My Dominator Build

[ultracruiser41]

Just a few shots of my build:

[ultracruiser41]

Another Shot:

[animal]

Looking good Barry.

[scottessex]

Cool, Have you decided on that engine yet?

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Hello Barry.

Looking good. Keep it up.

Is that the PPO lever on the seat?

Good luck.
Rehan

[Vance]

Nice job Barry.

Your attention to detail is particularly nice.

Nothing looks rushed or unfinished.

Nice use of color.

I love the way you have things laid out in your work area, all square and even.

Thanks for the inspiration, Vance

[ultracruiser41]

Scotty,

I think I'm going with the 582. (if I bring home a Hirth, Ron will stp talking to me!) (wait!.......I might go with the Hirth!!!)

Vance,

Thanks for the compliment but my hangar only looks that way at the start of a project and at the end! (time to work...but little time to clean it all up each day!)


BarryK

[Screw]

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Hey Barry! Looks Very nice and clean. As Vance says, it's a very nice use of colors. I like it too. I'm so excited for you......Well, you know.

Like Scott I'm wondering what engine/prop combo your gonna go with. We all know that a Rotax 582 with a Warp Drive or Powerfin works very very well. But, I could never follow the crowd. I always have to do something differant.

Hirth does offer a unique selection in various HP/wieght combos as well as free air cooled,fan cooled, or liquid cooled.

I'd be curious about the Hirth 3503 2 cylinder liquid cooled 70hp.

http://www.recpower.com/3503.htm

As far as props....I kinda like that Ivo prop you have, but since you already have one of those, I try something differant in this department as well, like a Kiev or that Arplast prop.

http://www.kievprop.com.ua/

http://www.avnet.co.uk/lts/pages/arplast.htm

Following the crowd has the advantage of knowing that things will work out and you will be very happy. However experimenting can leave you scratching your head and Ron telling you "I told you so," or not hearing Ron because he can't catch you!:D

God I love Experimental aircraft!

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with a Ivo, Kiev, Arplast prop.

[ultracruiser41]

Hey!..."She's got legs"!

[scottessex]

Cool Dude! Looks good, you sure can get alot done with out Ron being in town!:D

[RICK MARTIN]

I'm jealous Barry! Lookin' good man.

[ultracruiser41]

Thanks guys,

Hey Rick, didn't you take some pictures at SX days??


BarryK

[GyroRon]

I got some Dominator parts in my truck for Mister Barry .... Looking good Ultracruiser

[Screw]

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What's the prop diameter limits on a single place Dom? 60inch?

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[MikeBoyette]

John,
Yes it is 60 in.
Barry,
It's lookin good. Just put a 582 on back and you'll be set. Don't go with anything else.

[bones]

Why dont they get strecthed abit to take a 68" prop? it would make the world of difference, IMHO. its not hard i just done it to my old Air Command..

[Timchick]

Why dont they get strecthed abit to take a 68" prop? it would make the world of difference, IMHO. its not hard i just done it to my old Air Command..

Yeah, can't you supersize it and get a larger order of fries too? Looking good.

[GyroRon]

It is too late to supersize it now.

Going to 68 inch prop requires many things including taller landing gear front and back..... Taller mast.... Taller engine mount.... Taller tail....

Look at the key words in that and you see why we give up some thrust and use a 60 inch prop. The machine is already very tall as is, going to the 68 inch prop and the gyro would be very VERY VERY tall! :) Taller than most people would want a single place gyro to be.

But saying all that, if I had my choice while building a Dominator tomorrow, I would built it as a supersize Dominator with the 68 inch or larger prop.

[Brent_Brown]

I don't see why you would have to make longer gear just to move the motor up 4". longer mast, push tubes and tail I can see.

[GyroRon]

Brent, when you move the motor mount up, the landing gear goes up with it.... The landing gear is attached to the motor mount and then the shock is attached to the mast. So move up the engine mount and the landing gear goes up as well. Like I said it is a big project to increase the size of the prop once the machine is already built.

