Little Wing Michigan Single Place

[mcbirdman]

Well, since I didn't go down to Indiana last weekend to work on the 3 two place machines I thought it was getting warm enough to work on the single place. Following are some photos of the windshield installation. Instead of using rivets and cutting and folding I decided to try something different.

I realized that instead of ending up with thick beads of silicone all over the machine I would use only two lead channels to seam the three pieces of glass together. I placed rubber U channell on the edge of both pieces of glass and stuck them in the channel. I then drilled small holes so that Nylon ties could hold the two pieces not only together within the channel but made sure it was looped around tubing to hold it down to the frame. This way I could bend the lexan up the sides, across the top and back down the sides in one piece that flows ... instead of sharp corners.

The lead allowed me to have the seams look 1/2 way decent and a lot cleaner - even with the ties. It is soft enough I can pinch it into the rubber to tighten it up. It isn't that I am going to leave this in the rain anyway but I think it will be fine.

Hopefully, I will only have to silicone a dab around each hole that was drilled for the ties. I hope it works, its not that expensive..... I think it looks nicer and now that I have a "pattern" should I ever have to replace it.... It won't be that hard to do. This will also help me decide how I want to do the windows on the 2 place.

BTW the brown is paper not peeled off the glass yet. A slight tint on skylight and above side windows.
Hope this helps and is interesting.... jtm

[mcbirdman]

This shows the channelling and U channel rubber on each end of the glass. Also note the Nylon ties. Will take a marker and make them black or eventually change them out to the yellow ones that are available.

[mcbirdman]

A slight tinted glass. I used .060 on top windows. A little thinner than plans but stayed with .080 for windshield. I added the rear upper window because I was concerned about me being low and an airplane landing behind me high and not seeing me.....

[mcbirdman]

I can tell you that the photos look better to me than the closeup detail work. It is hard trying to get everything to come together as if it were planned. All the edges and lines starting and ending .... Sure takes time.....
The way I figure it is that it will never be a show ship - it is my first - something I learn on so I guess I just feel like I want to get it done. I am mostly just doing cosmetic paint and trim type stuff. Like these optional windows..... If I didn't get them done - Oh well. Little did I know making the side windows like wings - just how much extra time it would take trying to make them look 1/2 way good.

[mcbirdman]

Notice how glass curves. That is how I wanted my machine to look. I didn't want the boxy look so I added stringers. I didn't want straight edged glass on a rounded machine. That is why we did this. The mast folds and we are still working on cutting out the notch, and sealing it. That bump in the rounded top center is where we are still working....

[mcbirdman]

Last one - gotta get to bed. I still feel this is a 4 foot machine. You need to stay back about 4 feet to get the overall feel of the machine. Any closer than that and I start remembering how beautiful other machines have been built and it reminds me that I am not even close. Simple things like painting yellow is not simple. I have to paint white first and then build up the yellow because it is so transparent. Even enamel. I was trying to paint all the tubes and thin it didn't hardly cover and thick enough to look like I was putting paint on - it ran.... I ended up feeling I couldn't even paint ! I just gotta move forward and do the best I can. Next one will be better.... Like I say, these photos look pretty good but up close I am not really satisfied... Nite !

[mcbirdman]

Not sure if these loaded ok for anyone looking. Here is another one downsized quite a bit as Mike G. suggested.

[Aussie_Paul]

Hang in their James, you are 10 times better than I at building. Nah, make that 100 times.

Aussie Paul.

[Screw]

Screw-In

Great Job!

Whatcha got hanging off the front (Engine)?

Screw-Out

[mcbirdman]

Hi Paul,

Thanks but I don't think it is true. I am just working at my skill level which is equal to a person that is learning by reading and just doing.... I am not a machinist by trade nor a painter. I wish I could make things look as clean as some machines I have seen. I seem to splatter this or that all over and have to clean it up. Fitting and refitting and recutting and resizing.... maybe that really is the way it goes in custom builds. Still I know it is ok, just not one of the kind of aircraft that has every single little detail handled with simplicity and beauty. I guess I like paint too much (lol).

John, it has the 2180VW engine. Dual mag, electric start, alternator setup. Two tanks on board with a fuel pump transfer system. Last year I got it to run great on 100ll. I then tried to put high octane in it and when I tried to start it it didn't want to run. Trying to decide if I need to go back to 100ll or adjust the timing and mess with richness settings.... I had just put in a EGT and then switched gas. I am not sure what would be better and then once I do then I will tweak to get it back to where it was before......

Any ideas? jtm

[Screw]

Screw-In,

I just started running Av-gas in mine, and it doesn't even run like the same motor. I feel like I'm sitt'in on a Porche! I'll never put car gas in it again!

Seems to run cooler too.

Screw-Out

[mcbirdman]

Hi John, that sounds great ! I did have it running quite well on Avgas. I was worried about overheating it so I ran it Rich. Ummm.... when I looked inside the exhaust pipes - If it were gold I would be Rich ! Then I started talking /listening to people that said avgas made it run hotter and was harder on the engine. That is why I tried the cargas and it acted like it was way out of adjustment. I guess I will just pour some avgas in it and see if it starts right up. Heck - there isn't much of a price difference anyways (lol).

I just got an email - words of encouragement about a guys frustration with painting. I will post it if he says ok. In the meantime I found the only spray that is yellow and really does cover... It is testors model spray. Comes in the color / shade of yellow I need and I wish I had tried it before I put windshield on. Anyway, things will hopefully go better now.

Thanks for the heads up on your porch- I mean VW engine performance.

jtm

[Screw]

Screw-In

Everybody I talked to about av-gas contradicted what people have told you. Because Av-Gas burns cleaner, it runs cooler than car gas. Because it is leaded, lead lubricates your exhaust valves, which is good for your engine.

My engine came from the factory pre-tuned for the exhaust and prop I would be running. It too was tested and tuned using 93 octain car gas. When I converted to avgas, I haven't had to change a thing. I flew the mess out it, over 11 hours in two day, and not the first problem. The heads never went over 400 degrees and the oil temp stayed between 160-170 degrees. The Mobile One synthetic oil still looks like it did when I poored it in.

One of the people who gave me the information about av-gas and VWs is Rick Ambercombie. He has been flying his 2130cc VW for almost 20 years. He is currently using Mobile One Synthetic and Av-gas. He works for Delta A&P, AI and has recently obtain a CFI rating.

The other Person is Scott Essex, who aslo works for Delta as an A&P. He has a pretty good knowledge about engines and who things work.

Neither one of these guys has steared me wrong.

Screw-Out

[mcbirdman]

Hi John,

Thanks alot. Looks like I have to grab the gas can and run down to the airport. That works for me. I knew I was running it wayyy to rich when I was first setting it up. It wasn't until I got the gauges on it I felt like I could bring it in.

When I was tuning in the richness I was sitting in it with the engine running. I was leaning it from the dash and watching rpms climb. All of a sudden I felt the tail rise and I was up on just the mains. I instantly cut the throttle and the tail dropped. The power came up so fast when it was tuned just right that it surprised me because it had been so anemic by comparison. It definately wanted to go and it sure sounded good. The brakes held as the frame rotated. When I try to do that I will be sure to tie the tail down if I am going to do any more "tuning".

Thanks again John - Avgas it is..... jtm

[CLS447]

John , how do the plugs look?

[StanFoster]

James: I think you are being a little modest. That is a beautiful piece of work. :) Happy building...and I am sure she will be a pleasure to fly.

Stan

[mcbirdman]

Hi Stan,

Thanks for your comments and interest. I am not sure if you remember seeing it though, I took it down to Mentone last year. It was parked next to your air command ( okay a few down). I had the blades put on it but the mast was raked back too far. At that time the stringers that I put in and my covering technique left me thinking I need to smooth out some things. I didn't hear one comment about the machine for the two days I was there until it was loaded on the trailer and then they were saying that they hoped to build some day. I saw many beautifully finished machines with showroom finishes on them and knew mine wasn't even close. I ended up feeling a little embarressed that the machine was displayed like that. I know this isn't a kit where you just bolt the frames together and follow the directions and spray this or that..... I work on one area a bit and then another so it will all come together. It is hard for me to know what to do and when because there is a lot happening and there isn't a book that I could just follow directions....

On the good side we are taking photographs of our 3 Little Wing 2 place airships getting built. I am hoping that documenting things and keeping track of material will help future builders. I know that our machines won't be the last built and I hope we are going to be able to help improve things somehow.

Oh yea, John, what is the weight of the oil you use? When I got the engine there wasn't much information that came with it. I have been writing down what other VW engines have been using for things like operating limits etc....

Thanks alot, hope to be at Mentone, jtm

[GyroRon]

I hope to be able to have time and good weather to be albe to fly up to Mentone this summer. I have yet to see any tractor gyro fly yet - although at ROC last year I tryed my best to get a Pitbull tractor gyro in the air since the owner wasn't used to taildraggers and I am not sure he had much gyro time either, the gyro never got off the ground, not enough power or something... - Anyway I really want to see a little wing fly and if I got real lucky I might get a flight in one. I want to buy another gyro and really like the little wing concept. Just need to see how she handles...

[mcbirdman]

Hello Ron,

I know that last year there were two of them there. One of them (not mine) did do some flying. I can tell you that when it flys you can just see how stable it is. When I went to Texas Convention it was windy and you could see that when the LW took off and flew - and being larger if there was airframe pitching about it would have been even more obvious - you could see it took it all in stride. In fact I remember something about some other people standing around saying something about noticing how much smoother it seemed to fly... Don't know - just doing it would tell you everything you wanted to know.

The one flying was Rons Radial engine and not only did it sound like a normal aircraft--- but it looked great. I will try to attatch a post for you to see. My dad was telling someone else about how last summer I had my flying partner bring our Archer in so my dad could finally see what all this is about. He told his friend that with all the flyby's going on - all these little engines sounding like boat motors and snowmobile engines (his words) he said it smoothly swooped down and reminded him of the 20-30's flying.

I did not make note of Mentone Days and hope I didn't book a wedding that day. If so I will be there in one way or another for at least static display. I don't know if Ron will have his two place there for rides or not. I haven't seen him ever give anyone a ride. Dave Dewinter posted on the Little Wing Website that the LW is hands down the easiest to fly bird of any type he has ever flown. I have also been told that it flys like a 150 and you only have to worry about rotor/ground handling. I don't know because I have been kinda busy.....

I look forward to seeing more of these aircraft and I am sure that you will without a doubt. I am pretty sure we won't have the airframes for the 3/2place machines being built as we are tied up making all the small parts. We have two side frames tacked and just got done pressing in the inserts for the cross pieces for all the a/c. We just added the brake drum brackets and the shock mounts to the 3 sets of gear. We tack welded it and turned it over to welding department. 3 Sets of gear now finished as far as our department goes.

Today I am going back to single place to do more painting on Single place. I am going to have to figure out where to cut the holes in the back window for the three push pull tubes and going to do more prep to redo the pinstriping on engine cowl.

I am pretty sure you will get to see Ron fly at Mentone. He likes to make it there.

talk to you soon, jtm

[KevinKing]

I didn't hear one comment about the machine for the two days I was there

That's because everyone was distracted by that shiny Rotec on Ron Herron's gyro. Or at least I was, anyway.

[GyroRon]

Well I give glowing flight reports too, Maybe Ron H will let me "demo" one of his machines like Dave did. I won't need a booster seat to see over the dash!

[mcbirdman]

Hi Kevin-

A lot of people were impressed with that beautiful engine. It just looks right on that machine.....

It makes the whole aircraft stand out more. Still, anyone can buy an engine if you have enough money and it will look good. I am more impressed with the type of things that you just can't buy and have to create. Most people may not have noticed his locking stick, the new redundant push pull setup or his automatic flap limiters. I think that stuff is way more cool because he thought about issues and did something about them.

As for mine, I figured that if I didn't hear anything good or bad then it wasn't an awful job and I already knew it wasn't the greatest, so it was kinda what I expected, which was okay. Ron did show me how to make the mast folding which I did think would have been of interst also.

Looked on my calender. I have to leave Friday night from Mentone since I do have a Wedding to photograph. I have to work to help pay for all the parts that we are buying for the other build projects but I would stay if I could. I hear some people come early, maybe thats what I will do so I can spend some time there.

What I wonder is how many other LW's will show up. There are several other project out there .....

[RHerron]

Jim,

Don't take it to seriously about people not commenting on your machine. If your finish was slicker, it would have been totally different.
When you have finished your 2-place you will have a lot more experience and will be able to put a show-finish on one. It isn't that hard.
Actually, my machine with the radial is a bit rough. (fortunately, the radial distracted folks!) Its finish is about 8 years old and has been many miles in the air and on the trailer.
I am hoping Andy Keech will fly his over to Mentone. If I can bring two, I will.
Ron A., I would gladly have let you fly the LW when I had the VW engine on it.
I am a little picky with the radial...at least for now. Still, the new may be worn off enough by Mentone for me to reconsider. I assure you, it wouldn't be like your PitBull experience ar ROC.

[GyroRon]

No problem Ron, just be ready to sell me one if they fly as good as I think they will. I am going nuts here not having a gyro to fly right now. We took Barrys gyrobee down and he is swapping out the 447 rotax for a 503 I bought from Mike Bantum at Bensen Days. It looks like it will take a while for Barry to get the time to get the swap out done.

[mcbirdman]

Hi Ron,

It is true I have learned alot. (learning) I have gone from just wanting to fly to realizing I would have to complete some sort or project. This Single place project is like having a house painter decide to paint a portrait. It isn't that he can't do it - but it will be a growing and learning experience. I guess I have an experimental covering on an experimental (lol) I tried to do everything else like making the automatic rotor flap limiters and the mast/holes fit tight and proper. I do feel like I am the turtle in the rabbit race. I could have bought a kit and been done or, as I have chosen, picked an awesome machine that I can enjoy 10x more.
Thanks Ron, jtm

[Chuck Irby]

That sure is nice work James. It's really looking good.

[mcbirdman]

Hey Chuck,

What would you rather be doing? Would you be happy building something neat but busy enough with a long project you couldn't fly for quite a while and would you be content knowing you aren't flying but, when you do...........

OR knowing how much fun you are having flying - all the memories you are making -just get in the air and wish you had taken the BIG project ?....

HELP ! ALL I SEE IS YELLOW AND BLE PAINT EVERYWHERE ! WHAT SHOULD I DO ?

jtm

[Chuck Irby]

James, that's a tough one. Can't you fly something else while you're doing such a great job on the one you're building? That would be my preference, if I had a choice. Otherwise, stick it out. It'll be worth it. Can you see the light at the end of the tunnel yet? If not, look harder.

[mcbirdman]

Hi Chuck,
Good one, the have a cake and eat another too ! lol Yea, I think holding out for the big one is best.... But I took your advice and looked harder and guess what ! It's all the yellow spray on my eyeglass lenses. I cleaned them off stepped back 4 feet and WOW - PRETTY GOOD ! lol

[Chuck Irby]

Way to go, James. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted please.

[mcbirdman]

Well, lots of changes over the last several months. At the new house located in the same square mile as the airport I built 2 hangars that allow the gyro projects to be stored ready for flight. I have been working on the 2place also but decided to start pushing on the SP. I made the little car tow bar so that I can haul it down to the airport and have been starting to go over all the details that need attention before she flies.

I ran her for a while today and it brings it up to 2 hours Hobbs time. I readjusted my rotor brake so I can push full forward with brake on and lock the stick so it will stay hands free.

I moved the pt talk switch into the multifunction joystick handle and have tested the radio. Looks like it is time to take it down the road and use the airport property to get the engine broke in...... Last year we ran it a while and then reset the valve lash. Wasn't sure how it would run but she started right up and runs nice. Here are a few photos I grabbed. Not sure how long it will take before she goes but she is moving toward that end with every step ....... jtm

[GyroRon]

You going to bring it to Mentone? I know a test pilot that will be there that still wants a chance to fly a Little Wing!

It looks good, looks ready. Only thing that I saw that caught my eye was the picture of the panel.... I know this sounds picky, but I am used to seeing the airspeed indicator on the left and Altitude on the right.

How well does the tow dolly work?

[Aussie_Paul]

Gee, I remember that view over the panel. Looking great James.

Aussie Paul.:)

[mcbirdman]

Hi Ron,

Not sure, It depends on if I get everything worked out. There are tweaks to be done but today I pre rotated the blades a bit, got the rotor tach working.

