It"s a myth..

Nicolas, can you tell us what you have done to prevent low-G rollover from prop torque?

There is evidence that this problem was as much to blame for Pee We Judge's death in a Wallis at Farnborough as was PPO.

Thanks.

Doug, Its all in the tail/Engine combination. Sizes, positions, angles.

On that matter... i did not invent anything... just used available knowledge and toke the time to test and apply it.

a step further.......... electronics can help to cancel it even more!!

as far as for Pee We Judge's death my PERSONAL opinion is that the drag of the pod was to much for the tail to hold it pointing in the flight path. Yes.... it started as a low g roll over. I dont think there was a PPO from the low qual. clip i have seen. Any pitching was a result from front area drag.

if he had a much bigger tail it would have given him some seconds to react... preferably by turning and loading the rotors.
 
Well, what you described is what my gyro has always done for the past 25 years. ....Even in 30 mph gusty winds, I don't have to work harder than in CLT machines I've flown. I'm not busy correcting flight attitude or worried about bunting over. It's a pleasure to fly in all conditions, without a hint on working any harder.

Dennis,

With all due respect, I think your hours of experience are working against you on this one.

Your spinal cord is likely doing the job of stabilization without bothering your conscious mind about it.

A new pilot or a seasoned FW pilot coming to gyros will not have these built-in talents when flying a classic low rider and will likely experience the described workload until they build a few hundred hours in a classic low rider.

.

.
 
Dennis,

With all due respect, I think your hours of experience are working against you on this one.

Your spinal cord is likely doing the job of stabilization without bothering your conscious mind about it.

A new pilot or a seasoned FW pilot coming to gyros will not have these built-in talents when flying a classic low rider and will likely experience the described workload until they build a few hundred hours in a classic low rider.

Tim, thank you for your opinion, and I respect it.

And, you are correct to a point, in my opinion. My skills do allow me to overcome the piloting of aircraft where a newcomer may not. But, I was once a newcomer too, and I flew the same as a newcomer would have. My skills also tell me what is the difference between a flyable aircraft and a non-flyable aircraft, and what a persons skills need to be to pilot it.

Please, let me say this again;

I agree that a CLT gyro has advantages in stability, especially for a student. I agree that all new gyros would benefit from being CLT, although I do not agree with the method in design that CLT is achieved. There are too many other drawbacks, but its the best you got for now.

Please, let me say this again;

What I do not agree with is misleading new people to the extreme that all HCLT gyros that we have been flying over the past 60 years are all bad, and only a matter of when they will kill you. I agree that there are some that would, so class them differently.

If you train the minds of new people to the facts, and not teach them by just overwhelming negativism, we will have a better breed of future designers.
 
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Nicolas and Giorgos it has been a pleasure to see that video and to see what is possible on your machines.

Also to see the progress you have made with the prerotator. Yes a couple of good shots there of it in action.

My son has been interested in these two machines since we both saw you first clip of the initial test flights. Seems to be very stable machine indeed and I saw a couple of maneuvers done I haven't seen in any other gyro videos.

Impressive and good to watch, thank you for posting these for us all to see.
 
ok....... let me put it simpler..... there may be times ( or moments) that some one wished was on a CLT machine. on the other hand i dont think that anyone will wish he was on an HTL machine.

I agree that HTL (to a limit) can be made as safe with an HS in the prop wash. one the other hand.... there is a simpler way.
 
Dennis,

With all due respect, I think your hours of experience are working against you on this one.

Your spinal cord is likely doing the job of stabilization without bothering your conscious mind about it.

A new pilot or a seasoned FW pilot coming to gyros will not have these built-in talents when flying a classic low rider and will likely experience the described workload until they build a few hundred hours in a classic low rider.

.

.


I agree :first:
 
Nicolas and Giorgos it has been a pleasure to see that video and to see what is possible on your machines.

Also to see the progress you have made with the prerotator. Yes a couple of good shots there of it in action.

My son has been interested in these two machines since we both saw you first clip of the initial test flights. Seems to be very stable machine indeed and I saw a couple of maneuvers done I haven't seen in any other gyro videos.

Impressive and good to watch, thank you for posting these for us all to see.

Thanks Leigh
 
Thank You

Thank You

Tim, thank you for your opinion, and I respect it.

And, you are correct to a point, in my opinion. My skills do allow me to overcome the piloting of aircraft where a newcomer may not. But, I was once a newcomer too, and I flew the same as a newcomer would have. My skills also tell me what is the difference between a flyable aircraft and a non-flyable aircraft, and what a persons skills need to be to pilot it.

