View Full Version : Gyroplane Training in Western WA State
11-12-2003, 05:45 AM
Attention Washington and Oregon gyroplane enthusiests:
If you need or want gyroplane instruction, now's your big chance!
CFI Scott Tinnesand will be back at the Auburn Muni Airport (just south of Seattle) conducting gyroplane training for Randy Coplen of American Autogyro of Seattle, Inc. from Wednesday the 19th through Saturday the 22nd of November.
Randy is offering a special discount on the training fee for PRA members. *The normal fee is $135.00. *PRA members only pay $120.00 per hour. *Everything is included... just show up ready to train and fly.
For more information or to schedule some training time, contact Randy directly at 206-947-4900 or email@example.com
CFI Scott Tinnesand is a very experienced professional rotorcraft pilot (helicopter and gyroplane) and instructor. *He works with Groen Bros. Aviation and flies for an air ambulance company in Phoenix, AZ. *He's thorough, communicates clearly, and places a great emphasis on safety... all while making learning to fly a gyroplane enjoyable.
As many of you know, we've long had a problem finding good quality gyroplane instruction here in western Washington, so you don't miss this opportunity while it's available. *If you need a gyroplane Biennial Flight
Review, this is the time to take care of it!
Please spread the word.
PRA Chapter 30
What's going on with CFI Terry Davison?<br><br>Udi-
11-13-2003, 01:25 AM
Udi,<br><br>CFI Terry Davison recently moved from WA state to somewhere in southern Idaho (I forget exactly where). I cannot contact him because I don't have a new telephone number and he's not checking his old email anymore (mail bounces due to his mail quota being exceeded). Is it just me, or do people tend to disappear in Idaho? :)<br><br>Anyway, before he left he told me that he ultimately wanted to conduct gyro training in his new location, but it would be some time before he was ready to start back up. He mentioned that he was considering converting his stabbed RAF-2000 with an AAI stability augmentation kit. Apparently after being able to compare the handling of his stabbed RAF-2000 to a stability-augmented one (Randy Coplen's), he's a big believer of the later. I couldn't agree with him more.<br><br>So for the time being Terry's out of the picture in the Pacific NW and Randy Coplen is busy working with CFI Scott Tinnesand. Scott is training a local flight instructor for Randy so he (Randy) will have a gyro CFI on staff.<br><br>Regards,
11-13-2003, 04:21 AM
Is there any chance we can talk him into coming back when (a) he can stay longer and (b) we can get a little more notice? I'm trying to book 17-20 hours of dual for sometime this spring toward my Private certificate, and have almost resigned myself to burning two weeks vacation and travelling back east!
11-13-2003, 07:34 AM
Paul,<br><br>I will have a full time CFI (Matt Jones) on staff by that time and Scott Tinnesand will continue to be available. Should not be a problem getting the flight time in. We will have a SparrowHawk in addition to our modified RAF by then. You will need to do the final check ride with Jim Mayfield (only Flight Examiner this side of the Mississippi) in Buckeye Arizonia. You can do that in a one day trip. Call me if I can be of more help. 206-947-4900.<br><br>Randy Coplen
11-13-2003, 11:21 AM
Randy,<br><br>Is there any chance that Jim will be back up for Arlington next year? Also can anyone tell me how many DUAL hours are required with a CFI to get a rotorcraft add-on to my private license?
