built! and 2- one of a kind. The leading kit models that could come close to it would cost more without any accounting for your build time.

I decided not to buy because I didn't have a place to put it- it is tall, and I have no gyro flight experience.

When it comes to sales, it takes only one customer to set the market, and there will be one eventually. Because I mean, who's ever heard of gyroplanes?
 
@drtomcor.....that is my point....the market is very small. The wait can be very long...no matter how great the gyro is. If Matt wants to move forward the asking price has to make all the tire-kickers stop kicking and make offers. A fair deal is when both parties agree on the deal. A great deal is only one-sided. My Haney on Green Acres enjoyed making great deals....and was Mr. Douglas ever happy with his side of the deal? I don't think Mr. Haney ever made a fair deal...
 
...If Matt wants to move forward the asking price has to make all the tire-kickers stop kicking and make offers...

Albert, they'll also stop kicking when someone serious buys it out from under them.

It's not unusual for used gyros to sell well below the value of a new, unassembled kit, but most people are in a hurry to sell once they decide to make a change. If Matt isn't in a hurry, I don't know why he'd drop the price. That machine is worth every bit of what he's asking, and more.
 
I still want to know why he would sell it at all ?

He just won't tell us ! I just don't know why he won't . It's a secret !
 
Albert, they'll also stop kicking when someone serious buys it out from under them.

It's not unusual for used gyros to sell well below the value of a new, unassembled kit, but most people are in a hurry to sell once they decide to make a change. If Matt isn't in a hurry, I don't know why he'd drop the price. That machine is worth every bit of what he's asking, and more.

I liken (sp?) the world of gyros to the world of motorcycles. You can buy a new Harley Davidson for $20,000+ or you can buy a Yamaha that looks identical to it for $8,000. Difference is, people know the difference.......

.....besides you're more likely to pick up chicks when you own a Hog!
 
and if the new baby is a boy, don't name it Bensen...ya know I wish you all the best...you're a great guy with a great gyro!

Hey Albert, I think you're mixing up Matt and I on this one - I'm the one expecting a baby, not Matt.

For my $.02, I think Matt's asking price is fine for a few reasons. One is because he's in absolutely no hurry and in fact isn't even entirely committed to selling the machine right now. Secondly is because it isn't carved in stone! If someone is interested they should make him an offer, worst thing that can happen is Matt rejects it.

I agree, Albert, that the market for this gyro is a small slice of the already small gyro market as a whole but the world is big and the Internet is big, and with unlimited time...
 
I liken (sp?) the world of gyros to the world of motorcycles. You can buy a new Harley Davidson for $20,000+ or you can buy a Yamaha that looks identical to it for $8,000. Difference is, people know the difference.......

.....besides you're more likely to pick up chicks when you own a Hog!

BMWs' pick up women!

( just a joke....all you Harley guys....calm down )
 
I agree with everyone who has seen this gyro....it is a great gyro. It is just the market is so small, that is all. With respect to the baby, I just wanted to put that out there about if it is a boy don't name it Bensen...Matt has been aloof about his reason so I threw that bait out and Matt didn't bite. Just doin' some fishin' like the others have done. If anything, the pot I stirred moved Matt into giving a lot more specs, moved many, including me to saying it is a great gyro. I looked at the listing on Barnstormers this morning...two listings below is for a Beech Muskateer (4-place) for about $1k more.
So, let me go on record on last time, this gyro has all the features I would like to have. I wouldn't change a thing. It is one great machine. Ya know, Bensen isn't a bad name...if that is the reason....hehe
 
Here is my take on the price of the gyro since we have turned a simple for sale listing into a 5 page thread......

I think the price is both fair and correct.

You would have close to or over the asking price invested if you were to set off to build a simular ship. It wouldn't matter if you were building a new aircommand, Dominator, Butterfly, Genesis, etc.... And you would still have to build it and paint it and have it inspected and test flown etc....

Alot of people who buy Dominators new, buy them already built and ready to fly. I have not spoke to RFD in months, even years, about pricing... but last time I did, a " ultrawhite " model, which is simular but with the smaller frame and simple instrumentation and 503 engine was running over 15 grand. Buy that and upgrade the gearbox and rotorhead and pre rotator and engine and so on and you would be easily over 20-23 grand. And you will still need to tune and test it and have it inspected etc.... And no offense to RFD, but often the detailing that goes into the small details, such as fuel line routing, paint quality, wiring, etc... can and usually is better when done by a individual builder rather than by RFD.

