RAF-nO Deal!!! [Archive] - Rotary Wing Forum

whbriley

07-01-2006, 06:22 PM

I did the stab swap today (aircommand w/ winglets) and all I can say is WOW!!! My RAF flew completely different. I have flown 4 RAFs now and this stab made me fall in love all over again with this aircraft. Im so glad that I didnt sell it. I wouldnt sell it now for 30,000.
I just got so frustrated with draggin my butt on take offs, etc. The light weight stab fixed that and also made using the rudder pedals minimal tonight. I flew for 1.5 hr tonight and didnt even really have to use any rudder at all.
I bought this stab from Dofin at250 and I would gladly pay 1000 for another one if I had to. Thats how much a difference this thing made on my machine.

So, long story short, Im in love with my bird and enjoyed the evening flight. I Will get my friend to help me post the pics soon since I cant resize.

Timchick

07-01-2006, 06:31 PM

Bill,
Yes, please post a photo of the stab. If you email me a phot I'll resize it and post it for you.

GyroRon

07-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Bill, I am going to bed here soon, I need to know ASAP if you want to meet up tomorrow to fly together, say hey or whatever. There is a fly-in tomorrow I found out about early this evening that is down near Augusta Georgia that I might fly down to. Want to see what your doing first before I make plans.

Brent_Brown

07-01-2006, 06:56 PM

OK. good to hear this.

dragonflyerthom

07-01-2006, 07:40 PM

Bill

I am just getting my bird togeather. I have a Don Parham type of stab that is set back about 18". I am hoping to ward off any problems before they start. You had me worried for a while. With your butt dragging and everything. My HS is on the heavy side. I have Dihedral in it with winglets. Please post some pics of your new HS

Thom

Aussie_Paul

07-01-2006, 07:59 PM

Timchick

07-01-2006, 08:13 PM

Here's Bill's RAF with the new stab.

Photo 1 - New stab
Photo 2 - No need for rudder input
Photo 3 - Tail shot
Photo 4 - Bill shot

StanFoster

07-02-2006, 02:55 AM

Bill: Way to go. You have the same setup I had and it flew great.:)

Stan

dragonflyerthom

07-02-2006, 06:22 AM

Bill

Is that Ballast in the fromt seat with you????

Harry_S.

07-02-2006, 07:11 AM

Bill...I'm glad you kept your machine. Now the fun begins.:D

Cheers :)

animal

07-02-2006, 07:14 AM

Bill Glad the new Stab,made that much differance for ya and you are keeping it now. I think now that you have the better stab. on there you will enjoy that machine for many hours to come. I would love to take the stick in one with that type Stab. to see just how much more stable it is from Gary Neals machine. How would you say it is now pitch stable and all compared to his?
sounds like you found the Key, That Ole Stan has been praiseing all along. seems the Parham/air command style stab is the way to go for sure.
fly safe and now we will be looking for more pics of your flights.

whbriley

07-02-2006, 08:18 AM

Yeah, I still fly it with the ballast. I have not flown without it. I getting ready to start reducing the load to get use to solo seat flight.

I know my tail shot doesnt compare to yours Stan. I tried several times to get a good shot but didnt get anything worth while.

Im building up my cross country flights slowly and then Im gonna start flying a lot further. I flew about 80 miles last night and it was a very nice flight with not much pilot input. Im glad that someone didnt jump on my low asking price before I swapped out the stab. It really does make a difference for me, but I know some fly it in other configurations and it works fine for them so what ever works for you, do it!!
Fly safe guys and appreciate all the help. I love this forum.

dragonflyerthom

07-02-2006, 08:23 AM

Bill

I too love this forum... Have questions will answer................

Live the DREAM

RAF IS A GREAT BIRD...........

MikeBoyette

07-02-2006, 09:11 AM

Bill,
Did you say you bought the stab from Dofin Frits?

Rehan K.Janjua

07-02-2006, 10:24 AM

Hello Bill.

Nice looking stab. Glad you got it.
Tell us more about it.