11-13-2003, 11:22 AM
Oh yeah, one more thing.. Randy, are you flying yet? All work and no play :(
11-13-2003, 12:50 PM
Hi Todd,<br><br>I am taking lessons from Scott. If you are a helicopter CFI you may be able to do as little as 12 to 15 hours duel with maybe 10 hours solo. Fixed wing CFI may take 15 to 20 hour duel and 10 to 12 hours solo. There is a PRA requirement under the exemption that a CFI has to have at least 100 hours gyroplane flight time before he or she can teach. Makes it a bit more challenging to bring a CFI on line. I don't know about Jim going to Arlington but I will ask him tommorrow and post it.<br><br>I have and email address correction. It is firstname.lastname@example.org. for those who might want more info on training or just want to go flying.<br><br>Randy Coplen, AAI Dealer Seattle
Todd,<br><br>If you already have a fixed wing PPL, you will need the following as a minimum (I extracted this info from the FARs):<br><br>Dual time 15 hrs to include:<br>3 hrs XC<br>3 hrs night<br> - 1 XC<br> -10 take off/landings<br>3 hrs prep to check ride within 60 days<br><br>10 hrs solo time to include:<br>3 hrs XC<br> - with at least one flight >75 miles<br>3 take off/landings at a tower airport<br><br>Udi-
11-14-2003, 04:08 AM
Todd,<br>Udi is exactly right on the minimum requirements out of part 61. Randy post shows the same with the implication that one may need more than the minimums. I like to remind folks that the flying is one piece of total equation. The knowledge portion is equally important.<br><br>I've seen pilots with great flying skill that don't know (or remember) some of the basic part 91 regulations. I'm surely not saying that you're one of them, Todd, just bringing up the point that we need to be fully trained on all the part 61 requirements before we go and visit Jim Mayfield for the practical test.<br><br>Paul,<br>You won't have to work too hard on talking me into coming back. I have a great work schedule (7 days on, 7 days off) that allows me to pursue other things. I spent 6 of my last 7 days off giving gyro training and will be back this next week for 5 of my 7 days off to continue. Be sure to talk to Randy Coplen (if you haven't already) and get on the flight schedule!<br><br>Thanks,<br>Scott<br>
11-14-2003, 04:34 AM
Scott,<br><br>If you're that available, it might be more expeditious for me to train in Arizona, where we won't have to wait for July 4th to count on decent weather. I'd pretty much ruled out wanting to train in an RAF, modified or not, just because they're so tight for two people, but maybe the SparrowHawk will be a little better. I'll contact you to discuss.<br><br>Where are you guys finding this 15-hour requirement in part 61? I'm seeing a 20 dual / 10 solo / 40 total training requirement. Could you quote the exact location in the FARs?
11-14-2003, 06:10 AM
Good catch, Paul. I was reading too quickly and typing faster than my brain was thinking. 61.109(d) clearly spells it out.<br><br>It states (in part):<br>"...must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight time in the areas of..."<br><br>Now, to answer Todd's question: "Also can anyone tell me how many DUAL hours are required with a CFI to get a rotorcraft add-on to my private license?" <br><br>The short answer is: 9 hours [see 61.109 (d)(1)(2)(3).] The longer answer is at least 9 hours or until the CFI has determined that the applicant has achieved satisfactory proficiency in the required operations. The reason is that because the "...40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor..." was completed during his training for the Private Airplane license. That leaves the rest of the sentences: "...10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in 61.107(b)(4) of this part, and the training must include at least..."<br>10 hrs solo time (in a gyroplane!) to include: <br>3 hrs XC <br> - with at least one flight >75 miles <br>3 take off/landings at a tower airport.<br><br>So, a person which holds a Private Pilot Airplane license could, technically, get his Private Pilot Gyroplane license in 19 hours. We have found, however, it takes more flight time than above to become a proficient, safe pilot.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Scott<br>
To be completely accurate, there is no minimum total time requirement per-say (i.e. 9 hrs). The minimum requirements for dual training are:<br><br>(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a gyroplane; <br><br>(2) 3 hours of night flight training in a gyroplane that includes -- <br> *(i) One cross-country flight of over 50 nautical miles total distance; and <br> *(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport. <br><br>(3) 3 hours of flight training in preparation for the practical test in a gyroplane, which must have been performed within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test<br><br>Note that (1), (2), and (3) may overlap. *In other words, one hour of night cross-country flight, which occurs within the 60 days of your practical test, knocks off one hour of (1), one hour of (2), and one hour of (3).<br><br>But, as Scott said, the important thing is that you are well prepared for the practical test.<br><br>Udi<br>
11-14-2003, 07:05 AM
I certainly appreciate everyone's input. That clears things up. <br><br>Does anyone else think the 3 hour cross country requirement could be better spent on other skills. It seems it won't be much more than a refresher on pilotage and fuel management. Three hours that would be better spent on emergency procedures etc.. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind cross countries, they're great, just not the most challenging part of flight training.