Is 19 grand alot for a single place gyro? yes. compared to a 20 year old aircommand lowrider, or a plans built gyrobee. But like Matt pointed out, is 90 grand too much for a two place gyro like a Xenon? Apparently not as every one that made it over here sold quickly and there has been people waiting for years for more to be imported. It comes down not to is 19 grand too much for a single place, it comes down to is 19 grand too much for a nearly new single place DOMINATOR.... And for that to be answered all it takes is for someone who wants to buy a dominator to compair the costs of buying a new one verses a used one, and searching the used market to find the best deal. I know of no other dominators for sale right now, so Matts machine is the only used choice right now.

The fact that Matts machine is "custom", or " hot rod " isn't really much of anything. It is basically a two place Dominator airframe with just one seat. The two place dominator frame is taller and longer and allows use of a larger prop ( which means more thrust and better efficiency ) All the parts are off the shelf parts, and you can easily order or build another gyro just like it if you choose to.

A fact no one has picked up on, is other than blades and some airframe mods, this machine could be made into a two place if the desire existed. Extend the front keel and redo the cheek plates, get a longer hub bar and this could easily be a single place with a jumpseat.


I know that some people will say or think any used single place over some number is too much.... that number might be 15 grand, 12 grand, 10 grand, 5 grand.... ? Everyone will have their idea of what they are willing to spend and what they feel is acceptable. But at the same time, in my opinion, as long as the price isn't wildly out of line... such as priced as high or higher than what it costs new, or priced close to new but clearly it shows lack of maintance or care or has high hours and needs attention..... a price close to what new would cost is in line.

The value some people put on things with comparisons to other things sometimes doesn't add up either. Sure for 19 grand you could find a decent Cessna 150 and own a certified two place airplane. 19 grand will buy you many experimental two place planes, such as a Titan like I own, or a flightstar or even kitfox / avid flyer, etc.... But none of those are gyros... It would be like saying the 17 grand someone is asking for their used Bently Pontoon boat is too much because for the same 17 grand you could buy a brand new Volkswagon jetta or Toyota Corrolla.

And what about airplanes.... Why would someone spend close to 100 thousand dollars for some of the LSA offerings when for 20-30 grand can buy a LSA legal experimental such as a nice Titan or Kitfox that has the same build quality and performance numbers...? Why do people spend 20+ grand on a new top of the line Harley Davidson when you can find a new 2 year old holdover Honda VTX or Yamaha Roadstar for half the price? It all comes down to what the buyer wants, not what is the most they can buy for the least amount of money.

Back to the Dominator, I have stated a few times before that I have considered selling my machine. I feel I am somewhat simular to Matt in this reguard..... We both own what we consider our dream gyros. We both own our gyros free and clear. Neither of us incurrs much ongoing expense in owning our gyros ( annual inspections, minimal hangar fees, cheap taxes ) Neither of us are hard up for a sale. I can't speak directly for Matt, but for me, I wouldn't want to give my ship away for a huge loss. When I consider what I would ask for my ship I consider what it would cost to duplicate another just like it, then deduct a fair amount for the fact that mine is not new and has 200+ hours of flight time on it. I know you could not duplicate my gyro for any less than 30 grand. If I were to list mine I would not want to take any less than 24-25 grand for it. Matts gyro would likely cost you 20+ grand to duplicate, and has almost no time on it at all, priced at 19 grand ( which is a ASKING price... I would assume you could whittle him down a little off that ) sounds very fair and inline with what I would ask if it were my machine to sell.

Yes, the economy sucks, and the sport seems somewhat stale lately. I am sure it would take some time for either of us to sell our birds. But they would sell.

