Here is my take on the price of the gyro since we have turned a simple for sale listing into a 5 page thread......
I think the price is both fair and correct.
You would have close to or over the asking price invested if you were to set off to build a simular ship. It wouldn't matter if you were building a new aircommand, Dominator, Butterfly, Genesis, etc.... And you would still have to build it and paint it and have it inspected and test flown etc....
Alot of people who buy Dominators new, buy them already built and ready to fly. I have not spoke to RFD in months, even years, about pricing... but last time I did, a " ultrawhite " model, which is simular but with the smaller frame and simple instrumentation and 503 engine was running over 15 grand. Buy that and upgrade the gearbox and rotorhead and pre rotator and engine and so on and you would be easily over 20-23 grand. And you will still need to tune and test it and have it inspected etc.... And no offense to RFD, but often the detailing that goes into the small details, such as fuel line routing, paint quality, wiring, etc... can and usually is better when done by a individual builder rather than by RFD.
Is 19 grand alot for a single place gyro? yes. compared to a 20 year old aircommand lowrider, or a plans built gyrobee. But like Matt pointed out, is 90 grand too much for a two place gyro like a Xenon? Apparently not as every one that made it over here sold quickly and there has been people waiting for years for more to be imported. It comes down not to is 19 grand too much for a single place, it comes down to is 19 grand too much for a nearly new single place DOMINATOR.... And for that to be answered all it takes is for someone who wants to buy a dominator to compair the costs of buying a new one verses a used one, and searching the used market to find the best deal. I know of no other dominators for sale right now, so Matts machine is the only used choice right now.
The fact that Matts machine is "custom", or " hot rod " isn't really much of anything. It is basically a two place Dominator airframe with just one seat. The two place dominator frame is taller and longer and allows use of a larger prop ( which means more thrust and better efficiency ) All the parts are off the shelf parts, and you can easily order or build another gyro just like it if you choose to.
A fact no one has picked up on, is other than blades and some airframe mods, this machine could be made into a two place if the desire existed. Extend the front keel and redo the cheek plates, get a longer hub bar and this could easily be a single place with a jumpseat.
I know that some people will say or think any used single place over some number is too much.... that number might be 15 grand, 12 grand, 10 grand, 5 grand.... ? Everyone will have their idea of what they are willing to spend and what they feel is acceptable. But at the same time, in my opinion, as long as the price isn't wildly out of line... such as priced as high or higher than what it costs new, or priced close to new but clearly it shows lack of maintance or care or has high hours and needs attention..... a price close to what new would cost is in line.
The value some people put on things with comparisons to other things sometimes doesn't add up either. Sure for 19 grand you could find a decent Cessna 150 and own a certified two place airplane. 19 grand will buy you many experimental two place planes, such as a Titan like I own, or a flightstar or even kitfox / avid flyer, etc.... But none of those are gyros... It would be like saying the 17 grand someone is asking for their used Bently Pontoon boat is too much because for the same 17 grand you could buy a brand new Volkswagon jetta or Toyota Corrolla.
And what about airplanes.... Why would someone spend close to 100 thousand dollars for some of the LSA offerings when for 20-30 grand can buy a LSA legal experimental such as a nice Titan or Kitfox that has the same build quality and performance numbers...? Why do people spend 20+ grand on a new top of the line Harley Davidson when you can find a new 2 year old holdover Honda VTX or Yamaha Roadstar for half the price? It all comes down to what the buyer wants, not what is the most they can buy for the least amount of money.
Back to the Dominator, I have stated a few times before that I have considered selling my machine. I feel I am somewhat simular to Matt in this reguard..... We both own what we consider our dream gyros. We both own our gyros free and clear. Neither of us incurrs much ongoing expense in owning our gyros ( annual inspections, minimal hangar fees, cheap taxes ) Neither of us are hard up for a sale. I can't speak directly for Matt, but for me, I wouldn't want to give my ship away for a huge loss. When I consider what I would ask for my ship I consider what it would cost to duplicate another just like it, then deduct a fair amount for the fact that mine is not new and has 200+ hours of flight time on it. I know you could not duplicate my gyro for any less than 30 grand. If I were to list mine I would not want to take any less than 24-25 grand for it. Matts gyro would likely cost you 20+ grand to duplicate, and has almost no time on it at all, priced at 19 grand ( which is a ASKING price... I would assume you could whittle him down a little off that ) sounds very fair and inline with what I would ask if it were my machine to sell.
Yes, the economy sucks, and the sport seems somewhat stale lately. I am sure it would take some time for either of us to sell our birds. But they would sell.
Chris, why Matt is selling is pretty much no secret at this point. His gyro is single place, and a full open design. Great for local flights and shorter cross country flights in warmer weather by himself. But he did recently earn his fixed wing pilots certificate... he is married and his wife would like to fly with him..... and he lives in chicago, where is it colder than a witches tit for several months out of the year. He is listing his gyro to try to get some funds towards buying a airplane so he and his wife can do some flying together. He was playing a game with us by making it a " secret " but that is what he wants to do. It is simular to why I keep considering selling mine.... I could sell my gyro and sell my plane and use the money to buy a 4 place plane to take my kids flying with me, or buy another fast hotrod like the Vans RV-4 I used to own. I already own a 2 place plane along with my gyro and that is mainly the difference with me and Matt, why I haven't listed my gyro.... I know I would never be able to replace my gyro with a simular or better gyro for the money I would get by selling mine, and since I already have a plane, I just keep shelving the idea and just keep flying the stuff I already got.
Anyway long post..... but that is my two cents