Fly safe and have fun.
Rehan

KenSandyEggo

07-02-2006, 05:02 PM

"You were lucky to get a "good" stab....."

Yeah, he didn't buy one from you.

whbriley

07-02-2006, 05:14 PM

yes, I got it for 250 new from Dofin and he has one more. aircommand is asking 900 or something for theirs. Its a aircommand stab with winglets. It has a 3 degree nose down attitude like suggested by the forum pros and works nice.

Kens stab flew nice, but I couldnt get it to take off "normal" or what I thought was normal. As soon as I would add full power at 200, the nose would shoot straight up and it was a chore keeping the machine on the ground. Remember, I only have around 4o gyro hrs so people with more skills could probably do it better so Kens design is probably great for some. like I said before what works for me, might not work for you.... Dofin flys without a stab and so do a few other folks. In my opinion if it works for you, do it. You just have to "fly" the machine more with different configurations. I have to remind myself that all the time when flying my machine especially when landing. You have to always fly the machine to the ground--unlike a lot of other things I fly where it will come on in almost all by itself. Most of you gyroheads know this....

dragonflyerthom

07-02-2006, 05:26 PM

Bill

I am completeing my new RAF. It seems we all have to customize our little Birds. Here I am trying to get mine in the air. There you are having a heck of a time getting the HS right. We truly do, each of us owners, have individual Gyros. Wednesday of this week I am going to Searcy to fly with Ron Menzie. He seems to have the ability to keep me on track with my flying.

Thom

Live the DREAM

whbriley

07-02-2006, 05:35 PM

I can tell you from my experience, make sure Ron flys with you for a while in your machine before you go at it alone. I did it alone and scared the crap out of myself before getting GAry to come down and do some time with me in it. That was my bad and Im lucky I didnt destroy it, or well trained--maybe both....

dragonflyerthom

07-02-2006, 05:56 PM

I understand.

When you left Ron's He made sure you would be OK as far as the training. I think I am at 60 T/O and Landings. I should be at around 75 to 80 by Wednesday afternoon. Ron is the one who is going to Hang test and set mine up. We will be making arrangementsfor a DAR to give me my Cert of Airworthyness So I will keep in touch and you keep posting your pics. By the way I was at Ft Bragg in 69.

Aussie_Paul

07-03-2006, 02:07 AM

"You were lucky to get a "good" stab....."

Yeah, he didn't buy one from you.

That's not nice Ken.:rolleyes: You still holding a grudge?:(

Aussie Paul.:)

StanFoster

07-03-2006, 03:25 AM

Bill: Its good to see you are enjoying that RAF. My Parham stab was set 2 degrees nosedown with the keel....and I flew that thing in all kinds of wind and thermals. Each aircraft has its little subtle inputs that we train our subconscious to automatically apply as needed.

As you gain experience...you will gradually acquire those reflexes and you should enjoy your RAF as much as I did mine. Its a very nice machine when setup right.

I will personally look forward to some views from your RAF cockpit. Its nice to see others flying and sharing with us all here.:)

Stan

KenSandyEggo

07-03-2006, 03:49 AM

Look in the mirror, Pauly. You never miss a chance to slam someone else's work. Actually, was just seeing if you're awake.;)

dragonflyerthom

07-03-2006, 03:57 AM

Ken

It must be nice having that j2 with its ability to jumb T/O. Your HS is hugh. And the rotor head that youcan fly with. You know I think RAF wants us new owner to do their R&D. Sure saves them a lot of money. They have figured out that if the rotorhead is stabilized the PPOs are reduced..

Harry_S.

07-03-2006, 08:34 AM

Kens stab flew nice, but I couldnt get it to take off "normal" or what I thought was normal. As soon as I would add full power at 200, the nose would shoot straight up and it was a chore keeping the machine on the ground. Remember, I only have around 4o gyro hrs so people with more skills could probably do it better so Kens design is probably great for some. like I said before what works for me, might not work for you.....

I have flown with the KJ stab for about 7 yrs. and IMO it is most effective in pitch control. Because it lacks winglets, it does nothing to alleviate the yawing while flying with the doors. I don't fly with doors...in fact, the doors and mounting hardware are still in the shipping box.