11-14-2003, 08:30 AM
I remember my 10+ night landings and my 3 hour night cross country as being one of the most enjoyable part of my training. The night cross country was done on an almost-full-moon night so I could pick out reasonable emergency landing fields. I could see my destination airport from 40 miles out. It was very enjoyable. True, it was not all that challenging as far as flying a gyro goes. But it was fun. We even turned off the GPS so as to be using pilotage navigation. But with that visibility, that wasn't very hard.
11-15-2003, 02:55 AM
Udi,<br>You bring up an interesting point with your last post. *While I'm certailnly not trying to prove you wrong, this is one of those points that can be argued either way.<br><br>While I was working on my fixed wing ratings, I went to a school named Sheble's Riviera in Bullhead City. *Everyone HAD to arrive with all the required flight hours and test results, ect...<br><br>I sat there on day one and watched them send away two different guys who didn't have the Aeronautical Experience (flight hours) as far as they were concerned. *These two gentlemen had done exactly what you mentioned. *They logged "overlapping" flight time. *These guys both flew in on an airline, booked a hotel room for 3 nights and were sent home within the first 15 minutes.<br><br>What does all this mean? *No matter how you and I 'interpret' the regulations, the final authority is the FAA employee or DPE that is about to administer your practical test.<br><br>So to sum everything up, the absolute surest way to not get sent home from a practical test is to have the 9 hours.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Scott<br>
11-15-2003, 03:30 AM
Hi Scott:<br><br>There are some realities in acheiving any license, rating or add on.<br><br>A couple of which are you will be expected to demonstrate a willingness to meet defined skills test competency as well as show the required proof of experience.<br><br>Udi mentioned that some of our opinions are "subjective' and therefore carry no significant weight. Well maybe that is right in many cases. However I have been granted the authority to issue initial type ratings on transport category aircraft by several Countries and with that comes the question of whether my decision to pass or fail a candidate would be " subjective or objective ".<br><br>If you canno't demonstrate the proper, attitude, skills and certified record of the time required and you fail....does it matter whether it was a " subjective " or " objective " opinion that I made when deciding how to mark the candidate?<br><br>Just another angle on this discussion.<br><br>Chuck E.<br><br>
12-03-2003, 07:00 AM
A question about Ultralights...
Since they are NOT allowed to fly after dark, how is it possible to perform those required tests. Or am I getting the cart ahead of the horse? I *WANT* the CFI training to fly safely, but do I even need to get "signed off" as an Ultralight "pilot"?
12-03-2003, 03:27 PM
Doug if your going to fly a ultralight gyro as a ultralight pilot then you need Zero training, and zero requirements.
Now saying that... it is pretty dumb not to get some training with a CFI or a ultralight BFI, so you will not kill yourself. But it up to you how much of that training you want not the instructor. In other words, as a ultralight pilot training isn't required so if you go get training you call the shots at how much and what kind of training you recieve.
IMHO it is best to fly with your instructor till he or she see's you fit for solo. If you going to fly ultralights, tell the instrutor in advance so the instructor will concentrate training you to fly the gyro and not how to navigate at night and so on.
12-04-2003, 02:48 AM
Ron what you said is right but I did that and now without that paper work I had to start at 0 hours when I started working for my BFI. So now I would tell anyone to get all UL time in a log book with BFI endorsments so you can carry that training and time over when you want to get your sport pilot rating it will count for 3 or so years.
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