At first, I was checking the wiring voltage for the PR because it wouldn't engage. I thought for a moment and got out the..... you guessed it .... black rubber hammer..... I put a little you guessed it...... duct tape on it so as not to leave black marks and tapped the starter..... I think it sat so long it needs to be worked a bit. Anyway..... it was cool to hear the blades whizzing around. I got the rotor brake to work fine and the stick lock works so that it gets locked forward when you want but the rotor brake switch has to be engaged if you intend to stop the rotor when you push full forward....

I will just keep pushing forward to see how far I can get. I don't mind the offer to fly my gyro but I am not sure if a busy meet is the best place to do it though..... Let me see how far I can get with things and if things go well and I get some engine time on it etc..... finish up the few remaining things.... maybe I will bring it down. I wasn't planning on it though because it is hard to bring a camper and a gyro down and I also hate sleeping in tents when it is hot.....

Paul, like the view out there? It really isn't that restrictive is it? Hard to show all you can see with a small camera, even I can't do it justice.

[mcbirdman]

Oh yea,

I forgot to mention - My radio, carb heat, throttle, are all on the left side so you don't have to take your hand off the stick...... There is no speed adjustment (except the throttle lol) so I just left it there to the right so I could also adjust pressure altitude.

The dolly is great for straight forward down to the airport and with the wheel close to the hitch it should improve the ride using the shocks more than the little wheels to float on. I realize that backing up is going to be a problem but not for the trip down to the airport as intended. Shoot - If I had to back up all I have to do is unsnamp the hitch and shove it around where I want it or move the car, rehitch and go..... A simple way to get it there at least......

[GyroRon]

I like the tow dolly thing, looks like a good idea if you live close to the airport and want to keep it home instead of paying hangar rent.

As far as bringing the gyro to Mentone, that is your call. I would not have any reservations flying it there, as I am sure you built it 100 percent correctly and maybe Ron Herron and some of the other Little Wing guys will be there to look it over too. If the thing is in balance and the engine has the power to fly it, and the engine will keep running, I can fly it pretty much from whereever.

It does have the airworthiness certificate and all that already?

[StanFoster]

James: That sure is a nice looking gyro..... Hope to see it in person at Mentone should you decide to bring it.

Stan

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Stan - she isn't anywhere near perfect but I have been doing my best. I had her down 2 years ago and it was sitting about 2 down from your air command.....

She is under max gross weight although she is heavier than empty weight published. Ron said that if ..... I gotta retrieve the old email...... if she is producing XXXX thrust then the weight shouldn't be a problem and that I may have to get 25' wings. Well, not sure on thrust but will work on that here soon...... but she already has the 25 footers :)

Today I remounted the rotorbrake control to just behind the mast above my head and it works much better without the extra bends in the control wire. I am much happier with that.

I worked on the wheel pants and made them fit much better and securly.

I will be looking at the suspension next to make sure that is up to par....

I now have a 62/28 prop that is 2" larger than the originally recommended size a few years ago. Engine temps and startup are all good. I made a thrust tester but I want to get some more time in before winding her all up just yet....

Rotated up to 150 today and it was neat to hear all the whirring of the blade tips....... Works very nicely. First time I have done that with this machine.

Taxied her to the front yard today and it started right up. Usually I find I choke it and crank til she coughs. I turn choke off and she starts right up on next try.

Yes, she was certified by Tom Milton last summer.

I added a fuel pump that bypasses when it is turned off but when I start I turn it on and that seems to get her to start more quickly by making sure the fuel is where it needs to be.

I still have a wet cell (small tractor battery) that needs to replaced. I put off buying a good battery since it wouldn't have done any good up to now.... Not sure how big to get or how much I need or even if it will weigh less or not but ....... I'll keep pushing to see how far I get with things...... jtm

[mcbirdman]

Oh yea, I gotta get some trim springs figured out also. I did some hang tests and we are doing good......

[animal]

I love that paint job, looks like the old scallops of the monocoupe 110. love the yellow and blue also. should really look sweet when flying over head.

[animal]

am I seeing right? is your tow dolley a hand truck with a hitch on it?
hope you don't have to go far,not sure how much I would trust the wheel bearings in a hand truck. but other then that,it looks like it works great.

[mcbirdman]

Thanks animal.

yep - like I said less than 1/2 mile to runway threshold. I moved the tail almost all the way to the hitch so there is virtually no weight on the wheel except that of the cart itself. We will be going slow and easy and yes we will keep the axle greased that is easy enough. Towing down to mentone is another thing though..... I am going to have to rethink using the big tandem axle one I usually use. It is too much. Thinking of getting a car dolly with a tail boom support so it can track down the road the same as it flys..... Looking forward to coming to Mentone to meet more of you and let you know how the 2 place machines are coming if there is any interest. I don't have a wedding that weekend so I will be there longer.

I may be bringing my brother with me this time. My brother has flown in more helis than I ever have but has never got a ride in a gyro. I hope to change that.

[KenSandyEggo]

"I don't have a wedding that weekend so I will be there longer."

How often do you get divorced and remarried???

[mcbirdman]

let me rephrase that..... lol

I am not getting paid to shoot anyone at a wedding that weekend ;)

Watch it Kenny - I think it would be neat to shoot you flying your cool red machine.... and with rumors like that my wife WOULD shoot me !

[Aussie_Paul]

Hi Ron,

Paul, like the view out there? It really isn't that restrictive is it? Hard to show all you can see with a small camera, even I can't do it justice.

It is definitely not as good as a pusher gyro for visibility James But a very enjoyable machine to fly. Not my cup of tea as I require different parameters BUT you will not be disappointed with the flying and visibility from your machine.

Congratulations for hanging in there with the project. It will be great when someone comes up with a tractor gyro kit. Then we will see a proliferation of tractor gyros. My bet is on Jim Mayfield!!!

Aussie Paul.:)

[Jazzenjohn]

Paul, do you think you should be showing those pictures?

[Aussie_Paul]

Paul, do you think you should be showing those pictures?

I was unsure what to do John, but to be able to show James what he will be seeing soon, I believe is worth it. Two pics is all that is needed BUT I will remove them if posters so wish. Maybe James can send me his email and I can send them to him directly, and remove them from the forum.

Aussie Paul.:)

[animal]

Thanks animal.

yep - like I said less than 1/2 mile to runway threshold. I moved the tail almost all the way to the hitch so there is virtually no weight on the wheel except that of the cart itself. We will be going slow and easy and yes we will keep the axle greased that is easy enough.

Ok I must have missed where ya said it was 1/2 mile,yeah thats not bad. you could tow it that far with a lawn tractor as close as that is.

[mcbirdman]

That second shot Paul is what I mean about visibility. Most small cameras will only show out the front window in the view but like your second shot it reminds you that a couple inches either shoulder is actually a wide panoramic view available all the way back to the tail. I know, you can't see past your shoes like a lot of pushers for sure but there is much more outside view available than say a c 150.

Today I am going to check over the torque tube setup and end joints to make sure everything is finished. Not sure what other little tasks I will work on but sooner or later I will get to the end of the list of things to do....

my email is take out all x's xxxxmcbirdmanxx@yahoo.comxxxx I know there were problems but any useful information is always welcome.

Tim, if I leave a tractor there it might end up on someone elses trailer. Maybe I have to "tie" the tractor down....

[mcbirdman]

Well, today the engine came off. We are going to figure out what is holding us back. There is no reason that a properly set up engine shouldn't be expected to be putting out much more than 220 lbs thrust and we are going to find it. I was wanting to spend time ground handling but I decided that more important than that is reserve power so I took her off today by myself. I will place a few photos and as sorry as it looks it is the start of a change for the better.

It will take some trips back down to the Mentone area but what the heck - 3 hours trips? We were doing that to go see Rich on the 2 Place machines.

Ron - Power on the way..... we'll figure this out.

[chuter]

Such is the life of the experimental aircraft builder. It may seem like a lot of work, but it's getting you closer to the goal.

Keep us posted.

[mcbirdman]

That's true for sure.... I am not down - things went way better at Mentone than expected. It gave me the GO to get in there and finish figuring all this out.

Here is a few photos taking it all apart. Going down to see Jim Holbrook in Warsaw Indiana hopefully in the next few days. Anyway here are a few builder photos in reverse......

[mcbirdman]

Update: Engine teardown. Jim Holbrook called yesterday about my engine problems. They are all fixable but so far he has found gasket glue inside the engine, the wrong rings used, valve seals missing and the wrong shims on cylinders resulting in too small a clearance between head and cylinder head so that compression is off.

Basically he said that engine was put together wrong with possibly the wrong parts so that only one cylinder was doing all the work. Blowby in two cylinders was causing backpressure to blow oil out through the case and the third cylinder was getting so much contamination of the charge (with the oil) that it was just fouling the cylinder.

Jim is engraving the flywheel for timing marks, going to fix all the above problems and wait on deciding if the updraft carb will even be a factor.

I guess if Ron was able to do that much with the machine only pulling 210-220 at 2900rpm range then we should have an awesome engine when we start using the other cylinders as intended. The power really starts coming in at 3200+rpm and we are not there yet. Well, that is it for all for now - progress is being made.

[mcbirdman]

Well, I am back working on reinstall of the engine. I had reset the engine on the mount by myself but there were a few issues I have been thinking about in terms of a long life engine. The main issue is cooling and Jim Holbrook made me some cooling baffles for the cylinders only but it prevented me from placing the top cowl without cutting a bit into the fiberglass - so I took them off. I've been looking at J-3 cubs from a distance and see how they basically have let the air come in the top and hook around the back of the cylinders and come out the bottom to help prevent hot spots. I know that with the shrouding it doesn't look so simple and clean as it did but I am trying to keep the engine cool - the main thing about VW's.

Here are some photos of the new cowling I made this last weekend which is much better suited for the setup than 1)nothing 2) Jim Holbrook doing his best but not knowing the cowling shape. I know - not all the bolts are in place. When I say fabricate - I mean hand working the metal to make the the curves go where you want them. No metal brake here ! I just didn't know if I needed to make the opening even bigger or not but once we get engine running we can see some temps. Sometimes I surprise myself. I stared at it so long and just started working until I thought it looked right. Now that I haven't seen it for a couple days I look at it and think - cool - who did that? I used rivits to hold the floating nuts and to access the plugs you only have to take about 5 screws out on a side and pull the side panel. I think it looks kinda neat but also looks right.

I hope this will keep the temps just right. It isn't that we had a problem it is just that I keep hearing about the lifters in the back always getting affected by the heat. I want a 1000 hr engine not a 100.

We do know that the engine is MUCH better than before and surpassing the best numbers that Joe T was able to get and Steve at Great Plains with the Mike Howard Little wing. They both were getting around the 220lbs thrust trying everything if i remember right. Then Mike was saying that he only got 200ft / min climb.

Well, I am going to do a thrust test with the same device we used last year but on Jim Holbrooks test stand he was able to increase the thrust by 100lbs.
at 320 static. We are still @ 3000 rpm and think that when it is going down the runway it will pick up another 10-15%. The vw powercurve is still climbing at 3000 and should be able to pull up into the 32-3400 rated range.

Here are some photos - hope you enjoy them.....

Also - I am wondering - should I paint it Black? Wire brush? Is that going to get too hot to paint it blue? Maybe leave it silver except for the two sides painted blue....

[StanFoster]

James: I saw Ron fly your gyro at Mentone...and I bet you are excited about another 100 pounds of thrust. I know it was thrust challenged...so this should be a BIG improvement. Are you bringing it back to Mentone this year?

Stan

[mcbirdman]

Hi Stan,

Yes I plan on bringing her. I Think I have a wedding on that Sunday so I will have to be home by Saturday night sometime but I believe I will stay a few days this time.

I haven't asked Ron if he was interested in trying again but I think he was just getting the feel of it......

I told him we would be putting more horsy sauce in it. I hope it is enough. If it isn't - we will be taking that heavy paintjob off and doing a better - lighter paintjob based on Ron H's methods.

Yes I am really excited about the way she runs. We had her up to 6000rpm on a test stand with a flywheel attatched and she is a champ. We don't have any leaky rings or backpressure causing the oil to shoot out of the case. If we get the rpms up a little over the shoulder we had before - the power curve starts really climbing and the airflow feeding it will allow it to push beyond the spot we were stuck at.

There is one other matter we have to fix before we try to fly it - besides the other issue of finding out if Ron is interested in it this year. He was just getting used to it but did the best he could do with the engine not running full up. If not I will probably leave it up here where we can run the engine and working towards flying her but I would rather have someone more experienced than myself. I only have time in 3 types. Jim L's RAf, Steve M's Parsons trainer, and Terry E's Sparrohawk.

No matter what happens I am going to keep pushing forward as much as I can. It has been kinda of a hard year.

[GyroRon]

James, I look forward to flying it at Mentone. Email me privately about one issue I have with it though, and we need to get that addressed well in advance of the fly-in.... See ya.

[magilla]

Sounds like you are going to really enjoy that extra thrust!!

Man, your LW looks awesome.

As to the shrouds: Like the Rolling Stones said, "Paint It Black"

If the performance still suffers with 320 lbs thrust,

GO WITH A REDRIVE from Valley Engineering. They are on version III with an idler pulley that makes it run so smooth...If I didn't already have a redrive, i would order one from them.

Thrust offfset is 6.5 inches with the redrive, but with the CG being so far back, all you will have to do is maybe change the incidence angle on your HStabs or add a shim or two to the engine mount. Then again, Screw had LW with the VE redrive, and when he talked to Ron Herron, Ron said there were no issues with the offset thrust.

6.5" inches means you can swing AT LEAST a 13 inch longer prop and maintain the same clearance. As you well know, prop size makes all the difference in producing thrust.

I look forward to hearing about your progress. I will let you know how the Jungle Gym flies with my VW and redrive with 80x56 prop. Since it was originally made for a Storch replica, the 56 pitch equates to a 90mph cruise. I will probably need to repitch it to a 46 or 48 for max static thrust...

Nice work on the cooling shrouds!!

Not to hijack the thread, but do you have plans for the cowl you have? How did you make it?

I am not a sheetmetal guy, but if you have a set of plans, I sure would like to have that cowl on my tractor!!

[Jim]

James,

I have been following your progress with great interest ove a long time. Well done!

I am also sorry to hear of your problems. You wrote: "Basically he said that engine was put together wrong with possibly the wrong parts so that only one cylinder was doing all the work. Blowby in two cylinders was causing backpressure to blow oil out through the case and the third cylinder was getting so much contamination of the charge (with the oil) that it was just fouling the cylinder. "

As I am getting more interested in VWs as a reliable powerplant, I want to learn more: Where did you get this engine? --- From Great Planes? Who put it together?

Thanks for your help.

Hope it will be running soon!!

Jim

[mcbirdman]

Hi Spencer-

I agree that I may have needed a redrive if all I could get is a 220 lbs thrust. Joe Termanilla and Mike Howard both related to me similiar thrust outputs. That is why I didn't know that something was wrong with the engine. Joe said if he didn't get more thrust he was going to let it go.
Last I knew he said he put some mod in it that he hoped would give it more power and next I knew it was up for sale.

I had been frustrated like he had been with those numbers and when I found out that Steve at Great Plains worked on Mike H.'s machine and got the same results - I thought this was all a VW has.... I mean if these talented people can't get more then why should I have think I should do any better.

Then I talked to other people and they said that it was possible and they looked at things a little differently. Yes, I could do a redrive but the engine rpm directly affects TBO time. Yea, my engine turned 6000 rpm and didn't self destruct but I am not looking for a race engine. The engine in the Precepter aircraft are based on a rpm of 3200-3400 cruise. I think that I could scream my engine for a while at 3400-4000 for a while but that is like redlining it all the time we are flying. I see those huge horsepower VW's hopped up but they race a few times and rebuild. That is not what I am looking for. Jim H. showed me the forumula that shows how you can get more power at higher rpms and it all looks good but it seems to push past the fact that we are already doubling the original h.p. before we even start to factor in revving the motor up.

I know Ron got by just fine with his VW and it is possible to do so without all the redrive stuff. If I get the machine up to a reasonable thrust - I will just lighten it because of my "excellent paint and cover job". I have mentioned before that it was my first cover job and I put so much paint and sealer and primer and..... on it that we could bounce cannon balls off it. Ron Said just prime it and paint it. His has lasted for years. With as many gallons on it as I used I know I can save a substantial amount of weight by stripping it off and putting a couple coats on it and calling it good.

This way we already know we have 100 lbs more thrust and then get some weight off it. This is the plan, and we did the first 1/2. Ron said don't throw the baby out with the bathwater yet because he said it may just be fine.

