rake vs dropped keel

WHY

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miami,oklahoma
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Ercoupe and Cessna 150, 152, 172, 140, Aeronca,7ac, Citabria,Chief,Piper PA11,PA12
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Having watched closely the development of the gyro that N. Karaolides (Aviomania) has done in Cyprus and seen the end results, I wonder why more of the "raked keel" designs are not seen as opposed to the "dropped Keel) version. It appears to give a better aerodynamic profile of the pilot (slightly) reclined as opposed to the "kitchen chair" seating with most dropped keel design. Is the raked keel design more difficult to build or more expensive to build or is it just that it takes time for a mind set to change. And as for a ultralight design, I don't know how you can beat Chuck"s design but no one seems to have picked up on it ??????

Anyone want to venture some guesses ?

Tony
 
Tony,
I for one like the raked keel, ever since I saw it on the MTO3 . There are a lot of Bensens and Brocks that came with the Mac out there. the drop keel is the most cost effective way to add a prop larger than 52inches to the existing gyro. It only requires the keel to be cut into without changing any holes, only the cluster plates and adding the holes to the bottom of the cluster plate and the rear keel. The seat and controls all remain intack and the nose wheel is extended. I have been talking with some friends in our club and a few people I met here on the forum. I think my next gyro will be a "Bensen Xtream" which will be a slanted or raked keel. It just takes time and money.
 
Hi Mark

I see your point on the ''easist way to convert to a longer prop". I saw a couple of "pods" for sale earlier, I think were priced at $250, looked like they were custom designed for a raked keel, looks like even a pod from a fixed wing Quicksilver might work well, as always, less drag equals more performance.

Tony
 
It appears to give a better aerodynamic profile of the pilot (slightly) reclined as opposed to the "kitchen chair" seating with most dropped keel design.
I flew on of them slopen seated things once [ Mitchs butterfly] and kept slipn forward.
A square uprite seat is best if your go'n to throw it about abit, or if your go'n to be init till the fuel runs out. [ 5 hours]
 
Birdy, now that's being agricultural/practical, got to know people like sexy even if they do slide forwards all the time.

Just kidding guys. I know the F16 jocks are semi-reclined and that is an orgasmic looking machine. But then they do pull some serious G's and that happens to be a good position for that horsing around.

That new gyro in Austria looks great but if I spent any amount of time like that I would probably go to sleep. If... I could sleep after spending that much cash on it. That is the super sports car of the gyro world

Nicolas's machine does look good and I know that he is making serious efforts to get it out on the market. I look forward to seeing some of those flying as both the single and the dual version look like a really nice flying machines.

As for MisFit. That is a seriously pretty little jewel. Beautiful build. My son and I really did admire that at B days. Enjoyed the tail art as well, cheeky isn't she.;)
 
Here's the original rake keel machine...
KWTaxiBack.jpg

KWTakeoff.jpg
 
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Now that is shirtsleeve flying.

No helmet, but I did note that the gentleman was wearing a tie.

Bit then again one would expect that from a Wing Commander after all.
 
It appears to give a better aerodynamic profile of the pilot (slightly) reclined as opposed to the "kitchen chair" seating with most dropped keel design.
I flew on of them slopen seated things once [ Mitchs butterfly] and kept slipn forward.
A square uprite seat is best if your go'n to throw it about abit, or if your go'n to be init till the fuel runs out. [ 5 hours]

Birdy, simply reclining the back-rest doesn't do it. Additionally also the seat must tilt backwards. Then you are fixed in the seat like a baby in in a Maxi-Cosy :D

Downside is, that visibility is somewhat obstructed.

Kai.
 
Pilots of high performance sailplanes are almost flat on their backs and manage to tolerate many hours in that position during contests. A sailplane wouldn’t be high performance with kitchen chair seat.

Jet fighter pilots are in a semi-reclining position because the body can better tolerate “G” forces in that position. Blood stays in their heads instead of going to their feet.

Uncomfortable seats can be designed whether upright or reclining.
 
please share your experience.

please share your experience.

I found in my motorcycle streamliner that the extremely supine seating made it more difficult to sense lean and I had to become more visual for the clues as to my angle of bank.

I felt it was because my head moved relatively less as the motorcycle banked compared to a more upright motorcycle streamliner that I had ridden.

My head was about 6 inches above the vertical center of gravity. The other Streamliner had my head almost 18 inches above the vertical center of gravity. A typical motorcycle might have my head 36 inches above the tire contact patch.

As I write this I wonder if an aircraft with the pilots head closer to the vertical center of gravity would make it harder to sense bank.

I remember feeling somewhat lost in the Snowbird as compared to the Predator or the SparrowHawk. At the time I felt it was because of less visual reference with the Snow Bird. I feel that my head is much closer to the vertical center of gravity in the Snow Bird and therefore moves in less of an arc as the aircraft rolls.

I may have had a similar experience in a Magni as I touched down the left main before the right.

I would be grateful for other pilot’s sharing their antidotal experience with this.

Thank you, Vance
 
The reclining position in sailplanes is so comfortable it often induces sleep especially up high were the air is thin.

The only detriment I see is losing some visibility directly ahead and below. No big deal.

Dino
 
I raced on asphalt ovals, twice a week for 3 years. My personal preferance, was a very upright seating arrangement, much like a sprintcar. I think it helped with my sucess, as many other drivers were noticably reclined, Earnhardt style. I could 'feel' the car better.
Gyros might be the same deal...
 
Downside is, that visibility is somewhat obstructed.
Thats the first thing i thought in Mitchs machine.
" bloobyell, id look like a frign hunchback after a day lookn for moos in this thing"
Sorry Mitch, didnt i mention that? ;)
 
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