Accident

[WayneNorris]

I don't know if this is the proper forum, but I know most of you know the colorful pilot, David Holmes. I have enjoyed his keen sense of humor in his postings here. We wish you a speedy recovery, David!

Troy police tell WSFA 12 News that David Holmes, 68 of Brundidge was flying an experimental aircraft called a gyrocopter last night. Around 7:00pm near Pike Liberal Arts School the aircraft struck a guy wire on a cell phone tower and crashed in a wooded area.

Holmes was being treated at Troy Regional Medical Center for none life-threatening injuries and was later airlifted to UAB for surgery on his leg. Holmes also sustained injuries on his ankle and back.

[ToddP]

I wish David a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing him back here on the forum. Although it sounds like he has some serious injuries, I'm relieved to hear nothing is life threatening.

[Harry_S.]

Thank you Wayne, for that news.

Good golly David...what are we gonna do with you...if it's not one thing, it's another. I guess I'm gonna have to come up there and give you a whatfer.

Wayne, if you hear where David is located, could you post the address here on the forum?! I, along with others, would like to send a card...with a few words of *encouragement* for his comfort and edification.

Thankfully, he is still with us.

.

[chuter]

David, wishing you a speedy recovery!

You are either the luckiest or the most unlucky man to ever fly a gyro!!

Glad you're still with us!!

[mark treidel]

David, prayers go out to you and your family. God's speed for a rapid and full recovery.

[Timchick]

David,
Your guardian angels are going to start requesting hazardous duty pay. Glad to hear your injuries are not life threatening. We'll be praying for your speedy recovery.

[barnstorm2]

David,

Let us know if we can help in any way.

Get well soon!!

[automan1223]

Oh my

Counselor. Your James Bond, austin powers many of action cover is going to be blown if you keep using the gyro to cover your special agent status.

They say you are not supposed to drive and talk on the cel phone !

That means gyros too !

Hope you are ok and make a speedy recovery.

Jonathan

[Screw]

Screw-In

Councelor, I hope your ok and want to wish you a speedy recovery. Is the mailbox salvagable?:boink:

Really, I wish you the best and cant wait to meet you at sone fly-in sometime.

Screw-Out

[Hognose]

David, David, David.

Ultrawhite is supposed to be your therapy, not lead you to require therapy.

Don't know what else to say, but you've got my prayers for a speedy recovery, and cute nurses in the interim.

Don't worry about the gyro -- I bet Ernie remembers how to build 'em.

cheers

-=K=-

[karlbamforth]

Get well soon David, my thoughts are with you and your family.

[Friendly]

David
you are something else. Don't tell me you were flying in another rented Tux. They probably won't even rent you one anymore. I thank God you are alive!
I pray a speedy recovery for you.
You are going the be the second largest owner of Dragon Wings that I know of. You have enough of experience now to write a book and with your dry witt humor, it would be a best seller.
Send us word soon of your recovery.

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Wish you a speedy recovery.

Glad you are OK and with us all.

[Phil_Ruffin]

Praying for a fast and total recovery.

[WayneNorris]

Local paper write-up of the accident. David still has that sense of humor from the hospital bed!

http://www.troymessenger.com/articles/2006/09/24/news/newsssss01.prt

[scott heger]

David, hope you a speedy recovery, we are all pulling for you!!!! Remember a cat has only 9 lives. Seems like you have used up about 14 of those so far. I think the next gyro you build/fly, should be named "LUCKY AGAIN".


Scott Heger,Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH

[Joe Pires]

Speedy Recovery David. Any new pictures in your avatar??

[StanFoster]

Dave: Thoughts and prayers with you...ok? I know you will come up with a good caption for this extra addition to you gyro mishaps. You will make a silk purse out of this sows ear again.


Best wishes....

Stan

[Friendly]

Ron, I am not troubled by Dave's Crash as much as I am about the Sparrow Hawk. The news reported he hit a guide wire. I agree he should have maintained the distance rule for structures, but it does take the sting out of not knowing anything about why the gyro crashed and then losing good pilots, friends and machines with out a clue as to why. That does more to hurt the reputation of gyro in my humble opinion

[giro5]

Some people here have said it tactifully and nicely and I am not going to say what my impression is after reading Davids other posts about flying after his bout with cancer other than to say I agree with gyro ron in spades.
Mr. Holmes,s get well soon but please really evlauate your attitude about flying gyros. It is your choice to enjoy many years of flying or keep tempting fate till you loose.

[Tina]

David I wish you a speedy recovery. Please let us know how your doing when you are able and what happened.

[Canadian Rhino]

Ron, I am not troubled by Dave's Crash as much as I am about the Sparrow Hawk. The news reported he hit a guide wire. I agree he should have maintained the distance rule for structures, but it does take the sting out of not knowing anything about why the gyro crashed and then losing good pilots, friends and machines with out a clue as to why. That does more to hurt the reputation of gyro in my humble opinion
Was it a Sparrowhawk he was flying?:noidea:
If he lived from a 300 foot fall that puts more credibility on the aircraft in my eyes!:drum:

[C. Beaty]

Ron, someone with the kind of dumb luck that Councilor Holmes has doesn’t have to worry about getting killed in a gyro.

No one can clip a guy wire at 300 feet and survive but somehow David did. The word wire has been used but most likely it was cable; rather tough stuff to cut.

And maybe it wasn’t all dumb luck; sounds like the rotor was bent into a crescent shape or at least knocked way out of pattern and shook violently but he was cool enough to keep it upright and parachute down.

Certainly he did the right thing after hitting the guy wire; minimal airspeed and get it on the ground posthaste.