It didn't appear he had any kind of cooling tins but I figured since I was heavier I would have to be heavier on the throttle which meant more heat and I wanted to help it all I could. The J-3's had similiar cooling tins and knowing that it likes to burn the back cylinder and eat the valves I have been warned that the key is to get air back around there for longevity.

Okay, the question on the cowling. It is from preceptor a/c. They make the superpup, N3 and a STOL of some sort. The airframes are so similiar that I bought the header tank from them and the fiberglass cowling. No big deal.

But the bottom line here is that the VW has been used in many a/c and it is a good engine if taken care of regarding aircooling. The problem is that there are many opinions on what to do with them to hot rod them and running them faster isn't the magic answer. It is all a tradeoff and that is one thing isn't different than race car engines and airplane engines.

I am going to have to check in with Jim Holbrook and see how he is doing on the VW redrive project we left him before winter to work on. I hope he has made the time to do some testing. We are thinking about redriving the VW on the two place and we want to do some durability testing.

Good luck spencer , jtm

[magilla]

I ended up buying Joe T's machine...

I was fortunate that I found out about Valley Engineering and Culver Props through barnstormers.

I bought a used 100hp VW with redrive and prop, and then went up to Rolla, MO to see Gene and Larry Smith.

First of all, great folks, and they are very knowledgeable about VWs. In fact, they have a relationship with Steve at Great Plains - Steve sells the VE redrive, and the VE guys "heartily recommend" the Great Plains VW engine if you don't get their combo package.

Anyway...you really need to see the video of their backyard flyer, and what a large prop can do for thrust...

Their airplane takes off in about 50 feet and rockets skyward...It is an amazing thing to see. www.culverprops.com and go to the redrive section, and the section on the backyard flyer and watch the videos.

The interesting thing is that they get the power through the redrive and larger prop, not necessarily through RPMs.

With a bigger prop, like my 80 inch Culver, the redrive is 1.92:1, so the engine will only ever get to 3400 on take-off.

The prop will be at about 1800 rpm, and the tip speeds will be really low. but WHOA, the thrust is awesome.

The VW engine I have is set to run 3800 max on take-off, and cruise about 2900. I don't think that is "racing" this engine. Heck, with the pitch on my prop right now, I don't think it'll make 3400 rpm static.

The numbers show that in an ideal world, with ideal conditions, that my prop should produce 450++ lbs of thrust.

Their redrive set at 2.47:1 and a 96 inch prop pulls over 540lbs thrust.

However, at this point it is all conjecture for me and my gyro: I have about two weeks of tweaking until I get it running. i will lwt you know what happens.

I wouldn't worry about redrives right now - just see how that baby performs now with the new motor!!

Can't wait to see how she performs!!

[WHY]

Hi Spencer

Am also interested in the re-drive option on the VW but have one question that bothers me. First is the drive end of the engine using a bearing like the "Force One " or what is it using and the reason for this concern is this, all that power is going to the re-drive thru a belt which is going to put quite a "Radial" load on that bearing and am not sure that the original bearing will take that kind of radial load for long,

Tony

PS. live close enough to Rolla to be aable to fly the 150 up and talk to them when the time comes.

[mcbirdman]

Hi Spencer,

With Great Plains they say cruise between 32 and 3400

On the ground I could only get a little less than 3000 with my prop with a 2180cc engine rated at 70hp continuous. You are right about real world - that is why I am trying to do it with a VW lol. It is worth putting a bit of money into trying what other people have had tried and been sucsessful at with a little "engineuity" ( new word? ).

I won't go to third change until I know how well this works but I do know that engines are overated so much that unless you're an engine man that knows how it all fits together in regards to actual performance - we are just guessing based on marketing information. The best we can do is try to piece it together into something that works.

For now, I will hold off on the redrive. It is great to see you take on a VW and try to get a rocket ship out of it. My guess is that you will get good static thrust but then poor cruise speed but honestly, I am only basing it on what I have been reading and doing - the hard way.

If your thrust tests work out it would be great ! Everyone likes high thrust engines and I would love to see the VW's come back to favor as a relatively inexpensive but reliable power house. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you as you get closer to testing. I love to see tractors flying, and it would be exciting if your engine performed that much better.....

If Steve could only get 220lbs thrust and you can get twice that with a few changes? I hope it isn't too good to be true. I guess with a proper running engine we know know we can get 320lbs so now we have to see if we can pick up the extra 200 lbs somewhere...... Will the prop give 100 and the redrive 100? Thanks for keeping us informed. I know there are others out there thinking VW also - the problem seems to partially be that we have lost some knowledgeable VW'ers through the years as they retired out and interest shifted to more modern engines...... Nothing wrong with that though... We still like the Ram engine lineup in Ohio and depending on what we find with our VW guy - are keeping an eye on him..... Take Care Spence. jtm

[mcbirdman]

Tony - you're right. I looked into the redrive from Great Plains and Steve said because it had the force one bearing I couldn't put the redrive on it. I would have had to get another case and transfer everything into the new case. All that plus it was a rubber belt setup which my engineer isn't too fond of. It causes heat issues and robs power. Plus, I might be wrong but the belt had to be changed every so many (few) hours and they were expensive. It was like adding a few dollars an hour on every flight just to pay for the band life.

I am not against redrives, at first it seemed like all I would have to do is add it on and problem solved but there are tradeoffs and running a vw engine hard with higher rpms directly affects engine longevity. I hope there are truly new advances that may help us get the power out of them reliably as Spencer is banking on. If it is true - it helps everyone on a budget that can't afford to touch a Rotax or Rotac. There are so many problems including the radial load it just makes you wonder. Tony - I forgot what kind of a tractor you are building. Are you the one making a 4 seater out of a plane? Sorry. jtm

[WHY]

Hi James

Yes was building one out of Cessna 150 fuselage but got in over my head so abandoned it, now ame building one from "Texas Parasol" fuselage (single place)

Tony

[mcbirdman]

Okay, I remember writing back and forth about it a bit and you letting me know you thought it was a significant thrust increase and that you think the Prince Prop would be of use which I found helpful. Especially when I felt I was up against a knowledge wall. Thanks again for the encouragement when I was frustrated a bit.

[mcbirdman]

okay, time for the update.

I got the engine all back together. I did not put the cowling back on yet.... I need to check on the carb heat. I am not getting the same results as before.

I know that the test that I have done has a lot of problems with it but I am not sure what the total effect would be if these areas were worked on.

First, I am on the grass. I don't know but tires looked low. Ground is still soft. I tied up to the tailwheel. I don't know if the gauge is calibrated.
All I was anxious to look at is how much more power we had based on the same gauge and same setup out back as when we tried last year.

What I found is that the engine runs MUCH better. It does not have to be tweaked all over to go to full power. I got 3180 rpm I believe. The tail just lifted up and seemed so solid - no lag, just instant moving forward.

I put a safety strap around the empenage just in case and started her up. I have been running her around on ground for another hour today and was anxious for a number comparison. What I found was that it still only indicated a little over 200lbs with the same meter.

Is it possible that the liquid that leaked out of the meter can affect the reading? It is possible that the soft ground has let the wheels get in a cupped situation. I also think that I tied to the tailwheel before.

Should I be IN it when pulling? It lifts the tail right up with me in it and I know there is a loss in lbs just lifting it. The straps are NOT brand new but certainly didn't look old but I just felt it was safer to add the extra line just in case.

I realize that thrust tests are not all telling but I had hoped the new thrust would show up on my hydrolic cylinder at least MORE than before. I guess I need to forget the comparison and just setup on level pavement, hold up the tail and raise the attatchment point a little.

I hitched up the strap to the cylinder using the metal "S" hooks provided. I had it pulling against a swingset post that is cemented into the ground and IMMEDIATELY cut the power when I felt the strap let go at the stitches on the "S" hooks. I am so glad that I took the time to be safe as it didn't do much except lurch forward a couple inches.

So now, I know we have alot more power, the thrust tests were done on a test stand indicating 320 static but my background tests showed no difference.

I guess I have to do it again, just so I know.... but at the same time..... Before it got hotter than the 1200 egt and only turned like 2800 or so? and was overheating. Running around the yard in the grass engine stayed under 300 and simply pulled it up hills and wanted to go.....

I can see where we can probably expect the power curve to head up to 3500rpm on takeoff and were only getting engine temps between 3-330 degrees and egt was still in the 1200 range. Bottom line is that I think it is there but there is no way to prove it unless Ron or I end up making some runway runs.... So, since we only have a few hours on this rebuild - I will keep running it to break it in but I am happy with the rpms, the CHT and EGT temps I saw today. Braking the strap also made me think that we must have been pulling more than 200lbs. I know that strap would have held me so....I will go on to wiring for a while.

If I do the test, I will be on flat pavement. Tires inflated. How can I factor in the taildragger? Lift and support the tail? Should I be in it? We are going to get there - we may be there already I just can't prove it yet..... Any suggestions or other helpful things to consider? I want to get this all worked out before Mentone. Thanks. jtm

[GyroRon]

James, my advise is to order from Walmart.com a scale called a " Big game and fish scale "

This will read up to 440 pounds and only costs like 20$ with shipping. It is very accurate for our purposes.

Take your gyro to the driveway or some other hard surface, air up the tires, and lift the tail to a semi level stance and stick some kind of thing under the tailwheel to hold it in that position - a beer cooler, or the seat off a picnic table, or something you just make out of a few 2 by 4's and a piece of plywood, just something that lifts the tail off the ground and has enough length to allow the gyro to roll across it about a foot or two - Go to Northern tool and pick up two PAIRs of very good tie down straps, and a pair of threaded rings - to use in place of the S hooks that come with the scale, I don't trust them - and tie the tail with 2 straps to the scale and then the scale with two more straps to the trailer hitch on your car or something else that is nearly the height of the raised tail. Get in the gyro and you work the throttle and so on while strapped in the seat, have your son or wife watch the scale. Be ready to chop the throttle and apply brakes if the straps were to break or come loose, but during the test the brakes should not be on. When you set this all up, if you can get someone to help you, I would hook up the straps and all and then have someone pull the gyro forward to stretch the straps as you lift the tail and place your cooler or whatever under the tailwheel

Try this and see what you get for thrust. I think it raising the tail is not a big deal in loss of thrust reading as long as the point where the scale is anchored is at the right height so the strap is in a straight line when the tail is raised. This way the scale shows the reading of a straight ahead pull.

I don't remember what you machine weights, but we are looking for about half the all up weight in static thrust to have good performance. I would suspect that your machine is going to need 350 or more pounds to fly nicely. I also would guess that your not getting top performance from your engine, either due to improper prop size or engine tuning, as you really want to see about 3600 rpms from a VW, but your close enough that during flight it might pick up the extra few hundred rpms to get to 3600....

Try to do the thrust test like I described with the scale I suggested and then let us know what you got.

And lastly, before you get to Mentone, try to take EVERY do dad and gadget out of the gyro that doesn't need to be in it for flight. This means pulling out all unneeded instruments, removal of wheel pants, music players, pair of fuzzy dice hanging from rearview mirror etc.... Every bit of weight we can shave will put it that much closer to flying.

[mcbirdman]

Hi Ron,

Basically I was saying that I couldn't duplicate the test as I did last year because there were too many variables in the way I tried to run it.

The precepter aircraft and Great plains operational limits are now improved compared to before. Listed climb at 3500 and my engine man said that I will pick up at least 10% rpms when moving down the runway. This puts my 3180 x 10% = 3498rpm. The prop size and pitch combo is putting it right where it says it will be. I have seen it here many times that the static thrust tests between pusher and tractors are different and that they don't tell all.

I don't mind trying to get a better ballpark number by making the test more fair/accurate but I am not sure how much it will really tell until it actually moves down the runway. I do know it is running significantly better and I think it is not going to be as accurate as what Jim Holbrook was getting on his test stand with all the variables. He got 320. What I am wondering is .... If you pick up 10%more rpm running is there also 10% more power available? 320x10%= 352... = 704 lbs it can carry. I think Jim said 15% which if that rule of thumb is true is 320x15%=368...=736 lbs we can carry with the rule of thumb figuring.

I don't mind lightening the machine but if 10 or 15lbs is going to make the difference then I might as well not bother taking the few things off because the next thing I will do is get a prince prop and reconsider redrives - OR just recover the aircraft and get the real weight off it. Given the amount of time I have before then I think it would be worth another test to determine if I need to get all the paint off. I know I can significantly reduce the weight with a lightweight fabric covering and much less coats of paint. If I do it now however I will always wonder if fixing the engine was enough to fix the performance problems. If it is still poor, but much better at least I will know that recovering it IS a good thing......

With Mentone coming up the most I think I can do is recheck paperwork, run the engine to break it in more, recheck wiring and see what happens. I know it will perform better than before. I know that we are getting 33% more thrust. I guess we'll have to see if it is enough. If it is too marginal then we at least can compare the engines impact on performance before the repairs were made......

Thanks Ron, will keep working.......

[mcbirdman]

Short...

Okay, I am going to update a few things. I tried to find the information where I had posted thrust numbers and came across the thread I refused to visit. I only saw the last page and saw the posts from Ron, John Stevens and Magilla. I found it interesting and am thankful for your (also) long posts.

I will try to put the main points at the top and if you want more I will detail it more if I have the time to do so. That way people that don't have the time or need to read alot can check it out if they want and if there is a question in there... they won't miss it to be answered if they decide to.

Long.....
In updating things and in thinking about the past I know that I used to always do which was search out stories and experiences people had in their quest for flight. This included details of their build and the enjoyable string of events and detours that all play into the story.
I have tried to include these things for other people to maybe enjoy but in order to tell the story it makes a bit of reading and often people just don't have the time or the interest to read the latest update. So, I don't know, it takes a lot of time to write these things and would be easier to just write 4 or 5 line posts but with us coming into the next stage of making her ready to be put into service... I wonder if I should worry about keeping it short or expressing the way I have. I know if I had seen threads on Ron's building LW's I would have followed it and read every word they wrote with eagerness. There just isn't anything like that but I wish there was.
Looking through these threads I found the information that would have been lost had I not just put it in these notes.

[mcbirdman]

In reviewing the thrust tests apparently I was only getting about 200 lbs of thrust when Ron flew it at the convention. On the test stand I was being told a higher amount but I can only speak of that which we did here because I am still using the same meter and using it tied up to a post.

previous. only 200 lbs thrust when Ron flew it? 62" prop 2950rpm and 200lbs zenith carb

yesterdayMikuni 34 carb and prop 72" with 1.6:1 redrive 3350rpm and 350 lbs thrust.ran Lean had to open startup circuit to enrichen so will see if it just isn't breathing enough

todayMikuni 40 carb and prop 72 same redrive. 3600 rpm and ran rich - 380 lbs thrust. Then son throught it was a little over 360. Unsure of the amount now. It doesnt want to idle down for some reason. I have to pulse the cable down and it will then slow down to speed it started up at. Oiled cable, has big high pressure spring in it and when I shut it down the slide is all the way down.... Gotta figure out why cable or carb is'nt bringing it back to idle speed consistantly..... Bigger carb does start ok and runs up okay. Maybe I need to try a 38 Mikuni. I realize that at slower speeds a bigger carb may not want to run slower because of the lack of airflow at slow speeds but surprisingly that wasn't the problem. Playing with the needle I was able to make it stay in balance better as I open the throttle.

So whatever we find when we finish tuning for summer... We are at least 350lb/thrust easily.
I find it interesting that if you take 200lbs original, multiply by 1.6(redrive) it is 320lbs thrust. 60% more thrust than when Ron flew it. Different temps though and I didn't know if we gained the remaining 15% thrust because it is only 40 degrees here and first test was done in the summer. We did add the larger prop with agressive pitch... Maybe half of this remaining 15% is split between the weather and the bigger prop efficiency. However, right now we are showing a 75% gain in thrust. I think it is all good now. I will wait until it warms us to lean it out better. It is 1/2 way between balanced and max richness on 02 sensor readout. Only other thing I could do is put the weber 32/36 downdraft on there and see what it pulls. I just don't like it sticking out the top. Looks ugly but I could smooth it in with the cowl. I had to cut it already for redrive so now I just have to figure what all glassing I have to do to close it up....

[magilla]

Performance first, looks second. Function vs. Form. That is, find out what works, then make it look good instead of outright eliminating options....

Check with Larry at Valley Engineering as to the latest Weber carb he is using (downdraft) - I have an old Holley model 1940 that I rebuilt. Simple, effective, and POWERFUL. With the Valley auto carb heat function (based on manifold vacuum), you can't go wrong.

