Electronic magazine

[Timchick]

How many people think we should look into switching over to an electronic magazine? If the magazine were published in pdf format it could be downloaded from PRA's website and/or sent out to members on a cd-rom at a cost of $1.00-$2.00 per member. In electronic form we could get all the color photos back and maybe more content also. For those still wanting some sort of paper copy they could print out the mag on their PC printers.

[Caribean_gyro]

but a survey and who has pc is a must. also some have DSL and others as me have dial up. so The size of the mag can not be big. I currently received several magazine in my profecion ( I am a Senior Buyer and logistic) so I get the email with all the highlights and then I got to theire web and read it. If I like it I can download. This couls be a good and cost effective way for PRA magazine.

[groundhog]

Oops I voted, then read the post.It sounds like it might be ok I can't get DSL but would survive.Maybe you could do both,with a different price for one, the other, or both.The cost is not an issue as it stands for me. I believe that doing less is excactly the wrong direction.Most people have no Idea what a Gyro is.
We need another Mad Max or James bond or Rep at every airshow.Dont close the doors and paper the windows,open them wide and shout.Can we get your videos somehow without going through youtube? add a buck for PRA.

[scottessex]

The exposure from the videos would be great.
Youtube is kind of funky sometimes, Blocked out at work etc.
But having them on a different site would be cool.

[kc0iv]

The exposure from the videos would be great.
Youtube is kind of funky sometimes, Blocked out at work etc.
But having them on a different site would be cool.

Might want to look at Google. There are several already on that site.

Leon
kc0iv

[gyromike]

From talking to a couple of people involved in printing the magazine, going to an electronic format would have to be pretty much an "all or nothing" proposition.

On small runs like what the PRA does, most of the cost is in the setup. Printing in quantity like the EAA does drops the price per unit down considerably.

If half of our members elect to drop the paper copy for a downloadable copy, the cost to print the remainder will not be cut in half, or even close to half. So the price per unit will increase, probably to the point where it is not sustainable.

Also, how many PRA members use the internet? We have several in our chapter who aren't internet savvy, or even have a computer at home.

Personally, I don't know how they do without it, but that's their choice.

[Chuck Roberg]

I beleive it's an idea that has merit. The BIG stumbling block is the poor shape of the PRA website.

Something needs to be done to clean up the PRA website and make it more user friendly first. Then set up a members section. Then add the magazine to the members section.

We have to remember that not all our members have access to or use the computer. So even if PRA has less magazines to be printed the cost will not go down. It costs the same for production and set up if you print one copy or 2,000.

This was brought up at the life members meeting. And I think it was Glen who said the printer needs a minimium order of something like 2200 copies. It was said when we reach over the 2200 member mark. They could ask for volunteers to get the magazine electronically. That would keep the magazine at the minimium order and not increase production and mailing costs.

[dragonflyerthom]

Mike you are right. The membership that over 50 won't be that saavy about the internet. Some of my friends and family don't even know how to turn a puter on much less how to operate one. It sometimes amazes me how the younger generation don't even think about the puter they just use it. Kinda olike turning on the light bulb. When the grandkids were younger they would get a chair and turn the lights on then off, on then off, etc......for hours. Now they are learning how to use the puter in kidergarten and primary school.

The other day the oldest, Bryson, said he had friends who don't own a puter . He thought that was strange.l Funny how the world has changed.



Thom

[dragonflyerthom]

Cont

One of the advantages of a electronic magazine is it could include some real videos of some of the members like Aussie Paul, Birdie, Chopper, and the other gyronauts from down under. They have invented a totally new way to use the Gyro in their work. This could be a whole new way for the midwestern ranchers to work their cattle. Cheaper than using the helicopter and more fun tooo. It could open up a new type of membership also.

There are pros and cons in this type of media.


Thom

[PW_Plack]

Guys, read again what Tim said...

...and/or sent out to members on a cd-rom...

You could opt to receive a CD in the mail. No internet connection is necessary to play CD-ROM files.

There would be some portion of the membership who'd want to keep getting the magazine in dead-tree form, and many of those would be life members. It's hard to tell someone that you're changing the deal after you already have his money.