PS: It was a Dominator, Phil. Those “long spindly” gear legs with their long stroke will absorb a lot of energy as they crumple.

[Mike G]

I also wish David a speedy recovery, with the same concern as others about the reputation that such an "accident prone" experienced pilot gives the community.
What blades was he using, where they extruded, bonded or fibre (glass/carbon)?
Can we draw any conclusions about the survivability of blades of different construction from this incident?
Mike G

[automan1223]

Give David a break. I dont know how many of those mishaps he has had but if you guys were to try a round of chemo, just one round I dont think your tough enough to start your eighth. Let alone your second. One round would be enough to take the edge off your top gun stick any day.

David, except for putting you back together doctors are only going to poison you to death with this chemo b.s..
8 strikes your out in my book. You need to let go of this chemo voodo b.s. and go alternative. You dont cure a disease by killing the patient. Leave the country if you have to to get the treatment you need. I dont care what naybody says, your one tough dude if you ask me. 8 rounds and 7 mishaps. Your like the energizer bunny ! Maybe this mishap was a blessing in disguise. rethink the chemo. I do not know a single person who has lasted as long as you on this "medical" treatment for cancer. I am a young man living in a retirement area . I have seen a lot....

Jonathan

[Brent Drake]

I wish you the best recovery possible.

[Mike Schallmann]

David -- I wish you a speedy and safe recovery---

I realize that you probably dont need any help from me and that you have pretty tough skin --but Ive got a few thing to say to the conference readers---


I met David on Norms conference about seven years ago. I had been flying my MAC Bensen for a couple of years and was moving on to a Subaru. I sold David my MAC and gave him a few pointers on how to install a wood prop. Well over the years Ive kept up on his exploits and have been in contact with him from time to time -- he is in my opinion an outstanding person and an exceptional pilot. He has been however extremely unlucky -- but he has always owned up to his transgressions. So some of you guys need to GET OFF HIS ASS.

People who attack others and point out what they consider to be mistakes and or lapses of judgement -- are not really helping or supportive --they are quite simply shooting off their mouths to make them feel self important. These armchair quarterbacks werent sitting in the pilots seat when it happened so they dont really know what went on. Ron Awad is probably the biggest offender of all ... His "I tell it like it is" philosophy is a load of CRAP. Ron quit shooting off your mouth -- it adds nothing constructive to the forum -- your certainly entitled to your opinion --but thats exactly what it is an OPINION --why not keep it to yourself -- if youve got facts --post it --but to be judgemental of another is quite simply a display of a "holier than thou " attitude.I guess your quote says it all "People who think they know it all really irritate those of us who do"


giro5 --I see by your profile that you have ZERO time in a gyro --hmmm----dont get sucked into Rons philosophy -- remember constructive criticism is helpful --but -- anything less simply displays an "I know it all" arrogance--


mikeG --whow --fifteen hours in a gyro and youre making judgements -whats the world coming to--


Its been said before --Before you judge a man you need to walk a mile in his shoes-- maybe thats what we should do here

[animal]

David is very Lucky to be alive, I don't even want to think of a crash like that from 300 feet. he miss judged and hit a cable in flight. stuff happens. how many of us have misjudged and backed our cars into something.. now view it from the pilots seat, those guide wires/cables are hard to see as it is.

I think with all David is going thru with his Cancer and knowing that would be the last chance he would have to fly for awhile. I am sure he had more on his mind then any of us healthy people ever do.

the fact that it was an evening flight probably made the cable and tower harder to see. if he was flying into the sun at the time would make it even worse.

I think David does pretty good for what he is dealing with.

I wish him a speedy recovery and I sure know I would not want to be in his shoes. just the thought of chemo makes my skin crawl.

Good luck David on both recoveing from the crash and the cancer.

[WayneNorris]

Those of you who would like to express your thoughts regarding his recovery or chastise him on a more personal level may do so at:

David Holmes
UAB Hospital
Room 9325
1802 6th Avenue South
Birmingham, AL 35249

I am sure he will be there for several more days and would like the diversion of reading your comments.

[Heron]

Mr. David Houdini HOlmes is it? :D
Glad he still here, I can´t cry more than I am already crying . . .
Get back and rebuild . . .
Heron

[Harry_S.]

I am not slamming David, or saying he should give up gyros. But if he can't be more careful then he needs help being more careful or take a break from flying. That is my OPINION, like it or not!



Mike S...Your post #30, reflect my sentiments exactly.


Ron's quote above, is from a gyro 'spert who tried to de-roof his hangar... with his rotor blades.:D

I'm rather certain, other forum members agree, in some respects, with your feelings Ron, but...have you noticed the absence of posts relative to yours?!

Many times over the years, I personally invoked the cliche'..."Engage your brain before you open your mouth."


Cheers :)

[Mike Schallmann]

Ron--

You are slamming David - apparently you just dont give a damn about other people--

To quote you " I am not slamming David, or saying he should give up gyros. But if he can't be more careful then he needs help being more careful or take a break from flying. That is my OPINION, like it or not!"

He needs help ? --What is he mentally incapacated or what --? Ron you need to give your mouth a break --thats not my opinion that is a FACT--Im rapidly coming to believe that you are not a nice person -and that also is a fact not an opinion--

Step back and read what you write --cant you tell that you are being a jerk -with utter disregaurd for a persons feelings -- you are not GOD --what gives you the right to judge another -- like the rest of us --you are not an expert --you are just another pilot -no more no less---

[Heather Poe]

My favorite quote from David Holmes is:
...I flew up and down main street just above the powerlines...
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4679&page=3
post #44

[Harry_S.]

