Birth of a New Prop

[Ron Iaconis]

Here is the beginnings of my next new hand made prop.
The last one was started by my son,in 1985, he glued it, and drew the pencil lines for the necessary cuts to be made,,,and he band sawed the " bottom "side( rough cut) and I did the rest just this last spring. TRhe prop performs well,,,,and thrusts 285 lbs ( pushing against a bathroom scale). It's specs are 50X28,,,,,I now want to start from scratch and make another one specked out at 52X26 to hopefully attain a thrusr of closer to 320 lbs,,,,,which is what my Culver prop from 1987 did on my 72 Mac/single 1920 Holley carb/expansion chambered machine. So here's hoping that I can make it happen.

[dragonflyerthom]

Ron

That is a really nice looking prop. Did it balance out ok? Now I know youcan make a prop faster than 21 years. lol lol lol


Thom

[Ron Iaconis]

Hey,
My son glued it and marked it off,,,,with a pencil,,,and it was put on a shelf in my work shop totally forgotten till this spring,,,,,,Then I found out that I needed a prop for my Bensen,,,,and there you have it,,,,I started carvimng it out and bingo! we have a prop,,,,Yes it balanced out fairly nice,,,I flew it and all seems well,,,,but I want more thrust( ya see when he started it ( the prop) all were flying 50 inchers,,,,and about 5 years later all started flying 52 inchers,,,,,I put a Culver 52X26 on and it thrusted at 320 lbs at Middletown 1987 ish ( can't remember exactly when) but none the less My 72 Mac/1920 carb,expansion chambered gyro thrusted more than most 90 Mac's with two carbs,,,,,,so,,,,,I am attempting to get the 320 lbs back! My total cost including all material and even a rotary orbital sander is $130.00 compared to $495.00 factory including shipping.

[Phil_Ruffin]

Please take plenty of photos of the progress and post them. Thanks.

[John Stahl]

Where did you get the stencils for the rough cut?

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Hello Ron.

That prop certainly looks top class.

All those years do make a difference, seasoning, ageing, and of course attachment.

Congratulations.
Rehan

[StanFoster]

Ron: Nice prop and I am following the new one with a very twisted mind....:D

I would be interested on how you arrive at the pitch angles of the prop chord as it progresses to a shallower pithc the further it is from the hub.

Do you have some kind of a trammel bar that allows smooth progression for the pitch changes? In other words a bar that is riding an inclined ramp set so that it reduces the pitch angle at an even ratio with the radius from the hub center.

I am always just curious and fascinated by work in curvature.

Stan

[Caribean_gyro]

Ron why not more pitch so you get a better bite and reduce rpm in the MC.

we use 50-30 and we are getting 3600 rpm max and cruise at 3,400. cht have ben aroun 375 and 450 max.

chuckP

[Ron Iaconis]

Hi,
I'll try to answer as many questions as I can ,,,,
First I use two books on propeller making. One is a simple book, I like it best, and the other is very wordy( the old man's toungue waggs as much as an old dog's tail),,,, But Prop dia and pitch is an ever evasive quest. Some say 50X30 is good others say 50X32, 52X24,, 52 X26. But the HP of the engine is and how well it runs does help determine it's thrust along with the design. When you start to read the first hand experiences of the prop makers( small pop tool shed guys) and the more prominent prop guys, it does boil down to a close diameter/pitch realm. The books give the math formulas needed to come to your pitch that you have decided on( in my case from past props I will be making a 52X 26 for my Mac) My Mac is a single carb 1940 Holley expansioned chambered engine, that runs very strong( has the third top ring).
After the prop blank is glued the book directs you to draw a center line and mark it off in graduants of 2 inches from the root to the tip. As well you need to come to a decision on the profile of the prop( swept back, not swept back, and other styles, that the books show for reference.With this profile you draw up, you only make one side of the profile, and pivot it around to the other side of the prop blank to trace it onto the opposite side to get both sides the exact same dimentions. Then to make it a simple explanation, you cross cut the lines that are drawn onto the blank and using a woodchisel you " hack out the wood". Using a band saw to cut some of the prop is a great help on the certain areas of the prop,,,,,which the books explain. I am not in anyway,,, here attempting to explain how to make a prop from this posting,,,,just an attempt to " wet your whistle" to let you see if it's for you.
It took me years and years to just get to the point that I am at to even think that I could possibly make my own prop. And the driving force that made me try it was I wanted to save $350.00 and that included the extra tools to help with the job. Not the band saw ,,,but just small tools like an orbital recip palm sander( Hook& Loop sander) ect. I have about $135.00 in costs for my next prop including the new sander I bought and sand paper/urathane,ect
If you are just casually thinking of making a prop and not very serious ,,,I recommend that you just look on the web at about 5 different companies that will ship you a prop for a VW,Mac ect sizes and pitches alrerady noted for almost a bolt on , turn key setup. Aircraft Spruce/Tennessee Prop/ Culver and many more are out there just waiting to accept your monies and ship you a finished prop. I prefer to " do it myself" as I did on my completed Basic Bensen, prop and all.