It is easy to go with a bigger prop when you first start the build. You simply buy all the parts that are bigger such as tail and mast and mount and gear.... that are made for Ernies TWO place machines and subsitute them for the smaller single place parts.

My only question is has there ever been a good comparison to prove how much more thrust a 8 inch larger prop will produce. On paper it looks good, but what about in the real world?

[Brent_Brown]

I forgot the shocks mount to the motor mount. OK I would flip the gear box and not change the gear just all the other stuff. If it had to be done. I think your right it is to much work if you have a flying gyro.

[Screw]

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What about a 63.5 inch prop? If it will fit on a standard Single place Dom, you could get a 618 with 75hp and install the new Kiev 5 blade prop. 63.5 inches is the smallest blade they make in any configuation.

I figure that with a limited prop diameter, you could add blades to make up the differance.

Although it would look mean as hell, I don't know how it would perform. BTW, the 5 blade kiev is $1500. Ouch! But alot less expensive than an Arplast.

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[Screw]

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On the "For Real" side Barry.....

I hope you decide to with the new Blue Head 582 and a 60 inch Ivo or Warp. These are proven combinations that I know you'll be happy with. Anything else will be an experiment that may or may not perform any better.

With the Ivo and the Warp, you'll have plenty of durability for rough fields and airports.

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[MikeBoyette]

Ron,
I think Chuck fiqured it out once to be 1% per inch. A 72 in. prop will produce 12% more thrust than a 60 in prop. Dad has made a few Dominators with a 68in prop and they were awsome. When he decided to have jigs built he did not want to build three sets so he got rid of the 68 in airframe. I am not sure but you might be able to just use the chrome moly parts from a two place and raise the mast to accomidate it. You would also have to use a two place tail. That being said you'd have to check with him to see if he would sell you these parts for a single place. I can tell you this a single place Dominator with a 618 with a 68 in prop is an awsome beast. I just happen to know someone that has the only one left. You may know him from the forum. His name is Russ King. His was that last one dad built.

[gyrofly]

What are the problems or downsides of a Hirth engine?

[Screw]

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Ron,
I think Chuck fiqured it out once to be 1% per inch. A 72 in. prop will produce 12% more thrust than a 60 in prop. Dad has made a few Dominators with a 68in prop and they were awsome. When he decided to have jigs built he did not want to build three sets so he got rid of the 68 in airframe. I am not sure but you might be able to just use the chrome moly parts from a two place and raise the mast to accomidate it. You would also have to use a two place tail. That being said you'd have to check with him to see if he would sell you these parts for a single place. I can tell you this a single place Dominator with a 618 with a 68 in prop is an awsome beast. I just happen to know someone that has the only one left. You may know him from the forum. His name is Russ King. His was that last one dad built.

Let me get this str8! Ernie used to build a single place Dom with the larger tall tail specifically designed to run larger props? Or shall I say, your dad used to build a stubby (one seat) version of his current 2 place machine? Then for kicks, throw a 618 on it with a 68 inch prop?

That sounds like it would be an awsome Beast!

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[MikeBoyette]

John,
It was he could could consistanly get off with no wind in less than 50 ft. It would climb like 1500 ft a minute. It was awsome. It was on the cover of Rotorcraft somewhere around 1996 or 1997. He built it for himself then a couple of his friends/customers wanted one. I think he may have built two or three total. Then someone came along and offered him so much money for it he could not turn it down and he sold it. The guy later crashed it and never rebuilt it.

[Rotornut]

Barry, Nice Job. Keep the pics coming. MJ :)

[scottessex]

What are the problems or downsides of a Hirth engine?

None.... 145 happy flying hours on a 2706.

[GyroRon]

Might Jinx myself but my Blue Head 582 Rotax has 115 happy flying hours in it. So far there has been...

