Bob Kopp's Midnight/Mosquito Hawk Gyros

[Mike Jackson]

Does anyone out there have any thoughts/critiques on Bob Kopp's Midnight or Mosquito Hawk designs? Bensen style with Subaru. Direct drive or redux and tall tail. His pricing looks great if his web site is current.

Thanks,

Mike

[Rotornut]

is all I can say. Bob is a fair and honest person. He does not make much of a living off the kits. He has other Jobs. As for the Design I cant really say. All I can speak for is the person. Wish you luck. MJ :)

[Mike Jackson]

Thanks for the input. I spoke with Bob today and he seems like a nice person.

Mike

[GyroRon]

I will say the prices are great, but you get what you pay for. His machines are not built to the same level of fit and finish as pretty much all other kits. They do look airworthy and if you took the time to dress it up it wouldn't be a bad machine.

[Mike Jackson]

Thanks, Ron

Mike

[GyroRon]

I am not bashing his machines, just saying that in my opinion they look " home made " where as most other kits from the other manufactors look " factory " made. His machines look better than a lot of scratch built stuff I see, and for under 10 grand I believe you get a complete ready to fly gyro with Pod and blades and a redrive equipped subaru EA-82. They are NOT Clt though.

[GyroRon]

This one is brand new and is for sale for 10 grand.

[dvs1]

I disagree with the statement that they look home built. I pretty much have decided to build the Midnight Hawk. My dad is converting his Benson Mac to the '81 Mosquito Hawk. Someone close to me was watching Bob fly the Midnight Hawk on a grass runway and noticed that the mast was moving too much for his comfort. My thoughts on the Midnight Hawk are to remove the pod and then cable the mast.

I think Bob has designed and created two beautiful machines and when our two machines are finished I will have the oppurtunity to fly his design myself and talk more intelligently about the machine.

Of course, this is just my two cents worth.

[Mike Jackson]

Again, thanks for the inputs. In my seemingly endless quest for the "right" gyro for me, it's easy to see the abundance of different opinions on all designs. I am anxious to go to Mentone this year (for the 2nd time) and "kick some tires".

I will say that the term "homebuilt" can have connotations in many ways I suppose. Don't forget it was a "homebuilder" who started our movement. I guess we can go all the way back to the the Wright Bros.

When we talk of "factory built" in this industry do we mean more than one or two guys with CNC capability? I was at AAI yesterday, and although there were a few more folks there than some of us individuals in our garages, it looked like a big homebuilders garage/hangar to me. Quality? Yes - but the work place was not a McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) I'm familiar with. I have seen many "homebuilts" which look as good, if not better than "factory" models. Not throwing darts, but in our written word we need to be careful, possibly more specific in our critiques.

As I look for a gyro, my biggest concern is safety, shortly followed by cost, flight evals (safety + fun), then finally aesthetics (eye candy/"finish"). Easy to say but harder to objectively evaluate.

Thanks again,

Mike

[Madewooden]

Money-wise, KOPP's gyros look to be quite the deal. If one were to add up the material requirements that go into making a gyro, especially the heavy-duty cost items (engine, rotor head and blades), then the Midnight Hawk is well within the affordable ballpark. If I can build a 'bee or its equivalent that looks as good as John Landry's Gyrobee (sans his terrific modifications), then I'd be one proud owner/builder.

Tim

[GyroRon]

I never said they are bad machines, I would consider flying one myself. It is just that they are not what you would expect from a manufactor if that makes any sense.

For example the Tall tail on a dominator or Aircommand etc... has a nice thick caculated airfoil. The tall tail on his machines looks like he simply took a sheet of aluminum and wraped it around a piece of 1 inch aluminum tubing with the shape of the airfoil not being very important - and it probably isn't that important in the end....

Also consider that these machines are not Center line thrust and with the EA-82 and redrive there is a lot of power to tame.

I do say that his machines are priced very reasonably and overall they look pretty good. But it not in the same league as a Aircommand or dominator or pretty much any other kit as far as fit and finish goes

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Yeh I know what you mean..... that wrapping of a sheet of aluminum around a tube doesen't work worth a sh.t..

Just look at all those Piper aircraft that wrapped fabric around a tube to make fins, rudders, horizontal stabs and elevators. No wonder they were not successful with their designs.

If I ever need to really get on the cutting edge of aircraft design I will come here for ideas. :D

[Mike Jackson]

Just curious, as a 2 timing Cub owner (and a few other machines), what might have been done economically to make the tube and fabric Piper designs more successful?

Looks to me, by some standard, they were successful enough to train thousands, both pre and post WWII. Must be something positive about the term "Piper Cub" being a household name as well as a generic name for all light airplanes for many years. More than one engineer must have thought the tube and rag methods were both economical and functional within their performance envelopes.