[JRB549]

Great fine job just show you, you can do it if you want to

[Ron Iaconis]

Here is more of my pop after I glued it,,,I posted my stuff on another thread,,,regarding " balancing Props" But then Irealised that I was on the wrong thread,,,,sorry!!!!
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9259
So,,,,here is the post where I put my pictures,,,sorry!
Here is After I used a Band Saw,,,,,and Before I cut my pieces off,,,,,I have them in reverse order but you can figure it out,,,,,My next step will be to cut the twist from 9 degrees to over 50 degrees in angles to achieve my 52X26 pitched prop.
I as well show the prop blank being clamped and glued and as well the " hopefully" my finished product. I did it once but lets see if I can do it again,,,,but the new prop will be 52X26 instead od the red one that is 50X28......let's hope I can do it from scratch,,,,this time!

[Ron Iaconis]

Here is more of my pop after I glued it,,,I posted my stuff on another thread,,,regarding " balancing Props" But then Irealised that I was on the wrong thread,,,,sorry!!!!
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9259
So,,,,here is the post where I put my pictures,,,sorry!
Here is After I used a Band Saw,,,,,and Before I cut my pieces off,,,,,I have them in reverse order but you can figure it out,,,,,My next step will be to cut the twist from 9 degrees to over 50 degrees in angles to achieve my 52X26 pitched prop.
I as well show the prop blank being clamped and glued and as well the " hopefully" my finished product. I did it once but lets see if I can do it again,,,,but the new prop will be 52X26 instead od the red one that is 50X28......let's hope I can do it from scratch,,,,this time!
I finally got all my stuff organised on one page,,,,,Finally!!!!!!
To see please check the previous post up above,,,,,

[Ron Iaconis]

I have just used my neighbor's band saw to cut off some of my prop blank,,,,and soon I will be cross cutting and wood chiseling it,,,,,then I will have more pics,,,of the progress,,,,,I am enjoying the learning process.

[Fl90]

Hi Ron. Just remember, my hub has the same bolt pattern. Let me know when you're taking orders!

Looking forward to more posts, Phil.

[MikeBoyette]

Ron,
Back when dad was making his own prop he was doing it the same way you are chiseling and such. I was about ten years old at the time and with a child's eye I saw an easier way to take the bulk of the wood off faster. I suggested he use his body grinder with a very course disk on it. He thought it was a great idea and built about 5 or 6 props for his and others gyros. He even built one that looked like a bow tie for Tarply's Buick powered machine. He also built one for a mac powered Bensen that he,Chuck and Davie Seace used to all fly in the late eighties. He used to build them out of birch and cover each end in fiber glass.

[Ron Iaconis]

Phil,
I am taking my time,,,,and enjoying it,,,,as well if I go too fast I'm fearfull of starting to carve it from the wrong direction( Left Hand vs Right Hand) And once I do ,,,it's a throw away,,,,geeezzzssss.
So,,,,What I am learning and in the trip or the adventure,,,,is very enjoyable,,,,I figure taking my time it will be fly- worthy in a couple months for sure,,,,,,,I am using a readily available lumber stock of ash, affordable,,,available,,,,ans close by. The Gorilla Glue seems to be a good choice,,,,from Lowes Home Depot and needing only 4 oz,,,,,,that;s a $6.00 cost,,,,,not too bad,,,,,
Phil,,,,,,I might make you one ,,,,let me get through this one,,,( it's a 52X26 ) and I'll let you know,,,,and as well show the progress on the forum.

[Ron Iaconis]

Ron,
Back when dad was making his own prop he was doing it the same way you are chiseling and such. I was about ten years old at the time and with a child's eye I saw an easier way to take the bulk of the wood off faster. I suggested he use his body grinder with a very course disk on it. He thought it was a great idea and built about 5 or 6 props for his and others gyros. He even built one that looked like a bow tie for Tarply's Buick powered machine. He also built one for a mac powered Bensen that he,Chuck and Davie Seace used to all fly in the late eighties. He used to build them out of birch and cover each end in fiber glass.


