The RAF Engine and Exhaust Systems.

[Harry_S.]

Continuing on in the effort to make future searches easier in finding specific info...this thread will be devoted to engine and exhaust information. Hopefully this will be a thread for Q and A, as well.

So...

[paulp]

Howdy Tribe,

Interesting experience this am. Flew early for .8hr. Everything fine. Had 6 show up for our monthly gyro get-to-gather. BS session for about 2 hrs. Somebody said Paul let's see if your RAF really flys. I said OK. Pre-flt ok. Taxi ok. Take off ok. One touch and go ok. On climb out heard a strange noise. Sort of a popping. Instrument check says everything normal. Cut the downwind leg short and set the bird down. The noise dissipated when the power came off. During taxi to the hangar the sound was still there but muffeled(no pun intended). At the hangar, an inspection revealed that the entire down pipe at the header weld had broken on the right side of the muffler and it was hanging down about 1". After looking at the whole thing we all agreed that if the springs that secured the left side had also came loose, the entire muffler could have came loose and potentially gone thru the prop or have fallen and landed on the rubber fuel lines and melted same thus creating an even more interesting flight. I should have the muffler repaired by Mon but when I reinstall it, I am going to secure it via 7/32" safety cables on each side of the muffler running to the engine mount.

[Aussie_Paul]

Howdy Tribe,

I should have the muffler repaired by Mon but when I reinstall it, I am going to secure it via 7/32" safety cables on each side of the muffler running to the engine mount.

You need one of these Paul.

Aussie Paul.:)

[paulp]

Howdy Paul B,

That looks like what I've got!!!(except it's not broken!)

[Harry_S.]

Howdy Paul B,

That looks like what I've got!!!(except it's not broken!)



Can you post a pic or two...Paulp?!


Cheers :)

[paulp]

Howdy Harry,

If I could post pics I would be in tall cotton. I consider it a small miricle that I can post on this forum and not get a message that says "MISSLE LAUNCHED".

My last attempt at posting pics was a total failure. However, a discription of what occurred was that just above the weld on the right side of the exhaust manifold the exhaust down pipe broke and came apart. It was only held in place by the other side via the two springs.

I rewelded it together this am, installed same and made one trip around the pattern. Shut down and inspected the weld and checked for leakage at the header flanges. Everything OK. Put anothe .5 hr on the bird and did another close inspection during post flt.

Before I did the repair job, I took a hard look at where the metal seperated. It appeared to be striated and had a crystalline looking structure. My guess is that some idiot took it upon himself to quench the weld in water immediately after welding it up. I put it back together with some low carbon rod and made 3 passes. It looks ok and will probably hold up alright. It did, however ruin my cerm-a-chrome finish. Tomorrow I plan to install some saftey cables on each side of the muffler so that if this happens again, the muffler will not fall off and go into the prop and possibly into the rotor system.

[Aussie_Paul]

Howdy Paul B,

That looks like what I've got!!!(except it's not broken!)

Paulp, does yours have the flexi joints between the muffler and the flange?

Aussie Paul. :)

[Aussie_Paul]

Where's Ken J. I thought he would have jumped in with the this works well "SUPER TRAPS" promotion!!!!:D

Aussie Paul. :)

[gab76]

Hey that's not fair to Ken J. He doesn't have that bird anymore. It's in my hangar here in Missouri with the exhaust being repaired! A crack in the exhaust none the less....(honestly)

My friend bought it from Ken and stores it here at the airpark as I am teaching him to fly it

[paulp]

Howdy Paul B,

Interesting that you should mention flexable joints. I was thinking about adding a flair elbow and some flanges to the right side-similar to the left side so that the right side would not have a rigid mount and the whole thing could move a tad thus eliminating some of the cracking and breaking problem.

Is there such a thing as a flexable joint for a high temp application?

[Gary_in_Orygun]

I wondered how those Trapps would fair without some support . At least the RAF muffler ties both ends together. Just wish it wasn't so close to the radiator. Also, those of us with fuel injection and an o2 sensor need a place to mount the sensor, preferablly connected to both sides of the engine.

I just posted in my "lost RPM" thread that I found out the insides of my muffler fell to many pieces. Need a new one, and need it in 4 days so I'm ready for our big fly-in here next weekend in McMinnville. Will call RAF tomorrow and cross my fingers. My current muffler has ~250 hours on it, and is 5 years old.

[chuter]

Paul P.

Look closely at the pics Paul B. posted; those are flex joints made for exhaust systems. They're fairly common.

Don't know why we didn't think of that Saturday.

[paulp]

Hey Mike,

Thanks-Where can they be obtained? I'm still considering the swaged elbow and flange with the springs holding it in place.:confused:

[chuter]

I'm guessing an exhaust shop whould have them, though I haven't really had to find any lately.

Since you've already fixed it I'd probably use what you got until it breaks again; it may last a while. And if you've got the safety cables it shouldn't be able to cause any bigger problems.

