Handeling of a Bensen gyro.

[royden]

Is there any one in here that can tell me how the bensen gyro flies? I have been given a set of plans for th b8m and a load of aluminium for the bensen by an old friend of mine. I am a very low time gyro pilot. I would love to have a magni or something but its way out of my league. I would love to build and fly a bensen because its all i can afford at the moment.

[Chris513]

PM GyroMike if he doesn't see this thread. He's got a B8-M that I was able to see Sunday afternoon.

[Passin' Thru]

What engine do you plan to use?

[gyromike]

Royden,

What other types of gyros have you flown?

A lightweight Bensen is agile and quite easy to fly.

Use lightweight wheels and a seat tank to help get the CG in line with the thrustline, and use a horizontal stabilizer. Dragon Wings rotor blades work great on a Bensen.

The more weight you put on it, the more sluggish it will feel.

[Harry_S.]

Royden,

What other types of gyros have you flown?

A lightweight Bensen is agile and quite easy to fly.

Use lightweight wheels and a seat tank to help get the CG in line with the thrustline, and use a horizontal stabilizer. Dragon Wings rotor blades work great on a Bensen.

The more weight you put on it, the more sluggish it will feel.



The B8 Bensen is a good choice and I echo Mike's comments. I built several bare boned Bensen's, they all had the Mac 72 and performed real well, after I solved the Mac Attacks, by using 145 octane.;)


Cheers :)

[Chris513]

Mac Attacks?

[Passin' Thru]

Mac Attacks?

You could only understand if you had flown the Mighty Mac "back then"!:D :D

[Chris513]

Lol. Sounds more like a video game or a McDonalds burger than anything else. :-P

[scottessex]

Yeah well I owned an arrow engine, just a high priced Mac, and attack it did!
Tore up clutches, then pooped out on takeoff, and oh yeah, no parts available!

Unless you use a direct drive VW, subaru, or Mac, building a bensen from plans wouldn't help much, if you decided to use a current style 2 stroke engine, with redrive and taller mast etc, you might be better off to build a falcon, basicaly a drop keel bensen mod, or gyrobee, both built for current powerplants and use square tubing.

[gyromike]

Chris,

A Mac attack refers to McCulloch engines having a tendency to just quit running, or seizing up a cylinder. Usually at the worst possible time.

Using free-roller bearings for the connecting rods instead of caged-bearings eliminates one problem. Replacing the original magneto with Rick Whittridge's CDI conversions (like mine) eliminates another. I've heard that using Eisemann platinum points in the magneto was the way to go, but I don't know if they're still available.

But a Rotax seems to be the least amount of trouble to use and maintain.

[richardkennedy]

Mike said "But a Rotax seems to be the least amount of trouble to use and maintain." Oh yea, say it again brother.

[gyromike]

Richard,

Are you running a 532 on yours?
How has it been treating you?

[BUD ONEAL]

I cut my teeth on a Bensen with a 72 mac and skinny bensen rotor blades. One thing for sure you got to pratice engine out landings. The old bensen blades gave up quick too, one time and you were through no matter how high,6" or 6' it was all over, THANK YOU ERNIE!!!

[Rotornut]

Bud Said / THANK YOU ERNIE!!!

Trip down Memory Lane uh Bud lol MJ :)

We Sure Do Miss Rhonda, Hannah, and You Bud :(

[BUD ONEAL]

We miss all of you guys to M.J. Some times I wish that I had never moved away, Then I look outside and see nothing but trees and cows,I go to town and can travel the 15 miles and never have to worry about traffic tie ups or not being able to get there with out some one on the street corner with a sign saying"will work for food" when you know darned well that they would,nt do a days work for anything,With out worring will I get shot at when I go down Palm Beach blvd. or being stopped by a drug dealer or a prositute.
I love you guys but hate the way my home state has become.

[Harry_S.]

We miss all of you guys to M.J. Some times I wish that I had never moved away, Then I look outside and see nothing but trees and cows,I go to town and can travel the 15 miles and never have to worry about traffic tie ups or not being able to get there with out some one on the street corner with a sign saying"will work for food" when you know darned well that they would,nt do a days work for anything,With out worring will I get shot at when I go down Palm Beach blvd. or being stopped by a drug dealer or a prositute.
I love you guys but hate the way my home state has become.


I'm with you Bud. I understand what you're saying.

I retired here in the Ocala area, to get away from the big city crap in St. Louis. Now...I can't fathom the decadence that has prevailed in the past 22 yrs. It is a shame, a doggone shame.:mad:


.

[dragonflyerthom]

Harry

I was in St Louis in 2002, It was the most amazing situation I have ever been in. The less fortunate still live in the cities but the rest have moved out to the burbs. What once was the burbs is now metro St Louis. Most fortunate people live with in 45 min commute.


Thom

[Harry_S.]

Thom...I can believe that. I was born and raised in North St. Louis and other than my Military time, I was there till I retired here to Florida.

I went back to visit in '86 and was disheartened and disgusted by what I saw. I saw *flats*, is what they were called then, *tenements* is another term...that I grew up in, were gone and bare ground was now in place.

I do not want to see what the Lutheran Church and School that I attended, looks like today...if it is still standing there. This church was of classic German architecture. My U.S. Marine baby brother was KIA in Korea and my mother had a huge bronze plaque made in his honor and installed in the church vestibule. It had all the names of military members of the church...including mine...embossed.

I will repeat...I do not want to see what happened to that church and that plaque, as I know what took over my old neighborhood.

My apology if this post offended anyone.


.