[Dean_Dolph]

Paul, over the years I have used my copies of Rotorcraft as a reference library. That means I may have several copies open in front of me at the same time. I can do this at home, in a mall food court while the wife shops or wherever. A CD or Internet copy isn't going to allow me to do that. Plus I find that no matter how close I read things on a screen; I still miss things that I didn't see when I print a copy. I may be the only one in the world that has that problem but I doubt it.

Also, Rick Gilley told me the first time he printed out a color copy at home that it cost about $50 in ink! So, home printing certainly isn't a good choice given the ink cost and the wear and tear on the printer.

[WHY]

Hey Dean

Wouldn't take $5000 for my collection, (unless I knew where I could get o;ne like it for $1000)

Tony

[RayPierce]

How much does it cost to "print" 3500 copies of a cd?

Can't every issue of the magazine that has ever been printed be put on one single CD?

I bet at least a year's worth will fit on one.
Then that would solve Dean's problem of having multiple issues open at one time.
Plus the "word search" feature comes into play with most Windoze word processing programs.


How about an online archive where the issues can be downloaded, printed, burned, saved for a nominal charge?
That way non-members can help the PRA financially. We'll have a worldwide customer market instead of a member only customer base.

[WHY]

Hey Ray

online archive download for a fee, SUPER GREAT IDEA, would probably have to solicite some help from the membership for some of the old issues because of gaps in the archive at Hq. Would this be members only or general public?

Tony

[WHY]

Perhaps a specific fee for the non-member general public and a discount fee for members, may be a incentive to join?

I'M sure the big bottleneck here is the producing of the archive, going to take a lot of volunteer hours?????????????

Tony

[Dean_Dolph]

Ray, I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. I meant I want to have multiple mags open at the same time. That ain't gonna happen with a CD. And it sure isn't going to happen outside my home.

A web based mag in the member's only section is one of the features that have been discussed by some on the BoD. We can take all the polls we want but until the web site has that full feature member's only section we won't see any magazine there. First things first!

1. Money

2. Web Site Update

3. And then what ever

[KenSandyEggo]

"We have to remember that not all our members have access to or use the computer."

Being concerned about people that don't use the Internet is like being concerned about illiterate people who can't read the magazine. Maybe we should go to an all picture edition with no words. Progress can't be withheld for those that choose not to progress and stay in the dark. TMTCA.

[Heron]

I would pay an addicional fee to help those that have no access to a computer.
Still I think we should have printed issues with selected material for collection.
That is a great move, it could attrackt people that are looking in to participating in gyro activities.
Heron

[RayPierce]

Ray, I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. I meant I want to have multiple mags open at the same time. That ain't gonna happen with a CD. And it sure isn't going to happen outside my home.


Dean I know many people have unique situatuons.
But your statement above compels me to ask do you take ALL your magazines with you when you leave home?
A cd and a computer WOULD give you the capabilty to open at least 6 browser windows to search any cd and plus it gives you the added capability to look for specific words and phrases. The folder options that group topics together are endless limited only by your imagination unless.....you don't do computers.
A laptop and a cd is surely less cumbersome that a trunk load of back issues.
At home or away from home.
=============


Hey Ray

online archive download for a fee, SUPER GREAT IDEA, would probably have to solicite some help from the membership for some of the old issues because of gaps in the archive at Hq. Would this be members only or general public?

Tony


Tony
Why not both? It would increase the customer base.
As for back issues....may not be too bad if the any old computer files were saved that were used to send articles to the publisher.

For those that don't have computers and don't intend to get a computer then the printed issue should still be there for them.
And for Dean----:)

[Aussie_Paul]

but a survey and who has pc is a must. also some have DSL and others as me have dial up. so The size of the mag can not be big. I currently received several magazine in my profecion ( I am a Senior Buyer and logistic) so I get the email with all the highlights and then I got to theire web and read it. If I like it I can download. This couls be a good and cost effective way for PRA magazine.

I like that system Chuck. The mag could be availible in the members only section.

Aussie Paul. :)

[WHY]

Hey Ray

For me , both would be a must

Tony

[Udi]

I don't believe we should completely do away with the print version of Rotorcraft because that would cost us in membership. What I believe we should do first of all is create the infrastructure that will allow the PRA to offer an on-line version of Rotorcraft, PLUS additional material for members. These features, at a minimum, will add value to the PRA membership.