I just reviewed that post in its entirety, Heather, and it was a *beautiful* post...in my mind anyway.

In my dreams, I have *taken off from the main street* and became enmeshed in those same power lines...and worse...and in reality...:censored:

David has lived a charmed and interesting life...but, that's David for you.:yo:


Cheers :)

[B8MFlorida]

David-
Wishing you a speedy recovery my friend and knowing you from this board, I was just wondering whats going to be your next Gyro ; )
Get Well Soon,
JR

[Screw]

Screw-In

David-
Wishing you a speedy recovery my friend and knowing you from this board, I was just wondering whats going to be your next Gyro ; )
Get Well Soon,
JR

Hell after that, I'm guessing another UltraWhite with a mailbox!

Screw-Out

[Timchick]

Wayne,
Thanks for posting an address.

[Vance]

Hello Ron,

If I thought my life was going to end soon that is just when I would want to fly even if my capabilities were diminished.

Sitting and thinking of things I have done is not nearly as alluring as making new memories.

Tomorrow is promised to know one and one must seize the day.

I believe that David knows that running into wires is not good. I believe that most on this forum believe this also.

I didn’t remind him that it is not good to run into wires because it didn’t seem necessary, not because I was afraid of what Harry or Mike would say.

I do think you are a nice man Ron and I have even seen you be funny.

Thank you, Vance

[Mike Schallmann]

Ron --you my friend (loosley taken) can piss backwards faster than anybody I have ever known --you hold yourself out as an "expert" by your attitude and the tone of your post --but when someone stands up to you and you are called to task you say ---hey Im no expert Im just speaking my mind -- yes I'l jump your butt and anybody elses that tries to damage the reputation of a fellow pilot..


I may be an old fart --but tightly wound isnt one of my traits --I try to treat everybody with dignity and respect but there are some people who you have to kick in the butt to get their attention

In some cases this dosent work so you have got to get in their face -got it!


You should treat people like you would want to be treated --in your case it seems like you like to have the crap piled on -- so I'll oblige

Another thing who in the hell made you the judge and jury in deciding who should fly ?

Get off you high horse -your nothing but a mortal like the rest of us--

As for your private E-Mails -- these people must be spineless if they wont stand up for their position -- I severely doubt that you got any --I think its pure BS

[Friendly]

Thanks for posting the address.
As far as what gyro David will build again, I would have to say that he sure as shown the survivability of the Dom. and Dragon wings.

Chuck , that is amazing that his rotors maintained enough of rpm and lift to lower him safely. Will there be any pictures available that you know of?

[Cobra Doc]

David,
Get well soon! The guys at TOI will die of boredom without you! Just curious, was it the advancing or retreating blade that tried for a 3 wire?

[Mike G]

Mad MAn MIke
I think (in fact I know) you misunderstood what I wrote; there was no criticism of David in my post. I don't know him and therefore do not (in my opinion) have the right to comment on how he lives his life. The little I do know about him makes me admire the man very much.
My concern was for the reputation of the gyro movement that could suffer from the association of his experience and his accidents. The general public and the non gyro flying community could easily draw the conclusion that the gyro must be dangerous if some body with David's experience has so many accidents.
If the number of hours members have flown in a gyro is to restrict their right to make comments about the state of the gyro movement I fear for the forum as well.
The question I did ask (that seems to have gone unanswered) is what sort of blades was David using? If they could suffer this sort of accident without disintegrating and still allow him to survive I would like to consider them for my gyro.

Mike G

[scottessex]

Dragon Wings..... David has an ultrawhite, dominator with 503 rotax.

Get well soon David!

[JByrd]

First of all David, congratulations on your ability to accidentally collide with a guy-wire and then survive a crash that I most certainly would not have had the skill to survive.

Having been a former professional tower crewman and facing a near catastrophic accident on a couple of occasions caused me to cease that occupation after I was married.

Some guys here on the forum are beating you up pretty badly. There may be truth in what they say, I generally try to listen to everyone and learn something. On the other hand I think it nothing short of rude to lay into someone while they are struggling to survive serious injuries and cancer.

My hope is that you are able to recover and fly again to enjoy what you like to do, perhaps tempered with a bit more caution.

The only one that flys your machine, is you.

Jim B.

[dragonflyerthom]

David(Gyro Houdini)

You once again prove that even in adversity you are the man. All of the years of training has paid off again.

I personally don't see how anyone that flys in the same space as Heli can be congoled. Everyone is worried about the reputation of the gyro but I am more worried about how you are doing.

We as Gyro Pilots fly low, this is where our civilization has built all kinds of obstacles ie towers, of all kinds. The fact that we don't have more accidents is really unbelieveable. I would say this is the reason for the minimum clearance rule 500 ft and 1000 ft agl.
Good luck and wishes on your recovery. I am hoping the chemo doesn't slow everything down.


Your Gyro friend


Thom

[chuter]

I can definitely understand David's desire to fly at his point in life and with all his struggles. I do however have concerns about him flying close to people on the ground; I think his judgement may be impared at times.

In this thread (http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5329&highlight=parade) he talks of taxiing his gyro in a parade; gives me the willies thinking about the possibility of small kids running up to the gyro.

I'm all for having fun, and if I'm ever in declining health I hope I will be able to fly, but I also hope I don't endanger others.

[dragonflyerthom]

You know Ron

This comes from flying FW at cruise. Some of the Gyro pilots think that we go soo slow that going high takes the fun out of it. I disagree. Part of the fun of flying cross country. or Just flying, the world seems to slow down and I can just google at the beauty of this planet. If I wanted to go fast I would buy a jet.

[Harry_S.]