Besides, with the redrive, the top mount carb only sticks up another 2" where the filter is, so you could put an air scoop on top of the cowl, a lot like the supercharger duct on the cowl of the P40 Warhawk. 4-6" wide, 2-3" tall, running length of cowl front to back.

My 2276 with the Holley carb pulls the 84" prop to 3600 rpm, 1.9:1 redrive!!! With a 56 pitch, am pulling close to 450lbs of thrust.

Slap on a center mount carb set up and at least try it.

[mcbirdman]

Hey Spencer - Right on ! 450 !
I guess we are on the right track.
The main reason for trying to get the carb mounted below stems from a safety standpoint not totally aesthetics. I put the pertronix ignition system on board and found that the coil mounted on top of engine in line with crank would fit in with the bubble in the cowl that will be there when I reglass because of the redrive. You nailed it as far as the p-40 that is exactly what I thought as I ran masking tape from top of redrive pully back to cowling. Same shape. What I was still trying to figure is that the ignition sticks up a bit and I will likely add another smaller "scoop" next to the bigger center one to hide all of that. Looks workable so I went back to doing thrust tests yesterday.

One thing that Vw's always suffered from and I forgot to mention. Updraft pipes and the carbs mounted below seem to get very cold. My engine always ran different with the cowling off. The intakes get cold and likely cause condensation inside the pipes on the way up to the intake ports which means the fuel probably doesn't mist up there like it should.

Old vws had a pipe that ran off from each side of the exhaust that ran right up next to the fuel intake crossover pipe. They were encapsulated with metal so that when the pipes were hot from the exhaust it kept the intakes warm also. I welded some fittings to my exhaust and ran the pipes next to the carb and intakes but did not wrap them this time.

I think that I will wrap them, put the cowling together as good as I can and try it again. I think the richness may go away....

What I am still wondering though is if I am going 3600 with the 72" prop and 1.6 drive - will I get the same thrust but less rpm if I try a 74-76 inch blade? I mean if it is loaded up enough to not turn faster... won't a bigger blade load up, pull the same but slower if nothing else is changed? I am thinking that the agressive blade pitch is holding it back to 3600. Great Plains says 4200 on takeoff. I still think we have a ways to go. Even if I don't get more than 360-380 it is enough to finally perform decently. Anything more would be great like yours but moves us off the anemic gyro flight catagory which I can't tell you how happy that makes me feel. To see it fly is great, but to know we still had to get more out of her was a challenge without a gaurentee.

Right now it just makes sense to keep the prop the same and find out if the engine can just turn it better with tuning.

Spencer - Do you have a special machined bearing bored into the engine block similiar to the force one prop bearing? The cool thing is that I can pull the belts and change the sprocket and find out what it is pulling direct drive- to verify if we were getting 200lbs before changes and compare how much now... Thanks for your help figuring this out.
congrats on the good thrust numbers. jtm

[Jazzenjohn]

James, I know you said you had 200# as your thrust number before Mentone last, but I would tend to think it was actually higher because I don't believe it would have gotten off the ground with only 200. Switching to a redrive was, in my opinion, exactly the right move though and I'll bet it will perform admirably this time around. I'm looking forward to seeing it this summer, if we indeed ever have a summer here in Michigan. It's snowing again today...

[magilla]

James -

I would trust what Larry tells you re: the best combo for thrust and redrive size. He and his dad have done extensive testing since about 1993 - fifteen years we won't be able to match, as they have a grass strip in their backyard.

His experimental ultralights (Backyard Flyer I, II and Ultralight are in the same speed range as out gyros - 30-90 knots, and "geared" for max static thrust.. if you see the video with the take-off of the aircraft with their VW motor, you will drop your jaws)

So - stick with Larry. If he says 1.6 works best with 72", then I would take it to the bank.

I seem to remember that the 80 and 84" props were designed for the 2.0:1 redrive, which is what I have.

What I guess i am trying to tell you is this: if you have the room, the extra thrust from 72 inches up to 76 inches would be worth about 40 lbs, from same engine. Increase from 76 to 80, and you get about another 40 lbs thrust. 80 to 84, same. That's why Im pulling a MINIMUM of 450 with an 84" prop.

I'm not telling you to sink any more money into it, but you may be able to talk Larry into a 2.0:1 gear swap with your 1.6:1, and mebbe try out an 80" monster.

As to my nose and the sand seal - it's just a standard sand seal for the dune buggy crowd, but it requires that the nose of the case be milled .030 or so to accept it. The bearing area is the same, but with the removal of the galley plug for the #4 bearing, it is getting more oil.

I would much prefer to have your force one bearing, as it is beefier, but I am not too worried about mine.

[mcbirdman]

Hey John That is what is bugging me. I know it was stronger feeling after the rebuild. Then on a test stand he said at least 300 but my backyard testing said only 200 or so. I could only compare it to the tests we did in backyard and was disappointed that despite the engine test stand results I ended up the same when I tried to repeat the test at home.

Now, it is possible that it is pulling higher than the numbers indicated... but either way both tests they would both be off by the same amount. Kinda hard to think that the same engine pulling direct on his stand was 320 and when I put a redrive and bigger prop we would only gain 30lbs.
It makes most sense that I can only compare thrust to previous results in same way.

But just a thought... If Great Plains said 2180 only puts out about 220 and that is what Ron had on his and along comes the "heavy".... I could see it still fly but be anemic.

I guess if I can find a good balance that includes a "respectable" takeoff and then allows enough top end to get in to a good cruise... That is what I want. I don't want to have a strong climb and then feel like I need to downshift when I am cruising....

When it warms up I can give you a few more numbers. I think that when I had the weber downdraft on there direct drive and 62 inch prop we were over 330 or so. Good thing is that when I get the carb worked out I can change the prop hub back to direct drive and compare/verify this again.

Spencer, when I get the numbers firmed up after we get into stable weather I will use the best carb and use both prop configurations and note rpm. It isn't that hard but will be useful to note. I am sure even with the best of numbers you and John are right.... the redrive is perfect for what I needed to do. I was told a redrive would not fit my modified engine.

The redrive, at a minimum, appears to bring reasonable performance expectations to reality. I am going to start finishing up those things that had to be dropped while trying to get the engine to produce. It is cold up here but I want to keep moving. Warm weather MIGHT be here someday soon... Thanks guys. I need good news....

[WHY]

Hi James

A little information that I thought you might be interested in, last week I sent a e-mail to Great Plains with the question as to why the Force One type bearing was not offered on the 2180 or larger engines when the belt re-drive's are used because of the increased radial load on the front bearing due to the increased power and torque from modified engines.

Got a answer Monday that said " The load of the prop is no longer directly on the crankshaft so it is not necessary". I understand that this to some degree , but the main loads at this point are "thrust, and gyroscopic" when the prop is on the crankshaft. When the re-drive is used the load is radial due to the torque being translated to the prop pulley( at least that is how I see it) but it appears that they feel the standard bearing at this point is quite sufficient to handle the radial loads. Got to admit they have been in business a long time really know there engines so guess I will try the standard set up at first, when I am ready for my engine. By the way was that "sand seal" on your engine installed by Revemaster ?

Tony

[mcbirdman]

Hi Tony,

Re read posts. I don't have the sand Seal. I think it was Spencer who mentioned this. You must have misread. Remember ? I am the one with the Force One Prop hub. We just turned the prop down to fit in the already installed bearing and made it work.

Thanks for the update. I know they say the same thing in their promo stuff and in the back of my mind wonder why they switched to the idler V belt with tensioner. Just wonder if they had problems because the belts broke on them a bit. They have NOT said there was ANY problem but I can tell you that just making them tight isn't a measurement. From what I read it needs much more than I think they were getting...by "just pressing hard" on the belt. At that site I found the additional information (rotorway?) they said like 52-58 lbs to move 5/16 of an inch...was required for a 100 hp engine redrive. ( have to check on that again, I wrote it down). To make it that tight I have to believe there is a tightness in the bearings... I can feel it when I turn the prop. I agree that they would be doing it if it wasn't working but I think you are right to consider this but they must have also.... :)

OTOH, there is quite a ledge built into the engine halfs for bearings. Anything that starts happening would start off with some leaks and would still leave you time to drill it out and put in a bigger bearing. I can see you just trying it first and making adjustments IF they became neccesary.

[mcbirdman]

Oh yea, forgot to mention. Just got inside from running engine.

Exahust temp is 1150 and at that setting it still shows a little rich on my 02 sensor.
I did the test using the 40mm mikuni updraft and had the needle clip pushed down all the way. I did not have the cowling or the heat set up on there and funny thing is that intakes didn't get dripping wet. I think the mikuni does a better job of atomizing the gas than I had with the Zenith.

I did the test on pavement, sitting on tail, tied to tree. The tail lifts up as it pulls.... I think not. Also I used older gas left in mostly empty can. Just ran out of gas so don't know if it makes difference. Fresh gas coming.....

2180 vw 72/43 prop I pulled 380 lbs thrust at 3600 rpm.

Head temps held at 350.
dew 26 humidity 29% temp 58 degrees

Note Great Plains Redrive says 4200 rpm 103 hp takeoff
3400 rpm is 70hp continuous
Great plains redrive says 2180with 72" will produce 350 lbs. We Got 380.
Great plains direct says 2180 w60apx will produce 215 lbs. We got 230.
In both cases we got 8%more power but redrive brought it up 1.6drive, to 344,bigger prop plus the 8% we feel we picked up with the "seamless" racing rings..

But in this case of a heavy machine - the most important element was the redrive. Even if my engine was performing as a normal VW engine 350 would have been enough for us. Knowing we are getting 8% more power shows she runs good. Found a site that has a couple devices to add on to carb that will allow my mikuni to be cockpit adjustable so that there are no more needle changes.... I am going to like that...... I can tune it in better and adjust for altitude automatically or through a cable in any weather. they have a couple different devices. http://www.thunderproducts.com/IntelaJet.htm

Does this mean it will do better down the runway? It will still be dragging the rotors all the way.... Has more than rule of thumb thrust expectations and I believe it should fly now.

I need to see what the Weber downdraft will do.... will it push me above the 3600 rpm.... stay "tuned". ;)

[WHY]

Hi James

Sorry about the mix up, your right it was Spencer with the sand seal.

[magilla]

WHY - Yep, I have the sand seal.

Larry and Gene Smith from Valley Engineering (who make the redrive that Great Plains sells) originally used a Ford or Chevy wheel bearing, but changed it when VW aftermarket came out with the sand seals for the dune buggy crowd.

For no charge, Valley turned down the shaft of my older crank pulley gear to fit the sand seal. That way, if I ever tear down again (hopefully in the distant future!) I can just use a "stock" sand seal.

Sand seal is beefier and does a better job of keeping stuff in (oil) and out (sand) than original alternator pulley seal...

__________________________________________________ ____________

James - 380lbs thrust with a 72" prop at 3600!!!!!

WOW!!!!! That's awesome!

I would consider 3600 rpm to be the magic number, James, especially static (tied down).

Really, that's about all you're gonna get, with maybe 180 rpm more with forward flight.

Talking to Larry at Valley, his engines top out at 3600 static, with additional 5% in fwd flight. His cruise RPM's are set at about 3400 rpm, same as Great Plains.

Your prop pitch is perfect for the application. 3600 engine RPM with 1.6:1 equals 2250 prop rpm. 69% mach (good!!!) and it's set 72x43 for a 90mph cruise speed. Since our gyros are even higher drag than the STOL acft that Steve and Larry are used to, we probably have to reduce cruise expectations by 20%, so 72 mph cruise, which will be awesome!!!

FYI

3600 rpm also happens to match my rpm's for the prop and pitch for my 2:1 redrive. Even though we have different redrives and pitches, we are hitting the stops about the same time.

I have to say - 1150 egt and 350 head temps - WOW, that is cool for the power you are producing. Almost suspect, considering racing rings and being at max power.

Also, remember you have a thermocouple correction - if you are less than 75 degrees ambient, subtract the difference from your egt and cht readings...which would mean 17 less at 58F than what you reported above - so 1133 egt and 333 cht at max power? Hmmmmm.

1) Make sure that egt sensor is no further than 6" from exhaust valve
2) Install CHT gauge on inboard top stud on #3 cylinder, not under spark plug.

I could be wrong, and don't want to be a downer, but your numbers are a little too cool, literally, and somewhat suspect, unless you are running wayyyyyyy toooooooo richhhhhhhhhh.

If you are hitting the stops and she gives 3600 rpm, you should be in the 5-minute limits of 420 CHT and roughly 1350-1400 egt.

Either that, or that Mikuni 40mm is WAY TOO BIG for the application, and you are sucking 8gph, and using fuel as a coolant! (doesn't jive, but that is the truth) O2 sensor kind of reflects that. Hmmmmm.

I'd go to the 36 or 38mm Mikuni, or with the Weber downdraft.

WAIT ONE - Belay last order.

3600 rpm is awesome, and so is 380 thrust.

GO FLY IT!!!!!

See what it performs like, then go back and tweak it.

Man, you are getting 8% more thrust than expected. That's unbelievable, and a testament to the work you have done building the engine. Really though, you are at the max RPM for that motor in a static situation. What else are you waiting for???

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Spencer for the details....you are watching the numbers AND trying to verify my findings/interpretations. Just a note. CHT not on the sparkplugs. The EGT is only 1 inch away from exaust flange. Will that be too close and make the EGT numbers too high? The O2 sensor is saying it is too rich. I should pull the plugs and look but if you think I am over carbing it, 02 says so and EGT too close.... then I might be good to go back down to the 34 and add the automatic jet..... I really am not looking for a 8gph burn....and they say you can lose 10-15 percent of your power through incorrect jetting...Also - remember Larry told me they were making 350 on their smaller 1920?cc engine. If I am not mixing right we are going to be off a bit, that is why I think there is more OR at least we should be able to keep it there.

I like how the mikuni 34 ran as far as idle speeds up to 3/4. Problems came in at top end as it ran too lean and I think we got 350. I may purchase carb adjuster to eliminate changing jets to compensate for temp and altitude changes. I really like to be able to tweek from cockpit. If I get the kit it wants a lean situation so that when you add the special jet into carb you can decide HOW much it adds, because it can't subtract from the baseline.

My son tells me first test was 380 and Second and Third test 360, then I ran out of gas. It s cooler here than expected when I plan to fly in summer so I think with this carb thing I should be able to at least keep it to something over 350 no matter what. It is hard for him to stand back there that windy and things shaking all over. It is hard trying to do this this way. I couldn't even get a pix of it from him so I could see it. I understand, hard for me, hard for my little guy. I may have to rig up a cable all the way to the back.... not that hard....

What I have to do is clean her up and check things over. Biggest things though are still only refiberglassing the top 1/2 of the cowling since I have the nose cutup for redrive and the distributor sticking up.

Then, for me, I have to get my medical renewed. I need my biannual and then need to fly with someone to get used to gyros again. Those parts there are the hard ones because those take money. I am doing everything I can to come up with the rest of the money I need for Racer because I also have a dream of getting the two place running to share with others. If this year doesn't pick up for me I will probably not be able to do much more in the way of training and might be only able to trailer it down to mentone again, if that. It has been one longgg winter. I hope things start looking up now that the good weather is coming.... Hopefully my business will pick up a bit. Michigan is not the place to be, except for my family.....

Thanks for your interpretation on the numbers. Just for line of reference: For the 40 mm carb. I ended up almost shutting down startup jet. Carb is cummulative as each jet activates as slide opens. I pushed needle down all the way, which cuts mid throttle-full from getting as much. Main jet control has to be physically changed and I don't have anything to change with except smaller mikuni.... will check to see if they are interchangable and about possibility of adding a jet to the smaller mikuni. If I need to use this 40 all dialed down.... fine.... but I still do not like how it is hard to get it down to an idle once I run it up. Something other than a sticky cable doesn't let it idle back down without yanking the cable and releasing it quickly. Maybe it is a sticky float being too high... Will keep checking to find which one I can live with.

I see you are watching closely because I also feel that ideally that the 38 carb might be just what I need. I'm holding the 40 back and the 34 is running too lean. Thank you for your encouragement and keen eye on what is happening. I appreciate that.

[WHY]

Hi Spencer and James

Don't know if this should be on a "engine" thread or not, but since we are talking here specific VW on specific tractor I'll stay on the tractor thread until someone says to go engines thread.