Once this infrastructure is in place we can do many things with it to save money and add additional revenue to the PRA. For example - as long as the printed version of Rotorcraft is printed in B/W, an on-line version might be in color. We may then ask members if they want to help save money for the PRA and opt-out of the printed version. This, at a minimum, will save a bunch of money in postage to the PRA.

One of the problems with Rotorcraft magazine is that it is not offered for sale to the general public in news stands and in stores. A magazine has to reach a certain critical mass before it is economical to sell in the news stands. I believe that many people are intrigued by gyros and would want to buy a copy of Rotorcraft once in a while. For these people, we can offer the magazine for sale on-line without them having to become members. People don't think twice about spending $5-6 on a magazine at a news stand. If we have the magazine on-line we can offer the on-line version for a reduced price or the print version for a full price. $5 will more than pay the incremental cost of printing another copy of the magazine and the cost of postage.

I agree with Chuck R. that the real stumbling block right now is the PRA web site. It would take a lot of work (and $) to make the PRA web site appealing to the general public. Then, programming and maintaining a member-only section and a commercial section (items for sale) will also take a lot of work. They say it costs money to make money and this is certainly true here. The PRA should attack this issue slowly but deliberately. We should lay out some long-term objectives for the web site and then start hammering at it. I believe that a well thought out web site will eventually pay for itself and help generate more revenue for the PRA, but it will not be built overnight and not without considerable commitment from the BOD and membership.

Udi

[M. Pearce]

Timchick,

I think they should just drop the magazine altogether.

Then the PRA would have absolutly nothing to offer the majority of it's members.

Compair the PRA to the EAA for one second and see how fast you think the PRA would disapeer.

Has anyone went to the EAA website lately to see what they have to offer it's members?

I think if the PRA made any negative changes about the magazine now it would go belly up within a year.

Go ahead, all you smart guys do what you gotta do and watch it sink like a rock.

I'd rather see the PRA go to a newspaper type paper than do away with it's only contact with non computer owning members.

My last issue of PRA magazine wasn't anything to bragg about anyway.

At least it was something to hold in my hand to read while on the toilet.

I have PRA magazines that are ten years old and loaded with information from good writers that weren't lazy and did their footwork.

If you ask me the content of todays magazine is crap compaird to back then.

Their is only one place to get a ginuine PRA magazine on this earth.

If you ask me the magzine is the PRA's lifeline, go ahead and jack with it until the PRA is history.

[RayPierce]

Don't do away with the magazine!!!

What I was talking about was "ADDING" a feature for members.
Also generating revenue from non-members or potential members.

Those that want the magazine get a magazine.

Those that want only the cd to save printing costs get the cd.
Those that want past issues on a cd can get one for a fee.
The PRA needs revenue and to put someting out that we are proud of instead of something "to hold in my hand to read while on the toilet."

Some of you are making this way too complicated when it isn't.
Look at the EAA website and see all the goodies they offer for sale. http://www.eaa.org/

Are you politicians or something? Politicans are the only ones I know that can take something so simple and make it so complicated.:eek:

[dragonflyerthom]

That is a good looking site Ray.

My cousins was a EAA member for 40 years. I would read all of his mags from cover to cover.


Thom

[Timchick]

Some very good ideas guys. I like the idea of having old issues down-loadable from the website for a small fee.

I wonder if the publishing costs of the mag could be shopped around to see if we can find a cheaper way to print it. Or has that already been done?

[PW_Plack]

If it has to be B&W for a while, going to newsprint seems like a reasonable option.

What about giving members the option to keep the old $40 dues, if they select electronic delivery?

As fiercely protective of their paper magazine as they are, I'm betting most PRA members are more fiercely protective of a $10 bill. :)

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Yes.
I think its a excellant idea.

Thank you.

Rehan

[Chuck Roberg]

I agree with Chuck R. that the real stumbling block right now is the PRA web site. It would take a lot of work (and $) to make the PRA web site appealing to the general public. Then, programming and maintaining a member-only section and a commercial section (items for sale) will also take a lot of work. They say it costs money to make money and this is certainly true here. The PRA should attack this issue slowly but deliberately. We should lay out some long-term objectives for the web site and then start hammering at it. I believe that a well thought out web site will eventually pay for itself and help generate more revenue for the PRA, but it will not be built overnight and not without considerable commitment from the BOD and membership.