Do I need a disclaimer in my signature line to make you old farts happy???? ;)


Gosh, some of you guys are so dam tightly wound up, that if you put a piece of coal up your butts you'd crap out diamonds.....




Seriously Ron...I hope you live long enough to be referred to as an *old fart*; considering the past happenings in my life, you know...I've earned the right to be referred to as an *old fart.*


It seems to me Ron...you may be the one that is so wound up. Relax, why don't 'cha.:humble:


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Wonder what the market would be on the diamonds.



Thom

[Steve McGowan]

Thom, the world Altitude record for a gyroplane is something well over 20,000 feet. I always fly at least 1000 feet agl whenever I am out buzzing around. Usually I go higher, especially on cross country flights just to make sure I am out of harms way and to give more options for landings in the event of a engine failure. Gyros do not have to be flown at 500 feet agl and lower. It is just as dangerous to fly that low in a gyro as it is to fly anything else.


Usually we as men----- Open Mouth and Swallow Foots..

Ron,,,,, when it comes to David Holmes..... A bit of a history lesson, you might apply to before sayng anything at all about the man..or anyone else if it be in a negative manner.. (Not that you did-- or Not!)

In reference to David.... He flew jets from carriers in the Navy, and then went on to fly helicopters in the Army..

He has instructed me much more than I ever did him---
when he and I were checking each other out in the BLACK..

Half of what he has forgotten about flying,,,, I'd love to know.

His influence/experience has helped me on many occasions...

Needless to say,, You are watched more than you think.:typing: In Many Way's
( even the FAA knows you.)

me&BooDro

[Canadian Rhino]

Wonder what the market would be on the diamonds.



Thom

Sold in the underworld black market? Sounds like a streak of luck!:p

[scandtours]

Dr Bensen in July 1980 wrote in his Bensen Flying news magazine how to fly over wires.
Very simple advises that could save lives and avoit accidents.
Copy attached.
Giorgos
Cyprus

[automan1223]

A sectional will list the most if not all towers and transmission line areas. The numbers above the tower will give you the height of the tower above ground and MSL. During preflight planning you can quickly look at a sectional and see large numbers printed in each grid that will tell you the lowest safe altitude you can fly at, or the top of each tower. Add 500' to that and you should be ok.

Jonathan

[JByrd]

Hi Giorgos,

Thanks for that post #60. There is a lot of wisdom in that article.

David, I do hope you recover soon to no pain and return to flying.

Jim B.

[Hognose]

Dr Bensen in July 1980 wrote in his Bensen Flying news magazine how to fly over wires.
Very simple advises that could save lives and avoit accidents.

Giorgios, and everybody.

That has always been the conventional wisdom about wires, and it works for telephone/telegraph and power-transmission wires (which are most of the wires out there).

You have to learn to watch out for towers if you like to low fly along highways, in valleys, or along rivers. Better not to do that.

The wire Dave struck was apparently a guy wire to a microwave tower. There's some irony in that, because in the USA microwave towers are mostly out of use or in standby -- most of the long distance phone traffic they used to carry goes by fibre optics. Chances are good that he hit a tower that does nothing, but is still... just... there. Tower owners are not required to dismantle them when done.

The only way to stay clear of guy wires is to assume that an area with a radius about equal to the tower's height is "contaminated." Microwave towers often don't have guy wires, but are rectangular trusses that are self-supporting.

Guy wires are most commonly associated with commercial broadcast radio and television towers. AM radio particularly likes tall towers. In California, KFI constructed a tower 1/4 mile off the approach path to an airport... three times planes have hit it, fatally for all on board. After the most recent loss of a family in a 182, they are constructing the tower in the same place.

Before you bag on the pilot for the nav error, remember that a 1/4 mile is 1,320 feet, and the most recent tower victims were in IMC.

How's your navigation? Ever off 1,000 feet laterally?

Unfortunately, we can't counter the interests that build towers. KFI, for instance, makes so much more money from a high tower that can extend their signal further in heavily populated SoCal that they can (and do) laugh at crash victims. It's the way the world works....

There's a similarly positioned tower at Zandery, Suriname, but that one isn't even lighted. Go by THAT at night and it WILL get your attention!

Military and some other helicopters (I see it on EMS machines a lot) have wire cutters. It's a sometime thing, but wouldn't work on a gyro (a Black Hawk has the mass to cut a guy wire... a Sparrowhawk does not).

All you can do is try to know the tower locations and steer clear of them. (And, low towers like microwave and cell towers are not usually on sectionals... but they can still settle your hash). Call towers go up literally overnight, so you can't assume there is no tower ahead just because there never has been one before.

Always assume that the tower you can see radiates wires you cannot. Nobody was ever killed by a wire he saw.

Manage your risks actively. Visibility low with haze, fog, or dusk settling in? Sun low in the sky and lots of glare? When you can see less, fly higher.

cheers

-=K=-

[birdy]

Thats a good flic Gyronut:)
Wot sorta plain is it?


And to all you blokes sh1tn on Ronny, you should know by now, he IS god.;)
We call him Fig Jam.:)[ F#ck I'm Good, Just Ask Me.:)]

Do wot you wana do David, its your life, make the most of it mate.

[ if i died in my gyro, no one here would be supprised, or sad. I couldnt think of a better way to go, but its not sumthn im plan'n on do'n just yet;)]

[GyroRon]

Birdy, isn't that the pot calling the kettle Black???


For everyone else, screw it.... I deleted my posts in this thread.

[Heron]

Ron A. has left the building . . . :D
Did anyone heard from Dave about the mishap?
Get back in here Counselor!
Heron

[birdy]

Birdy, isn't that the pot calling the kettle Black???
No.
Your the one with People who think they know it all really irritate those of us who do. on your posts.
If that aint calln yourself a knowall, then i'm buggered if i know wot is:).