1. No oil leaks on engine or gearbox

2. No jetting issues

3. No overheating issues

4. No ignition issues

5. No vibration issues - such as parts failing or cracking apart

6. No engine outs, it has never skipped a beat not even once

7. Never has taken more than a few pulls to get started

8. Has used between 3-4 gallons per hour of 87 octane fuel with cheap oil

9. has not required any maintance on it at all short of changing the spark plugs which I have changed 3 times so far.

10. It has not let me down.


So..... I ask any and all Hirth Owners to jump in here and give me a list that tops that! ;)

[Rotornut]

Ron, Better talk with Davie Seach who Runs the Heck out of His Hirth,

MJ :)

[GyroRon]

MJ I don't need to talk to David, I have seen him work on that engine ALOT to keep it running and have seen some of the problems he has had with it.

Heck I don't know a single F-30 Hirth owner that hasn't had MAJOR problems of one type or another.

[scottessex]

Rotax builds a fine product without a doubt.

[GyroRon]

Rotax builds a fine product without a doubt.

Oh come on Scott :D You have had the best luck I have seen anyone have with a hirth so far.

You got to admit that the Pros of running a Hirth don't outweight the Cons. Any of the two stroke engines are a gamble as far as being reliable. But the Hirth has proven to be far less reliable than Rotax. Hirths aren't much if any cheaper either.

The Hirth, if built as well as Rotax, should be a better engine. It simply isn't built as well.

[BUD ONEAL]

I have a 68" warp drive prop on my 100hp dom.with the Neil Hintz reduction drive on it . I had to extend the landing gear,the engine mount,ect. to make it work. The performance is truly great. Ernie said that I had flown with maringal power so long that once I got power it scared the crap from me! Here in north alabama it flys bettre than it did in fla.

[ultracruiser41]

Some more pics:

Installed Morse Cables for rudder operation! (won't have to worry about loose cables and it can operate if one side breaks!

[automan1223]

Mike B. I cannot fathom why your dad would not keep a hot rod in his inventory.

Ron, Scott knows that a little p.m. is worth more than a 4 leaf most of the time. Engines do not run on luck. They run on tlc.

Most of the hirths were not tuned right from the get go, hence all the problems. Once they are tuned and setup I gather they work just as well as a rotax. but air cooled engines do not have the life expectancy of water cooled at least rule of thumb.

Barry, way to go, 2 Q. What will happen to the gyro bee ?
The morse cables will not allow inspections and they break right behind the solid section.
Whats your eta ?

Jonathan

[GyroRon]

I told Barry several times to STOP making changes to a proven design. I am not on board with these cables. They are heavy, expensive and most importantly they have too much drag internally to allow the Dominator tail to self center. By installing these cables, he took a gyro that can be flown feet off, to one that will always need feet on the pedals.

I guess I shouldn't care too much, but I thought I explained it really well as to why you don't see those kinds of cables on most aircrafts to start with, It is like I wasted my time with the suggestions.

Good Luck!

[MikeBoyette]

Ron,
You sure are a great example. Now Barry is following your lead and using SC's on a Dominator. Great next thing ya know Ya'll will be flying the Taliban flag at Goose Creek. Just kidding lol.

[GyroRon]

Mike, there is nothing wrong with Change if it serves a purpose.

My fuel tank change was to serve a pupose, I believe the thrustline on a Dominator set up like mine is set up is LOWER than the Vertical CG. It is not a bad thing, but I wanted to experiment and get my machine closer to true centerline thrust, so the seat/fuel tanks mod I did was to help bring the offset closer. It wasn't needed change, but it was a fun experiment and I like the way the gyro flys better now.

The rudder cables Barry installed though... We discussed this and his reason for wanting the teleflex cables was to eliminate the chances of a accident should one of the normal cables a Dominator has fails. When a normal Dominator rudder cable fails, the spring tension on the " Good " cables rudder pedal pulls the rudder to full stop in that direction resulting in a loss of control. I told Barry that properly installed cables with good swages and good pulleys and springs and so on, just won't fail and not to worry about it, to build per plans. OR I suggested to not use pulleys or springs at all and to follow Dave Dewinters example and use sleeved cables - like you use for the band brakes on a Dominator - and since the cable is enclosed most of the way from the pedals to the rudder no springs on the pedals are needed to keep the cables tight and if one breaks it is no big deal as the rudder will track straight if flown feet off.