One of our club members (Jim) designs and maintains web sites for a living. He voluntered his time to redo the PRA web site and to maintain it. He was told it needs a members only section. No problem he said.

So I Introduced Jim to Tim Blackwell, at the PRA convention, whom I was told was in charge of the web site. So far Jim is still waiting to hear what needs to be done with the PRA web site.

To see the web site he put together for our club, checkout:
gyroclub.com (http://www.gyroclub.com)
And he can do a lot more fancier stuff than that.

[gyromike]

Nice site, Chuck!

[rgraffeo]

I wonder if a sample CD could be sent along with one of the future issues to get some feedback from the membership.

[Dean_Dolph]

Dean I know many people have unique situatuons.
But your statement above compels me to ask do you take ALL your magazines with you when you leave home? Uh, no! 39 years worth of mags is a little much to drag outside the house. But a half a dozen or so isn't bad. A cd and a computer WOULD give you the capabilty to open at least 6 browser windows to search any cd and plus it gives you the added capability to look for specific words and phrases. The folder options that group topics together are endless limited only by your imagination unless.....you don't do computers. I'm not sure I do 'puters but I've been using them since the Commodore 64 and Apple II days and I have built two this year. But actually that isn't too difficult; it is the debugging that is a chore. But then both of my son-in-laws are IT guys so if I have a problem.....

I find the computer to be a good tool and I use it as such but I also find that I miss a lot of stuff on the screen that I pick up as soon as I print stuff out. And to have 6 windows open at the same time is something I don't want to even think about!

[dragonflyerthom]

Dean I would never figure you as a techie. Does an old man like me good to know there are more of us. It is fun sometimes to run more than one program and multi task when it is possible.


Thom

[Dean_Dolph]

Dean I would never figure you as a techie. Does an old man like me good to know there are more of us. It is fun sometimes to run more than one program and multi task when it is possible.


ThomThom, since I retired I avoid multitasking as much as possible! I plod thru one thing at a time and sometimes don't even do that much!

[Heron]

Is there a designated IT Manager for the PRA?
Someone that can coordinate the actions and analyze/suggest new ideas?
thanks
Heron

[Dean_Dolph]

Heron, I can't answer that except that I know Tim Blackwell is heading up the web site team and I suspect that he is serving as the focal point. And even if there were a designated IT person; there is IT guys and then there IT guys. IT is a broad field and so any one IT individual might not have the expertise needed to perform the work needed.

As far as taking ideas and analyzing them and then defining the requirements for the web site are concerned; it doesn't take an IT indvidual to do that. It just takes a little knowledge of what a web site is capable of and some imagination. In fact forum members have made suggestions that pretty much cover the bases and the BoD list probably has those suggestions and more under consideration.

Defining desires and requirements isn't rocket science but designing the web site to satisfy them is getting close.

[Heron]

See SEnsei?
Designated driver does not mean you gotta have MIchael Shumaker driving your car.
Whomever that person is and whatever knowledge it has, it is going to be our IT Manager.
I think you know what I am talking about all the time, you just have to respond in that convoluted way.
thanks
Heron

[richard lidke]

Booster Rich. I guess I am an old fuddy duddy, but I like the Magazine just as it is. It is a nice reference tool, and as "why" has said, it can easily be taken out to breakfast on a weekend.

It is nice to go to Mentone and select back copies for a reasonable price.

If we would all try to get another member for PRA it would help the magazine and everything else that is being worked on.

I enjoy the new magazine when I get one, and prefer to read it at my leasure without looking it up on the "e" every time. I would also pay a premium to keep "em" coming if necessary.

It is a lot of messing around to print something out, especially a whole magazine. If one does not have a computer, or a feature like a printer, the options become eliminated for those persons in that catagory.

There are many persons who do belong to PRA who may not have a computer, nor care to invest five bills to buy one just to get the magazine.

Thats my two cents. Worth it or not.

Booster Rich.:D

[Brent Drake]

I wonder how many of the poeple tthat voted is actually members of the PRA?

[Heron]

My guess is most of them!
And if they are not . . .why?
Let's get'em . . .
Speak up non members, please?
Heron

[barnstorm2]

My guess is most of them!
And if they are not . . .why?
Let's get'em . . .
Speak up non members, please?
Heron

That is a good question.