Was just on some other sites that were dealing with VW aero conversions and was reading one specific thread here this person was doing almost exactly whatwe ar discussing here and that is choice of carbs. His craft was a high performance canard fixed wing but the engine problems are the same, cowling and peformance. At the moment he has narrowed his choices down to a Bing 92 or a Weber DCOE-40, both are side draft, but the Weber is very interesting. It is a dual throat, side draft, low profile ( they are avaiable in smaller throat) that could be mounted on top or under neath the engine, BUT it sure isn't cheap, about $385. BTW his engine was a 2180, so maybe these are some options to think about also.

Tony

[HobbyCAD]

Yes, the Weber or Dellorto carbs are beautifull low profile sidedrafts, basically 2 separate carbs, sharing a common float chamber between them. Ideal for mounting on the VW, each carb feeding it's own manifold side of the engine.

Go and search for them in a breaker yard specialising in Italian cars, they are fitted to small to medium sized Alfa Romeo's and Lancia's. Must be cheaper than $385 a unit !!

The Webers and Dellorto DHLA are big units, 40mm and up. The Dellorto DHLB are smaller units, maybe what you are looking for, dual 32mm and 35mm types. In all these types of carbs, when installed in a car, they are mounted as pairs, thus a carb for every cylinder (4 cyl Italian cars). If you are going to use only a single block unit, make sure you buy the side that has the throttle lever linkage on it. The other block side only has a shaft interconnection, not it's own throttle lever linkage. But then, get the fuel inlet banjo from the other side, as the throttle lever side banjo has a fuel inlet and outlet on it, to be able to bridge over a fuel hose to the other side. The non-linkage side has an inlet only banjo fitting. This is what you need when fitting a single unit, saves you from having to block it off.

1st picture is larger DHLA Dellorto, 2nd picture is smaller DHLB, 3rd is Weber DCOE40, 4th is horizontal and vertical Webers.

Francois

[WHY]

Hi Francois

Thanks for the source on used carbs, will check this out.

Tony

[mcbirdman]

Hi guys. Thanks for the consideration Tony. This still has to do with getting the most out of my tractor gyro as it progresses and the concerns to be addressed. If left here maybe someone else following the build might catch this or not. Either way ok for me thanks. Also thanks Francois for pointing out options related to our situation.

I have explored these side draft carbs. The problem is I didn't know what size range to consider and I really didn't want to give up a carb like what I started with that was adjustable from the cockpit. Too rich or too lean I figured I could "dial" it in. I didn't want to buy a 300.00 carb just to try it and not be able to return it. I was not sure enough of myself to decide how big or small I needed, so I didn't buy one.

I know think that intake of a 34-38 sized single carb really is enough if tuneable. My 40 size seems to have more than enough airflow but then I think it is so big the fuel isn't atomized as well as when there was more flow. I have been reading other information that leads me to believe that what I have is "erratic throttle" which sounds like a problem related to a larger bore carb that is operating at a lower than needed airflow. (atomazation problems at low speeds) The 34 runs good on 1/4 to 3/4 throttle and then leans out. I'm going to try to keep the high airflow on the 34 but push a little more fuel. They say being off a little bit can cause a loss of 10-15% power. If I am off only part of that it is significant.

Today I ordered a power jet to install on my mikuni carb. I am going to machine a fitting to adapt it to the speedo cable I already had installed previously. I think the 34 has enough flow, and I think with the addition of the power jet I can feed more fuel at the higher end AND control the amount without affecting the lower end. I think with the smaller carb the flow will be better for starting and mid also. Looks like I can buy a 38 for 80.00. I think For 30.00 and a little drilling and tapping, I hope to clear up the either the lean in the 34 or the richness in the 40.

I looked back and found some notes. Ron flew on the old zenith carb. I think 230lbs thrust direct drive 62 inch prop
then I got mikuni installed but although better, not enough wrote down 250 in backyard on grass me in it and 280 in yard me not in it. Not enough I looked at the bend in the flange and the size of the pipe that was used to mount the mikuni and I realized that pipe was smaller than I would have used. I reworked the inlet and it came up to about 275 or so. All in all better but not good enough. Still, not bad for direct drive.

Then I put the 1.6 redrive on and although it is running too rich with the 40 and too lean with 34, it is testing at least 360-380 with redrive. I think tuning will change things again and playing with jets and changing needles is tedious when, with a little work we can adjust from the dash. That is what I hope to do. I hope I can do better. I have done worse. I promise I will let you know what I find. I bought more fuel tonight. jtm

[magilla]

James,

After thinking about it and reading some of Robert S. Hoover's blogs on the vw for aero engine use, it is CLEAR that the 40 is WAYYY TOOO BIGGGG for your application.

Rough idle and sloppy response is a characteristic of too big an idle/main jet. The positive side effect of too rich a mixture is that it cools the cylinders and heads, as indicated by your low EGT and CHTs. The negative side effect, aside from a huge gph rate of burn, is that unatomized fuel will wash the oil off your piston rings, and will lead to early wear on your cylinders.

I would go with the 34, and open up the secondaries, as you have planned. Your throttle response will be much "crisper" and cleaner, and you should see some higher CHT and EGTs, and some better reading on your O2 gauge.

Remember, with a center mount carb on a VW, the fuel going to the different cylinders will have different F/A ratios - it is unavoidable. Also, you are not going to have a perfect 14.7:1 stoichiometric ratio across all of your RPM ranges.

I would gun for "perfect" at 3400 rpm, and a little, but not too rich at 3600. So, I guess I am backing up your thinking. The 34, with a bigger secondary jet, will most likely do the trick. If all else fails, I would move up to a 36 - stay away from the 38 and 40mm - you will be just wasting fuel, and reducing longevity.

As a comparison, the aerocarb slide carb has a 35mm throat size for 90-125hp engines, so your 34mm should be the perfect size!! Either increase secondary jet, or reduce air jet size, and you should be dialed in.

As far as your other requirements - I applaud your sense of safety and reserve to insure that you have recency of training.

However, I would say this: Slap the 34 Mikuni back on, and go to the strip/airport/runway,and do some long taxi tests, and some crow hops until you feel comfortable. There is NO WAY that dual time in a pusher gyro is going to help you out more than actual time in YOUR aircraft, even if it is just on the ground and crow hops.

Nothing trains you for running or push-ups like running and push-ups. Same goes for flying.

Bottom Line: You have the numbers you need, whether 360 or 380 to create a very respectable performance.

The only other thing I can think of would be to cut off the fabric except on the rudder and horizontal stabilizer, if it is weighing a lot. I cannot understand how an extra 30lbs of weight from aheavy paint job could make your plane not fly.

Andy Keech's LW5 was LOADED to the gills with extra fuel tanks, etc - in the neighborhood of 250 ADDITIONAL lbs of weight, and his Rotax 914 turbo acted like it didn't mind at all - he even set speed records with it.

the only thing I can think of is rigging of the main rotor. Too much drag??? Too high an angle of incidence? What type blades and what type rotor head do you have? Set up according to spec? (While I can tell from your posts that you are VERY detail oriented and very thorough, it never hurts to double check!!)

Good Luck !!!

And damn! if you are not going to beat me into the air this year!! You GO, James!!! I am happy for you.

[StanFoster]

James; Its been interesting watching your Little Wing get improved with your tenacious efforts. I remember watching Ron Awad flying it down the runway at Mentone 2007. It was obviously horsepower challenged....and I could tell you were satisfied that it could fly. So,,,you have been steadfastedly working on getting your horsepower increased along with some nice thrust numbers.

It will be interesting to see the radical performance improvements next flight.

Keep posting......its nice to see any machine get tinkered with to milk out more performance.


Stan

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Stan, I appreciate that and I know you understand what I am doing. It is taking a bit but we are getting there. Today I cleaned up the cockpit. I made a nice cover that sits along the floor near the left thigh. So many wires and looked messy. Got it so the mp3 player plays through the headsets and if there is radio activity it cuts out. I had to wire in a little booster though because the little "AA" powered mp3 player evidently doesn't put out a big enough signal for a little wing. Whats the deal?????

Spencer, I am glad you concur. You have to remember that Hoover guy is the one that is always writing that VW's can't put out more than 50 hp. I've found his stuff but some of the stuff he wrote should have made me give up.

One of the things he didn't count on is a redrive, which allows us up in powerband area. Anyway, got to run to a family party will write more later but I will wait till I get powerjet, I think that will work for this application.

Also remember, when we flew before it was direct drive... We had to make a difference adding the redrive. It did fly but direct drive. Ron almost took it around the pattern but he knew I was only interested in if it flew at that point. I knew it wasn't quite ready yet and he did what was best. It is also possible that if he pushed the nose down it might have allowed the rpms up a bit so that it could then pull a bit more but probably not that much. The covering was a factor because the engine WAS putting out so little power compared to weight. It was with the Zenith Carb which I believe was not enough. A decision to either make the engine put out more OR recover and make everything lighter was made. That is why we were working on the engine and worrying about taking stuff off. I told Ron that if 10-30 lbs was the difference in not flying then I would switch the engine or recover so the project has continued with these newer changes. I tried to not spend a lot of money because Racer has an engine for me that we are going to put on my Two place LW frame, which reminds me he must be getting closer to getting them so I need to send him some more money...

Thanks for verifying my thinking. I am learning alot and it is good to see that I am not going astray. I am looking forward to running it up and down the runway but I have those things to do first. Ttyl. jtm

[mcbirdman]

I forgot to answer all your questions. The head was made by Don Parham and the blades are ernie 26'. Just to be clearer, we were flying a 720 lb AUW machine on about 230 lbs thrust. That is the reason something had to give.... either less weight or more power..... I chose to go for power because I thought I could do better. If I didn't, I knew I could recover and lighten the machine back to the weight that Ron H. had when he flew his with a Vw but Ron H. said "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater yet"..." if I could get 350-375 it should be fine - so this brings us to now....

[Jazzenjohn]

The earlier thrust of 230-250 is about what I got from my Rotax 447. The 350-375 thrust is about what you get from a 582. Big difference.

I'd guesstimate that you'd only be able to lose 40 lbs max by recovering. That would be roughly equivalent to carrying 5 gallons less fuel. Not nearly as big a difference.

The next time it flies will likely be the last time you concern yourself over the extra paint.

[mcbirdman]

John, that's it. If I tweeked and tweeked engine and couldn't get it up to 350 then I would have take the additional step to lose the paint/lighten.. I think you are close on weight savings.

It is just amazing to me how easy it is to keep adding paint, dope and alluminum to the fabric. Even if I did pull it off, now I know it isn't a big deal. It is just a fusalage right? And I could make a template off my paint scheme that I worked out and it would go right back on much more easily.

I have a line on a place two towns over that prints custom Wraps and it seems inexpensive. All I would have to do is give them a file and they'll print it out. I could do some cool things with that but at the minimum, my logo, and girl with the umbrella cowling patch would look good but my priority is getting the Yamaha conversion paid up. So most changes will have to be based on stuff I already have on hand or minimal expense items.

Spencer, Are you getting oil out of that custom breather tube they made that fits between the fingers of the redrive bracket? I am starting to think that I may be filling the engine up too much and that isn't helping much.

The stance of the aircraft leaves the dipstick higher than the rest of the engine and I am thinking that I am going to have to adjust the stick. I know there was this skyhawk we used to fly and if we tried to keep it full it sprayed the oil out until it read a little low and then it would stay there. I am wondering if I am having the same problem. I put a breather filter on there and it is still low enough behind the pully that I am fairly certain it isn't being sucked out with the propeller. I guess I won't worry about it until I get cowling glassed and then find out if it still does it.

When I took the redrive apart the base of the filler hole had an oval shaped fitting in it with two holes in it. I tried to match it the way it was but now I may take the redrive back off and rotate it. It is also possible that the direction it is facing is directly getting oil splashed into a hole and forcing the oil up. I just can't remember which way it is now. Redrive off - about 7 bolts not a big deal.... Thanks. jtm

[WHY]

Hi James

You are so close to sucess you should be able to smell it !

Tony

[WHY]

In fact you will probably by flying before I learn how to spell success.

Tony

[magilla]

James,

I have a breather tube that sucks the crankcase ventilation directly into the carb, so I don't have a problem with oil leaks between the "fingers." Another advantage to the center-mount downdraft carb.

Here is the deal with oil: Always always always measure your oil level with the airframe level. I store my aicraft with the airframe level, and tied down. That way never a guess as to correct oil level.

Yesterday, I had mine running nicely - 3600-3650 RPM.

Hands free, I leaned into the prop blast, and it was holding me up!!!! Like into a 100mph wind! Awesome!!

However, after 5 minutes, CHT (corrected) were up to 425 and egt was bouncing about 1225. Both inside of limits, but I din'w ant to push it.

Backed it down to 3400 rpm, but CHT only came down to 375, and EGT still at 1175. Oil temps stayed low, around 120 (I have a HUGE 72-row mesa steel oil cooler).

I might be running a little lean, so will do experiments with richer carbs adjustents to get them down.

I am at 5 hours of engine run time now, and she starts up every time on about 2-3rotations, and "glug-glug-glugs" up to a rough idle. I warm her up for 5 minutes, and she runs like a dream.

You're gonna love that engine now, once you fly it!!

[mcbirdman]

Got done for day. I thought about it and jacked tail up. I am overfilling it about the amount that you would see when it says low.... I remarked the stick and went back to cleaning her up. I know I needed to fix the gas gauge. It was something that came with the tank. The cork at the bottom with floating rod that comes up through gaslid... Like on Piper cubs I believe. Problem was that the cork wasn't very good. Luckily I had a float from one of my Vw sedans that no longer worked electrically. Yes, I did play with it to see if it could be mounted but that is more wiring, a gauge and more weight so I simply took the float off it and installed the wire through the pop rivit hole on the gas cap. The float has enough lift that the wire does rise out of the hole as an indicator.

Tony, I did smell something... It was kind of hard to work with the neighbors cooking out there today....

Going to go on and keep inspecting things and cleaning up things while I am in there anyway. Probably won't do any runups until I get carb powerjet installed and get the cowling fiberglassed. I guess getting this close is getting exciting.

[mcbirdman]

RRRRRRRR.

Today I got the powerjet and installed it in the 34 carb. Yesterday I took the redrive off and turned the breather hole around in case the fitting in there was actually sucking the oil up the tube, causing all the oil to come out of breather.
I tied her up and worked with it long enough to warm it up, tune the startup throttle and was working my way fairly nicely into the full range and keeping it in the range.

2 things. I can run it up to around 3400 and as I wait what it will do - the egts are saying 1200 and it sounds good and then I start to see the led's on the meter flickering and it runs back down to lean and the power/rpm starts dropping just like I am pulling back on the throttle. I thought I saw that before but I thought it was happening because it was running too rich.

Secondly, since I had to remove the redrive and turn the oil cover (about 40 min ttl job) I made sure the belt was tight and had a guitar type sound they were talking about. Well, as I was watching a strong RPM, the engine then started losing rpms and then it shuddered and guess how many belts I now have on the ground.....

I don't know what is happening. Am I running out of fuel? Are the lines too small? It is 40s today. Is this too cold for the belts? Did I overtighten them? I know there is no way they cold have been too loose. It is possible that I just have them too tight and I know they are used and were due for replacement so now I go on to my carbon fiber belts but if those break .... what will I do go tighter or looser? And if they are tight enough and they are breaking because of using a motorcycle carb that is responsive....

Then I think about the responsiveness that I have with this mikuni carb. I suppose it is possible that it is so responsive that it shears the belt off. I am just not sure but I know I am a little disgusted because I am trying to move ahead, not backward ! I was getting this carb tweaked in and it was actually running pretty good.

Can anyone with a belt redrive tell me if smoothness and rate of input is something that you worry about? I mean if you were going to do a go around at the last second and gave it all it had would you be wondering if you are going to bust your belts? I know these are old belts taken out of service but how tight should I put the Carbon fiber belts on? Shearing across the belt.... Is that too tight? Or mostly because they were old.
I need to find a belt tensioner meter so know some numbers about how tight I am getting them, and what works. I just find it hard to believe that in less than 1 hr of running I destroyed an old set of belts. I gotta figure out what is happening.
NOT A GOOD DAY .

Well, off to figure out the problems one at a time. Going to figure out the tension specs for the new Carbon Fiber belts....

[scottessex]

Sounds to me like the belts were way too tight.
Remember the engine "grows" when it heats up, thus making the belts even tighter.
Motorcycles have been using belt drives for years with excess of 100 HP and don't shred the belts that easily.
Try the belt with about 1/2" or so of give in the side, or call Valley engineering and see what they recommend, since they build them for the VW.