[Dean_Dolph]

Hey, Greg B., why was I under the impression that you were training in Texas? Minor hi-jack but I'm curious.

[PW_Plack]

Gary, as a temporary measure, what about junkyard Soob exhaust manifolds with pieces of straight pipe?

You wouldn't have to bother with the radio call, "departing runway zero-2, pavement, Lenhardt." Everyone would already know!

[Harry_S.]

Thom:

How's it going with the breakin time on your new soob?

I assume you got to 5 hrs. You want to baby that *baby*, so did you change the oil and filter at 5 hrs.?


Cheers :)

[gab76]

Hi Dean,

Sorry no reply sooner. I do train in Texas for Air Command. And since we have been grounded there while doing an engine swap to Subaru, I started helping out a Texas Rotorcraft Club flying Larry Neals Turbo Golden Butterfly. Some of you might remember me at Bensen Days trying to fly the Turbo for owner Bob O'Dell but the Turbo machine was still under development and I wasn't happy with the performance. I got to demonstrate an actual engine out for a prospective student too!

Since I work for American Airlines, I keep a truck at the employee parking lot at DFW. What I do is fly down to DFW (cost nothing) grab my truck and either drive east or west depending where I am flying.

Next spring, I will have my own AC Tandem Soob 2.5 powered trainer at the Block Air Village where I live and will train out of there more. I can't legally have a business here so I will officially be operating out of Clay County Regional or Plattsburg, Missouri airport if they improve their crumbling asphalt runway.

What my long range plans are for the gyroplane industry (I am 48 years old and I plan to retire with 25 years at AA in two years) is: learn all I can about or catch up! the new state of affairs in gyroplanes. (I was retired from training and from flying gyros up to three years ago). Get more into test flying and setting up gyros for new owners, train them and solo them off. Encourage them to get a Sport Plane license and/or train them to get their license. Scheduling permitting, fly out or travel to the students place of operation and get them flying safely. Then continue to support them any way I can.

I have presently given training in AC Tandem, Hirth and Subaru powered machines, Golden Butterly Turbo and non-turbo powered gyros and RAF2000 AAI conversion gyroplane.

I will shortly be working with a future Sparrowhawk dealer in Grapevine, Texas to get established dealership and perhaps train a future CFI there when he designates an interested party. A CFI on staff is required for a dealership like most companies.

I am in discussion with a interested investor in opening a gyroplane training center in western Missouri offering training in three or four types of gyroplanes. A one stop training center for the manufacturers supporting the midwest or the whole US if you will.

[dragonflyerthom]

Thom:

How's it going with the breakin time on your new soob?

I assume you got to 5 hrs. You want to baby that *baby*, so did you change the oil and filter at 5 hrs.?


Cheers :)
Harry S

I now have two hours on the engine. I find it difficult to just let it run. I start it and let it run on 15 minute intervals. I will follow you recomendation and change the oil at 5 hours. Boy does it have the torq. It makes things fly around all over the place. I don't know where all that stuff comes from It is like a vacuum and just suck thing from out of no where. Ha.

I really do appreciate you help

Thom:D

[rgraffeo]

Aussie Paul,
Who makes that muffler in the picture?
Is it set up for carb heat?

[dragonflyerthom]

Harry S

Can you tell me about the oil stick level on your Gyro? Mine with only 4 quarts of oil in it is just above the hole for full. That would indicate it being over full. Is yours like this on your 2.2 Soob.

[Aussie_Paul]

.....I don't think that the hole is the full mark. I think it is the notch above the hole as there is a notch for the "add oil" level below the hole.

Aussie Paul.:)

[OzyRuss]

Have been caught exactly the same way with my ej22, oil level weird reading on the dipstick.

Solution....drained oil, fitted new filter...........then filled with the manuals recomendation as to how much oil........then run the engine for a minute or 2, check dipstick level......... that is now my reference point from then on as to "full".

[dragonflyerthom]

Good point Russ

I have just done the same thing. It was above the hole in the stick. Below is an F and just above the lower hole is a mark which must be the add mark. It is just a bit confusing.

Thom

[Harry_S.]

Harry S

Can you tell me about the oil stick level on your Gyro? Mine with only 4 quarts of oil in it is just above the hole for full. That would indicate it being over full. Is yours like this on your 2.2 Soob.



Thom;

I think most 2.2's won't take a full 4 qt. of oil. Mine won't. I mean, it will take the 4 but will throw the excess out till it reaches its good level.;) My soob runs just fine when the oil level on the dipstick is just on the letter "F"; when I change oil, I fill the filter first, install it and then put all but 1/4 of the last bottle in the oil pan. After I run the engine a few min. and check the level, I may have to add a couple spoonfuls.


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Thanks Harry

I had a feeling that would be the case.


Thom

[Harry_S.]

Thom;

How's the engine run comin' along?! You hittin' it pretty good, I hope.

Keep us up to date, why don't ya?!;)



Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Hey Thom... you there?!

Let us know how your engine break-in is going?

Any problems?


Cheers :)