[richardkennedy]

Hey Mike, I'm running a 582 on mine now. Ran across a chance to get a zero time 582 (new, not rebuilt) for $1200 so I was all over that deal. The castings on the bottom of the engine indicate it was mfg in Oct of 1990, so was probably a 91' model. It doesn't have the oil injector, which suits me fine. I have been using a mineral based oil and mixing at 100/1 for over ten years now with no problems so I don't mind mixing the oil. I just turned over 200 hrs on the 582 and it has panned out to be a good one.

Look forward to seeing all you LA guys at the fly-in at Magnolia.

[gyro-3xio]

Unless you use a direct drive VW, subaru, or Mac, building a bensen from plans wouldn't help much, if you decided to use a current style 2 stroke engine, with redrive and taller mast etc, you might be better off to build a falcon, basicaly a drop keel bensen mod, or gyrobee, both built for current powerplants and use square tubing.[/QUOTE]

Hi quick question.

Are you saying that only build a Benson from plans if you plan to use a VW, Subaru, etc? Are not the latter two engines too heavy compared to a Mac?

Just reflecting on some other comments that the Benson is rather sluggish if it gets too heavy.

A VW Benson somewhat appeals to me.
Anyone flying a VW KB2? How do you like it?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Jim.

[Friendly]

King Chocolate flys a vw Bensen. But it has some modifications. It has a pod, a taller Mast. H/S , raised the seat because he used a larger prop with the vw. and 24 foot. Rotorhawk or Rotordyne blades. It really get of the ground well and he is a low time pilot. Maybe he will post a picture if not I can find one.
Richard K has an excellant example of what you can do when you drop the keel and CLT the Bensen although his is a KB 3.

[Friendly]

There is a picture of one in Rons Thread ROC 2006. It is orange and checkered rudder. you can't miss it.

[gyro-3xio]

Interesting thread.
If KB is out of business, where can one get parts from? Such as a new gimbal head, or hub bar? I have these items, just not sure if it is considered airworthy or not. As for the rest of my Benson frame, I'll reassemble it for the sake of doing it, and learn something along the way.
However my inclination is to start with a fresh frame, new axle, etc.

Question:
How much HP does one get from a 1600 or 1700 cc VW?
What does a VW engine weigh in at?
With a VW, is there a pre-rotator that can be used with it?

What is the biggest seat tank available on the market?
Can one opt for using 2 saddle tanks in addition to the seat tank?
I know,... someone is going to wonder what I want that much fuel for.
I would at least like to fly 100 to 150 mile legs.

Is there such a thing as an FIM for Benson types? At least 'rough' performance numbers to get some idea what it could do.

Jim.

[dragonflyerthom]

Jim

You may want to contact tadgyro on this forum. It seems he owns the rights to Ken Brock designs.

Thom

[Friendly]

Jim
If you do all of that you no longer have a KB 2. You have a one of a kind. It will amaze you how well the gyro will fit your needs in its simple form. The more you add to it the more power and more engine is needed, more blade lenght and on and on. I am not trying to discourage you in reaching your dreams.
If you fly the KB2 as is you may find it is everything you want already. Also as you fly you may discover you have a particular flying style that is suited to a different style of gyro all together.
You will hear many posters refer to their "Bensen or KB 2 " days and how they miss "that " gyro. They fly something else now. The price of the KB 2 will at least allow someone on very tight budge to get the necessary training.

[Timchick]

Jim

You may want to contact tadgyro on this forum. It seems he owns the rights to Ken Brock designs.

Thom

Is he going to continue selling KB-2 parts?

[dragonflyerthom]

Tim

I have emailed him but no answer yet. Profile says he is a handyman and builder of gyros at El Mirage

Go figure.

Thom

[Dean_Dolph]

.....The price of the KB 2 will at least allow someone on very tight budge to get the necessary training.The first item on any rotorcraft budget should be training! The rotorcraft gets accounted for after the training money is set aside collecting interest until the project is finished.

[gyro-3xio]

Thanks there Thom and Friendly (sorry, I forgot your first name.)

Dean,

Noted and understood.

On a side note Dean, when you mentioned training,... a training question comes to mind.

This might sound ridiculous.

Is there such a thing as a Benson simulator? You know, a frame that could be bolted to a trailer, or moveable on skids that could be moved into a classroom, or hangar and be used for example to demonstrate PIO? (teach recovery techniques, etc.)
What about teaching PPO on such a device?

Just wonder if that would help out the hobby and improve the statistics.

Jim

[Dean_Dolph]

I'm not aware of any one single simulator that can perform all the operations that you have listed.

There is a static simulator that most will tell you doesn't really feel like a gyro but it may help you learn the proper control responses. That is the one designed by Chris Burgess. I don't know if he uses it anymore but our local chapter thought enough of it that we made what we considered improvements and fancied it up where it looked good. It has since been dismantled and the why is a long story. May be Chris will jump in here and offer his observations on its use.

We also had a static yaw simulator that had a fan mounted in the engine position blowing across the rudder. This let one work the rudder pedals and get the proper response. It also has been dismantled. I wasn't in favor of either dismantling, by the way.

Are these static simulators helpful training devices? I can't truthfully say but it seems that automatic responses could be developed from them.

The other simulator, if we want to call it that, is actually a flying device of sorts and that is the boomtrainer. Used properly, I feel it is a valuable training tool but it does require some place safe to tow it.

Craig Wall, Hondo Texas, has used one to introduce several of us to gyro control. Our chapter prez commented that he felt it helped him learn rotor management quicker than might have been possible otherwise. If you are not familiar with one, it is like a gyroglider but uses a 15 foot or so boom, instead of a rope, that attaches to a trailer hitch on the tow vehicle. So in flight it won't be as free to move around as a glider. But in either case the nose is always going to be pointed at the trailer hitch. And, yes, you can over control a boomtrainer!

[Dean_Dolph]

Jim, I just sent you an email regarding your PRA membership. Please let us know if this solved your problem.