I previously posted my *first flight* after the stab installation. It was quite an experience. I found the fault to be a 1& 3/4* nose down incidence. Ken cautioned that installation should be level with the keel but no more than 1* off from level. I personally feel 1* is too much.

My KJ stab is level with the keel and it flies beautifully...no problems.

Bill...did you per chance, check the stab to keel position?

Again...you have many hours of fun flying ahead of you. It's up to you, but I think you can chuck that ballast pretty soon. Just reset your trim.

Cheers :)

Aussie_Paul

07-03-2006, 08:42 AM

Yeah, I still fly it with the ballast. I have not flown without it. I getting ready to start reducing the load to get use to solo seat flight.

A great way to approach it Bill.

Aussie Paul.:)

KenSandyEggo

07-03-2006, 09:08 AM

The J-2 won't really jump, but the Air & Space did. The J-2 will get up on its tip-toes. I heard that someone (no need to mention names) put a Warp Drive prop on a J-2 and was able to do a jump take-off with it. The original J-2s had a wood prop that's pretty inefficient. The last 10 or so, including mine, have a constant-speed prop. I understand that the constant-speed adds about 75 pounds to the ship. So the wood prop is too inefficient and the constant-speed is too heavy. If I ever go to experimental/exhibition, I'll probably put a cockpit controlled IVO prop on it like I had on my last gyro. It's light, yet the pitch is controllable. If I could get Ernie or Jim at Sporstcopter to make me some efficient blades too.......WOW!

Chopper Reid

07-04-2006, 12:20 AM

You stab les RAF guys are slow learners, Stan Foster has been on this forum ages ago telling you all how well his RAF flew with THAT sexy looking tail....apparently, no one believed you Stan !!!!

Still reckon your RAF was the best looking RAF I have ever seen photographed Stan and way way better looking than the Chicken Hawk on steroids :)

StanFoster

07-04-2006, 03:08 AM

Brian: I did like that RAF a lot.....and liked its looks as well. I took awhile getting adjusted to the "jacked" up look of a SparrowHawk. It grew on me and I ordered one because I liked the whole package...looks, comfort...safety. I also knew that many will never like the style...some actually hating it. :eek: Thats what makes the world go round. If we all liked the same thing...that would be a disaster.:D

I am trying to say honestly without any bias at all....but I really am glad I built my SparrowHawk. I also wish I could afford to have kept every gyro I have owned....but I used each one to step up to my next one. Presently I have no more steps to make except the ones in my stairshop.:D

I plan on keeping and flying this SparrowHawk for y-e-a-r-s.....:D I love it.

Stan

dragonflyerthom

07-04-2006, 03:39 AM

Stan

One of the allures of the Gyro is that you are the builder of the machine that could hurt or kill you. I have flown the AAI mod RAF that Ron Menzie has and it is O.K.

I put the new electronic ignitiion on my bird last night. Did a leak test on my fuel system. So far so good.

Will try to start her today.

StanFoster

07-04-2006, 03:49 AM

Thom: I enjoy reading all your posts. Good luck with the new ignition. Its amazing the stuff we get to play with.:D

Stan

dragonflyerthom

07-04-2006, 05:30 AM

Life is good, then we get the bill

Aussie_Paul

07-04-2006, 05:37 AM

Life is good, then we get the bill

No Thom, as an instructor in a stable trainer, lifes great and then we also get the folding stuff!!!!!

Aussie Paul.:)

dragonflyerthom

07-04-2006, 05:46 AM

Paul I knew you were out there lurking.

Anyone owning a Gyro needs lots of the folding stuff

Aussie_Paul

07-04-2006, 05:49 AM

Paul I knew you were out there lurking.

Anyone owning a Gyro needs lots of the folding stuff

Thanks Thom. You probably won't find anyone more helpfull than me in the gyroplane world. My IP has been taken by many to their own ends, that is not why I do it!!!