Mike,
Yes ,,,,well I used a Shop Smith disk sander, 20,000 rpm/osc rotary palm sander, and hack saw / chisel,and hand work,,,,all,work ok,,,,,I considered a body grinder,or the newer high RPM hand held smaller grinder,,,I may buy one of them,,,,,But taking my time it aint all that bad,,,,,I do not intend to do any mass replications,,,,if I were to start that,,,I would make a replicator,,,,,but then it wouldn't be fun anymore,,,,just a job,,,,,and heck I am not looking for a job,,,,,,

[Ron Iaconis]

Here is some pics of my wood chisseling of my next prop

[Ron Iaconis]

Here is the second prop that I finished,,,,,The last one( actually the second) was a botch up,,,,,so,,,I learned from it and went out and purchased some red oak( all the good ash was gone) and I am about to start on another prop,,,,,but this time I will use 7 planks,,,,,three of walnut( 1/2 inch thick by 6 inch wide) and 4 of white oak ( 1/2 inch thick by 6 inch wide) and then plane 1/8 inch off both sides to get my 3 & 1/4 inch thickness.
Please note: The first pic I later chiseled more into the root than I have marked,,,,and The two bottom pics are my botched up job,,,,,the root ends have too much wood removed from it and I had to start all over again,,,,,but I am getting better as each prop is begun.
The new prop will have white oak on the outside ends,,,,and walnut every other plank,,,,so it will look nice( white/brown/white/brown/white/brown/white) cool,,,,can't wait to begin the new one!
UpDate: Here are pics of the new Red Oak prop mounted static,,,and running,,,,it seems like it might be a performer,,,,,I will check the static thrust soon.
The stats are it's a 52X26 and it's 6 inches at the root,,,,and 4 inches at the tip.
Here is an updated pic of the prop painted yellow and black.

[Paul_in_Ohio]

Hi Ron,
Speaking of FINISH, what did you use on this? I like the clear finish look for the Oak, and any wood prop for that matter. Are you going to color the tips to be able to see them better?

[Ron Iaconis]

I have some " Bumble Bee Yellow and Black,,,,I want to paint the tips that color,,,,but from what I understand ,,,that a prop with a tip speed of near 3800 RPM is not distinguishable!,,,,so I hate to ruin the nice clear finish( Poly urathane Spar Varnish Outdoor type) So I may leave it alone,,,,and maybe just put a Resin Hardener on the leading edge to keep the wood from being erroded by the dirt/air and other stuff that is sandblasting it!

[Ron Iaconis]

Yes,,,I painted the tips of the new prop bumble bee yellow and black,,,,so we will see if it's noticable when running,,,,,it's raining out so I have to wait till weather clears up

[StanFoster]

Ron: That is some nice work. I can appreciate the steps you had to go through to make the props pitch gradually change as it goes from the root to the tip. Nice job.

Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Looks very smooth. Very professional. My Uncle likes to make props. Why I don't know. He has been building a Gyro for twenty years and still isn't there yet. He comes around to look at my progress. That reminds me I need to call him, haven't heard from him this month.

[Ron Iaconis]

Thanks Stan,,, and Thom,,,,,,and about the WHY does your Dad like to build props? Man it's very rewarding,,,like when I finished my last one( the red oak one) and when I tested it static,,,the cht was below 400 deg,,,,and then when I flew it ,,,it still remained below 400 deg,,,about 390,,,,,and the performance was very satisfactory,,,,,climbed great,,,,,cruised great and my engine stayed at 390 t0 405 during a 15 minute flight,,,,,of climbs and criuses,,,, After gluing and clamping( I let it stay in the clamps for a week) and then it took me about a week to complete the prop,,,,so, considering about $500.00 for a professional job,,,,and my cost of about $65.00 I like the trade off! And that my friend is a big plus of why it's so enjoyable to build and fly your own prop!
I just added a pic of the prop while running,,,,I am not satisfied with the way the paint scheme stands out,,,,I may look for a better color combination,,,,any suggestions?
I answered my own question,,,,I decided to make a Bumble Bee looking effect,,,,as soon as I can let the paint dry ,,,I'll see how it looks running.

[Charles]

Hello Ron
Nice pictures and great work. I had the occasion to touch
it in Mentone. I just love your Bensen Ron. This is what I call the honest man's machine.

Do you carve anything else like female bodies of fantastic modern forms. They really sell fast especially when the price is high, you know connaissors...