I didn't go into the fact that the Dominator tail is a all flying tail and it does not self center on it's own. The anti servo tab is what self centers it and that tab is what will allow the tail to fly "feet off." Teleflex cables just have too much drag internally in them to allow the anti servo tab to do it's job. These cables will effectively ruin the feel of the rudder, which is one of the things that makes a Dominator fly so good.

As for why he is using Sportcopter blades on his Dominator gyro.... Hey why not? He needed HAND startable blades for his gyrobee and bought Sportcopters since they work good for handstarting. Instead of selling them with his Gyrobee, he is going to keep them for the Dominator. They look good, fly good and smooth and the performance is nearly equal to the Dragon Wings.

[ultracruiser41]

I love you papa Ron!

[scottessex]

How about a group hug guys!!!

[ultracruiser41]

Ya know Ronny, you just mentioned in your previous thread that "I should leave a well proven design alone" but.....you're ALWAYS talking about what "you" would do like change the cables, the fixed verticle and movable rudder, changing the Bensen to make it a hot-rod, etc..etc.....common buddy!

(don't you know I am imune to your BS!!!!!!!!!)

Love ya big buddy!!! (wait till you see the motor!!!)


Barry(love ya like a brother) K

[GyroRon]

Barry, how many times did you try to reinvent the wheel on your gyrobee only to find out you did it wrong? I am just advising you to built it stock since your basically going with the standard dominator set up. Not to be a know it all, but honestly..... how many times did you run into a road block with one thing or another on your gyrobee and my advise offered you a good working solution?

Maybe these cables will work fine, but as I told you today on the phone, all the aircraft I have flown that use these cables all have too much friction in the cables to work with a all flying tail in my opinion. Maybe if you increase the size of the anti servo tab to one 2 or 3 times the size of the current one.....

and if you really think about it, the mods to the rudder cables that I did suggest - the Dave Dewinter mod - is pretty much what the morse cables are, except they are lighter, cheaper, and much less internal drag.

You mention that if one cable breaks, you can still use the rudder with the other good cable. I suppose you intend to use your toes under the good pedal to go one way on the rudder and then move your foot around it to the front to press on it to go the other way with the rudder if needed. Well Good Luck with that!!! :)

[ultracruiser41]

I still love ya though!:D

It's a building thing Ronny. We know you don't like to...some of us do! It's that simple. If the rudder set up I have doesn't work...I have no problem changing it.;)

By the way...if I remember correctly...the bee flew the first day hands off and besides some hot EGT temps, only needed a trim spring!:)

(how's that for good workmanshp??);)

Love and Hugs,


Barry (yo brother) K

[dragonflyerthom]

Barry(my mate)K

That is what really makes these beautiful machines so unique. Each is a custom built piece of aviation. Never one alike. Unlike the standardized Aircraft. You go guy. Do what you want to do. Its you thang.


Thom.

[ultracruiser41]

Ok...been busy...so here are a few shots. Engine coming next week...lots more to do!.....sorry...no more photos till she's done! (top secret!):D

[ultracruiser41]

one more shot!

[CLS447]

OH Yeah !!!!!!!!

Mind if I copy a little ?

[scottessex]

Sweet! You're getting pretty good at that engine turning thing, we'll have to compare notes!

[GyroRon]

Copy Cat! ;)

No EIS system?

And I know what kind of engine he bought! ( Ever heard the line.... Theres a Sucker Born every day? ) :) :) :)

[ultracruiser41]

Why an EIS?? Who needs it?

You know what they say..opinions are like ###@**!, everybody has one!


Barry K

[scottessex]

Barry, clean out your in-box!

[ultracruiser41]

Done Scotty!