[mcbirdman]

Hi Scott, For such tight tolerences seems like there is missing info"

Valley Engineering. "With heavy thumb pressure on one of the belts, the one belt should deflect 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch with respect to the other belt.

So ummm what is "heavy thumb pressure... see what I mean?

I just installed new carbon fiber belts. Leaving it more to the looser side.

I may have found a problem that has to deal with loss of power, going to investigate the flywheel mounted alternator. I cranked it over without the prop and noticed smoke coming out of flywheel housing near the top. I quickly disconnected the battery and there was a drain on it. A few seconds later I touched it to battery and there wasn't a drain. I don't know if solenoid just stuck and got hot or something else so I am going to check it. I wonder if there is something shorting out down there when the revs go up and everything is vibrating.... Unfortunately, I may have to pull engine. Fortunately, I am used to doing stuff like that and it isn't as bad as it sounds. Disconnect wiring, carb cables, 4 motormounts and I might be able to pull it off and then I can get to the 4 bolts holding the Diel case on and inspect. This could answer some questions.... I don't mind doing all this as long as I fix it. Whatever it takes. If I find out the power was surging the engine and also causing loss of top end rpm I guess I would be happy because all my questions would finally be getting answered. Thanks guys... will let you know. jtm

[WHY]

Hi James

I built one belt re-drive for a Sub EA-81 that worked reasonable well except that I did not have a flywheel to dampen the torsional reasonance and it would wear belts rather quickly, but during this time I sure got acquainted with the number one nemisis of a belt re-drive and that is proper belt tension. As Scott has mentioned, I could start with a moderately tensioned belt, run it for maybe 5 minutes and you could bounce a ball peen hammer off of it, not that's tight. I'm wondering if you started real tight rpm that if the shuddering and the rpm changing may have been the belts tightening to the point of binding the bearings and then breaking the belts ????? One thing for sure the belts will have had something to do with the engine fluxuating.

I wonder if the new belt re-drive that Valley puts out now that has the "belt tensioner" on it is a fixed tension or if it is spring loaded, at any rate hang in there I'm pulling for you.

Tony

[mcbirdman]

Tony, Can you go look at this page and tell me what you think? That is why I tried to get them so tight after last breakage. The things that stand out are that a belt tightens with heat BUT the strands stretch which is kinda a wash.

They talk about how for the 100 hp range that belts need to be like 50+ lbs side load. I assumed by comparison of Valley E. that "pushing hard" directions still came nowhere near the proper tension and if anything was too loose. Both times I sheared the belts they looked just like the photos they have on their site and they say it is from too loose of belts....?????

I also saw that reference to having the belts tight enough to have a guitar like sound when you guitar it so to speak. They even sell a meter that once you enter the size pullys so it can figure out the resonance you strum it and it listens and tells you how tight it is....
I think I need to figure out a number, and find a tool or consistant way to get the belt set right. I am not saying that the belts wouldn't have failed because there is mention that also said that running the belts in a different direction than they were going can be bad also. I have no idea what way they were installed nor how old they were. At the same time I don't know how much I have to do with it except I would have to think this is more than coincidence and am treating it as such.

http://www.epi-eng.com/rotorway_helicopter/rotor_drive_system/gates_belt_issues.htm

This is the first of a few fixes that have to be addressed. I think I have a couple things going on and it is making me run in circles. Good news is I think the mikuni will run good, especially if I just let it warm up outside so that I eliminate the rough run of the engine. One other thing that didn't help things. I did have locknuts on the propeller BUT I don't think they were tight enough. It is possible that the pulses were made worse if the prop could slip forward and back against the bolts and possibly snap the belts, True? Because the tension is so much and hard to turn the engine because of the gearing - pulling the prop I could feel it advance and slip on the hub a little bit and so I pulled it back a little against that tension and could feel the slop. Maybe that contributed to breaking the belt. I just need to figure out what all is going wrong and fix it. I do miss the direct drive - much simpler but all we gotta do is figure it out and make it work. Thanks Tony. jtm

[mcbirdman]

Okay, it was bugging me - I went back out there to see what I could find. I decided to take the magneto off in case I could see why the cable that is shrink wrapped seemed to move a little when I pushed it around. Thought I could feel a loosness to it.

Found two problems. One is the puck that couples the magneto to the engine is sheared into two pieces. This would explain some eratic engine running. The timing could be jumping all over.
Second, the ring that holds the wire wrapped metal (windings)to the inside of the accessary case as part of the alternator is missing a screw and is allowing the piece to move around, probably generating pulses of on and off as it probalby is a loose connection. I suspect that when the engine was turning high speed - the resonance was actually causing the fluttering of not only the LED's on the o2 sensor but was actually loosing power to the primary ignition as it probably kept turning on and off. I shouldn't be happy except that I think I figured out the eratic running and LED display swinging wildly.

Bad news, engine comes off. Good news - I know what needs to be done and I won't have to deal with it again. Just another afternoons work. Will have to order another puck and while I am at it I will order the 90degree angled distributor cap. I guess overall we made progress, even if it made more work.

[mcbirdman]

Update on progress. Today engine removed from the Diehl acc.case which was left on the motor mounts. What I found was as suspected. 4 bolts loose on the ring that holds the wire wrappings for the flywheel mounted alternator and the bolt that matched the hole I found. It was bent at 90 degrees and was getting tossed around inside the alternator. It explained the smoking as I found 3 different wire wrapped cells or whatever they are called.... crispy black from being shorted out. I have another engine so I pulled the part off from there and cleaned it all out. I suspect lack of enough bolt torque and they did not use threadlock. There is not torque specs for this install but they didn't do enough. I put it all back together with locktite, and Called in an order to Steve's wife at Great Plains. They were in a car driving down to Fun N Sun so order won't be here til they get back. I ordered the new puck and remounted the engine and wiring tonight. I can still start the machine on the electronic ignition, don't need the mag right now. I'll time the mag when I get the puck from them.

I am sure the power fading was from this screw and once we resume testing I think the upper end will come in much better. I am glad this was figured out because it answers several things I have been trying to figure out and I am confident we will be running better than ever. jtm

[mcbirdman]

It has been a while since checking in. Economy is bad in Michigan and I keep trying to keep this non essential dream alive. I haven't been able to do much buying of stuff and building but I have been saving as I can to send Racer some more money for the 2 place engine/engine mount.
The few things I did accomplish is to tear the engine down and get the missing screw that likely was shorting out my alternator and causing ignition problems. It meant replacing the windings inside the Diehl accesory case. Luckily I had one to take off from my donor engine that came with the redrive. I will still have to replace it but it allowed me to get the engine back together.

After I installed the second jet (added another one in throat) in the mikuni carb I was able to hit the High rpms over 4200 I think without hitting the lean side of the meter and it didn't try to cut out.

From my kids best guess reading the thrust meter while I ran it up - we were something over 340 before I finished tuning it all in. If in Mentone we were flying down the runway at 220 lbs thrust as I now believe we are fine. What is important to note then is that at this point if only 340 it represents 55% more thrust than before.

I wanted so much to play with it more, give it more break in time and tune it more but I had to prioritize my time and let it set.

Come spring I hope to do the medical, biannual and some taxing tests but I really think that since it turns a 72" EDIT>>> 42 pitch (earlier said 47pitch, so I corrected with edit>>>> pitch higher rpm than listed in specs - I just feel this engine is running strong.
If I get a chance I will post some photos I took when I towed it down to the airport with my bug. It was fun running it around a bit and adjusting the brakes so they felt good. I guess I wish I did more but at least I am still here and did not give up.

[mcbirdman]

Here are some photos of the redrive installed, towing to the airport with 2 bugs and a photo of how I cleaned up the wiring within the cockpit. I may find some other photos that show more detail. I just thought I would update a little....

[mcbirdman]

taking it down our driveway to airport to run around and see how it tows.... I got two old bugs back on the road very inexpensively and use them to advertise my photography studio but also to learn about VW engines like the one in the LW. It has been fun so far, but has been a long road so far but heck, we made it this far right?

[mcbirdman]

Okay backtrack - found photos of removing the engine to get to the alternator and the damage. Photos of inside cockpit where I added a panel to house the radio wiring /intercom, misc wiring. There is a flap on top that opens to get to the mp3 player. I forgot to mention I made a right door with removable window that locks and has an inside latch and snap grab type latches so you can feel it close tightly. I made a removable window on left but only found photos of door. The door is now covered and looks great when she is all buckled down and locked up tight.

[mcbirdman]

more photos single place

[okikuma]

Hi James,

Looking Good! Viewing your two VW Bugs brought back memories! I haven't seen a Bug with wide tires and wheels since the early 70's! That style of wheels changed quickly here in So Cal with the "Cal Look" VW Bugs.

I can't wait to see the Little Wing flying! Great work!

Wayne

[WHY]

Hi James

DUDE YOU ARE CLOSE TO KICK BUTT !!!!!!!!!!

Tony

[magilla]

James - can you send me plans or a cut-out for how you did your air scoops?

Also, when your cowls were on, were the cowls sealed somehow to the scoops?

How are your operating temps?

[mcbirdman]

Hi Spencer, Been wondering how you have been doing. I haven't posted in a while and if you already knew all this - I guess I am putting it here for someone else who might appreciate having all this stuff put in perspective regarding cooling an aircooled engine from what I learned so far. I am still learning so keep this in mind. We don't see a lot of writing about tractors so who knows, might be interesting. If not, skip to my post after this one, but this is WHY I did it and WHAT I wanted to accomplish.

I didn't have a cowl plan to work from. The idea was based on the idea that I had seen on J3 cubs and photos I have seen. What I learned from driving my VW's is that They were designed to have the blower's airlow enter down on top of the engine mainly at the engine center between the jugs near the head to keep the head (valves) and jugs cooler . The jugs and head were clamshelled with a top and bottom piece that forced the air around both jugs and to exit at the bottom of each jug to maximize the use of the fins on the jugs. One of the jugs on the VW was known to burn valves because they also had stuck the oil cooler on the top of the engine in a way that blocked the proper airflow And increased the air temp to the jug as it got the already warmed air of the radiator above it. Knowing that the back two jugs and the backside of the front two as mounted in a tractor configuration it is easy to see that the engine could benefit from airflow redirection.

Knowing that the back cylinders were in direct line with each other I felt it was kinda the same problem as the VW having cooling on the back cylinder getting heated air from the oil cooler so I looked into it a bit. You could fly without the tins, In fact Ron H's gyro had a Vw on it before the radial he just hung the engine out there in the breeze which is fine. But they knew the VW always had this one valve on a back cylinder that was burning up.

I realized that I need everything I could get in the way of power to fly. I was going to work this engine hard and it needed to always be in peak shape, not tired and not burning itself up as I asked for all I could get. I didn't want a engine that needs new heads every 100 hours or whatever. I am telling you all of this because it affects HOW I decided to make the scoops. It isn't so much how you make them but what you are trying to make them do for your engine.

You remember that engine that I went to missouri to get with the redrive on it? It was tried out on an airboat and when we got it in the shop we realized we could fit the redrive on my existing engine even though it had the force one prop hub. Well, we had started tearing the engine down because we hadn't realized that yet, but wanted to check the condition of the unknown engine. We knew it hadn't likely been running much but when we took the head off we immediately could see the jugs had been getting hot where the two jugs were closest. We thought that on an airboat with the engine up in the breeze that it would have some airflow. I know the speeds are much less but still, the point is that there was uneven cooling and that can't be good. I had already made the cooling eyebrows for the single place the year before but it reinforced everything that I had been thinking. Yes it runs, but yes it had uneven cooling that led to unhealthy hotspots.

So what do you do with an engine that has power but really needs to be kept cool to be happy? If we are going to put bigger pistons and stroke them it means more fuel burnt but more heat being created and more reason to make sure we do everything we can to keep it from overheating.

There are two things we can do. One is to realize the oil cooler is directly linked to cooling the engine. Heat comes out through the oil and oil that is too hot doesn't lubricate which causes more heat. If we can extract excess heat from the oil it brings the engine temp down.

The second, which you ask about is cooling eyebrows. If we can scoop the air up in the front and make it pass around the cylinders as evenly as possible it will maximise the heat dissapatation, reduce hotspots and keep the back 1/2 of the engine from running hotter than the front 1/2.

So I made a choice, if I did nothing it would be ok for some period of time. Whatever flying I did, the available power would be reducing at some unknown rate and I would have questionable reliability based on this known destructive lack of cooling. I started looking around at photos and visited a museum and viewed what I think was a bird dog plane for observation flying (looked like a cub to me ). It had these tins that were wrapped around the heads big enough so the spark plugs fit inside the arch of the metal scoop. Then I realized that it didn't just exit out the back but was actually capped off.
It didn't make sense to me to let the air in but not let it just flow through smoothly but after reading on the internet and thinking about my cars I realized that they were letting the air flow but just re-directing it before letting it out the bottom. Forcing it around the cylinderhead fins to extract the heat before it exited near the bottom of the jugs.

So if we can let it in the front, maybe even block the air from hitting the fins in the very front of front cylinder and then let force it down around and between the cylinders and exit we will keep the head temps down as well as the jugs, which then affects the engine temp overall.

[mcbirdman]

So what did I do?

I got some thin cardboard or even better ...that thin posterboard works good.
and did some fitting. I don't' have plans but I kinda remember it going this way.

I think I realized that there were a couple places near the end of the head I could use to attach the tins to. I took off the valve cover and then traced the opening leaving several inches above the head for use later. I cut out the tracing smaller than the valve cover size so I could trim it to fit tightly. I cut the face piece so that it could slide in place from the top and fit between the head where it gets bigger and some studs where it is smaller. I screwed into the two studs above the top center of the heads so I would have an attatchment point. Those holes I think meant using a piece of angle alluminum with two holes in it. One for the engine and one for a screw clip.

Anyway, once you have the vertical part made you find some way of having the cardboard attach on top of the engine where it splits. You'll have to cut around things and find a way to attach similiarly. Leave enough poster board(remember I said THIN) to run back over to the now vertical piece. I used little aligator clips to hold the pieces together to visualize the shape of the eyebrow. work the posterboard so it arches up over the cylinders as in my photos.
I am realizing that if I can find some photos it will help much better and so I'll stop for now and see what I can find for you.

[bosca]

James,I maybe putting myself on a limb,however would fitting an electric automotive fan aft of the motor suffice.
Kym.

[mcbirdman]

Ok, I am back for a little while. We could use electric but that requires a change of energy from gas for motor, motor to electric and then electric to move air..... which we already have (air movement). What we need to do is capture and redirect the air being forced in through the scoop to flow from the top of the cyl. and heads down around the fins and exit out the bottom to carry the heat with it. Enclosed are some photos of how I did it. While it is true that air will slip through the holes around the intakes and other not tightly fitting areas, I think that I am forcing most of the airflow to go down to exit, not just to hit the fins on the front cylinder at the inlet. Hopefully these photos show you what I was trying to do. :)

I went out into the hanger at 15degrees and nighttime with a flashlight to take these photos for you Spence, I really want to see you get that baby done, hopefully this will help show you what to do or maybe what NOT to do
;)

I also found some other photos on my camera phone I may just place here so that if I need to refer back to them or they are just fun to see photos of a tractor.... they are here.

Note: on first photo the yellow line is the excess plate being notched so the tabs can be bent over at a 90 degree angle and then drilled for the clips/wnuts. I think I might have actually only used 3 or so screws. The solid line on front 1/2 is straight cut as it fits under the top of the eyebrow.
Second photo notice bottom half of cylinder with cooling tins installed from Great Plains. These tins fit under jugs but above pushrods with two holes for air to exit bottom of each cylinder
Take care, jtm

[mcbirdman]

Here are some photos from my camera phone. They include the newly completed side door that latches and has the unique ability to also have the upper 1/2 glass removed. It is lockable and the side window is removable/lockable also. I took the plane all the way into town for a special event on the Island in Grand Ledge. It was only about 1.5 miles so we hitched it up behind the VW and away we went. The color cruise on the island is a place to showcase my photography studio and with the plane it is hard not to notice us. It is a great way to advertise as it really draws a lot of attention.
I think the other photos are just misc such as putting them back in the hanger and progress photos. Here also is a photo of a poster sized photograph of when Ron Awad flew the single place. I gave him one of these wall photographs. Anyway, I just thought I would share what I have, even though it was just off my phone.... jtm

[WHY]

Hi James

Your cooling system looks FIRST CLASS in both construction and design, good work!!