Chris, why Matt is selling is pretty much no secret at this point. His gyro is single place, and a full open design. Great for local flights and shorter cross country flights in warmer weather by himself. But he did recently earn his fixed wing pilots certificate... he is married and his wife would like to fly with him..... and he lives in chicago, where is it colder than a witches tit for several months out of the year. He is listing his gyro to try to get some funds towards buying a airplane so he and his wife can do some flying together. He was playing a game with us by making it a " secret " but that is what he wants to do. It is simular to why I keep considering selling mine.... I could sell my gyro and sell my plane and use the money to buy a 4 place plane to take my kids flying with me, or buy another fast hotrod like the Vans RV-4 I used to own. I already own a 2 place plane along with my gyro and that is mainly the difference with me and Matt, why I haven't listed my gyro.... I know I would never be able to replace my gyro with a simular or better gyro for the money I would get by selling mine, and since I already have a plane, I just keep shelving the idea and just keep flying the stuff I already got.

Anyway long post..... but that is my two cents
 
I looked at the listing on Barnstormers this morning...two listings below is for a Beech Muskateer (4-place) for about $1k more.

I don't think I know you personally, but I have to disagree with what your implying.

A 20 grand Beech is not a gyro.

People looking to buy a gyro are not cross shopping 4 seat airplanes.

And what would a new Beech with less than 50 hours cost? Matts gyro is basically a new gyro with less than 50 hours. Not a wore out relic of a airplane with a tired engine and who know how much corrosion inside the wings and any other hidden defects.

If you feel airplanes are only worth 20 grand, then what do you say to all the other airplane sellers who have their Piper Warriors or Cessna 172s or even Cirus SR-22s for sale at prices above 20 grand? Do you think their planes are not worth their asking prices because there is a old Beech on Barnstormers for 20 grand?

I think I understand what your trying to imply, that gyros aren't real aircraft like the Beech is.... and if you can buy a beech for 20 grand or some other certified 2 place for 14 grand, then the gyro, because it isn't a real aircraft and is just a little toy, should be no more than 5 or 6 grand period. Is that what your more or less saying?

Cause if so..... that is just like saying to the world, that anyone considering paying over 5 grand for a motorcycle is silly because to pay the 18 grand HD charges for a Road king can buy you a new Honda Civic or a used Mercedes Benz or a used Chevy 2500 with the duramax diesel...

do you see my point? Cause I think I see yours and don't agree with it, not at the price point Matt is asking for his gyro ( I feel somewhat the same as you when it comes to 70-100 grand gyros, but also feel the same with 60 grand trucks and 100 grand cars and many other things )
 
Boy, Matt is getting a lot of press from this.....

Ok....let me explain the airplane viewpoint vs. gyro.......again, one last time, Matt has a great gyro, one I would love to have, it has everything I would want in a gyro...

If a person is going to begin flying lessons as Sport Pilot or Private Pilot he will train most likely in an airplane. This person will invest x-dollars and time. Now, this person has to decide what the next investment will be....renting the airplane he trained in or now finding a gyro CFI at his hourly rates to learn to fly a gyro and either use his Private to fly a gyro or get the gyro CFI to sign him off to fly a gyro. At this point a lot of money and time has been invested and either this person is going to buy a gyro of some type, most likely a single place or think about his family and look for an airplane in which to be able to share the experience of flight. If I am a betting man, I'd say this person will look for an airplane that at a minimum will seat two, fly 100 mph, day or night and have a 350 mile range between fill ups. A good airplane can be found for under $20k. Fixed costs are about the same. Hanger rent is one. Insurance on $20k airplane is about $4-5 hundred dollars a year. Depending on what you buy the annual inspection cost could be under $1k a year. Those are the facts because I have bought and sold airplanes in this range and I have two gyro's. I can't share the gyro experience with family...it is just for me. The airplane is for all others who want to fly with me. Someone already said it, Matt is selling the gyro to share the flying experience with his wife...it is a better use of the money.....
 
Dude, each and every one of us who flys gyros and did it via legal venues with a CFI all had the same choices as you propose. Again I say if a person wants to FLY GYROS.... he learns to fly a gyro and either builds one or purchases one already built. He doesn't cross shop airplanes.

For the same 20 grand a person could take his family to England for vacation or on some kind of awesome cruise. Or buy a sweet RV camping trailer and take the family camping every weekend. 20 grand would buy Mom and Dad and the kids ATV's or dirtbikes and the family could go do that.... the list could be quite long....