[Screw]

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I think it looks real good Barry. I can't wait to see the finished product. I'm real curious to see how your super secret powertrain combo works outs.

Ron, Everybody knows your distain for Hirth engines, but really. Your friend has made a decision to try something new. Be supportive....Not the guy who says, "I told you so."

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[MikeBoyette]

John,
Ron is just trying live by the motto "friends don't let friends fly Hirths". I imagine had you been flying one that threw the spark plug out of the cylinder you would not be singing the Hirth's praises either. On top of that then Ron had to help rescue Mike who's Hirth did the same excact thing.

[scottessex]

If you invest in a torque wrench and use it properly the spark plugs will not blow out because of stripped threads.
Rotax uses a 14mm thread and torques to 240lbin. Hirth use a 10mm thread and torques to 108lbin. That is why people rip the threads out, 90 percent of most problems are related to the operator/poor maintenance practices.

[Screw]

Screw-In

The point isn't "Ford vs "Chevy." The point is the deal is done the decision has been made, be supportive of your friends work and efforts. Jesus Christ!

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[ultracruiser41]

For the record...I've had more Rotax's quit on me than Hirths!!!!

Blowing a spark plug is pure bull! Learn how to use a torque wrench and all will be well!

You'll all see!! People told the Wrights they we're nuts too!!

Oh, and Mike...how many Hirths have YOU flown infront of that have quit??

Mine never has!

[GyroRon]

Ask Barry where the Hirth engine is right now.... The one that normally lives on the top of his Aerolite 103! ;)

Hey John, your right. I should be excited for Barry and maybe even have my wife bake him a cake and to put it over the top I could get him some ballons or something! In all seriousness, I am just messing with him, I am sure he will do OK with whatever engine he buys. I myself think the Hirth is not as good of a choice as a Rotax, when your comparing a new engine to a new engine. But.... Barry lives to be different!

Got a chance to see the top secret artwork he is painting on the tail. Looked like a pair of brown goat nuts.... and a brown strip. I am wondering what the finished tail will look like?

[Doug Riley]

I haven't flown in front of a Hirth that quit... right then. Thankfully, it waited until a few flights after the ride I took. Then it quit on the aircraft's owner, dumping the aircraft and him into the woods and wrecking the plane. Too bad, it was a very sweet 2-place Drifter.

Hirths have had serious quality-control issues in the past, basic things like batches of parts that didn't get heat-treated and misligned casting molds. Given this history, I think the burden's on Hirth to show that they've cleaned up their act. If they have, then good.

[MikeBoyette]

Barry,
None. I was just adding to the yanking of your chain that Ron was doing. As for Hirth reliability/quality control just ask anyone other than Scott who has owned one. Hirth is German for MAC.

[gyromike]

Hirth is Geraman for MAC

My Mac ain't puked a spark plug yet!

[GyroRon]

Doug summed it up well. Hirth has a good product on paper, and if only their manufactoring was better they would have a better product than Rotax. But they have been selling engines expressively for aircraft use with shoddy manufactoring tolerances and then when you have a problem they say it was your fault, and then they don't want to pay to fix it.

Fan bearings that are known to seize.... Vibration level too high, causes parts of the engine to crack or unscrew ( Even Scott has had this happen with his 4 leaf clover Hirth! )....... Engine cases not machined to match each other.... The crankshaft problems Doug mentioned.... Spark plugs that are known to be spit out ( yeah sure, proper torque and locktite may keep em in there, but I have yet to have a plug come loose or blow out of any of my rotax engines and I don't even own a torque wrench and never use locktite on my plugs ) .......... Clutch units breaking, especially often if used on a gyro with a prop driven pre rotator..... Fuel injection units not working properly, often needing re calibrations or add on manual mixture controls to keep the engine within EGT limits.....