Then you say, I am not a expert on anything..
Mate, your one mixed up confused cooky;).

[GyroRon]

Birdy, I guess you kangaroo chasing cow growers just don't have a sence of humor...

[dragonflyerthom]

Birdy

Stick around. His signature line will change. Posting is like flying you just can't get enough. It's the communication that keeps on giving. Ron ya know we love ya. But you can get on the only nerve I have left. Ha ha ha

Thom

[PW_Plack]

Kevin,

KFI's tower is 1.75 miles off the runway, and there have been two crashes since 1970, with a total of three fatalities. But if you're two minutes from the runway, under 800 feet AGL, and 1,000 feet off course in IMC, you can't blame the tower.

Microwave towers often sit idle, but they serve as backup, and you'd be surprised how often they get put back in service, usually when somebody cuts a cable with a backhoe.

People say towers are ugly and dangerous, but they keep using cellphones and watching TV. Radio towers are every bit as critical a part of the public infrastructure as airports are. They don't jump out and bite airplanes. You have to fly into them to be hurt, and you have to respect them to fly safely.

As for David, I'm not sure what to think. There's no doubt he's a talented pilot, but at times he's a one-man public relations wrecking crew for the sport. His post about his cross-country flight to A&P school over the top of clouds was a classic which could have ended very badly.

I can't imagine what it's like to live with recurring cancer. I can only guess it could make me dismissive of cheating death in other corners of my life. If that's what's going on, I find it hard to be too critical. In his interview from his hospital bed, at least he acknowledged it was carelessness that bit him, and that Ultrawhite sure did its job in getting him down alive.

[Cobra Doc]

There were three permanent targets on the radar at the Troy GCA: Channel 12 tower, Sander's Truck Lines Tower and the Troy water tower. I have never seen a cell tower with guy wires. I'm not saying they don't exist. All of them around here are self-supporting. My understanding of the Sander's tower is that it appeared over a weekend. A sharp radar controller noticed it and asked tower if they could see it. The FAA waivered the tower AFTER it was built. This all happened about a year before I got there. Toweres can and do happen over-night. The one David hit, wasn't one of those. According to him it had been there for a while. He doesn't say what the distraction was that allowed him to get too close. Y'all be careful now. Ya hear?

[chuter]

I always took Ron's signature about knowing it all to be a joke. I think you aussies been eatin' too much cow sh!t.

[Harry_S.]

I always took Ron's signature about knowing it all to be a joke. I think you aussies been eatin' too much cow sh!t.



Michael...Posting on a "public forum", as has been mentioned, is to allow *any* personal idiosyncrasies, is IMO, far fetched.

I'm of a somewhat stoic nature...but I do appreciate a jocular, *funny*, addendum, as most do, but again...there seem to be some that go beyond the norm, with their grandiosity. But, like I said...that's just my opinion.


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Harry

Is this type of behavior normal on the forum?:boink:

Why the jabs at each ones intellectual capacity?:focus:


This is rather :boom:


Thom

[chuter]

Hi Harry,

I'm not sure what your point is.................if you're talking about my use of the s-word for poopie, I've seen others use the same "!", so I figured it would be ok.

And I meant it in a light-hearted way, just trying to get folks to lighten up a bit.

Michael...Posting on a "public forum", as has been mentioned, is to allow *any* personal idiosyncrasies, is IMO, far fetched.

I'm of a somewhat stoic nature...but I do appreciate a jocular, *funny*, addendum, as most do, but again...there seem to be some that go beyond the norm, with their grandiosity. But, like I said...that's just my opinion.


so........LIGHTEN THE F*** UP!!:noidea:

[Harry_S.]

Hi Harry,

I'm not sure what your point is...



so........LIGHTEN THE F*** UP!!:noidea:



Michael...my post above was NOT directed at you. Relax.

I think this thread got a little outta hand and I guess I added to it somewhat. I think your comment above was totally uncalled for.

So...
:focus:


Cheers :)

[GyroRon]

You remember what I said about the coal???? :ohwell:

now all I got to say is..........:violin:

[Cobra Doc]

I give up. David is in the hospital and everyone is aguing about what Ron said?
David, GET BACK HERE!!! THEY ARE ALL GOING INSANE WITH OUT YOU!!!

[GyroRon]

Yeap, And I deleted what I said!

[Aussie_Paul]

[QUOTE=chuter;136154]I always took Ron's signature about knowing it all to be a joke. QUOTE]

I did to Chuter.

Aussie Paul. :)

[chuter]

I think your comment above was totally uncalled for.


Sorry Harry, I guess my humor just doesn't work on a computer screen. No offense meant.

[Harry_S.]

No offense taken, Michael.

Now...:focus:

I may have missed it; has David given information or particulars as to his incident?!


Cheers :)

[C. Beaty]

No offense taken, Michael.

Now...:focus:

I may have missed it; has David given information or particulars as to his incident?!


Cheers :)Only the bedside interview by a local paper posted earlier.

Of course, SOP for newspaper reporters to garble everything such as using “guide wires” when guy wires was the correct terminology.

[Harry_S.]

Only the bedside interview by a local paper posted earlier.




My age is showin', I can't find that posting???!!!


.

[C. Beaty]

Here you go, harry:

http://www.troymessenger.com/articles/2006/09/24/news/newsssss01.prt

[Harry_S.]

Got it Chuck...thanks for your help.