Your just saying that you feel if a person has 20 grand burning a hole in their pocket, they should buy the airplane instead of the gyro...... Fine, you go do that. Meanwhile, some people want a GYRO not a airplane and like everything else in this world, gyros cost money. And in some cases, the better ones cost as much as airplanes.
 
Albert, I'm pretty curious as to why you keep commenting on this subject. Do you want to buy Matt's gyro? Then have it out with Matt personally. If you're truly not interested, I don't understand why you're making a federal case on pricing for something you're not even going to buy. I understand your reputation for "frugality" as Matt put it, but really, what's your motive here? Why does it matter so much to you what Matt does with gyro v. fixed wing, how much he prices his gyro for, or anything else he wants to do with his time?
 
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Excellent Angie!
 
If I am a betting man, I'd say this person will look for an airplane that at a minimum will seat two, fly 100 mph, day or night and have a 350 mile range between fill ups. A good airplane can be found for under $20k. Fixed costs are about the same. Hanger rent is one. Insurance on $20k airplane is about $4-5 hundred dollars a year. Depending on what you buy the annual inspection cost could be under $1k a year.

You pretty much described my airplane, but I only paid $15K for it.
It's a 1948 Cessna 140.
 

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Angie...I am responding to those that are also making their points since their points are directed at me. I think everyone is in agreement, including me, about the quality of the gyro. Move past that. All I have said, many times now, is for some, not all, when it comes to flying...any flying machine, if a person has a choice, that person will most likely choose to fly something in which could be shared...that is all. If Adam spent money to get a sport pilot license would you not want to fly with him? Don't you think Adam would want to take you flying? Now, if it came down to selling a single place gyro for a two place airplane, what do you think would happen? That is all I am saying. At some point the cost of a gyro becomes equal to the cost of an airplane. It is a very small market for this gyro...that is all. I can't understand all this hoopla...geez. For the last time, I am not interested in the gyro, although it is a great gyro. I hope Matt is able to sell it for a price which is acceptable to him in a timely manor. It is just a small market, that's all......
 
thanks Gryomike...you make my point....and you still fly a gyro also, correct? I know the C-140 is cozy with two, but I know you enjoy every minute you get to share flying and flying in a classic airplane with someone. I had a single place airplane once. Then one day my young son said he would like to learn to fly. And I couldn't take him in a single place airplane. I sold the airplane a month later and used the money to fund my son's lessons. He earned his private license before leaving High School. Money well spent...there is always great deals on gyro's and airplanes if one looks.
 
All I have said, many times now, is for some, not all, when it comes to flying...any flying machine, if a person has a choice, that person will most likely choose to fly something in which could be shared...that is all. .

Albert,

You are certainly welcome to your opinion. And you are free to feel or think anything you want. It sounds to me like you don't really have a greater love for flying "rotorcraft" than you do for flying a fixed wing. While that is certainly OK and there are lots more people that are into flying fixed wings than there are people into flying rotorcraft, that attitude is not shared by "most" people on this forum. This forum (for the most part) is made up of people who have a special place in their heart for flying rotorcraft and so they probably tend to look at this different than you do.

I also think your statement above is off the mark. You believe that most people, given the choice would prefer to fly a two seat aircraft. If you will look a little more carefully at the world of recreational rotorcraft, you will see that the vast majority of aircraft are single seat machines. Is that because there are no 2 seat models available? Absolutely Not!!! There are lots of reasons why most people choose to fly single seat machines. Following are some of the reasons I can think of:
1- Less expensive to purchase
2- Less expensive to fly
3- Lighter and so they are generally more maneuverable when flying
4- Lighter means they fly slower and land easier and can take off shorter
5- Most single place machines are open frame and many people prefer that experience, just like many people prefer to ride a motorcycle or drive a convertible.
6- Flying a single place machine limits the liability you could otherwise have when flying another person in a two place machine

While I agree that most people would like to be able to share their flying experience with others, that desire is often over weighed by other considerations. If you will just look at what people choose to fly, the facts speak for themselves. I don't believe you are as in tune with and think the same as the average rotorcraft enthusiast that is on this forum. That's my opinion.

We still welcome you to be a part of us. It takes all kinds of people to make a group. But your comments lead me to believe you do not view this sport the same way most of us do.
 
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