Like I told Barry, it is a good engine on paper. Maybe these newer water cooled Hirths will be better than the older air cooled units. Barry did say there is better customer service for Hirth now, so maybe if he has a problem they will fix it for him. I just think it is a big gamble going with a Hirth, when Rotax seems to have gotten all the bugs worked out of their engines years ago. I do think Barry will be okay with his, He seems to have good luck on stuff like this ( he has bad luck with used engines and water hoses going to the washing machine in his house! ) I am happy for him as he is nearing the end of his build - he thinks there is still alot to do but If he worked on it steady and had all the parts here he could finish it by this weekend. He wants to have a gyro that will kick my gyros butt, and I think his gyro just might be able to do it. :)

[Timchick]

Hirth is Geraman for MAC.

Good one Mike.

[Screw]

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I need a status report Sir.:phone:

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[CLS447]

John, a report from you would be nice also, sir !!

I started a job,( new department store, electric ) close to my airport.

I may fly my SxS tonight right after work !!

Taxxied without blades for about an hour last night....looks good, blades tonight !

Now I gotta read forum at 4:30 AM !

[ultracruiser41]

John,

Shhhhhhhhh!:wave:
Soon grasshopper....soon!

[ultracruiser41]

Getting closer!:whip:

Ron.....control rods have plenty of clearance!:der:


Barry (:der: ) K

[ultracruiser41]

I'm going to be peeing like a racehorse this weekend!!:whoo:


Barry (bladder boy) K

[ultracruiser41]

Well Gentlemen....here she is...motor break-in went without a hitch!

Hang test was very good...test flights tomorrow with Mr. GyroRon doing the honors!:der:

[ultracruiser41]

Two more for John "Screw" Stevens!

[ultracruiser41]

Oh, almost forgot....Hirth's Rule!

Scotty,

E-mailed a guy Down Under who distributes Hirths....said I can use one of the fuel injector leads to run the tach....make sense to you???

Barry (purrrrrrr) K

[Screw]

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Loooooooooooks Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:peace: I love seeing new machines hatch. I love the "Jimmy Buffet" theme and I feel honored with the skull and wings.

You "Da Man!":whoo:

I look very forward to your test flight report.

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[CLS447]

I like it too !

What diameter Ivo ?

What Hirth is that(model #) ?

[ultracruiser41]

Chris,

60" IVO and 3503 Hirth 70 hp.


BarryK

[scottessex]

Way to go Barry! Pilots of the carribean, LOL!
I like it!
Try the fuel injector lead, I didn't have any luck with mine until I tried the other regulator.

Good luck on the test flight!!!

[GyroRon]

Hey Barry, I dig the mismatched tires! Adds a whole new level of curb appeal to the machine!

See you this afternoon. I am surprised your still awake!

[scottessex]

Barry spent all his money on other stuff Ron, and couldn't spring for new treads!
Put the knobby tire back on the mini-bike in the hangar!:tape:

[ultracruiser41]

Didn't anyone notice that in the pics I posted...there were no control rods???

I figured Ron could just reach up and move the rotorhead!

[ultracruiser41]

Well, She flew today! Ronny took her up and shook her down for about a 1/2 hour an then it was my turn. I took her up for about 20 min. and she flew great!

My first landiing was the best I EVER did and possibly the best a Dominator ever had. The second one tested the "stop and drop" method!

I will post some pics tomorrow! Thanks Ron for all your advice and help as well as the test flight! "you da man!"

The only thing Ron said it needs is a trim spring adjustment. Going to spent Monday going over every nut and bolt and re-tourqing everything!

Barry (back in the saddle again!) K

[dragonflyerthom]

Congrats Barry(flyin again)K

Ya need to watch out for Ron now. He will be wanting to borrow it. He is a very needy guy. Ha


Thom

[Doug Riley]

Those Gyrobee alumni are a pretty sharp bunch. Congratulations, Barry.

[Screw]

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Those Gyrobee alumni are a pretty sharp bunch.

ILMAO!!!!! That's funny Doug. Good One. :lol:

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[Airgasm]

Oh, almost forgot....Hirth's Rule!

Scotty,

E-mailed a guy Down Under who distributes Hirths....said I can use one of the fuel injector leads to run the tach....make sense to you???