Cheers :)

[C. Beaty]

Here’s another hint for you old fogies that need bifocals: to enlarge the stuff on your screen like that newspaper report, hold down the keyboard control (Ctrl) button while rolling the wheel on your mouse.

You can make print as small or as large as you like.

[Hognose]

Re: the KFI tower prang.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20041227X02035&ntsbno=LAX05FA054&akey=1

Looks like we were both not quite right Paul. Lots of little factors in there helped the guy hit the tower. Glare in his face, altimeter still set for El Monte, and the position of the tower. As the NTSB points out, towers (especially for AM and also for CW if anyone still uses that) have to be tall because they work best as an exact fraction (or multiple) of wavelength.

I'd love to be the attorney who gets to depose the KFI engineer who says they dropped the strobe lights from the budget because they were too much money. I reckon that cavalier comment is going to cost KFI or its insurers somewhere in the low eight figures. And I have to wonder what they've lost on advertising with the reduced reach of a shorter tower.

My best guess -- the tower will be rebuilt, it will be 760 ft again, but it will have more lights than Disneyland this time.

And in another 10 or 20 or 30 years someone will hit it again.

cheers

-=K=-

[Hognose]

Re: towers and radar. Most facilities don't have the GCA radar that Cody refers to, which is used for PAR approaches. (Imagine an ILS where the controller is theone who has the ability to visualize the glideslope, not the pilot, and the controller talks the pilot down).

Most terminals these days have remote radar if any, and a lot of them only show secondary returns (transponders). However, the NTSB report says that the CA crash, the terminal display did show the tower. Which is just about where someone cleared for a left base and clear to land might be.

The pilot had been into the airport before and presumably had seen the tower. But on the mishap day, he probably couldn't see it due to the sun in his eyes on the base leg.

Y'all be careful out there. Most of us don't have David's nine lives.

cheers

-=K=-

[robertstodaro]

Wow, I've been gone a while. David---best wishes and a speedy recovery.

reminds me of a guy I know that did a parachute jump from a tower and his canopy hit a wire. He had to cut away and ride a reserve which he hung on a telephone pole. He still jumps..

reminds me of an old joke, "If GOD is your co-pilot, you better let him fly with me, cause you'er gonna kill him!

Get well soon ya tuff ole bastid.

[Rotornut]

David Holmes, OMGosh. David geeez... My peacock feather you gave me years back needs a mate, you gotta bring it to BD Days!!

Gosh I dont show up for weeks and look what I find! Not again David!
My Prayers are with you and wish there was someway to help you.

You have to be MORE CAREFUL! (my heart can't take anymore) MJ

[scott heger]

Kevin, the local KFI tower is a l bad joke to pilots around here. It was one of the first things I was warned about when flying solo in the Los Angeles basin. I use KFUL-Fullerton all the time. That damn tower is about 800 feet tall and is really hard to see in the afternoon sun westbound leaving or transitioning the area. It is less than 2 miles from the airport, and I have yet to ever here the control tower warn any airplane or helicopter about it, even if they are close. Yeah, I know it is the pilots responsibility to know all the hazards, but having such a big thin UNLIGHTED obstacle within the controlled airspace at the intersection of two major interstate freeways is completely stupid. At night ,with all the industrial buildings and light pollution from the densly popluated area, it is almost impossible to see. It had been hit about thirty years ago by another plane, and it was only a matter of time it got hit again, and it did.

That was no surprise to any local pilot. So what did they do after alot of discussion? Put another one back up about two blocks away. We all just shake our heads, at least this one seems to be a bit shorter. Now only us helicopter pilots have to worry about pranging it. Just stupid.

Scott Heger,Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH

[PW_Plack]

Kevin,

The new one will be 684 feet, and lit as you describe. It was in one of the stories I did in the ANN Aero-Cast a couple days ago.

[Gyro-Cop]

I called UAB today to check on David and was told thar he is in intensive care and did not have access to a phone. They said he is in the trama unit of intensive care, and did not say any thing about his condition. I hope that he is there following surgery on his knee and nothing else.

[gyroparts]

Pics of the KFI tower after the prang.

http://www.oldradio.com/archives/warstories/640.htm

[Hognose]

For anyone joining the story late, the KFI tower was NOT the one hit by David Holmes. KFI is in LA (Fullerton I think... ancestral home of my Fender guitars) and was hit pretty directly by a C-182 in 2004. I don't think that David brought his (smaller) tower down.

cheers

-=K=-

[barnstorm2]

reminds me of an old joke, "If GOD is your co-pilot, you better let him fly with me, cause you'er gonna kill him!
.

HA!

I heard one that I thought worth a smile.

"God was my co-pilot but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him"


Co-pilot jokes aside...

When I was flying at dusk this week I was thinking about Dave and towers. I found that it is VERY EASY to miss a tower or wire much more than you would think esp at dusk!

When the sun is in your eye or not behind you the bloody things are invisable!

Lots of high time skilled pilots have been downed by wires and towers.

[Steve McGowan]

Spell GOD in reverse..... Nope I wouldn't eat the BooMan

[Screw]

Screw-In

Any word on Davids condition?

Screw-Out

[WayneNorris]

David has had some setbacks, but seems to be slowly improving. He has been in ICU for two weeks now. He has pneumonia in both lungs, and requires breathing tubes. The doctors have his heart rate stable and his other vital signs seem to be stable also. He is heavily sedated at this point, but seems to recognize family.
This info is given with permission of David's sister.

[Harry_S.]

May We All Offer A Prayer For David's Full Recovery.


Please Consider The Power Of Prayer.


.

[Timchick]

Wayne, Thank you for getting updates for us. We'll be praying for him.