Aussie Paul.:)

paulp

07-04-2006, 12:25 PM

Howdy Tribe,

A pilot was once asked" How much money does it take to own and maintain an airplane?" The pilot, suprised at the question, responded, "Why all of it, of course!":D

Chuck_Ellsworth

07-04-2006, 02:19 PM

Ken said:

" The J-2 won't really jump, "

Actually it will Ken, if you are light enough and very low on fuel.

I accidentally "jumped" into the air with Sportcopters J2 some years ago solo.

But it is difficult to jump take off in one, by the way I had to put it right back down as I was way behind the power curve for safe flight on take off.

And stuff like this really worries me...

" You know I think RAF wants us new owner to do their R&D. Sure saves them a lot of money. They have figured out that if the rotorhead is stabilized the PPOs are reduced.."

That kind of thinking kills people. The RAF 2000 has killed far to many people who believe the claims made by RAF, the RAF 2000 is pitch dangerous due to its poor design and so far they have only managed to mask the problem.

Chuck E.

WHUBBS

07-04-2006, 05:45 PM

Bill, i am building an raf-2000, and just ordered from air command the H/S with winglets and he said it would come with a two foot extension to the keel. does your setup have the extension.

thanks

wayne

KenSandyEggo

07-04-2006, 06:32 PM

Actually Chuck, my belts start slipping around 400 rrpm, so I haven't gone up to the full 500+ rrpm allowed. I just found how to tighten them. I'll see how she does afterwards, but like you said, she'll probably be way behind the power curve. That's what happened when I got the hydraulicly-actuated prerotator on my RAF/S-H performing well. She almost immediately jumped up in the air and I had no forward speed or yaw control.

LARRYEBOYER

07-05-2006, 10:34 AM

Stan. Glad you are having a good time with the SH. I look forward to seeing you at mentone. Park Hoover and I are driving out with the Boyer Warrior.I am also bringing my Artic Cat 4wd. A lot of us are getting to old to pull those 800 plus pound machines off the flight line. Artic cat will save some backs and hernias.

Friendly

07-05-2006, 10:37 AM

Larry
How is the tail adventure coming along? Are you close to production yet?

StanFoster

07-05-2006, 04:13 PM

Larry: I am looking forward to kicking back and talking with you. I will be flying in Wed morning and leaving Sunday morning.

Stan

LARRYEBOYER

07-07-2006, 08:07 AM

Should be a good time, Stan. Hope the weather is good. I have been diligent on building the Kitfox and my efforts towards the stabalizer have been nix.:(
Idon't know where all the time goes? I have the construction finished and am almost finished with the covering process.i have to finish painting. Then it is engine installation( which should be easy with the 912 Rotax) and some minor wiring and a couple more instriments and a radio.Some where along this path I have to get some Tail dragger experience.:)

StanFoster

07-07-2006, 01:29 PM

Larry: I have a local airport rat that has just built a beautiful KitFox. He has the 912 in it. Tom Milton did the airworthiness. Its right here if you want some pictures.

Stan

GyroRon

07-07-2006, 07:14 PM

Larry, better make sure you get dam good at taildraggers before messing around with that Kitfox. Kitfox is not a easy taildragger.... Lots of them have groundlooped on their owners. Fold the wings on it and bring it down here for a weekend and I will get you taildragging if you can't find anyone up that a way...

CLS447

10-17-2007, 12:55 AM

Larry, How is that Kitfox flying?

Did you get some time in a taildragger?

What color did you paint it ?

Why did you change your forum name ?

Is that little Bensen flying much ?

LARRYEBOYER

10-17-2007, 12:58 PM

Chris. The kitfox is ready for paint. I bought a new winshield and have to install it. I think I will paint, then do the windshield. Lots of little things to do. My building time has been spent helping out Paul repair his RAF mishap. I have set a finish date of march 2008. Winter is a great time to build and usually for me, good progress ensues. The benson is a neglected toy. Runs great, but I was reluctant to commit to air time till I got the ground taxi perfect.

dragonflyerthom

10-17-2007, 01:49 PM