I think there is a lot of "gold plating" out there. They are things of beauty but I really like the old Bensens out there with a plywood rudder - a thing of beauty and simplicity. Should've added the big ply HS though!

Another 2 cents worth.

Mike

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Mike :

To answer your question...........nothing

They are just great the way they are

[gyromike]

Cubs are good things!

Here's me enjoying one:

[RHerron]

Mike,

Love them Cubs. Yours is shinier than mine.

[PTKay]

Here is one from Poland

[mcbirdman]

Mike and Chuck.... I think you stumbled onto something I think might be possible.... It would seem to me that if you force the fabric to go around curves of something like the tubing you mentioned.... It seems like maybe it would work. I envisioned something based on the photo you submitted and bearing with me that it is only a sketch - and I am not any designer.... but I think it might be possible to accomplish. If there are any persons that might be able to step up and make this do-able..... I think you might have a real performer even in bad weather..... I am thinking it could go high and it could go far. Kinda like a real cross country aircraft. I think it is worth considering... what do you think?

jtm

[Mike Jackson]

Yo JTM,

You might be onto something..............although I can't recall though if I haven't seen this somewhere before?

Cheers,

MJ

[mcbirdman]

I don't know - it just seems like this all mean something. Talk about tubes, fabric, your flying cubs, safety first, AND a guy named Ron posting in this thread.....

Seems like it could be your dream machine - the Little thing with wings or something like that (lol)
jtm

[Mike Jackson]

I have considered the LW. It is a beautiful machine. I saw it a couple of years ago at Mentone. I just don't know if I have enough heartbeats left to see one to completion.

Cheers,

MJ

[KenSandyEggo]

Why that's a totally crazy idea.........but it just might work.

[Dean_Dolph]

Mike, if we stop and think about it, none of us, regardless of age, know whether we have enough heart beats left to finish anything. We are at risk of using our last one every time we get out of bed. And someone will point out that we are not risk free even there. Now all of you that suffer from paranoia think about this the next time you drive to the store for milk. Are you going to make it back? Maybeeeee not!

But as long as we are here we might as well be doing something and building, or planning to build, an aircraft seems to be as good an idea as anything else.

We have a guy that is close to 73 y.o. in our chapter that has been working on a machine for several years and has taken some instruction. Will he ever finish and actually fly? Who knows, who cares and does it make any difference as long he is enjoying himself. So I say test the water and if it feels comfortable, jump in.

[mcbirdman]

I know people wish it were kitted. And I know it takes a big commitment. When the discussion turned to Cubs and with you liking cubbys and all it would just seem right for you. I just saw the photo and I also have always liked cubs so I couldn't resist after I saw the photo attatchment. That was a great photo by the way.... jtm

Btw my grandma lost her husband when my mom was 6. My mom and then us was told she was not going to be around much longer and she was going to be with her husband. Let's see .... many years later and at the age of 91 she was eventually correct. Good thing she wasn't correct for many years - she was very important in our life. So..... maybe you'll be just as right as my grandma. Whatcha going to do while you are waiting?....lol

take care - jtm

[Dean_Dolph]

Ken, and anyone else that is interested, it took me a while to figure out that you were probably replying to Mr. Mcbirdman.

If you haven't done so already I would suggest that you investigate the 'Display Mode' in the menu at the top of the thread. It gives three choices 'Linear', Hybrid, and Threaded. When in the 'Linear' or 'Hybrid' display mode all of the messages in the thread will be displayed in a window above the thread.

The 'Linear' and 'Hybrid' display modes work similar to the way that one of Norm's old conferences worked in that if used properly (and it has taken me a while to figure this out) a reply will be posted indented under the message you are replying too.

In order to get the message to indent under the message you are replying too, you need to select that single message in the window when in the 'Hybrid' or 'Threaded' display mode. There may be a way to do it in 'Linear' display mode but I haven't tried to look for it.

Once that single message is displayed then do a reply as normal and you reply will be displayed indented under that message.

This works when using the reply button at the bottom of the message but I'm not sure about using 'Quick Reply' I'm going to use you as a test and try it. I'm not sure what happens if you just go to 'New Posts' to read messages since I rarely do that.

[Dean_Dolph]

Okay, Ken, this is my test using the 'Quick Reply'. We'll see if it indents or jumps back to the main thread line.

[Dean_Dolph]

Well, the test reply to you using 'Quick Reply' did jump back to the main thread line as I suspected it would.

I went to 'New Posts' and the threads work just like the ones selected from the main thread display screen. This means that the 'Hybrid' (which I use) and the 'Threaded' display modes will work as I discribed.

I don't know if this little exercise got in the way or helped someone but it did clarify/verify for me how I thought the replies worked.

Ken, thanks for participating!