[Mike Schallmann]

Im bunping this up -Its been a while --does anybody have any more news on David--

[gyrofly]

Sounds like one tough dude.

[dg2829]

I'm sorry to report that one of the Gyro pilots in Aus, died today, after being taken off life support. additional details can be found at http://www.vsra.com.au

[WayneNorris]

Encouraging news from David Holmes' sister:

Dear Family and friends,
We just got back into town and wanted to let you know the good news.--
David does seem to be better today!!!! They had him sitting up. He was writing notes and said he was hungry, but still has the trac. Was smiling and flirting with the nurses. That does sound like he is getting brighter. How grateful we are!!! He is still in ICU, so do hope he can soon be well enough for a room. It was 4 weeks ago tonight that he had his accident!!!
I will go up Sun. and stay a few days. If more news, I will let you know before I leave.
Thanks again for all your prayers and interest and love, Juanita

[Timchick]

That's great news. Thanks Wayne.

[barnstorm2]

Thanks for the update!! Good news!

[Harry_S.]

DITTO.

Get well and back to the forum, David.

That's an order, Lieutenant.


Cheers :)

[WayneNorris]

More good news from David's sister:

Well we have great news.
David was transferred from UAB to Health South in Montgomery this afternoon. He still has a long way to go, but hopefully he will get the attention he needs and will make great progress. I don't know any details. Brent was staying with him tonight and then tomorrow will be a big day for him I am sure. The address is
Health South
4465 Narrow Lane Rd.
Montgomery, Al. 36116
Love to all, Juanita

[barnstorm2]

Thank you for the info!!

[LARRYEBOYER]

Dave. Sorry to hear about your accident. You empliphy the Bible where it says that GOD knows us so well that he has even numbered our days. It was not your time to meet your maker.But quit pushing the envelope!!!
Hope you mend quickly and live long to tell us more stories of your life's adventures. GOD bless you!.

[david holmes]

THANKS GUYS.

Tuesday I came home from rehab with wheelchair and crutches for a few weeks -- two months after the accident
You prayed me through.
I went over and looked at UW today for the first time. I'll try to get pictures and fill in the details in the next few days as I get together.

[Mike Schallmann]

David --Im so glad that your doing better -- you have been in my prayers--

[Timchick]

Great news David! Glad you're home!

[StanFoster]

David: Glad to see you are steadily improving. Hang in there...but I know you dont have to be told that. Thoughts and prayers with you and your family.


Stan

[groundhog]

Feild of loooong dreams
Wishing you a speedy recovery

[Harry_S.]

Welcome back, Mr David.:D


Cheers :)

[RockyMeLad]

David,
A wheel-chair...
Hummmm.......
an engine, a tail, a rotor...
You're almost there.
Glad you're home again. :welcome:

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Glad you are getting better David.

You never did find out what happened to Jenny did you?

Chuck E.

[david holmes]

Chuck,
Jenny was so long ago that nobody else on the forum remembers her. Never was satisfied that she was among the herd but several resemble her.
A solid white blue eyed female donkey was born here this year -- very docile,. First one I've ever seen.
The Vet says they are not all that rare --he says "There are several white jackasses around here"

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Naw, your not a jackass David, you just live to close to the edge.

Are you finished smashing up your gyros yet?

Or we going to wring our hands wondering what you will do in one next?

Anyhow yeh, I remember you talking about Jenny on Norms forum and then one day she just vanished.

Get well soon get back to flying and this time see if you can keep out of trouble,,,,,,ever thought about getting a stock RAF? That otta be fun.

You could mount rotors on your wheel chair and then if you wreck it it will save the doctors having to put you in a wheel chair.:first:

Anyhow we all love you and wish you the best.
Chuck E.

[BUD ONEAL]

Welcome home David, Hannah said to tell you hello!

[dragonflyerthom]

David 007 Holmes

Ya got more twists and turns than a roller coaster. Glad to hear from ya again. Ha I hope to see your pics soon. Man are you blessed.

[Hognose]

I understand that that guy wire of the tower now has a number. It's officially the "three" wire.

Welcome back, David. Get well soon!

cheers

-=K=-

[david holmes]

Kevin,
that's funny. I'll bet there are not 5 people on the forum that know what you are talking about.

I'm walking with one crutch now so it won't be long.
When you see me you see a miracle.

[C. Beaty]

I’ve never been on an aircraft carrier but imagine the #3 wire is the last chance wire.

[gyroplanes]

David,
Get well buddy.
It's a shame it wasn't a "bolter"
Tom (one of the 5)

[Harry_S.]

Oh yeah...I'm one of the five.

Helped build buku Navy Aircraft.


Cheers :)

[Screw]

Screw-In

I'm one of the five.

Screw-Out

[scottessex]

Shooo! The air force landed a C-130 on a carrier and didn't need no stinkin' wire!

Welcome back David!

[giro5]

Any of you old Navy types remember the F4 NATOPS manual - picture on the inside of the cover had 2 Air Force F4's landing in section on a carrier - everyone on the flight deck bailing off.

[giro5]

Mr. Holmes, I am not sure you took the barrier at the correct time and place but then I don't have any personal experience to go on.

[JByrd]

Hi Dave,

I was just thinking it had been a while since I had seen you post.

Were glad to see you back on your toes even if with a stick under one arm.

I would sure like to get to Benson Days this year, my work schedule is tight.

Keep on the mend.

Jim B.

[WayneNorris]

David Holmes always ended his post with:
"THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE BE READY TO MEET OUR MAKER ANYTIME! "

Yesterday David met his Maker. Happy landings on the big runways, David. We will miss you.