Tony

[mcbirdman]

here are some more to clean off the phone. A bug photo in the summer and after driving 4 hours in a snowstorm that dumped 8" of snow.... Man it gets good traction...we were almost the only car out on the road.... more photos of the gyros. They aren't perfect but we sure put a lot of custom mod's into Them. Hopefully I can get a bit of money more ready to send out to Racer, we are going to need to get the engine/engine cage over here so I can figure out how to mount it and start the wiring.
I emailed Ron Herron and he told me he is getting some drawings ready for me so that I can move some of the control cables so that they will not be looping outside the aircraft and then up to the tower. He already had made these modifications to the plans on Keech's aircraft and it looks a lot cleaner so I will be starting on that soon.

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Tony. I remember the hot summer day we flew without the tins and ran the engine for 5 minutes WOT tied to a car out at the end of the runway at Mentone. A helpful man, was it Don Randle?, said that if it ran that long and didn't overheat would give a good likelyhood we'll be fine.

We ran it up to normal temp during that 5 minute test and didn't approach hot! Now, we are spinning a higher rpm, and harnessing more power so I thought I would do what I could so that this wouldn't become an issue that I would have to address in the future (hopefully).

Since I had more time than money, I added it on as something worthwile for an engine putting out about 55% more thrust. I guess I just figure now I am loading the engine more so at least during takeoff it could really use the help.

[magilla]

James, thanks for the info.

If you haven't read Bob Hoover's Blog, he has about the best info on cooling the VW.

The VW group on yahoo covers a lot of info also. I also bought Steve's (Great Plains VW) baffling manual.

Problem is, I ammaking scoops, like yours, and the baffling manual doesn't apply.

I like your design - my question really had to do with where you are venting the heat.

Bob Hoover says it is a must to file down the burrs on the head fins, as well as putting a plate BLOCKING the airflow between the two heads - this forces air around the fins. The most critical area is NOT between the two heads, but at the exhaust valves. Intake air helps cool the heads in the center portion.

Also, "Cool Tins" are a must.

From looking at your application, it seems that most of the hot air should exit in the 1/2" circle around the exhaust valve, and in the small seem between the two cylinders under the Cool Tins...

I was considering riveting the air scoops directly to the Cool Tins.

I should be up this summer. What kind of pre-rotator are you using? I am finishing a hook up between the flywheel and an e-clutch connected to a hydraulic pump. Should get me over 200 RRPM, if I can ever get it all together. The only thing I lack from that is the cooling tins...

Great responses, and great pics. Appreciate the time and effort to answer the question in detail.

[mcbirdman]

Hi Spencer,

No Problem, I am just excited for you. You also have to be getting close and I am happy for you. You have been through a lot getting it all reworked and rebuilt and now you have that monster prop and all.... Really cool !

I only have the lower tin which is placed up against the fins on jugs. Any air coming down the center also has to curve around to the bottom of jugs before exiting. I wondered if I should make a curved scoop on top of the head to help funnel air down into holes better. But realizing it already is pressured air on top, I think it has to "leak" down, around, and through anyway it can. After seeing the scorching in the bores where the jugs are next to each other I am not sure I would stop air from going there.

I can tell you that the T shaped upper tin is likely a throwback from VW engines still in the car. The blower in the car is forcing air straight down and it probably made sure the air wouldn't just shoot down that hole between the jugs. We WISH we had the air already flowing down.

I already have the CHT gauge on that known to overheat cylinder so that if what I have done isn't enough it will show up that the engine is running too hot. Right now I think I have improved the cooling of the engine similiar to the J-3 cub design.

BTW did you see the blower fan Great Plains had been working on for some time? running a belt up to top of engine from center hole in diehl acc. case? I wonder if they gave up on that. They said it was being explored due to the bigger demands placed on the engines with the redrives and all....That got me thinking that instead of robbing power off the engine and realizing we already have a blower on the front (prop) we might be able to make it work acceptably this way.

I have already cleaned the leftover casting flashing off between the fins as that Bob Hoover had mentioned. I have the electric prerotator and have only used it for a few runups but I think it ran it up at least 160. I'll see if I can find it in my notes here. Rooting for ya !
Oh yea, if you get some time, maybe we could get a deal on two:
http://www.dynonavionics.com/?gclid=CIDHsI3cy58CFWpd5Qodhywy3A

take care, jtm

[mcbirdman]

Well, as I am waiting to get my flight review, I have been busy tweaking the gyro.

Ron was right, the seat back was too low so I welded some vertical tubes onto the back and fabricated a rounded back that goes much higher on the back and is actually very comfortable now.

I moved the 02 meter and oil temp gauge to the center bottom of the panel. It was located next to my left knee and I was worried about either getting cut or ripping clothing with it hanging that low. It was sort of a temporary thing and I like them, going to keep them but moved them.

I routed a fuel return from the header tank back to the behind the seat tank. In case the pump is left on too long the fuel will just run back to rear tank.

I added an oil cooler in front of landing gear. I was not convinced that I would have enough airflow into the cowling with the new filter in place. Probably fine for cooler conditions but not for extreme summer days. I can always cover it up if it runs too cool.

I hid all the wires going up the mast. It looks much cleaner but I am not done fabricating some smaller pieces that will streamline/cleanup the mast support clamp area. It looks much more clean.

I added a left armrest. If the windows are in place there is nowhere to lean your elbow. Smooth inputs with a redrive are needed and this will help.

I polished the windows and put snaps around the window edges so that I can close her up better at nightime. Not sure which ones will be used and will stay so for now - snaps around front window and top.

I relocated the anti collision light farther back so that the alluminum wrap of the mast would be easier to accomplish. Lights further back will reflect off the blades a bit I'm sure.

Polished the blades and readjusted the fly weights/teeter limiters. Battery not charged fully but got 120-140rpm.

Well, I thought I would update you as I am making final tweaks as I wait for a call back for Flight Review.

The last photo is one of my friends sitting in it before I worked on the mast...

[RotoPlane]

Wow....this is a very impressive looking bird! I can't wait to read your flight review James……

[WHY]

Hey James

you getting NERVooooooooous yet , man you gettin close

Tony

[kolibri282]

Great looking aircraft, James!

Alan James' Pietenpol seems to have solved the cooling issue very similarly to what you did, althoug it's not visible what it looks like internally. There are more pictures of her here:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/g-buco_%28Alan%20James%29.htm
The bird in the last pic is from here:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_25.htm

Hals- und Beinbruch! *)

Juergen


*) Queer wording by which german pilots wish each other luck..;-)

[mcbirdman]

Thanks for the pix Juergen. It is the best I could do. This is still a 10' gyro. Built stout and looks best from over 10'. It sure has been a learning experience. The whole machine is custom fit parts that are hand fitted. The priority was to get the parts functional and at least aim for something that looked like it was made for that application. Always function over form but I tried to make it look good.

The more parts and curves there are... things get very complicated and require much more effort resolving issues. I can honestly see why a lot of people spend so much time with square tubing builds and can appreciate the amount of time making them look perfect. I hope others can look at that amount of work and see what it really took to get this bird looking so unique out of a pile of tubing and blueprints. A square tubing builder should at least have an idea how much effort is required for something of this magnitude.

Even though it isn't perfect, I think anyone could appreciate the results. Yesterday I went down to the airport and looked inside the rental planes. They fly overhead all the time and I look up and dream. Yesterday I realized how weather checked the cowling is and the panel. The carpet all tattered and the interior really worn. They really are looking old. I think I would be more embarressed to show those planes than mine.

I look at all the things I struggled with building the LW and see all her defects and feel like they stand out like a sore thumb. I then step back and admire the Overall Feeling I get from looking at her as a whole and realize that she is beautiful as the person you love. As no person is perfect we try to appreciate the person overall and the difference and joy it brings to your life. If I waited to find the perfect person or the perfect fitting pieces I would still be single and I still would not have something to fly.

Tony, yes I am nervous. The worst thing I can think of is wrecking my machine. Looking like a fool or an idiot. I have tried to take my time and do things to the best of my ability. I tried to learn right from wrong and listen and research the answers to my questions. I am trying to ease my way back into flying and obviously I want things to work out well for me. I decided a long time ago that it wasn't a race but a dream. I worked hard at trying to create a good dream, and avoiding a nightmare.

I don't mean this in any bad way what I am saying. I knew this was an involved project that would not run like an assembly manual. I knew I couldn't end up worrying about obtaining results like a production model car. If I kept making part after part and trying to fit it until it fit like that then I would never complete the project. The airframe parts all are fine but it gets hard when things like windows and door trim and such.... It comes down to making things fit as nice as you can without going overboard. Spending twice as much material to FINALLY get the perfect fit for a one off piece when it is strong enough is just another day I can't fly. There are different pieces I could have probably redone or tweaked but would only affect how it looked closeup. The part still does it's work even if it could have perhaps done differently, so it looks more like a production part.

I worked this project as much as I could and if I was going to make it better, it will occur if I have to recover the aircraft. That is when I could make the biggest difference. So for now, I have a training aircraft, something not too perfect that I am afraid to use. Something like my VW daily drivers, something like the rental planes that are all beat up... Something that is waiting for me, whenever I want to finally live my latest dream.

[kolibri282]

James - Even though it isn't perfect, I think anyone could appreciate the results

Unfortunately I have not been able so far to put anything together that would give me wings, thus I thoroughly admire you. My idea was that the Pietenpolt - Jets and the Gyro - Sharks could exchange know how on a pretty similar issue, maybe the people running the Pietenpol site could arrange a contact and know how exchange.

Cheers,


Juergen

PS: If ever I'd have half a chance I'd buy a Pietenpol and convert her to a tractor...;-)
(OK, just dreaming.....)

PPS: Saint Exupéry says: .....the quintessential state of a machine is not reached when you no longer can add to her. You've reached it if you can not omit anything anymore.
You're very close, James.

[mcbirdman]

Here is the numbers. Tied to a tree pulling slightly uphill and wheels on pieces of wood to keep from sinking into grass. 72"x42 pitch 1.6 Valley Redrive. 2180cc
2150 180
2900 220
3100 250
3200 280
3300 300
3340 310
3400 335
3500 340
3650 380
3690 400

I have a tiny tach and it varies/flickers a bit sometimes so I have to watch what it does and see where it seems to hold. The oil temp stayed at 220 and stayed there and only raised when I went beyond 3400 and then it only went up to 230. Egt stayed at 1200 and although it seemed in the hot summer I needed to enrichen the mixture with the addition of the second jet, I have the powerjet turned down all the way and the O2 sensor indicates a bit rich.
I had it up to 4200 this summer without a thrust reading and I bet it has to do with hot less dense air in the summer and likely allowed it to spin up to 4200 to get the same thrust numbers. All in all... We are definately feeling better about the redrive belt setup and the 400 lbs thrust.

With the rebuild
We exceeded the 215 lbs thrust they said obtainable by 8% to see 232
We exceeded the 350 they said with redrive 72"prop by over 8% to see 400
It is actually more like 14% better than they advertise.

It is interesting to me:
Max Throttle direct drive 62" full power we got 230 at about 2900 and the same with the redrive 72". But with the redrive we could push up past that
rpm effortlessly into the 3700+range where the power really came in. Pretty neat. Prop speed only 2214 wide open and only 1800 when it is making the
same power as the direct drive at 2900.

With 400lbs thrust turned down to 75% is 300lbs obtainable at 3300 which fits in with the 3200-3400 cruise rpm listed for direct drive.
But remember with smaller prop on full we could only get 230 at 3000, and yet we know the engine is just starting to make power at 3000.

Now that I have the bianual and medical I have been doing a little bit of high speed taxing. Rotors up to 230 or so, it feels good. My electric prerotator only goes up to 120 but I am glad I bought the Oddassy battery because I am not killing the tractor battery I had been using as I was building.

Not in any rush, not sure how far I will get before weather turns bad but it sure is nice to get more and more time on the engine and belts.

Rich came up last weekend and could not believe how the engine ran and felt. He hopped in and ran it up. He kept saying he couldn't believe the power and the wonderful sounds.
I wish I knew someone around here that could look at the magneto though. It runs, has less than 15 hours running time but seems like it is weak or misses sometimes. Maybe compared to the electronic ignition maybe it just feels that way. Well, times are still tough here but I had to find a little time to have at least a little fun.

[animal]

Man, you have been working on this bird for as long as I have been on the Forum. Glad to see you are getting good numbers now on the power.

Looking forward to the day we see this baby take flight. it is a very pretty Gyro.

Good luck on getting her in the air soon.

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Tim,

You're right. I know, it has been a long haul and if I had to do it over again - wait ! I am. I also built a basic two place frame and another rolling two place frame that is waiting for an engine in that time period. I don't feel so bad to have put the single place aside while I build/built my dream machine. I am not rich or anything, in fact being self employed in this economy is discouraging. I keep my head up and know I will claw forward inch by inch til we get them flying. I feel lucky to have 2 projects at any stage.

If I knew how much a redrive would improve things though, about 3+ years ago, I would have just put a redrive on it. (aside from being told it wouldn't fit). The last several years this technique to get power out of a conversion engine has been proven repeatedly. I posted the numbers for anyone out there that wants actual specific numbers in order to learn from this. I wish I had this information back then.

If you want to fly over 700 lbs on a tractor you can do it with 230 lbs thrust but with my engine the way it was setup- likely would require full throttle most of the time. If you want to fly and have a range of speed available you gotta have extra power. The general lb thrust for every 2lb goal for good performance is met and exceeded. With the engine out front it likely means even better performance. Having a larger prop helps push the air around the fuselage easier than a small prop.

I'd like to think that 1.6 redrive is the 65% better performance and the remaining 10% increase is because of the 10" bigger prop and engine tweaking. Now in the proper power curve with the redrive and bigger prop, we have 75% more power than when you saw it fly before. I wish Ron A. lived closer.

[Jazzenjohn]

If you want to fly over 700 lbs on a tractor you can do it with 230 lbs thrust

No James, you can't under any normal circumstances. While your gyro briefly left the ground in ground effect along the runway with that low thrust, it is a far cry to claim that a gyro can be flown that way. Don't let some new guy fall into the same trap you just got out of.

A good Thrust to weight ratio is extremely important for a decent performance. Thrust equaling half or more of the AUW is a good target. 1/3 is unacceptable.

[mcbirdman]

Hi John, I am sorry, that is not my point. You can't take one sentence out of the whole thing and ignore the following information in the paragraph can you? That takes everything out of context. That is a bit unfair. I did mention you would have to fly on full power all the time. Who would want that? Why would that be bad for the engine? Don't you know this is a negative thing? I was not promoting the notion of flying at 230, just saying it was enough to fly. Further I have been quite clear that I needed more power to solve an important problem to me so keeping it in context should have been easy. Thats okay, even though you never have come all the way up here to meet up with another gyronut, you usually pay attention and offer good information.... :) :)

I know what you are saying but point out that Ron thought about flying it around the pattern and it would have - and not just ground effect. So even at that power he was still thinking of going pattern -so it couldn't have been THAT bad. I am not sure how you got all that from one sentence when there was plenty of detail in the others to keep proper context.

Also, my thoughts maybe Not as far a cry as you think. The actual point of interest I was trying to get at is that the rule of thumb is more for pushers. You know, like how a cub originally flew on like 40 hp? Maybe not great by todays standards but they did fly and I find it notable. No one seems to know what it really needs when it is a tractor, it just seems that most info is based on more readily pusher info. We know the tractor has some advantages and the fact it lifted off that heavy is impressive, but not fantastic so to speak....

Still, I know what you mean that to fly effectively with power to spare you definately need more than what we had and I agree - that is why we worked so hard to figure this out. But it would have flown. It did.

Also similiar thrust on the Howard LW. similiar weight and unknown rotors but it flew at 200 ft per minute climb. No rocket ship but it flew also. Hard to know because there just aren't enough tractors out there flying yet. Interesting it flew on same power others have but they were unhappy with the performance and so would I. Not even enough reserve power available for the inexperienced. That is why it was not good enough to leave it like this and you are right - and I did not intend to imply it is good enough but my real point was missed- and that is ok - I just wonder how much less power is needed for a tractor configuration than is generally believed. I was on the short end of it but feel that the thrust required might be surprisingly less than previously thought. To be more clear, I am thinking that 100 lbs thrust on the 230 might be just fine. It is 30% more power but might be enough extra to do what is needed. Getting 75% more is awesome. I am glad that it isn't just the extra 100 because good or bad it may be all I had to work with.

Once I get some time flying, I might be able to tell you whether or not 2900 /230 lbs thrust will keep me in the air. I already know it does something but I needed much more. Time will tell if I am right. I just think that certain designs might require a bit less power to fly, and with more tractors getting ready to fly it will be fun to explore and record for consideration. just at this rate...... lol.......