A few other things that have run through my mind about the poll:

We are polling internet users about an internet version of the magazine. How are the people that don't like to use the internet or computers going to be represented?

Far too many people are going to want a printed version. Perhaps a magazine supplement on the web (additional stories photos such) would be a happy medium.

Allow some members to "opt-out" of the printed version to save the PRA money.

Lastly: If I printed all of the years magazines on my ink jet printer I would have spent more in ink carts than I would have paid for my PRA membership.

[KenSandyEggo]

"How are the people that don't like to use the internet or computers going to be represented?"

The same as the illiterate members that can't read. You learn to read and/or you learn how to log onto a computer.....it's not rocket science.

[scottessex]

Yeah but the only time I get to read is in the head, guess I'm going to have to install hi-speed internet in the bathroom.

[barnstorm2]

Yeah but the only time I get to read is in the head, guess I'm going to have to install hi-speed internet in the bathroom.


:lol:

I like a paper version to read also..


How about a PRA pod-cast? Anyone want to volenteer to read each story into a pod-cast file? That would be cool! ;)

[gyro-3xio]

[The same as the illiterate members that can't read. You learn to read and/or you learn how to log onto a computer.....it's not rocket science.]
__________________
Ken,
I may sound that simple. Those that prefer not to use a computer are also the $$$ walking out the door. Can you afford to let them leave?
I thought the plan was to get $$$ walking in the door and join PRA.

Wish it were that so easy. Which is why I am relunctant to jump on the web/CD bandwagon. We could be riding a web/CD wheelbarrow instead.
And wheelbarrows are not as steady as a 4 wheeled wagon!!

However some very good ideas have been presented here.

Jim.

[Timchick]

Yeah but the only time I get to read is in the head, guess I'm going to have to install hi-speed internet in the bathroom.

Wireless router and a laptop! :painkiller:

[KenSandyEggo]

Just don't look at any girlie magazines when using the lap-top.

[Heron]

I believe we always get closer to have it available in two forms than the other way around.
Some people are thinking in the box, no one should be left out . . .
As I suggested long ago, half the issues and e-magazine in between.
And extra fee for it!
Association with another source of marketing also could help a lot, lots of crap is put inside the newspaper we buy (6 years as paper carrier) I think there will be some value added with gyro information.
thanks
Heron

[Mike Schallmann]

This is the 21st Century-- get on board --if your not using a computer - your out of touch with reality -- this IS the perferred method of communication for most people -- if you choose not to use it you WILL be left behind-- its kinda like the when cars became popular --lots of people stuck with the horse and buggy --they got left behind -there problem not ours!

[Harry_S.]

I'm sure there are some people...not many, but some...that would like to be on this forum; plus the other avenues a computer provides, but...they can't afford it. They couldn't afford the expense of the monthly charge of the ISP either.

There are some, no, there are many, less fortunate than we.

I take one for a ride every now and then. He truly loves it.


Cheers :)

[Aussie_Paul]

You (PRA BOD) can't please all of the people all of the time. The best is to try and please as many as possible for as much of the time as you (PRA BOD) can.

Aussie Paul. :)

[KenSandyEggo]

Most libraries have computers for public use free of charge.

[Brent Drake]

I prefer the printed one. I always carry a copy in the truck and show people that's interested in our sport. Lately I've been giving them a copy and hoping that they suscribe. Its hard to give someone an email address when talking. The IF they do not loose it and If they don't forget it. They might look it up once.

[Mike Schallmann]

Afford it --are YOU kidding -- If you can afford a gyro you can surely afford the internet -- computers are dirt cheap these days (less than the price of a decent prop) -and internet service is less than 3 gals of gas per month -- if some body is still using that excuse they just dont want to come into the 21st century----

ON EDIT: Heck even Ben --remember him --the pine prop guy --he is about as cheap as they come --even HE springs for the internet -if he can do do it ANYBODY can

On Edit --Second Time --If you really need a copy PRINT IT OUT YOURSELF- this saves the PRA money --and give you something to do!!

[Heron]

Before I left I discarded 8 computers that were all usefull and could do this job easily, the swap markets have pc's for 100 bucks.
And really . . .after the decision is made we are going to iron it out we will not leave our fellow members hanging believe me.
thanks
Heron