I received the following on the memorial service: (Bush Memorial Church is in Troy, Alabama)

The memorial service for David Holmes will be May 12 at Bush Memorial Church.
Visitation will be 1:00-2:00. Service will be at 2:00 with Dr. Ellis Bush and Rev. Otis
Derriah officiating. Music by Barbershop Quartet (David was a charter member).
Honorary Pallbearers will be The Gideons, Brundidge Rotary Club and Betty Dykes
Sunday School class. Family will gather at Bush Farm after the service.
Thanks for your love and prayers during these days. Juanita Bush

[Aussie_Paul]

Sad day indeed, and condolences to his family and friends. When I had just joined Norms forum in 1999 I enjoyed Davids posts with his humour.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Timchick]

Sad to hear. I've tried to call David a couple times recently just to see how he was doing and never got ahold of him. I know he's in a better place but his friends and relatives here sure will miss him.

[StanFoster]

I never met the guy.....but we had several nice e-mail exchanges. I never will forget the generosity of that man. When my stairshop was destroyed...he sent me some money out of the goodness of his heart. I appreciated it..but was doing fine and I just passed it on to someone more in need.

I especially loved his humor...specifically his avatar which rotated to different gyro incidents he had. Something like the one that was burning...he would say too much fuel....then another one that had ran out of fuel and crashed...he would say "not enough fuel"

Thoughts and prayers with this mans family as they deal with their big loss.


Stan

[Hognose]

Oh, my. How great a soul we have lost, and heaven has gained.

I never got tired of David's retelling his story of crashing and burning his gyro -- in full evening dress. He had a marvellous picture of himself, in full tux, standing elegantly in front of the flaming wreckage. Now that is a man with a dry sense of humour.

I suspect he actually died several times in his many adventures, but the Lord kept giving him second chances because He was enjoying the whole thing quite as much as David was.

I will also never forget the the way he stood up to cancer. When most people are shuffling off to the hospital, he was ordering an ultrawhite... with an instrument pod made from an upended mailbox.

None of us will never have his style, and few if any could match his courage. But we will always have his example.

regards

-=K=-

[dragonflyerthom]

Well it has been a grand fight noble gyronaut, We will miss you and your stories. RIP

[barnstorm2]

David enriched many lives. I will miss him.

[Friendly]

Thanks Kevin,
You said it so well. David had me in tears more than once, reading his story's of his incidences. It was the stuff found in movies only David was real. He had such a flair for dry wit. I will truly miss him.

[Heron]

Oh shoot!!!! :(
And I was already in the ditch . . . .I wish I could never read this news.
See you Later David!
Heron

[BUD ONEAL]

Good by my friend,See you on the other side.

[BUD ONEAL]

Was Davids death the caused by the last accident he had?

[scottessex]

Very sad indeed, I had talked to David a couple of times, trying to get him to come to SX days, And He had called me about some rotax help, I liked him very much. A sad day indeed, I am sorry. Condolences to his family.

[Timchick]

Was Davids death the caused by the last accident he had?

Bud, Last I'd heard he was recovering from those injuries but I think he was continuing his battle with cancer. My guess is the cancer got him. Maybe someone who knows can share.

[Rotornut]

David was A Very Generous Man and a Understanding one.
He gave more than he ever recieved and that is what he loved helping others.
My Thought's and Prayers are with his family and friends.
David gave me two children book's years ago for Trinity his Son had wrote them.

I will Always Remember David when I look at the Peacock Feathers that David gave me years ago. They have Wonderful Color and David knew I loved Rainbow's so he said I could always see the color in the feathers.

Bye David We LOVE YA. Fly with your Wings Of Gold.

MJ :)

[Harry_S.]

Rest In Peace, David

.


.

[Mike Schallmann]

I "met " David about 10 yrs ago -- on Norms Conference. We became friends and communicated regularly via E-Mail an occasional telephone conversation. Years ago I sold him my old MAC an occasionally made parts for his gyro --

My most recent contact with him was in mid March when I called him --we discussed his crash and why it happened. We also touched briefly on his medical problems --but at the time he never indicated just how severe it was--his only comment was that he wasnt going to fly gyros again until got the cancer thing licked --he sounded very popsitive..

I never met David in person --but he was a friend -- I told him I was going to Louisiana in June and that I would drive over to meet him--

I guess that meeting will occur at another time and place---

Rest in peace David --you will be missed--

[Steve McGowan]

I "met " David about 10 yrs ago -- on Norms Conference. We became friends and communicated regularly via E-Mail an occasional telephone conversation. Years ago I sold him my old MAC an occasionally made parts for his gyro --

My most recent contact with him was in mid March when I called him --we discussed his crash and why it happened. We also touched briefly on his medical problems --but at the time he never indicated just how severe it was--his only comment was that he wasnt going to fly gyros again until got the cancer thing licked --he sounded very popsitive..

I never met David in person --but he was a friend -- I told him I was going to Louisiana in June and that I would drive over to meet him--

I guess that meeting will occur at another time and place---

Rest in peace David --you will be missed--


David taught me more about BLADES than I ever knew.. When I fly,

I fly with him....

Thankyou David

Steve

[Rotornut]

Thanks Steve for the Pic. David Always had that SMILE for All.
MJ :)

[Timchick]

Found these photos (last summer) of David.

[Joe Pires]

I had not been keeping up with this thread. Very sad indeed. My thoughts are with those of you who knew and loved him.

[lanichol]

Bump. I was looking for some of David's stories and realized many were on Norms old forum.

[Arnie Madsen]

I wish there was a way to compile all of David's stories and pictures in one place. He was one of a kind and had a unique perspective in unusual circumstances.

They could call it the treasury of David or something. It's worth preserving.