Hi Barry, I have to compliment you on your installation. I am a fan of this design and naturally, the engines. There is one critisim though, I think you will have a little problem with the exhaust the way it is mounted. May I suggest you give a little more thought to installing lower and closer to the engine mounts. I think you will find your exhaust mount bracket may be prone to breaking due to the engine compression at low and starting/stopping rpm inertia of the engine on the mounts.

The second thing is, there are two blue wire (dual ignition) that serve as the kill switch and two green wires with a yellow loop to connect the two green wires together. I suggested to you if you were using a Westach type tachometer, connect the signal wire from the tachometer to the green wires. On the back of the Westach gauge, there is also a yellow wire loop, since this is a two stroke engine, you will have to cut the wire to break the loop to get the correct rpm signal.

You are correct, the green wire from the e-box serves as a signal to the ECU for the fuel injected engines however, connecting some tachometers to these green wires is sometimes not advisable since there is the possibility of an interference signal from the tachometer to the ECU. The alternative solution is to connect the tachometer to one of the AC (two yellow wires) output to get a signal.

What ratio are you running with your Ivor propeller?

[CLS447]

Hey Barry ! How about a Bee vs. Dom flight comparison ?

[GyroRon]

Hey Barry ! How about a Bee vs. Dom flight comparison ?

Chris, ever heard the term night and day............:drum:

[ultracruiser41]

Chris,

Dominator vs Gyrobee.... well.....I was very comfortable with the bee. The Dominator is a different bird and after 6 hours so far...I'm getting used to it.

Biggest difference.....much more power and alot more agile! The Dominator wants to fly..plain and simple. Sometimes I felt like I had to talk the bee into going for a ride once in awhile!

Dominator uses virtually no rudder and when you do...that big old wind-vane in the back will turn the nose on a dime! The bee flew needing lots of rudder in slower flight.

The bee was a great learning machine. Very stable and slow. (although, I did get behind the power curve once and it taught me alot about airspeed) !

No problem keeping up airspeed with the Dom!!

Going out Sunday to put more hours on her...just finished installing the pre-rotator so now Ron's arms can have a rest!


Barry (Dominatrix) K

[Doug Riley]

The 'Bee vs. Dom. comparison won't mean much if the 'Bee had 50 hp and the Dom. has 70.

70 hp with a redrive makes a light gyro into a rocket ship.

[ultracruiser41]

Oh but Mr. Doug,

Performance is much more than just good power!

dominator is much more responsive and balanced as compared to the Bee. Don't get me wrong, I still miss the Bee! The Dominator is just more...yes..that's it..it's just more!

Remeber that the Bee is not made to do the things the Dominators can do. I never expected it to so I was never dissapointed in the Bee's performance. I flew her as she was ment to be...slow...fun!

Barry K

[Timchick]

Barry,
Where are some flying photos?

[ultracruiser41]

Mr Tim,

Going up again Thursday..will bring the camera along!


BarryK

[Timchick]

We want to see pictures of the dominator flying not pictures taken from the dominator flying.

[GyroRon]

Barry, I left you a message on your phone.....

[Doug Riley]

Barry, if you're right (and you may be), it would be interesting to figger out why.

Some possible reasons are lower airframe moment of inertia thanks to higher CG, less trim drag thanks to tall tail and LTL, and the possible efficiency gains from straightening out the prop wash with the tall tail. The Dom. may have a little less parasite drag with the seat right in front of the engine instead of below it.

But naturally you have to correct first for the "duhh" stuff: huge HP difference, weight difference and any difference in rotor size or type.

(Ron, I see you are now abusing yourself in your tag line. I suppose the name-callers are getting on in years and you're helping them save their strength. Now that's kind of you.)

[dragonflyerthom]

Yea Ron

You are just beating them to the punch. It doesn't sting as much when we say it to ourselves. Don't let us get to ya guy. You are alright for a white guy.

lol

Thom