[StanFoster]

Jim- I have watched this thread from the beginning, and met you at Mentone when Ron first flew your Little Wing. Just seeing something you built fly for the first time is a good feeling, and I could see your excitement! It was power challenged but Ron stepped up and flew it even though he needed every ounce of thrust out of that engine. You went home all excited about it at least flying, and you knew you had to get much more thrust out of it. Everyone has to make a living, and sometimes this leaves no time or money for our hobby. You tenaciously and methodically struggled on and here we are seeing very high thrust numbers! Way to go, it should be a pleasure to fly at partial throttle now, and having a lot extra for climb out. Looking forward to seeing you flying your creation. Best to ya. Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Hi Jim

I too was at Mentone when you were trying to get your creation in the Air. It is good that you have corrected the thrust problem. Now maybe you can fly your gyro and get the satisfaction of flying a gyro. Even tho we have had our differences I really do wish you the Best of luck .

[Jazzenjohn]

To be more clear, I am thinking that 100 lbs thrust on the 230 might be just fine. It is 30% more power but might be enough extra to do what is needed. Getting 75% more is awesome. I am glad that it isn't just the extra 100 because good or bad it may be all I had to work with.

Sorry Jim. I've seen a few gyros on the forum where people worked very hard and were justifiably proud of there machines only to find they were just short of an acceptable amount of thrust. Billygyro is another one and I myself did the same thing when I bought a pitifully weak paraplane many years ago as well as my first Bee. It is frustrating. I often make a point of saying similar things about Bee's with 447's unless the pilot is a lightweight. Yes mine flew with it, but is it really an acceptable level of performance? Who doesn't upgrade to at least a 503?

As far as if the tractors need less thrust, I agree it would be great it there were several more to compare, especially a tractor ultralight. I also think you might have had enough with just 50-100 more pounds of thrust (which is really quite a bit.) The thrust you have now on that machine, it'll be an absolute Rocket Ship. I'm very interested in seeing it fly again!

[mcbirdman]

Well, I am going to take a side trip and let you know what has been going on here. I am always doing something and usually it is making something, learning or both. With Tom M's obvious interest and others similiar interest I will share a little about myself. I have been considering writing this or not and with all the work still ahead I struggle to get it into words. It will take a few posts to get through the story so bear with me as I try to get it right. I will post a few photos as I can.

Back when I was going to college for my Photography Degree my father, asked me if I would like to build a boat before I got too busy in my life. Boats meant a lot to me as my mother and father had built a 17' semi V runabout frame kit. It had mahogony decks and was used extensively since the 1960's for trips, fishing and skiing. My answer was a very excited yes. You see, I had found a 1980's popular mechanics article featuring a small cruising sailboat built from backyard tools. I had already built a pram and was not sure that sailing really worked. If we sailed tightly upwind all day we would only be even with our relative starting position. Starting such a build I had to have faith that this boat would actually go somewhere. I had come to the conclusion that the first boat was too small for the demands I placed on it. I sailed on lakes and even used the pram to sail up the Grand River and still have photos of it being downtown Grand Ledge by the Island.

I did end up builidng the boat and I remember when I put up the jib on the first launch and having it point and hold a tack even before the mainsail had raised. The boat has a wooden steering wheel on the back and a cuddy cabin for two to sleep on trips. It had 4 oval portholes with one way gold glass set in mahogany frames. I drew a mermaid on the trailboards and gave her a Michigan seashell top. (small). Through the years I made changes on the boat that I had built from the 15.00? plans. I added a built in ice cooler. I eliminated the centerboard and made the boat semiV with waterballast and lengthened the wooden mast to alluminum 20", which was gaff rigged of course with wood deadeye block and tackle. I made the sails from tarps, duct tape and fishline for only 20.00 or so. No rot, rip or mildue and they were colored orange. The boat was painted bright yellow. Visibility has always been important. The longest trip I went on was with my father in his speedboat and my trained cockatiel and I in the sailboat from Muskegon to Ludington and back which I think is apx 100 miles on Lake Michigan. The bird was yellow like the boat and had bright orange cheeks to match the sail...

With that background, and fast forwarding from the 1980's to 2008 I told my son that I would like to have a boat building bee for any of the nieces or nepheews so that they could have a small boat themselves to have as much fun and adventure as I had. Starting the first boat I would always keep a template for my design so that any changes or modifications could be incorporated into the new boats.

I built the boat without plans and just eyeballing it as I went. I read on the internet that you could cut the bottom shape and glue it onto a keel. The sides were 3 strips of 1/4" flooring that were overlapped and glued together to have the old wood boat look. What was different was that I used a drill to put holes down the entire edge of the bottom of the boat and sides so that I could use nylon ties to draw the boat together like a moccasin. Once it was together I used a mixture of fibre and epoxy to make fillets to fill in the holes and bond the boat together. Although none of the other kids took me up on my offer, my youngest son, 11 at the time, and I made it so he could row the boat. He actually hopped in the boat and rowed it across the Lake Muskegon Bay over to where I was sailing. It moved so effortlessly he wasn't even tired...

This year, I really wanted to finish/figure out building the rudder, mastbox, running rigging, bowsprit and sailplan so I pushed ahead. He kept saying that he didn't care if it sailed but I kept telling him that for a little more work he will have an awesome boat that everyone will notice. Something that screams adventure and that he can go anywhere without a lot of work.
I am getting ready to pause here because a few photos are in order....

My dad's boat as we are rebuilding, Construction of Jacob's Adventurer, making sails, first time with sails. 2 adults, one young adult and 25mph gusts. Last Photo, getting ready for the anual Color Cruise festival on the Island where his boat and my gyro were on display.

[mcbirdman]

These are some photos of the boat that I built when I was 18. I still have the boat and was the basis for the smaller one for Jacob. We have had SO MUCH fun with this boat from man overboard drills out in the open where someone jumps out and we have to turnaround and scoop them back in to camping trips.

After we added the water ballast we noticed that not only were people coming down to the boat launch to check out the unique boat but was surprised to find that nearly everytime we pulled the boat out how many people said "boy, you got that out of the water just in time" as all the hundreds of pounds of water would drain out the boat. The boat probably weighs around 500 lbs on the trailer and quickly found out how much better she sailed when loaded with people. Adding water only made it heavy in the water and yet easily trailerable with just a chevette back then. The long bowsprit would hang over the hatchback reaching half way up the front of the car into a nice compact setup.

It was a two place weekender sloop and at my friends mention.... We called her the Little Duece Sloop......

[StanFoster]

James- Thanks for sharing your boat building with us. I know nothing about boats, but can appreciate your nice work building one. Boat building is the pinnacle of the woodworking trades. I glance at a magazine once in awhile called Boat Building? ? Anyway its full of jaw dropping craftsmanship that takes a lifetime to really master. I am probably fortunate I am land locked here in Illinois away from true artisans. Stan

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Thom, John and Stan.

So knowing that that Color Cruise was coming up I had to get things ready. It is a chance to showcase my work in the community and the hook to get them in the booth is the gyro. I have had the Duece Sloop at the show before, anchored at my booth. We even were asked to display it on the lawn at the museum because of the sailing we did over 25 years ago. It was my goal to have the 3 boats and 3 generation of boat builders take another trip this year but time go short and it looks like next year.

I have been fighting the neighbors for years - they said they were totally unaware of any water problems in their commercial storefront that is located on a downtown street with all the buildings up next to each other. It has been hard to keep my chin up because the neighbors keep trying to talk my renters out of paying rent or staying with me even though they are causing a problem by not fixing it. I have taken care of a blind man who owns a gameroom 2 doors down from my studio and has been in my back apartment for years. 3 years ago I helped him through quad bypass and heart valve replacement on top of the problems causing damage and interuption to my business. Well, I have only recently got the building inspector to write a letter to my insurence saying that it isn't my fault and even if I put number 3 new roof down it won't fix the problem of their water getting under all my new roofs. I even went out on a limb and bought a FLIR camera to prove that water is in their wall and I can't stop the infiltration.

Okay, so here is some new photos of the new toy that would have helped me get my yamaha engine from Todd, had I not had to raid my piggy bank. I now have a 110k estimate to fix the problems caused by them and with something this big needed special photos for the non believers.... For fun.... okay NOT fun...this is not my wall and it should have been apparent years ago a fix is required.... I tell you this because I dream of flying but it is hard to imagine how I can move forward when I keep getting attacked in so many ways. So here is some cool photos I am saving the best ones but this gives you an idea. There is a shot of my arm/veins, electrical panel a hand print from just touching something for a second and when I first saw how sensitive this camera was.... I went back 10 minutes after being in bed and took a photo... and Steve, the blind guy who runs the gameroom. I wanted to update him with my new tool for documentation.

[mcbirdman]

So anyway, trying to keep moving forward regarding the Color Cruise, my good neighbors at home helped me setup late Thursday nite for a Fri-Sunday run. We put the Gyro on the back of the car and drove it 2.5 miles to town. I made some blade supports to keep the blades from slapping around and they worked wonderfully.... greatly reduced the setup time. We made another run for Photos and Jacob's Adventurer and placed them on the island for an early Friday setup so as to avoid congestion getting on the island and through town.

Friday is mostly kids on fieldtrips and I setup Jacobs boat and the booth. Beautiful weather and in fact the best I have seen yet in the many years of display during Color Cruise. The Color Cruise is local businesses along with things like blacksmithing, kettle corn, apple cider making and even an 1800's settlement at the west end of the island. Then there is the gazebo in the middle with scheduled performances all day long. I only had my cel phone and I used it to grab photos. Now I am getting to the point that Tom was at about unique experiences. Saturday came and so did Jacob, to have fun all day.
During that time I told him that we survived our first tests in gusty weather and that it was still important to be careful on the river. There is a dam further down, an active 1900's train treslle and most important the 2 story paddleboat giving rides to view the colors and see the ledges that people mountain climb.

I'll tell you, it was amazing how much attention was on the boat that jacob kept rowing around. He gave some rides to friends and when a settler came down and was telling Jacob how cool it was to preserve history, I thought I would tell Jacob to take him back to settlement. As he did I walked along the island and the settlement with jacob rowing past them.... So cool !

[mcbirdman]

So here, I am seeing what it must have looked like when I have brought down there through the years as a young man full of energy. I wanted my son to have something I made in case something happens to me. I needed to teach him and need him to know how much I love him.
I can't tell you how proud I was to see him having so much fun and knowing that he is learning so much. He tested really high on his SAT scores and is only 13. Higher than a college bound senior I think in 3 out of 4 areas. He is taking Algebra now instead of waiting til High School. Anyway... It is hard to explain what it feels like but just look how memorable and precious these memories are.... We almost got him a tethered ride in the remax balloon tied up next to the island on the baseball field. It was a perfect day to always treasure.

[mcbirdman]

I think some of them thought I was just taking a photo of them.. Well, I was, sort of......

[mcbirdman]

I remember when he struggled to make it back under the small bridge as he only cleared it by inches on one side and the mast hit when he came back on the other. As people coached him and cheered him on we all clapped as he figured it out.

Imagine my surprise when my sister in law's parents came back from the other end of the island wondering if I knew my kid was in the water..... And then when I realized they really meant IN the water.... I walked as fast as I could without running to the end of the island and sure enough.... there he was with a big red bucket bailing and a kyak docked up next to him. I leaned on the railing and asked the ladies watching him how a boy could survive rough weather and somehow end up tipping over in calm water.... I asked them if the warm weather, water and being a boy had anything to do with it.... We just laughed and watched. He was out of range of hearing and I think the man overboard drills we have practised on the sloop gave him a a bit of confidence...

After he bailed enough and seperated from the rescue kyak he started rowing back up towards the east side of the island. I will never forget his "casual" look on his face as he tried to act "cool" when he saw me... He looked down for a second as he waited for me to say something and to think of something if I didn't. He looks back up and says "Hey dad ! I guess I'm done for a while" , not knowing if I noticed or not. I guess the way his life preserver was all wet and the white shirt he was wearing all glued on him was unnoticed by him. I just laughed.

Then, after he got back, I called in dry clothes and he finished bailing he told me what happened as he asked me to take the red bucket back to the main dock. It seems he looked up to the sky to grab a loose rope on the boom, got disoriented and rolled it. The 2 decker riverboat came by with passengers, pulled alongside, shut off engines and asked if he was in need of help. He said he was fine and they threw the bucket over the rail and off they went. I know that he will never forget that Adventure of Jacob's.

[mcbirdman]

So after a long day Saturday and not having been around the Studio as much we decided to check on our friend Steve, the blindman who was fiercely independant as much as possible. He has had siezures for years and I have had to fight with others who would have put him in a home for years instead of running a business.

I don't get paid to watch him, I just do it because no one else does and he has been a good friend for 25 years. I am the one that gets the calls in the night from the police or people that know and I have always done my best to help him and others. I have had to check on him many times for many years and when I went in his apartment to find him I can assure you that shock isn't the word as I realized he must have been there dead for two days. I knew something was wrong when I opened the door but did not let my nervousness stop me from going further. I won't tell you exactly what I found but I can tell you that it isn't something that you want burned in your brain. The last week of cleanup since he hasn't seen family for over 25 years has and is hard on us. Orginizing a service and getting up to recount his life is hard.. I feel glad I was there to help him against adversity but while I was displaying on the island and having the time of my life, Steve was lying there ending his. The contrast is very difficult.

I am trying to look forward and to do what is required as I keep pushing ahead. I can't re rent the apartment until it is fixed up due to the flooding and only a blind man would have put up with the struggles I encountered fighting to save the building. It is ironic that I make my living off from my sight so that I can help someone who doesn't have any. I am so tired of the challenges over the last few years and I miss riding in a gyro so much. I worked so hard getting biannual, medical and the engine thrust to work. "Lil Wind" is waiting for me and I am so tired - I think it will be spring before I get to fly again, or to think about being in my own.

I just want you all to know that life is rough but no matter how rough you have had it someone else has it worse. I know how hard it was for Steve to have seizures, blindness and an abandoned family life and yet he pressed on. He impressed me and I am glad to have known and learned from him. Life has many twists and unexpected turns and yet things that are connected so tightly? Who would think that a love of flying is connected with words like boats, islands, family, Flir Cameras, gamerooms and blindness? I am sorry but I just had to share this with you. I am ok. I just do what I have to and dream about what I want.

I have wanted to fly and the more I try it seems the farther it gets. Maybe it seems like rambling but I just had to write it down. This is all a part of the story that is part of the path towards the freedom I seek. I know even flying we aren't free as we have to come down for fuel - but for a while, looking down, everything looks so much smaller in the overall scheme of things.

I hope to reduce the problems by increasing the altitude even if it is only a few feet at a time.

jtm

[Jazzenjohn]

Sorry to hear about your friend passing away James. I know it's impossible to unsee something, but I'm sure you have many good memories of him that you can focus on.

[Brian]

life is upredictable at best enjoy today tomarrow may not be as you expect

[mcbirdman]

Just before the weather changed I experimented with cameras and high speed taxing. NOT FLYING but hopefully enjoyable still:
AirportCruisin1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRSwKZkIhUY)

http://youtu.be/DRSwKZkIhUY

[mercert]

James,

looking good my freind! keep going and flight will eventually come your way! I am hoping that you, Brad and myself get in the air this year and meet at Mentone! that is what i am shooting for. It would be great to see a flock of LW's in the air!

Tim

[okikuma]

James,

It's difficult to tell in the video, but were these high speed taxi tests performed with the rotor stationary?

Wayne

[mcbirdman]

Thanks Tim. We'll see if I can move ahead with things.

The nite runs were done some with and some without rotor spinning. Those were some of the first times I went and taxied. I wasn't going as fast and the taxiway was smooth. My friend came too late to get daytime test videos so I used what I had. Later, after reviewing videos, I made further changes and tried again. The gyroplane based videos were using rotors spinning. You can see that onboard the stick is back and unlocked. I was trying to get used to feeding them air. Some of the side shots were from initial tests also. I just hated to throw out the footage of what we have done so far.

Sometimes I got up to about 20mph with rotors around almost 300 at one point but I think avg around 250? I think and I was nowhere near full throttle. Emailing Ron H. it became apparent that I was getting light and additional throttle I would have lifted but I was trying to learn how it felt working the rotors up to speed and trying to figure out how much runway I would burn up working them up. This was done when the weather was good but I ran out of time.

I did find that leaving the prerotator on for several runs in a row are too much draw and not enough recharge time. I then started doing a minimal prerotate and tried to drag them up to conserve energy.