Please, let me say this again;

I agree that a CLT gyro has advantages in stability, especially for a student. I agree that all new gyros would benefit from being CLT, although I do not agree with the method in design that CLT is achieved. There are too many other drawbacks, but its the best you got for now.

Please, let me say this again;

What I do not agree with is misleading new people to the extreme that all HCLT gyros that we have been flying over the past 60 years are all bad, and only a matter of when they will kill you. I agree that there are some that would, so class them differently.

If you train the minds of new people to the facts, and not teach them by just overwhelming negativism, we will have a better breed of future designers.

I am so grateful for this post of yours. It explains everything I have posted about here with regard to all the hype scaring us newbies out of flying gyros altogether. I just wish someone would post a list of the good,the bad, and the ugly of them.

On another note, I am about to become the owner of a B8M less Rotorhead and Rotors. It is powered by a McCullough 65 HP and I am wondering if anything, what has to be done to this machine to make it one of the safer ones out there. Im not interested in High performance or blistering speed at this time. ( figure that will come later after I get a handle on flying gyros). I am gathering more information as I read here, even from some that I have had pointed discussions with, so here I am, asking instead of telling.:tape:
 
What's the big deal?

What's the big deal?

Been there. Done that.

Do people realize that Xenons have been performing like this from the beginning?

Everything that was done in this video and more.

Why the shocker that someone can design machines like this?
 
No shock Tom...unless it's sticker shock at the price of let us say...the Xenon!!!

And when will they be available as a 51% kit in the US that one can build under supervision? It is quite a complex gyro.

We all would like a capable single/dual gyro at a price that most of us can afford that is safe/stable and as maneuverable as this one is.
 
Hey guys?
This is fairly new you know?
For those on the trail for long years, the mods came after lots of work.
Now with all the info available and experiments made at great cost by many, including lives, we can more confortably discuss, talk and ultimately design better machines.
Some still resist and are more traditionalist, some, like myself, came aboard talking about a machine that was not in existence, even though they are now.
For me some 8 years and unthinkable sum went under the gyro bridge.
Thank you all for participating and for those who carryed the torch up to us, a BIG THANKS!
Heron
 
Been there. Done that.

Do people realize that Xenons have been performing like this from the beginning?

Everything that was done in this video and more.

Why the shocker that someone can design machines like this?
You have really gone off the deep end this time!
That must be some wicked sh!t you're snortin'!
Next you'll be telling us a BMW touring bike can do everything a moto-cross bike can. Totally two different things designed with two different missions.
I have great admiration for the Xenon gyro, nothing against it, but it is entirely a different thing from what we are discussing here.

BTW, your whole post is full of crap!:mad:
 
Spam

Spam

Been there. Done that.

Do people realize that Xenons have been performing like this from the beginning?

Everything that was done in this video and more.

Why the shocker that someone can design machines like this?

Blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah
 

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The truth hurts

The truth hurts

Pete,

Your signature says it all "The truth shall piss you off" and it did.

Just stating the facts. But you would know better, having never flown a Xenon.

Mmmmm, which post if really full of crap. First hand experience or pontificating on the ground.
 
Tom,
Xenon looks like a well thought machine.. a step forward than old designs.

one maneuver that the xenon can not do is the one that the gyro stands on its tail orbiting with its tail pointing in the center of the orbid... bringing the nose higher and higher up until it starts sliding back wards and then the gyro yews into flightpath and recover. 6:45 min in the video as well as at 8:13

Xenon does not do this ... not because it may lack stability but because for this maneuver you need a powerful ruder in the prop wash to Holt it there....... xenon doesn't have any (in the prop wash that is).

as Pete said.... 2 deferent kind of machines.
 
Cool

Cool

Nicolas,

By the way ... your pre-rotator looks awesome!

Tom
 
Tom,
Xenon looks like a well thought machine.. a step forward than old designs.

one maneuver that the xenon can not do is the one that the gyro stands on its tail orbiting with its tail pointing in the center of the orbid... bringing the nose higher and higher up until it starts sliding back wards and then the gyro yews into flightpath and recover. 6:45 min in the video as well as at 8:13

Xenon does not do this ... not because it may lack stability but because for this maneuver you need a powerful ruder in the prop wash to Holt it there....... xenon doesn't have any (in the prop wash that is).

as Pete said.... 2 deferent kind of machines.

Nicolas
Unfortunately, those two maneuvers ( you can orbit just with the rudder) cannot be clearly seen on the video. Too far and you can have the impression that it’s a normal turn. Ok blame the video cameraman (Giorgos) and your cheap camcorder.... excuses excuses...
Giorgos.
 
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