Charles Gagne
Quebec city Qc
Cda

[Ron Iaconis]

Hi Charles,,,,,yes I remember well our wonderful conversations,,,,and your pics of your machine,,,,,,,,Hope Canada is doing well,,,,and look forward to seeing you again in Mentone.....
Thanks for the compliments on everything
Avoir!
Giro Une

[Ron Iaconis]

Thanks Stan,,, and Thom,,,,,,and about the WHY does your Dad like to build props? Man it's very rewarding,,,like when I finished my last one( the red oak one) and when I tested it static,,,the cht was below 400 deg,,,,and then when I flew it ,,,it still remained below 400 deg,,,about 390,,,,,and the performance was very satisfactory,,,,,climbed great,,,,,cruised great and my engine stayed at 390 t0 405 during a 15 minute flight,,,,,of climbs and criuses,,,, After gluing and clamping( I let it stay in the clamps for a week) and then it took me about a week to complete the prop,,,,so, considering about $500.00 for a professional job,,,,and my cost of about $65.00 I like the trade off! And that my friend is a big plus of why it's so enjoyable to build and fly your own prop!
I just added a pic of the prop while running,,,,I am not satisfied with the way the paint scheme stands out,,,,I may look for a better color combination,,,,any suggestions?
I answered my own question,,,,I decided to make a Bumble Bee looking effect,,,,as soon as I can let the paint dry ,,,I'll see how it looks running.

I just had to update my thread because I want all to see my Bumble Bee paint job on the prop,,,,Maybe this will make it more visible,,,,,but as soon as it dries and the rain stops I will take a pic and video of it running.

[Ron Iaconis]

Thanks Stan,,, and Thom,,,,,,and about the WHY does your Dad like to build props? Man it's very rewarding,,,like when I finished my last one( the red oak one) and when I tested it static,,,the cht was below 400 deg,,,,and then when I flew it ,,,it still remained below 400 deg,,,about 390,,,,,and the performance was very satisfactory,,,,,climbed great,,,,,cruised great and my engine stayed at 390 t0 405 during a 15 minute flight,,,,,of climbs and criuses,,,, After gluing and clamping( I let it stay in the clamps for a week) and then it took me about a week to complete the prop,,,,so, considering about $500.00 for a professional job,,,,and my cost of about $65.00 I like the trade off! And that my friend is a big plus of why it's so enjoyable to build and fly your own prop!
I just added a pic of the prop while running,,,,I am not satisfied with the way the paint scheme stands out,,,,I may look for a better color combination,,,,any suggestions?
I answered my own question,,,,I decided to make a Bumble Bee looking effect,,,,as soon as I can let the paint dry ,,,I'll see how it looks running.
Here is how my prop looks in the dynamic view,,,,
I think that it shows up pretty good in the Bumble Bee paint scheme.
I just purchased some White Oak Planks,,,,,I decided to stay with one type of wood,,,,the oaks are rated at 6,000 pounds of strength,,,,,and the walnut is only at 3,400 pounds,,,,so forget about the white/brown effect,,,I'm going with the 6,000 pounds instead!!!!!!!!
Can't waith to get startyed on another prop again,,,,it's fun!

[Ron Iaconis]

Here are the " before and after" of my re-carving of my prop.
Before it would only turn @ 3,000 RPM,,,,,Now it turns at 3,600.
So I am getting closer to my goal. These are static numbers,,,I will see how all goes in the air as soon as I can.

[enewbold]

Hi,
First I use two books on propeller making. One is a simple book, I like it best, and the other is very wordy( the old man's toungue waggs as much as an old dog's tail...The books: Can you provide names, authors, any suggested sources, etc.?

Thanks very much,
=Ed=

[Ron Iaconis]

The books: Can you provide names, authors, any suggested sources, etc.?

Thanks very much,
=Ed=

I have placed the Front cover to his book,,,and his address,,,hope it is still a good reference.
The " wordy book" as I like to call it,,,is sort of crudly laid out But it Is a GOOD Book,,,,but I lean towards this here Eric Clutton book,,,,others on this forum have put a good web site to obtain the longer version and the more words version on Propeller Building ,,,I am recommending that you use the old method of,,,,hunting and searching on this Forum to find it,,,,go to the " SEARCH" topic and enter "Propeller Book " is my recommendations,,,,sorry but that is how I always do it so,,,,why not tell you to do it!
I just couldn't leave you " Hangin"
So,,,here is the other book,,,,just click on the link!
http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/WoodenProps.htm

[BUD ONEAL]

Ron
You did a good job. Looks great